Ranked Crystalline Conflict needs old Feast rewards to keep it alive

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

The majority also happens to go by gut feeling rather than educated reasoning for their "don't" so I have a hard time valuing the majority's opinion on something that has an actual problem.

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Thats fine dude, you don't have to value everybody's opinion nor does anybody have to value yours... it is what it is and i just so happen to agree with the majority when it comes to the FOMO reward system.

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

Thats fine dude, you don't have to value everybody's opinion nor does anybody have to value yours... it is what it is and i just so happen to agree with the majority when it comes to the FOMO reward system.

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Well, understandable, coming from a different background I consider FOMO rewards not as problematic as others, at least depending on the context of the activity and time period you have.

I'll be fair, it is best that we agree on that we will never actually agree on this particular thing. Forgive on this part though, I will continue promoting what I believe in, even if I go against the grain.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Well, understandable, coming from a different background I consider FOMO rewards not as problematic as others, at least depending on the context of the activity and time period you have.

I'll be fair, it is best that we agree on that we will never actually agree on this particular thing. Forgive on this part though, I will continue promoting what I believe in, even if I go against the grain.

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shoot for the stars dude, they probably wont bring the ranked exclusives back in the form of mounts/glams/minions but you will probably get better frames/housing furniture, if they did history would repeat lol

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

To say we don't want something to be a sport means we have to eliminate PvP/Ranked as a whole.

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Yeah no I agree with you I'm just saying between the lack of reward structure and the player base going hard at casual queue it seems like that.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

Don't read into people's minds like that. It might very well be that the people who just so happen to get the top 100 seasonal rewards actually do care about the health of the game mode and truly believe that such rewards are healthy for the game. I disagree with that notion, but to discredit their character like that is to end up with a discussion like the following:

One side: Wants everything for everyone allegedly but WOULD have rewards limited to themselves if they weren't so incapable, so they demand handouts as their only way of getting anything. CC will die because nothing is to be gained by achieving greatness.
Other side: Allegedly wants everything for themselves and others not to have shit. Only cares about virtual prestige and only achieves greatness to take away from others. Sociopaths are the only remaining contenders for top 100.

If these are the real motivations behind this whole discussion, then the health of the game mode is not actually the subject and just an excuse. These are mad positions to hold.

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I think you're misconstruing my comment. I never pointed specifically at high ranked players and the people getting the rewards. I have also been into top 100 feast, got a nice mount that I actually love, but if anybody wants to enjoy it too, please, be my guest and have fun?

Don't read into my mind either. I'm not in your strawman first side, by far. I am a low top ranking player that advocates for equality of access to rewards. Anybody can have even an ultimate reward. May be hard, may be almost impossible for some, but the content isn't going away and you can try. FOMO pvp is going away every time.

And I lament that having exclusive rewards like we used to is actually what makes people play, according to a lot of what I read. Are we dogs to be awarded with treats to push us playing, when playing should be the reward itself?

I find it pretty depressing to think about personally.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I am glad you enjoy playing without desiring trophies of the like. However to call it "fragile egos" is a bit harsh when we are merely critical in your time invested vs what we reap and judging if it is worth trying hard in Ranked or if we can just stomp in Casual for essentially the same thing.

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Thank you for making my point further. You play for goodies and rewards, got it.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

We can talk in circles around how we are supposed to play the mode for fun, honour or for the thrill of competition, but with nothing on the line it just feels like Casual with a different brush of paint and slimmer queues.

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If you really think that casual is the same than ranked, I have to wonder what rank you're evolving with to come to such a conclusion? Casual is full of casuals, and new players to the mode. Going in there feels like seal clubbing every time, on top of having clownfiestas (which is to be expected, it's not diamond/crystal).

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Fundamentally anything that has two sides of a table interacting with the other side as their goal and hurdle is a competition and if it has enough room for skill expression is essentially a sport. Not a physical activity one, but it is a competition.

PvP is fundamentally a competition and Ranked is making a competition and essentially comparing skill levels. To say we don't want something to be a sport means we have to eliminate PvP/Ranked as a whole.

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I think what most people are missing when using the word "sport" is actually how loaded it is. Game predates sport, and sport just introduces a baotload of highly loaded things. Sport is a product of modern society, shaped around striving for performance, and based around competition and yield, with repetition and hyper specialization. It entertains the myths of equality of chances in front of a challenge, and it sucks out the fun out of pretty much everything.

That's where I couldn't disagree more, I don't want to play the mode for competition. I want to play the game with people of similar skill than myself; and have fun as a result.

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Originally Posted by Valence

I think what most people are missing when using the word "sport" is actually how loaded it is. Game predates sport, and sport just introduces a baotload of highly loaded things. Sport is a product of modern society, shaped around striving for performance, and based around competition and yield, with repetition and hyper specialization. It entertains the myths of equality of chances in front of a challenge, and it sucks out the fun out of pretty much everything.

That's where I couldn't disagree more, I don't want to play the mode for competition. I want to play the game with people of similar skill than myself; and have fun as a result.

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this 100%, while rewards are nice id much rather focus on the fun.

We have exclusive mounts, minions, titles, tattoos that are all older than feast rewards. Start with those then if you are against any kind of exklusivity in the game. I'm personally in favor of having "rare" items, so they feel more prestigious and more challenging to achieve. Or all just becomes a big timeintensive grind, and thats what bots could achieve, and then everyone is a winner in the end. But in PvP, who would have guessed, there are winner and losers and if you lose you dont get the gold medal for 1st place.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Thank you for making my point further. You play for goodies and rewards, got it.

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Yes I am and I'm tired of people who think it is a bad thing that I do. God forbid I have my unique goodies for competing on ladder in my MMORPG where I want to stand out.

I also do other things for incentive and skip things without incentive. Shocker, right? I value my time in what I gain out of it.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

We have exclusive mounts, minions, titles, tattoos that are all older than feast rewards. Start with those then if you are against any kind of exklusivity in the game. I'm personally in favor of having "rare" items, so they feel more prestigious and more challenging to achieve. Or all just becomes a big timeintensive grind, and thats what bots could achieve, and then everyone is a winner in the end. But in PvP, who would have guessed, there are winner and losers and if you lose you dont get the gold medal for 1st place.

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We are not saying get rid of exclusives, its the FOMO reward system that needs to be changed.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Yes I am and I'm tired of people who think it is a bad thing that I do. God forbid I have my unique goodies for competing on ladder in my MMORPG where I want to stand out.

I also do other things for incentive and skip things without incentive. Shocker, right? I value my time in what I gain out of it.

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dude, just go play destiny then.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Yes I am and I'm tired of people who think it is a bad thing that I do. God forbid I have my unique goodies for competing on ladder in my MMORPG where I want to stand out.

I also do other things for incentive and skip things without incentive. Shocker, right? I value my time in what I gain out of it.

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I'm not saying this is a bad thing. I'm saying this is fundamentally opposed and detrimental to the kind of system I want to evolve in, and i'll never stop pushing back against it.

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Originally Posted by Valence

I think you're misconstruing my comment. I never pointed specifically at high ranked players and the people getting the rewards. I have also been into top 100 feast, got a nice mount that I actually love, but if anybody wants to enjoy it too, please, be my guest and have fun?

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I agree and it honors you that you don't care, but I have yet to read from a non-top 100 player that they want time-limited top 100 exclusive generic rewards.

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Don't read into my mind either. I'm not in your strawman first side, by far. I am a low top ranking player that advocates for equality of access to rewards. Anybody can have even an ultimate reward. May be hard, may be almost impossible for some, but the content isn't going away and you can try. FOMO pvp is going away every time.

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No, you are on the other side. The one who characterizes those who want top 100 rewards as having fragile egos.

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And I lament that having exclusive rewards like we used to is actually what makes people play, according to a lot of what I read.

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No to FOMO rewards, but

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Are we dogs to be awarded with treats to push us playing, when playing should be the reward itself?

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Yes to rewards. In a game where certain activities reward you with goodies, those which don't will be the least populated.

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Originally Posted by Valence

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Yes I am and I'm tired of people who think it is a bad thing that I do. God forbid I have my unique goodies for competing on ladder in my MMORPG where I want to stand out.

I also do other things for incentive and skip things without incentive. Shocker, right? I value my time in what I gain out of it.

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I'm not saying this is a bad thing. I'm saying this is fundamentally opposed and detrimental to the kind of system I want to evolve in, and i'll never stop pushing back against it.

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I think it's bad that at the very most 100 players per datacenter get access to standing out at the cost of the rest of the playerbase, because in my mind mounts and glamour are way more character customization options than they are prestige items. In a battle between prestige and access to character customization options, the latter would weigh so strong that it would forever prevent the introduction of any sort of generic FOMO customization reward period.

There is a certain spiritual value to the 1.0 rewards, so those are special in my mind and they make sense.

I wanna ask this question: If the reward to stand out was a crown or a medal which says #X (X being your placement in the top 100) would you still care? Is it just about standing out, just about the prestige, or isn't it also about having something that others want but can't have? As far as I'm concerned there is absolutely nothing about the top 100 rewards that would in any way signify them as being special PvP rewards, they are generic and something everybody would care about.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

I think it's bad that at the very most 100 players per datacenter get access to standing out at the cost of the rest of the playerbase, because in my mind mounts and glamour are way more character customization options than they are prestige items. In a battle between prestige and access to character customization options, the latter would weigh so strong that it would forever prevent the introduction of any sort of generic FOMO customization reward period.

There is a certain spiritual value to the 1.0 rewards, so those are special in my mind and they make sense.

I wanna ask this question: If the reward to stand out was a crown or a medal which says #X (X being your placement in the top 100) would you still care? Is it just about standing out, just about the prestige, or isn't it also about having something that others want but can't have? As far as I'm concerned there is absolutely nothing about the top 100 rewards that would in any way signify them as being special PvP rewards, they are generic and something everybody would care about.

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ranked can get a crown/frame/title/furniture item, anything beyond that im not ok with because ranked got like 16-18 seasons worth of glamours that were FOMO rewards while the whole casual side of things *literally 90% of pvp* was neglected, not only that i think EVERYBODY should be able to go get these rewards at any time since the FOMO reward system is just.... bad, i can't think of anybody that actually /likes/ this. all in all, if they don't plan on changing the reward structure they should at least make sure to update the series pass and crystal shop every season and on top of that make sure that theres a incentive to get players into ranked like giving them more series pass exp for playing ranked... even more exp if they win.

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

ranked can get a crown/frame/title/furniture item, anything beyond that im not ok with because ranked got like 16-18 seasons worth of glamours that were FOMO rewards while the whole casual side of things *literally 90% of pvp* was neglected, not only that i think EVERYBODY should be able to go get these rewards at any time since the FOMO reward system is just.... bad, i can't think of anybody that actually /likes/ this. all in all, if they don't plan on changing the reward structure they should at least make sure to update the series pass and crystal shop every season and on top of that make sure that theres a incentive to get players into ranked like giving them more series pass exp for playing ranked... even more exp if they win.

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Yeah, the crystal shop not being updated on at least every series was silly.

I've played 200 matches this season and from bronze to gold tier the queue times were less than 5 minutes. Once I reached platinum the queue times went to 30+ minutes (which is honestly a lot more).

Ranked needs ranking decay to keep it alive. What better way than to secure yourself than to just stop playing? Hell, if you don't play it even cancels out other people ever making it higher, too!

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Originally Posted by Eisi

No, you are on the other side. The one who characterizes those who want top 100 rewards as having fragile egos.

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I read nothing in what you wrote even talking about "characterizing those who want top 100 rewards as having fragile egos."

> "One side: Wants everything for everyone allegedly but WOULD have rewards limited to themselves if they weren't so incapable, so they demand handouts as their only way of getting anything."

I do not qualify for that group as I'm not incapable and have the rankings to prove it. Yet I demand collectivization of rewards.

> "Other side: Allegedly wants everything for themselves and others not to have shit. Only cares about virtual prestige and only achieves greatness to take away from others. Sociopaths are the only remaining contenders for top 100."

I do not quality for that group either, as I allegedly do not want everything for myself and other not to have shit. I also do not care about virtual prestige. How do I apply to that group again?

Conclusion: I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. I take offense at being misconstrued with either of those two groups, but I do not deny that I qualify for your last addition on fragile egos (that has nothing to do with those two groups).

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Originally Posted by Eisi

Yes to rewards. In a game where certain activities reward you with goodies, those which don't will be the least populated.

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Nobody argued against the removal of any reward. What you're doing here is a gigantic strawman.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

I wanna ask this question: If the reward to stand out was a crown or a medal which says #X (X being your placement in the top 100) would you still care? Is it just about standing out, just about the prestige, or isn't it also about having something that others want but can't have? As far as I'm concerned there is absolutely nothing about the top 100 rewards that would in any way signify them as being special PvP rewards, they are generic and something everybody would care about.

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I'm confused and wonder if you are actually addressing me or somebody else. I thought I've been pretty adamant in mentioning again and again that I just don't give a fudge about ego rewards. You're just asking this to the wrong person.

Maybe bring back old rewards but new recolors? idk I honestly just don't want ranked to die 3 weeks after a season started like old Feast.
The idea of a ranked currency like Rein said before was already implemented back in Feast days, the wolf collars, but the lack of rewards for those just didn't help at all since there were only weapons and for the guys on top 10 they collected all of them like it was nothing. Maybe make the hellhound weapons glow or something? "Augmented hellhound guillotine" sounds cool right?

Like most here I also hate FOMO rewards but unfortunately, for a competitive game mode, it does really need to have something at stake for people to actually queue up. I also enjoy the thrill of going against other ppl as determined to win as I am like any other pvp player, but saying that a shiny reward at the end didn't grab some of that "passion" for the mode would be a lie.

Honestly, just bring back the old system, add ranking decay and make some grindable trophy for tier rewards, not expecting to have wintraders or boosting would be naive, but that would demand SE to actually police the pvp scenario and I doubt they would do that.

You either bring back old rewards and risk pissing off veteran players and make it just a boring grindfest or just keep it fomo forever and ward off the more casual crowd thinking there's only boosting or win trading every season for all ranks and the queues die in 2 weeks max while community tournaments keeps the community on life support.

There's no way to win here as far as I can see.

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Originally Posted by Iceboy

Maybe bring back old rewards but new recolors? idk I honestly just don't want ranked to die 3 weeks after a season started like old Feast.
The idea of a ranked currency like Rein said before was already implemented back in Feast days, the wolf collars, but the lack of rewards for those just didn't help at all since there were only weapons and for the guys on top 10 they collected all of them like it was nothing. Maybe make the hellhound weapons glow or something? "Augmented hellhound guillotine" sounds cool right?

Like most here I also hate FOMO rewards but unfortunately, for a competitive game mode, it does really need to have something at stake for people to actually queue up. I also enjoy the thrill of going against other ppl as determined to win as I am like any other pvp player, but saying that a shiny reward at the end didn't grab some of that "passion" for the mode would be a lie.

Honestly, just bring back the old system, add ranking decay and make some grindable trophy for tier rewards, not expecting to have wintraders or boosting would be naive, but that would demand SE to actually police the pvp scenario and I doubt they would do that.

You either bring back old rewards and risk pissing off veteran players and make it just a boring grindfest or just keep it fomo forever and ward off the more casual crowd thinking there's only boosting or win trading every season for all ranks and the queues die in 2 weeks max while community tournaments keeps the community on life support.

There's no way to win here as far as I can see.

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Im 100% cool with alternate recolour of previous sets. In fact wouldnt mind those recolours to not be top 100.

Bringing back old stuff in recolour is defo nice, but I absolutely expect new stuff as well. Can be a Mount or set for all I care, just... not just the same framer kit with a different number and excess Trophy crystals.

Trophy Crystal shop really needs an update, it is ridiculous how much I can hoard, so besides nice additions it needs either practical consumables or a massive sink.

But yeah, I have to admit - no matter what system you pick, you wont be able to please everyone, which is why I think it is better to use a system that promotes active play over letting people choose their grind period, risking availability.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Im 100% cool with alternate recolour of previous sets. In fact wouldnt mind those recolours to not be top 100.

Bringing back old stuff in recolour is defo nice, but I absolutely expect new stuff as well. Can be a Mount or set for all I care, just... not just the same framer kit with a different number and excess Trophy crystals.

Trophy Crystal shop really needs an update, it is ridiculous how much I can hoard, so besides nice additions it needs either practical consumables or a massive sink.

But yeah, I have to admit - no matter what system you pick, you wont be able to please everyone, which is why I think it is better to use a system that promotes active play over letting people choose their grind period, risking availability.

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Sounds like you would be ok with them updating the series pass every season then.

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

Sounds like you would be ok with them updating the series pass every season then.

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Id be okay with a lot of things, but I am unsure about the reception of this as seasons are intentionally decoupled from series / Battle Pass. While it meant more battle passes and more unique rewards, it would also mean shorter cycles, enhancing the issue for a casual player.

Instead, I think the Battlepass should be expanded slightly to like Lv50 and have more rewards tied to it so people who are fast have more to do than Lv30 and those who choose to grind at specific time points have a bigger window in the 4month major patch schedule.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Id be okay with a lot of things, but I am unsure about the reception of this as seasons are intentionally decoupled from series / Battle Pass. While it meant more battle passes and more unique rewards, it would also mean shorter cycles, enhancing the issue for a casual player.

Instead, I think the Battlepass should be expanded slightly to like Lv50 and have more rewards tied to it so people who are fast have more to do than Lv30 and those who choose to grind at specific time points have a bigger window in the 4month major patch schedule.

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I agree, this works... its a win for everybody.