Mentor Roulette needs a serious overhaul

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

They signed up for it.

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So did everyone else. And yet that's not it works anything else. Just special pleading without reason.

Get rid of the Carrot on the stick.

BAM, mentor's cleans up the trash.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

So did everyone else. And yet that's not it works anything else. Just special pleading without reason.

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The roulette is an extension of the mentor system. Stop playing dumb.

Don't want to help? Don't do mentor roulette.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

The roulette is an extension of the mentor system. Stop playing dumb.

Don't want to help? Don't do mentor roulette.

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And roulettes is an extension of duty finder, don't want to do the duty, don't use duty finder. 24 hr bans on anyone who quits first. *Can't see that going wrong*(sarcasm)

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

And roulettes is an extension of duty finder, don't want to do the duty, don't use duty finder. 24 hr bans on anyone who quits first. *Can't see that going wrong*(sarcasm)

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Instead of giving more attitude (yet again), realize that being a mentor is an additional requirement for mentor roulette. In no other roulette are you intentionally paired with people going through duties for the first time on purpose. Of course you know this, but you keep ignoring key details that separate it from other roulettes. Allowing mentors to cheat the roulette defeats the whole purpose of it. I gave you the answer you didn't even deserve. You don't have to like it, but you got it. Stop being disingenuous. It's not a good look.

Also pvp has its own special penalties, when it comes to queues. This would not be anything new.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Instead of giving more attitude (yet again), realize that being a mentor is an additional requirement for mentor roulette. In no other roulette are you intentionally paired with people going through duties for the first time on purpose. Of course you know this, but you keep ignoring key details that separate it from other roulettes. Allowing mentors to cheat the roulette defeats the whole purpose of it. I gave you the answer you didn't even deserve. You don't have to like it, but you got it. Stop being disingenuous. It's not a good look.

Also pvp has its own special penalties, when it comes to queues. This would not be anything new.

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That's just the thing, mentor roulette doesn't do that. Mentor roulette isn't a skip to front of the line for first timers.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

That's just the thing, mentor roulette doesn't do that. Mentor roulette isn't a skip to front of the line for first timers.

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It pairs mentors with sprouts. I didn't mention anything about it being a skip to the front of the line for sprouts.

People that actually have run the roulettes say that you will more often than not end up with new players/ sprouts.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

Depends on how bad and how many. 6 toddlers who's combined APM is 4. Yea, never gonna clear. Only the ARR are easy enough sprouts to stumble past barely. Bad sprouts, naw. You might as well take that 30.

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I guess I'm saying you just don't get bad sprouts that often. Not bad enough that you won't clear, at least.

I've been a mentor for years and don't have Mentor Roulette unlocked cause I have all these "????" on the duty list but no clue what it is or where/how to unlock it. I tried to finish the list and after still having like 10 of these optional things that I don't even know they exist...I just gave up looking for them. Could I get these done? Absolutely. It's just not worth the effort.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I hope they add savage to mentor roulette to give whiners even more reason to stop running it and ruining the experience for new players.

It's not even hard to clear EX primals in Mentor roulette, with a handful of exceptions like Ramuh EX or Sephirot. Outside of those few, most EX primals are a quick and easy clear that frequently take less time than a dungeon. A lot of them are even prone to being killed in a single attempt due to power creep.

If a mentor is repeatedly failing to clear EX's in Mentor roulette, they should examine themselves as the common factor.

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If they ever added savage they better also put the coils in there. I've actually done the bulk of them synced by helping sprouts do them in PF. I'd take doing synced old savage content and the coils over another boring guildhests or ARR EX in my mentor roulette. I mean, there's no way people would ever get through Hello World or Grand Cross Delta or Gavel or Light Rampant, but it'd be funny to watch the absolute chaos unfold. I already have the mentor mount so I would welcome the extra spicy mentor roulette to make it interesting again. I don't even get the fun EX trials like Shinryu or Thordan or Hades when I queue on DPS, it's all just boring Garuda and Shiva or guildhests.

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Originally Posted by Arhkun

Greetings,

Id say the title really gives it away. The current state of Mentor Roulette is completely outdated and 90% of the content that you queue into, has nothing to do with being a Mentor.
If it was renamed "Fill-Roulette", itd be a much more fitting title.
The only times where a Mentor can actually help and guide new players, is when we are queued into a synced extreme fight, maybe arguably even a normal trial/raid.
(That is to say people actually listen/follow advice, which we will just assume they do in this post (harassment and ridiculing mentors could be its very own post)).

A seasoned player will not be able to help somebody in a guildhest/regular dungeon or something like castrum meridianum, honestly, the game does a well enough job to teach each player how it works/how it wants to be played. The only aspects that a Mentor can usually address are basic concepts like using aoe spells on multiple mobs or using your cooldowns correctly, but again, the game has a built in system for each role that does a sufficient job.

Now heres my idea: Make 2 new roulettes.
Like mentioned eariler, Fill-Roullette, which would replace the current Mentor Roullette.
Exact same content, completely random and you would just fill spots that are hard to come by otherwise.
New Mentor Roullette, would work via the party finder.
No more hard-queueing extremes, only via PF.
Now, people that help out such groups actually join as a guide/mentor, prepared.
I also suggest increased rewards for such effort, as it can take a good amount of time to help such groups out, especially if you have to explain the entire encounter from start to finish.

This idea is by no means finished and might leave much to be desired before it can actually make it into the game, but I hope this at least sparks a discussion or directs SEs attention to the problem.

Tldr: Mentors are supposed to help and guide new players, not be the fill for content nobody else wanted to do.

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The whole game needs an overhaul.

I think its fine as it is, filling up spots that are needed are a big part of being a mentor and helping out community.

being a mentor isnt just about teaching people what and how to do.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

I've been a mentor for years and don't have Mentor Roulette unlocked cause I have all these "????" on the duty list but no clue what it is or where/how to unlock it. I tried to finish the list and after still having like 10 of these optional things that I don't even know they exist...I just gave up looking for them. Could I get these done? Absolutely. It's just not worth the effort.

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Same.

I only have few StB EX trials left to clear then I’m good to queue for the roulette, but frankly I don’t think I have that patience of a saint to deal with every sort of personalities I’ve read in those anecdotes… I’d rather just let the roulette collect dusts than subjecting randoms to my potentially bad outbursts lol.

Frankly I am quite surprised how easy is to become a mentor, I have the requirements for either crafter/gatherer and pve and I have NEVER did a synced extreme trial aside Emerald Weapon but that was week 1 or 2, so it was more of a learning session which was the first time learning of shared tank buster lol.


Personally I do not even bother becoming a mentor, its roulette is just not worth it, the mount isn't enticing or worth the pain, having a crown is also a bigger pain because you will get treated differently for good or worse so expectations are off the charts.

Luckily If you plan on helping you can just become a normal player, put Join in Progress in the DF settings as your Diet Mentor Roulette and provide whatever help you can.
At the moment, mentor roulette feels like it exists just to exist, nothing against the mentors

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

Frankly I am quite surprised how easy is to become a mentor, I have the requirements for either crafter/gatherer and pve and I have NEVER did a synced extreme trial aside Emerald Weapon but that was week 1 or 2, so it was more of a learning session which was the first time learning of shared tank buster lol.

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The requirements to be a mentor are pretty lax but the requirements to access the mentor roulette aren't.

Few things:

1) Players need to severely re-think what the concept of a mentor is because what they have in their own heads isn't the same thing as what the FFXIV developers have stated. Be a decent example of player behavior, and fill queues. That's about it. A "decent example of behavior" is extremely subjective and everyone has off days.

2) EX content has no business being in mentor roulette, at all. At that level of play, you shouldn't be teaching people basic rotations, how to use abilities they could easily read their tooltips to figure out (read: MITIGATION), and multiple boss mechanics that can't be easily explained over party chat.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Same.

I only have few StB EX trials left to clear then I’m good to queue for the roulette, but frankly I don’t think I have that patience of a saint to deal with every sort of personalities I’ve read in those anecdotes… I’d rather just let the roulette collect dusts than subjecting randoms to my potentially bad outbursts lol.

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Been there, just joined unsync parties and dipped after I got my clears. Took me a day or two to get the ones I was missing. No need to outburst or anything at people at that point since you're in and out in 5m with each with how braindead the unsync strats are now.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The requirements to be a mentor are pretty lax but the requirements to access the mentor roulette aren't.

Few things:

1) Players need to severely re-think what the concept of a mentor is because what they have in their own heads isn't the same thing as what the FFXIV developers have stated. Be a decent example of player behavior, and fill queues. That's about it. A "decent example of behavior" is extremely subjective and everyone has off days.

2) EX content has no business being in mentor roulette, at all. At that level of play, you shouldn't be teaching people basic rotations, how to use abilities they could easily read their tooltips to figure out (read: MITIGATION), and multiple boss mechanics that can't be easily explained over party chat.

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Been brought up already but region play differences factor into EX trials being on the DF and a requirement for mentor roulette. I personally think they should separate requirements based on DC (since NA flat out ignores DF extremes while JP uses it for farms/when you actually know the mechanics) but that's probably gonna be too much effort for them.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Been there, just joined unsync parties and dipped after I got my clears. Took me a day or two to get the ones I was missing. No need to outburst or anything at people at that point since you're in and out in 5m with each with how braindead the unsync strats are now.

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Eh, the outburst meant for "if I get to unlock Mentor Roulette & doing it".

I'm aware those EX are easy to unsync nowadays. I just haven't mustered any motivation to get them cleared. Not being a 'mount person' certainly allows me to not bother them at all.

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Originally Posted by Bukachu

I think its fine as it is, filling up spots that are needed are a big part of being a mentor and helping out community.

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That's why it's not fine. Filling up spots is important, but it's restricted to Mentor only.

Personally I'd turn Mentor Roulette into Adventurer in Need Roulette. Anyone could queue for it and it would fill in any duties (EX and Savage excluded) with long wait times. It would also be tied to the Astrope mount.

Mentorship itself needs a full rework. No rewards or crowns and better systems for players who want to learn to actually find help from other players.

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

Frankly I am quite surprised how easy is to become a mentor, I have the requirements for either crafter/gatherer and pve and I have NEVER did a synced extreme trial aside Emerald Weapon but that was week 1 or 2, so it was more of a learning session which was the first time learning of shared tank buster lol.


Personally I do not even bother becoming a mentor, its roulette is just not worth it, the mount isn't enticing or worth the pain, having a crown is also a bigger pain because you will get treated differently for good or worse so expectations are off the charts.

Luckily If you plan on helping you can just become a normal player, put Join in Progress in the DF settings as your Diet Mentor Roulette and provide whatever help you can.
At the moment, mentor roulette feels like it exists just to exist, nothing against the mentors

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When you bury the skill floor by the core of the Earth then everyone can be a mentor! lol

The mentor system as a whole works in JP servers, so it wont change anytime soon

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

Frankly I am quite surprised how easy is to become a mentor,

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Its the opposite for me, I find the "1500 comedations" part extremly tedious and long. for PVE mentor that is, rest of things are fine but 1500 comedations is just too much for me. and aside from that other requirements are too vague. "get level 80 with a healer"

I think getting better requirements for PvE mentor would be nice. PvE has so many aspects that isnt limited to "raid, trial, dungeon" and including those achivements in requirement would be neat imo.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

That's why it's not fine. Filling up spots is important, but it's restricted to Mentor only.

Personally I'd turn Mentor Roulette into Adventurer in Need Roulette. Anyone could queue for it and it would fill in any duties (EX and Savage excluded) with long wait times. It would also be tied to the Astrope mount.

Mentorship itself needs a full rework. No rewards or crowns and better systems for players who want to learn to actually find help from other players.

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aside from extremes and savages I dont think its restricted to mentors only. and extremes and savages isnt something a new player should be doing imo, its just that far away in difficulty from "normal" stuff.

that's just my feedback as a new player at least, I didnt know I "wasnt suppoed to queue them" and when I did it was a wipe fest for an hour until people left, awful experience. ultimately I learned not to queue them from mentor too who I also became good friends with.

I do agree that mentorship needs a full rework however, but my reasoning is different, most mentors are quiet literally clueless about the game sadly, as I was leveling I met 10-15% who could answer questions but most had no idea about close to anything, and it was just people who played 1000 roulette dungeons, got 1500 comedations and were too bored to level 3 jobs to 80.

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Originally Posted by Bukachu

that's just my feedback as a new player at least, I didnt know I "wasnt suppoed to queue them" and when I did it was a wipe fest for an hour until people left, awful experience. ultimately I learned not to queue them from mentor too who I also became good friends with.

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This is really the core of the problem in the West and all that really needs to be addressed. Baldesion Arsenal got a nice block of text warning about the difficulty. This is all that's really needed at some point in people's discovery of Extremes.

Any mentor that says newbies shouldn't do extreme trials probably can't do extreme trials themselves. That's horrible advice.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Any mentor that says newbies shouldn't do extreme trials probably can't do extreme trials themselves. That's horrible advice.

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No, it's the correct advice to give. Mentors aren't meant to carry people that are doing content above their station

I'm fine with Mentor Roulette as is tbh.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

No, it's the correct advice to give. Mentors aren't meant to carry people that are doing content above their station

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You being unable to do extremes as a newbie should have no bearing.

Oh god. Here we go again.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

I don't really play pve anymore but if I did, it would be a lot better.

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Back up your bark

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Newbies clear ARR Extremes all of the time.

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Yeah, unsynced

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Back up your bark



Yeah, unsynced

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Bark? You dumb twit. We aren't talking about people when they aren't newbies.

No even synced.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Bark? You dumb twit. We aren't talking about people when they aren't newbies.

No even synced.

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Yes, bark. You're boasting with no merit to do so. Maybe do your research, t-cup


Rarely, but hey you can back up your lie at any point...

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Yes, bark. You're boasting with no merit to do so. Maybe do your research, t-cup


Rarely

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Boasting what? You posted fflogs over someone saying newbies can clear synced extremes. Sounds like to me you are compensating for something.

It's very common.

I have a love hate relationship with this forum

Hot Take: Mentor roulette should give no rewards whatsoever. It should not be another check mark for collectors, but a place where people who genuinely want to help, get to help and that's it.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Hot Take: Mentor roulette should give no rewards whatsoever. It should not be another check mark for collectors, but a place where people who genuinely want to help, get to help and that's it.

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That honestly might be the best route. Maybe tie the reward into something else or just let it go.

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Originally Posted by flowerfairy

I have a love hate relationship with this forum

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Sometimes it's worth the cost of popcorn. Speaking of which, got any?

I think mentor roulette matches me into either a guildhest or an expert roulette around 90% of the time, which probably wouldn't be the case if it made the match making prioritize instances with players who haven't gotten a clear yet.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Hot Take: Mentor roulette should give no rewards whatsoever. It should not be another check mark for collectors, but a place where people who genuinely want to help, get to help and that's it.

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It would also be nice to have a general roulette to help fill any slots in normal content that had at least one new player to the duty. I don't want to do mentor roulette because I don't want to deal with people blindly queuing for EX trials with no knowledge or desire to actually learn. I made the mistake of using DF to try to do the Rathalos EX trial back when it was new, and got someone who used all the faints because they didn't understand any of the mechanics even though it's almost 1:1 of the normal version. No thank you.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

I don't really play pve anymore but if I did, it would be a lot better.

You yourself said newbies can't do extremes, which means you as a newbie couldn't do extremes, which is actually easy content. Newbies clear ARR Extremes all of the time.

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Emphasis mine.

Newbies rarely clear EX's other than the extremely easy ones (Garuda, Maybe leviathan)

Unreal clear rates show that even vets have trouble at synced min ilvl runs of old EX's (which is what unreal is supposed to simulate).

There are still people who get knocked off Titan's platform 8 years after the fact and after the netcode changes to be better. Ramuh routinely wipes groups because they don't know how to clear orbs or even swap to adds despite Ramuh going immune.

Newbies in Thordan EX min ilvl? LOL. Newbies in Sephirot EX? No thanks. Seat of Sacrifice?

Point is, there is usually 1 or 2 "easy" EX's per tier and after that they can get mechanically heavy and if newbies are just queueing up wanting to be carried with no knowledge before hand? Not many people have time for that.

Why would they do Thordan min ilvl?

Also, the one mentor roulette I did was Sephirot. We cleared.