19 jobs on one character

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Originally Posted by Remolia

If some one plays not the way u like, it does not mean the player is griefer. What next? You gonna bully tanks who does not know about A B C rule when finding their add in Alliance? Players, who does not use melds and food buffs? Healers who does not know, that rescue exists? Healers who does not minmax "better stats fro dps" with materia? Lalafels, who have small signature, and its harder to catch them with mouse cursor? Players, who does not keep "Transcendent" buff after being resurrected, and got deleted by next AOE in a split second? Healers, who does not dps at all? DPS, who randomly attacks adds when u ask not to do it. Players, who jump down in Labyrinth of the Ancients, when they should use stairs instead? Music bots and naked people in Lumsa? Players who does not create an adventurer card?

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You are missing most of your buttons. You literally can't contribute the proper damage you should be contributing. You can't contribute the proper healing tools you should have. You are griefing every party you encounter without a Job stone. Full stop. Cease your whataboutism, troll

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Originally Posted by FireMage

You are missing most of your buttons. You literally can't contribute the proper damage you should be contributing. You can't contribute the proper healing tools you should have. You are griefing every party you encounter without a Job stone. Full stop. Cease your whataboutism, troll

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I am Hyir, and wotever then.

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Originally Posted by Remolia

I am Hyir, and wotever then.

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No, you're a burden. A troll. A waste of space. A person that should unsub and improve the playerbase by doing so

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Originally Posted by Remolia

I am Hyir, and wotever then.

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Pay no attention to that person. They're a proper troll. I think if you can make conjurer work, then that's cool. :)

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Pay no attention to that person. They're a proper troll. I think if you can make conjurer work, then that's cool. :)

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It's absolutely not cool. Imagine defending someone griefing every party they're in by not having a Job stone. Gross

Well that's a first. People agreeing that not having a job stone is cool just because FireMage took the opposite point. Hilarious.

And I say this as an avid "archery" enthusiast ;)

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Well that's a first. People agreeing that not having a job stone is cool just because FireMage took the opposite point. Hilarious.

And I say this as an avid "archery" enthusiast ;)

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Nah. I thought it was cool without that. I just chimed in because I didn't want them to get stuck in an argument.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Pay no attention to that person. They're a proper troll. I think if you can make conjurer work, then that's cool. :)

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By playing conjurer, you lack in damage (Stone 2 190 potency > Glare 3 310 potency and Aero 2 550 > Dia 660), you also lose out every time you use a GCD heal, which is all conjurer has, whereas WHM has ways to mitigate that loss with the lilly system, conjurer also has no AoE at all, so you can't even mitigate with Holy stuns.

However, should I rock up to a dungeon as a Gladiator or Marauder? Is that fine? Lets take away a fair chunk of damage and survivability and make the healer's life harder, I'm sure they won't mind, or, how about a DPS class. Completely neuter your damage and prevent mass pulls because the tank/healer run out of resources. Yes, no problems there right? Or, maybe even the rare time a dungeon has an enrage, don't worry about it, the other DPS will carry my weight through.

It is just a selfish mindset to have and if it is not ok on a tank or DPS, it isn't ok to do on healer either. The exception is, of course, a premade party where everyone knows and agrees to it, but that should be obvious.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

As a healer main, considering the state of healing, at the moment, I don't see any problem with Remolia's approach. It's not as if they won't have all they need to take care of the party for 90% of content.

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the only offensive actions you get as CNJ are Stone 2 and Aero 2

they don't have Holy for pulls, Stone 2 does 190 potency which is 120 potency less than Glare 3 (100 less than Glare), Aero 2 deals 550 potency which is 110 potency less than Dia
they also don't have Afflatus spells, so they're guaranteed to lose a GCD of damage for every heal (not "GCD heal" because CNJ has no oGCDs apart from role actions)
they also don't have Presence of Mind or Assize, so they're missing a 20% damage buff every 2mins and 400 potency every 45 seconds

that's the problem

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

By playing conjurer, you lack in damage (Stone 2 190 potency > Glare 3 310 potency and Aero 2 550 > Dia 660), you also lose out every time you use a GCD heal, which is all conjurer has, whereas WHM has ways to mitigate that loss with the lilly system, conjurer also has no AoE at all, so you can't even mitigate with Holy stuns.

However, should I rock up to a dungeon as a Gladiator or Marauder? Is that fine? Lets take away a fair chunk of damage and survivability and make the healer's life harder, I'm sure they won't mind, or, how about a DPS class. Completely neuter your damage and prevent mass pulls because the tank/healer run out of resources. Yes, no problems there right? Or, maybe even the rare time a dungeon has an enrage, don't worry about it, the other DPS will carry my weight through.

It is just a selfish mindset to have and if it is not ok on a tank or DPS, it isn't ok to do on healer either. The exception is, of course, a premade party where everyone knows and agrees to it, but that should be obvious.

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I think people are taking this way too seriously and thinking of the worst possible scenarios for this person to show up. There are plenty of duties someone can run in this manner. The fact is we have people out their with full kits that can't make good use of all those skills, so if someone can make this word, good on them.

Of course running Gladiator or Marauder is out of the question.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I think people are taking this way too seriously and thinking of the worst possible scenarios for this person to show up. There are plenty of duties someone can run in this manner. The fact is we have people out their with full kits that can't make good use of all those skills, so if someone can make this word, good on them.

Of course running Gladiator or Marauder is out of the question.

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You can't have it both ways. Either classes are okay past 30 (and you're supporting hard griefing which is gross) or they aren't (and you're on the correct side of the issue)

Not having your jobstone in level 50+ content is actively griefing your team. You don't have good healing abilities to begin with, your damage output is a fraction of what it should be, and most importantly: you're pushing a larger portion of heal work to your co-healer. You can't make it "work"... you're simply sandbagging.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

As a healer main, considering the state of healing, at the moment, I don't see any problem with Remolia's approach. It's not as if they won't have all they need to take care of the party for 90% of content.

On topic, I, too, am disappointed with the limitations on the job system. I was hoping to see more interactivity between jobs learned, but we ended up going in the opposite direction.

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If you genuinely feel that way, go into Dead Ends as CNJ with a group of friends and see how well it goes. Get them all to ditch their job stones if applicable for that matter. If it's okay for someone to run it as CNJ then Marauder, Gladiator, Rogue, Lancer, Pugilist, Archer, Thaumaturge and Arcanist should be just as acceptable.

Or if you're not willing to burden your friends, do it with Duty Support.

I'm in the middle ground on this one. I think CNJ works fine up through Aurum Vale. You can get by without Regen, you'd only be missing Holy in Dzemael Darkhold and Aurum Vale where a typlcal Duty Finder group is going to end up keeping you on your toes for healing so it's hard to get a chance to weave Holy in, most WHM don't seem to remember they have Presence of Mind and there's not enough AoE damage going out to justify using Cure III over Medica. Those are the only 4 WHM skills learned between 30 and 49. All traits pre-50 are tied to CNJ.

But once into level 50 content and beyond, you need those WHM skills unless you're with a group of better than average players and half the player base will always be worse than average.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Pay no attention to that person. They're a proper troll. I think if you can make conjurer work, then that's cool. :)

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Its not so hard.

First, u need to fix mana issues, by focusing on piety stat, there are 3 ways: items, melds and foodbuff. Especially food buff, which does not scale on limits.
Also u can use "super-ether" that restores 18% of mana, since everyone have 10000 mana.

Second, Mouseover is not that bad, if use it right: something like /ac "Cure II" <mo> allows u to lend ur Cure 2 (that has 2! second cast) faster than average healer wakes up and send his insta-heal cast.
Also remember, that Cure 1 has 1 second cast, and u can cast it in very critical situations, and it can be casted almost on move.

Third, watch ur raid members more closely, its pve, there are no suprises: if tank gonna get a tankbuster hit, u can precast Cure 2, if boss cast AOE, u precast Medica 2, if ur raid member in danger - precast Cure 2, or cast Cure 1. If ur raid member lost the way - use rescue (with MO target).

And dont forget that u still have "swiftcast" and "lucid dreaming".

If u do everything right, people usually don't even notice, that u are a conjurer. I tested almost every popular 1-80 duties, there were some problems in 71 (or it was 73? the SHB first one) and 81 (level 83? the EW first one) dungeons, but on level 83+ these problems went away. I have not tested 90 level content yet.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Of course running Gladiator or Marauder is out of the question.

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https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/21183125/

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Originally Posted by Remolia

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/21183125/

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Oh look another garbage griefer

I can see both sides of this argument. As a healer you totally could do high level content without Job Stone because you're really only missing you OGCD heals and defenses. Cure 2/Medica/Medica2/regen can very well carry you through most stuff...HOWEVER...

Other people are WELL within their rights to kick you out of the party and NOT EVEN give you a chance to run. No matter how good you are as a conjurer...a non-braindead WHM will outclass you every step of the way.

You can be a no-jobstone character all you want but only do it with people who are fine with it or friends. If you do with randoms they have every single right to kick you out. You will not have an argument at all if you try to report them for kicking you out.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Oh look another garbage griefer

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https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...acter/9717763/

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Originally Posted by Remolia

For new players maybe, for me, WHM game play in normal duties puts me asleep.
But if not joking.
Using melds (adjust piety for mana), food buff, potions (we have 18% mana potion), and MO (mouseover) macros (I am a PC player) u can build a kinda fun game play around conjurer in normal duties, where u actually have to watch raid HP, use rescue, and actually focusing more on healing, instead of 11111111 glare spam.

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You are one of the problem of terrible class/job system.

A troll that shows up in duty without job stone

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Originally Posted by Remolia

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...acter/9717763/

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Yes, I'm awesome, I'm aware

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Originally Posted by Stasya

You are one of the problem of terrible class/job system.

A troll that shows up in duty without job stone

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Stop it, I am Hyir

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Originally Posted by Remolia

Stop it, I am Hyir

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The fact that you keep trying to conflate people calling you a troll with your in game race basically confirms you're trolling. Just stop posting, you aren't contributing anything of worth or value other than something to be made fun of

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Originally Posted by FireMage

you aren't contributing anything of worth or value other than something to be made fun of

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And you? Do you?

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Originally Posted by Remolia

And you? Do you?

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With my every post on this forum, troll

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Originally Posted by Remolia

Stop it, I am Hyir

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Originally Posted by FireMage

The fact that you keep trying to conflate people calling you a troll with your in game race basically confirms you're trolling. Just stop posting, you aren't contributing anything of worth or value other than something to be made fun of

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Originally Posted by Remolia

And you? Do you?

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Originally Posted by FireMage

With my every post on this forum, troll

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https://i.ibb.co/Ksn74Wt/giphy-1.gif

Blu has ruined me grinding anymore jobs outside of the main story, because leveling BLU is simply one big grind without story support (Slow descent into insanity).

I tend to level one job, per character. I get to play the story again, on a new race, with a different company.

When I was playing the story on my Blu, I was not on BLU....thus frustrated I could not progress on BLU...so simply kept skipping the dialog out of frustration. So, it gives me a chance to calm down, and partake in the experience on a new character and job.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If you genuinely feel that way

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I do genuinely feel the way that I said. If they want to play that way, and they do, and the people they play with have no problem with it, then what's your issue when you're not involved?
Am I playing that way? No.
Do I care if someone plays that way? No, not really.
I'm sorry that my having a different opinion offends you enough to have a small freak out, but I would like it if you would kindly get off my little-warrior-of-darkness-from-below-the-belt (or LWoDfBtB for short) for having it.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

If you look at the competitor WoW, you may be able to see why changing jobs / classes mid dungeon is restricted. Some of the players over there queue as a healer or tank merely to skip the queue time. They then switch to DPS and refuse to do the role they sign up for. It is a rare occurrence, but still something to note since a bad experience like this really sticks.

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Dang, I've been playing since Vanilla, but I've only seen that once, back in Burning Crusade.

I definitely have seen DPS switch to heals, though, when the current heals won't cut it, and I've seen heals switch to dps just because it's such a steamroll anyways that a hybrid (Ret, Enhance, Feral off-heals) is more than enough. ...Have also seen plenty of DPS-as-tank (especially Arms, pre-tank Blood or Frost DKs, pre-Guardian Ferals, or Beast Masters). And I've liked that bit of player-trusting flexibility.

That said, I'm largely indifferent to it in XIV, simply because there's just little need or reason for it, and if there were a community that I would expect to occasionally speed-queue and then swap... it'd probably be XIV's more than any of the several others I've played among. Not by much, but enough that I wouldn't consider the risk negligible. Though, if they at least made it so there has to be at least one tank and one healer at any time among non-premade groups --so the damage just swaps to healer before healer swaps to damage, etc.-- that'd probably be plenty to negate that threat.

Yeah. I wouldn't likely cry myself to sleep if we were to have job changing during a dungeon or not. Even if it's attempting to solo those level 50 - 60 Extremes with the Unrestricted Party setting (Wondrous Tails reason), I can just Abandon Duty if I have the wrong Job setup and re-enter with very little wait.

The switch scenarios I see from your cases are in regular dungeons where ilvl sync is not a thing? Once everyone is around 100 ilvls ahead of the dungeon, the tanks and healers legit become obsolete with everything melting in seconds. Even when the DPS did try to give me a few seconds to establish threat on a fresh tank, they just have to start sneezing again to pull attention back. I don't think the players suggesting to return to Vanilla tank threat knew what they were getting into. It's probably why Blizz eventually fazed out their 5 man Normal / Heroic / Mythic Zero dungeons, but it's a shame to see the solo world content give better rewards than these dungeons.

Blizzard technically does try ilvl sync in Timewalking dungeons and seems to have difficulties with it. Since they still usually let us keep our high level spells. It can also unlock legendary gear effects once more being synced to a lower level, so I am rocking some old orange gear again. This sometimes lead to a situation where the dungeon either gets steamrolled by the orange gear crew or it becomes nearly impossible for fresh gear groups. Pit of Saron or PoS was one dungeon that got memed on for the timewalking >.> Even when all is said and done to clear it, the solo world content still gave better rewards. It truly feels like you either have to aim for Heroic / Mythic Raiding or do those Mythic+ 5 man speed key runs to even get anywhere. Crafting is even placed in the dumpster by making the higher gear Bind on Pickup the moment you craft it.

This pretty much goes into the reasons why veterans get bored to death with Satasha from the level sync temporarily removing spells again. Also explains most of the gear having almost no effects or tier sets. If there are effects, it's something like +4 Vitality with no other gear stats or an exp bonus that can likely activate again from level sync. I think Materia may get ignored for the syncing too which lead to that certain 50 Trial going from hard to a joke to solo >.> The Materia hasn't reached that 100 ilvl threshold yet, but I believe it is still climbing maybe 10 - 20% of the way for some old dungeons.

I also agree that your idea of always keeping at least 1 tank and healer locked into the pre-made group would be wise. If no such thing existed, we might suddenly have an all DPS group for the role check.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Pay no attention to that person. They're a proper troll. I think if you can make conjurer work, then that's cool. :)

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I don't like firemage either but he has a very valid point for once
Stop enabling bad player habits. If i ever got a conjurer only player in my group i would force a vote kick or leave then report them

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I think people are taking this way too seriously and thinking of the worst possible scenarios for this person to show up. There are plenty of duties someone can run in this manner. The fact is we have people out their with full kits that can't make good use of all those skills, so if someone can make this word, good on them.

Of course running Gladiator or Marauder is out of the question.

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No matter what duty they run they make the run take longer just by not being white mage.
I don't want my time wasted because someone is doing a "challenge" if they want that start a party finder to queue with people who share this weird playstyle

Geez, I skipped the the last page to avoid the troll's derailing of the thread and found that it was completely successful. I swear, it's impossible for the people in this forum community to just NOT feed the trolls.

AS FOR THE ORIGINAL POST: I somewhat agree that there are opportunities here that aren't necessarily capitalized on, but I also understand why. The goal of the system is to offer flexibility to the player without offering an advantage to people who have leveled multiple/all jobs (or at least, not a huge advantage).

I always wished that there was either a limited job or content that really leaned on having multiple jobs leveled. A limited job like a "Weaponsmaster/Onion Knight" or something that allows you to build out your hotbars using any abilities, or content that allowed you a special ability for having a job at 90. But, I recognize that it's very difficult to straddle the line between "People that have a lot of things leveled are overpowered" and "There's no point in leveling anything else" whenever you're talking about doing something like this for content that is "current."

The way the system is is basically the same as logging out and logging back in another character, without the need to do that. With a couple of exceptions. That helps keep it so that leveling 1 job is all that people really need.

I try to give the benefit of the doubt at first. There is a chance the person simply disagrees with you on one aspect, but may very well agree with many other things. If that is the case, some discussion can still be made there with the agreed upon points. At first, it looked like maybe there could have been some discussion on Healer kits feeling boring with a couple button damage rotations. Then I was ignored since said discussion was not wanted it seems with some cherry picking of words elsewhere ... I mean, I can understand we have other threads talking about it in more details, but not even a word to say what general DPS or healing approach they want for the 4 jobs.

Having another limited job like Blue Mage is interesting to hear. I am still slowly working on that class through FATEs and I can see why it is capped at 70 still. The FATEs from levels 5 - 20 get steamrolled by 1000 Needles and you can get Ram's Voice and Bad Breath to gimp the higher level 40 enemies. It does require clearing that 37 dungeon Cutter's Cry to unlock Ram's Voice and Dragon's Voice. I can already attest it is worth it to freeze stun enemies. It doesn't work on a few FATE bosses, but Bad Breath is there to cover that with a DoT and reducing damage they deal. Also a bonus when Paralysis randomly stops them too. With all of these stuff happening with Blue Mage already, I will have to think a lot for what the Weaponmaster or so could do differently.