Turn on Demolish for Housing and fix housing please.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

I'm not actually sure it would help a lot. In fact, I don't think it would free up a single house.

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It doesnt have to. But it solves the FC ward issue.

Now for FCs the FC wards were used to guarantee a house. Which is required for that workshop. But if the workshop is removed from those houses and put at the FC itself. A house isnt required. Which means that FC houses can become part of the individual house market, with equaly bad odds of obtaining a house. To balance it out further, they could even decide that FC bidding can only be done by the leader (or limit that bidding in some other way to avoid an FC spamming bids on for example a large/medium house - which are already have enough competition as it is).

Thats what it can help. And sure, if they have a house, they can make the workshop accessible from both.

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Originally Posted by MistyMew

As someone who also owns a house I never want them to turn it on again...ever.

Its borderline criminal for them to take away an in game purchase simply because we dont log in as often as THEY say to? ...paying continually isnt even enough? LOL

It is a disgusting/shameful feature that should never have been implemented.
Fix the problem, instanced housing , enough for all. NOTHING less should be acceptable.

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Pretty much this.

and filthy shills defending the system is even more disgusting.

Its funny tho, we got islands, a content that lasted a week and wont be remembered ever again, and islands hold same capacity on servers as houses do, but they "couldnt add more housing because poor small indie company couldnt get access to more servers" or some excuse in those lines.

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Originally Posted by Bukachu

Its funny tho, we got islands, a content that lasted a week and wont be remembered ever again, and islands hold same capacity on servers as houses do, but they "couldnt add more housing because poor small indie company couldnt get access to more servers" or some excuse in those lines.

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That shows a lack of understanding though how much space is taken by open world vs instanced places but vent if you like. I wont stop you. It is frustrating esp when people that dont play just log in one every month to keep a house they never use. It is old. Feel bad for the large fcs.

No hurry, my sub runs out any moment and I can't be bothered to check my houses

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Originally Posted by Serenitey

That shows a lack of understanding though how much space is taken by open world vs instanced places but vent if you like. I wont stop you. It is frustrating esp when people that dont play just log in one every month to keep a house they never use. It is old. Feel bad for the large fcs.

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The point is that they showed they're able to do it with IS.

They literally could have just not given us IS and given us IH instead. You can pretty much do everything involved in housing on the Island already outside of furniture placement but if you can place buildings and change their appearance, it isn't a hard stretch to think that furniture placement is possible as well. So, if IS isn't a test for IH, I'm really confused why they'd just give us that instead of making instanced housing (which is what was actually asked for).

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Originally Posted by Gemina

snip

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Imma be honest, I only read the first two paragraphs of your post. Nothing personal.

As far as paying a tax, I own several houses in LOTRO so I'm not a stranger to upkeep. So yeah, I'd be fine with it. Nothing I'm not already used to.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Imma be honest, I only read the first two paragraphs of your post. Nothing personal.

As far as paying a tax, I own several houses in LOTRO so I'm not a stranger to upkeep. So yeah, I'd be fine with it. Nothing I'm not already used to.

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That's cool. Any time and effort wasted in responding directly to you is my own error in judgment. I will keep that in mind when seeing your posts in the future.

I'd be happy if they just kept adding housing wards. At least then the demand would thin out ever so slightly. It is so painful how obvious a solution it is that I hate thinking about it. Add more wards! You have space in the UI! Spend the extra 60 dollars for a couple more server blades SE!

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Originally Posted by Gemina

That's cool. Any time and effort wasted in responding directly to you is my own error in judgment. I will keep that in mind when seeing your posts in the future.

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Whatever makes you happy dear. That's what matters after all.

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Originally Posted by MistyMew

As someone who also owns a house I never want them to turn it on again...ever.

Its borderline criminal for them to take away an in game purchase simply because we dont log in as often as THEY say to? ...paying continually isnt even enough? LOL

It is a disgusting/shameful feature that should never have been implemented.
Fix the problem, instanced housing , enough for all. NOTHING less should be acceptable.

---

Wanted to come back to this as I missed it I believe.

I don't really think it's criminal to take away part of a service if you aren't paying for said service anymore. You also didn't buy the house with actual money so there's nothing criminal going on in that sense (unless you RMTd in which case that's your own problem). This isn't a single player game where you buy it as a hard copy and it's yours forever, you're paying a monthly fee to access an online game that could have servers shut down tomorrow if the devs wanted to. What happens to all of your stuff then? Poof. It will also eventually happen too, btw.

If you aren't playing the game or paying for a sub for months on end, why do you need a house that you aren't using and could go to someone else who will use it? Like, realistically, why? What purpose is it serving you collecting dust in a ward? If you care that much about your house, play the game or find someone else to pay your sub for you.

If they won't put in instanced housing or some form of housing that is accessible to all (not apartments because apartment does not equal house), auto demo will eventually go back on. It's not fair to the people who don't have housing and want to experience that part of the content to be locked out because people who don't even play the game anymore care about a house they don't use.

Leave it off...

Times like this are the only times Yoshi speaks the truth..

"Hey guys you really can unsubscribe and take breaks between patches and have EVERYTHING here when you come back.."

isn't it amazing...

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Leave it off...

Times like this are the only times Yoshi speaks the truth..

"Hey guys you really can unsubscribe and take breaks between patches and have EVERYTHING here when you come back.."

isn't it amazing...

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Sure, what do we do on all the worlds with no more houses available then ? What is your solution ? They dont want instanced housing, so no more houses will come up at all or barely any at all and they will all have 500 bids on them.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Sure, what do we do on all the worlds with no more houses available then ? What is your solution ? They dont want instanced housing, so no more houses will come up at all or barely any at all and they will all have 500 bids on them.

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Move your Miqote ass to Alpha and Raiden.

currently available:

Alpha: 1134 private plots available, 1 Larges and 95 Mediums
Raiden: 1231 private plots available, 2 Larges and 114 Mediums

There your self inflicted problem for wanting a house is solved.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

It doesnt have to. But it solves the FC ward issue.

Now for FCs the FC wards were used to guarantee a house. Which is required for that workshop. But if the workshop is removed from those houses and put at the FC itself. A house isnt required. Which means that FC houses can become part of the individual house market, with equaly bad odds of obtaining a house. To balance it out further, they could even decide that FC bidding can only be done by the leader (or limit that bidding in some other way to avoid an FC spamming bids on for example a large/medium house - which are already have enough competition as it is).

Thats what it can help. And sure, if they have a house, they can make the workshop accessible from both.

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No, it doesn't "solve" the FC ward issue. That's a different kettle of fish.

It's clear in Yoshi's mind that housing is primary for FCs and secondary to personal. Evidence for this is that it was originally FC only, only releasing to people later. Further evidence for this is that they brought in the 50/50 split for the start of lottery and have maintained a smaller one since.

It does seem that this split will remain, that Yoshi really desires FCs to be able to get housing so they can grow their community. And due to that I really doubt we will ever see the removal of FC only wards.

Now;

Consider that moving subs to a door in the home state main city doesn't impact genuine FCs, these usually desire an estate to set up and be a centre for FC activities. Moving subs to city won't change that. And genuine FCs are by far the main use. The housing surveys prove that.

And as far as Multiple Sub Pens, doing this would make it absolutely easier for everyone to get 8 sub pens up per account. No limits of getting the house first. Do we want that?

Hmm, actually, saying that - bring it on! It would allow effortless forming of 8 sub farms on every single server for this account! (mind you the subsequent grinding would send me to an early grave, heh)

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Originally Posted by Yodada

Move your Miqote ass to Alpha and Raiden.

currently available:

Alpha: 1134 private plots available, 1 Larges and 95 Mediums
Raiden: 1231 private plots available, 2 Larges and 114 Mediums

There your self inflicted problem for wanting a house is solved.

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First I'm not your friend, you dont tell me to "move my miqote ass", we didnt grow up together, stay polite.

Second my main is already on Phantom, maybe ask so you dont look stupid.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Second my main is already on Phantom, maybe ask so you dont look stupid.

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So, the question becomes... do you have a house?

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Wanted to come back to this as I missed it I believe.

I don't really think it's criminal to take away part of a service if you aren't paying for said service anymore. You also didn't buy the house with actual money so there's nothing criminal going on in that sense (unless you RMTd in which case that's your own problem). This isn't a single player game where you buy it as a hard copy and it's yours forever, you're paying a monthly fee to access an online game that could have servers shut down tomorrow if the devs wanted to. What happens to all of your stuff then? Poof. It will also eventually happen too, btw.

If you aren't playing the game or paying for a sub for months on end, why do you need a house that you aren't using and could go to someone else who will use it? Like, realistically, why? What purpose is it serving you collecting dust in a ward? If you care that much about your house, play the game or find someone else to pay your sub for you.

If they won't put in instanced housing or some form of housing that is accessible to all (not apartments because apartment does not equal house), auto demo will eventually go back on. It's not fair to the people who don't have housing and want to experience that part of the content to be locked out because people who don't even play the game anymore care about a house they don't use.

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I think if the case was "we'll take it away but give it back to you when you're back" none would care. the issue is, you obtain something in the game, and it can easily be taken away from you if you decide to take as little as 2 month break.

Its funny because Main Dev has said something in lines of "I encourage people to take breaks and not feel the need to log in all the time", while simultaniously taking away your progress and things you've obtained. I've played tons of games and I dont believe a single game had practice like it, not saying there're not any but I have never played one that takes away your acomplishments if you stop paying money simply put. to me its an awful predatory practice, and it only gets worse because on top of losing a house you also lose all your items shortly after.

at the end of the day its a good way to make sure you have at least 554400 subscribers, but awful thing to do in any other regard. at least that's how I see it.

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Originally Posted by Bukachu

I think if the case was "we'll take it away but give it back to you when you're back" none would care. the issue is, you obtain something in the game, and it can easily be taken away from you if you decide to take as little as 2 month break.

Its funny because Main Dev has said something in lines of "I encourage people to take breaks and not feel the need to log in all the time", while simultaniously taking away your progress and things you've obtained. I've played tons of games and I dont believe a single game had practice like it, not saying there're not any but I have never played one that takes away your acomplishments if you stop paying money simply put. to me its an awful predatory practice, and it only gets worse because on top of losing a house you also lose all your items shortly after.

at the end of the day its a good way to make sure you have at least 554400 subscribers, but awful thing to do in any other regard. at least that's how I see it.

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It exists in LOTRO. If you don't pay upkeep your house is removed from you. They actually have a pretty similar system for housing as here except it's fully FCFS and comes with premium wards for people who want to use paid currency (which can also be removed from you when your sub expires)

Just pointing out one.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

So, the question becomes... do you have a house?

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I have more than enough houses, yes.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I have more than enough houses, yes.

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I am glad! (really)

Moving to new servers does fix the problem, a lot of my European friends have gotten their mediums or larges. I know when the new servers hit NA a lot of my NA friends will have a great chance at a house.

But yes, it does come down to "just how much does one want their home". For a lot of people, the home isn't as important as maintaining their main with FC/Friends.

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Originally Posted by Bukachu

Its funny because Main Dev has said something in lines of "I encourage people to take breaks and not feel the need to log in all the time"

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Playing devil's advocate, his statement and losing the house by following his advice aren't inclusive in with each other, what he is saying is factually true.

Yoshida "It's alright not to play it everyday. Since it's just a game, you can stop forcing yourself if it's hard on you to keep that up. Rather, it'll just pile up unnecessary stress if you limit yourself into playing just that one game since there are so many other games out there. So, do come back and play it to your heart's content when the major patch kicks in, then stop it to play other games before you got burnt out, and then come back for another major patch. This will actually make me happier, and in the end, I think this is the best solution I can answer for keeping your motivation up for the game." ~ Yoshi-P. Source: https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/tekitou_...5/552b324e.jpg

You can easily take a break from playing FF14. You only need to log in once every 45 days(?) to keep the house, which takes all of 5ish mins. The remaining 44 days, 23 hours and 55 minutes you can spend not playing FF14 and taking a break from it. Yoshi-P says that specifically because players will always devour content infinitely faster than developers can create it, so he encourages people to not be playing FF14 24/7 since you'll eventually run out of content to digest.

His statement however, is carefully worded in such a way so that he's not saying to unsub, just to take a break, a very important distinction. People simply interpret his words to imply unsubbing is fine when that wasn't the intention behind them. They're a business; they -obviously- want you to stay subbed every month, it's simply beneficial to both the devs & the player's mental health that they don't try and force themself to play the game if they're suffering from burnout, which is what he addresses with most of his 'take a break' comments. He's not being hypocritical or going against his own words, he's just being very sly with the wording on them so that his PR response sounds very empathetic.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

I am glad! (really)

Moving to new servers does fix the problem, a lot of my European friends have gotten their mediums or larges. I know when the new servers hit NA a lot of my NA friends will have a great chance at a house.

But yes, it does come down to "just how much does one want their home". For a lot of people, the home isn't as important as maintaining their main with FC/Friends.

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That is how I got most of what I have yeah, new worlds were a blessing in that regard, there are so many plots available too which is good.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

There your self inflicted problem for wanting a house is solved.

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I'd argue when the game gives me items that are for houses only then the problem is not self inflicted. I want a house because they gave me things that make having a house desirable when I was doing other content.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

It exists in LOTRO. If you don't pay upkeep your house is removed from you. They actually have a pretty similar system for housing as here except it's fully FCFS and comes with premium wards for people who want to use paid currency (which can also be removed from you when your sub expires)

Just pointing out one.

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I did play Lotro but wasnt the "rent" payed with in game currency IIRC?

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Originally Posted by Silverghost

I'd argue when the game gives me items that are for houses only then the problem is not self inflicted. I want a house because they gave me things that make having a house desirable when I was doing other content.

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But it never really bothered you from 2011 until 2022?

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Originally Posted by Yodada

Move your Miqote ass to Alpha and Raiden.

currently available:

Alpha: 1134 private plots available, 1 Larges and 95 Mediums
Raiden: 1231 private plots available, 2 Larges and 114 Mediums

There your self inflicted problem for wanting a house is solved.

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Anybody who wants a house in the European datacenters needs to seriously consider this advice. On Alpha or Raiden, you can get a guaranteed house while remaining on your datacenter. You don't have to deal with the queues and economy of a new datacenter. You don't have to worry about being totally separated from your friends, because they are just an aetheryte away and you can still set up group chats with a CWLS.

The new servers they plan to add in the future will be on a new datacenter. This is a much bigger sacrifice than moving to Alpha or Raiden. The separation from your old server will be more complete. This is somewhat mitigated by datacenter travel, but that is nowhere near as seamless as being on the same datacenter. You can't just hop back and forth between your new and old servers so easily.

It really sucks that SE has still not dealt with the housing supply on established servers, despite the fact that house shortage has been an issue for the better part of a decade now. But I don't see them even considering a fix at least until all their planned new servers fill up. If you are in Europe, the 2 current new servers are a better option than the new datacenter they have planned for next year. If you are in NA, you're gonna have to suck it up and move to a new datacenter next month(unless it gets delayed again). If you are in Oceania, you're not worried about finding a house. And if you are in Japan.... too bad, but at least many of your lotteries end with 2 digit bids.

I think the real issue is, everyone want a Mist, Lavender Bed, and Shirogane plots, especially those hotspot area like beachfront view and plot 11/41 on Lavender Beds. The Goblet and Empyreum just a last resort for them in case all of those popular plots are taken except the Large plots...

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

I think the real issue is, everyone want a Mist, Lavender Bed, and Shirogane plots, especially those hotspot area like beachfront view and plot 11/41 on Lavender Beds. The Goblet and Empyreum just a last resort for them in case all of those popular plots are taken except the Large plots...

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I really really wanted a large Goblet, the place is wonderful. I actually feel like I am going out on a date every time I hang around that open bar with pools :D.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

I think the real issue is, everyone want a Mist, Lavender Bed, and Shirogane plots, especially those hotspot area like beachfront view and plot 11/41 on Lavender Beds. The Goblet and Empyreum just a last resort for them in case all of those popular plots are taken except the Large plots...

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Eh? Empryeum isn't popular? Then again I only see a neighbor by the MB once in a blue moon lol.

Back to OP, more wards but definitely don't bring back the old method on getting a plot. I sure as hell value life and sanity more than clicking countless hours against botters and people using scripts.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

No, it doesn't "solve" the FC ward issue. That's a different kettle of fish.

It's clear in Yoshi's mind that housing is primary for FCs and secondary to personal. Evidence for this is that it was originally FC only, only releasing to people later. Further evidence for this is that they brought in the 50/50 split for the start of lottery and have maintained a smaller one since.

It does seem that this split will remain, that Yoshi really desires FCs to be able to get housing so they can grow their community. And due to that I really doubt we will ever see the removal of FC only wards.

Now;

Consider that moving subs to a door in the home state main city doesn't impact genuine FCs, these usually desire an estate to set up and be a centre for FC activities. Moving subs to city won't change that. And genuine FCs are by far the main use. The housing surveys prove that.

And as far as Multiple Sub Pens, doing this would make it absolutely easier for everyone to get 8 sub pens up per account. No limits of getting the house first. Do we want that?

Hmm, actually, saying that - bring it on! It would allow effortless forming of 8 sub farms on every single server for this account! (mind you the subsequent grinding would send me to an early grave, heh)

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I doubt that having a FC house does all that much for growing FC communities when the house and its features tends to end up the plaything of the officers.

It would be interesting to poll players to get responses to the following:

In order of importance, what were the top 3 reasons you joined your FC.
In order of importance, what are the top 3 reasons you stay in your FC.
In order of importance, what were the top 3 reasons you left FCs you previously had joined.

I bet a majority of respondents wouldn't list the FC house as a reason for any of those, and that of those who do it would mostly be mentioned under 1 or 3, not 2.

YoshiP's intent matters little when the player base clearly feels differently. There comes a point when developers have to say "After several years of access, the players aren't engaging with this content in the way we intended. What changes are needed to make the content a better part of the player's game experience to increase player satisfaction and customer loyalty?"

That said, I expect some wards to be reserved for FCs only because FC only content is gated by ownership of a house. Can't have the workshop without a FC house. Can't get Grade 3 FC actions without a FC house. Unless SE gives FCs a different point of access for those things, plots will need to be reserved for FC purchase. And that of course opens the door to those who want more of a solo player experience to set up the shell FCs to get a house for personal use.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I doubt that having a FC house does all that much for growing FC communities when the house and its features tends to end up the plaything of the officers.

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Not sure Jojo, maybe your experience just hasn't been great?

I know back in the dim dark past when I was in someone elses FC the house was very important for us. We gathered there and were all great friends.

Our own genuine FC house is very important to us (and we worked very hard for that), and opposite us are a very friendly raiding FC who pop up for expansions, and all seem to gather in the plaza area between us.

I've also seen a lot of fresh genuine FCs who advertise in their ads they are grinding towards a house.

Just because one doesn't notice one's FC neighbors when you run from your gate to the front door, doesn't mean they are not there.


I do consider that no matter what we believe though, SE sees them as important and will retain the split. And that of course - going back to the original point of the discussion - still adds evidence to me that a FC door inside the citystate won't free up houses.

I don't get it. Why do you want to apply a monk dot on your house?

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Wanted to come back to this as I missed it I believe.

I don't really think it's criminal to take away part of a service if you aren't paying for said service anymore. You also didn't buy the house with actual money so there's nothing criminal going on in that sense (unless you RMTd in which case that's your own problem). This isn't a single player game where you buy it as a hard copy and it's yours forever, you're paying a monthly fee to access an online game that could have servers shut down tomorrow if the devs wanted to. What happens to all of your stuff then? Poof. It will also eventually happen too, btw.

If you aren't playing the game or paying for a sub for months on end, why do you need a house that you aren't using and could go to someone else who will use it? Like, realistically, why? What purpose is it serving you collecting dust in a ward? If you care that much about your house, play the game or find someone else to pay your sub for you.

If they won't put in instanced housing or some form of housing that is accessible to all (not apartments because apartment does not equal house), auto demo will eventually go back on. It's not fair to the people who don't have housing and want to experience that part of the content to be locked out because people who don't even play the game anymore care about a house they don't use.

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That's just it, Apartments COULD equal house, if SE would put in the work. I have repeatedly made the suggestion that Apartments and FC rooms should be upgradeable using gil with FC rooms having cheaper upgrades (due to the possibility of being kicked from FCs). Imagine an Apartment/FC room that over time you could expand into a small, medium, and large size house, complete with glassed in outdoor section for your outdoor furniture (like a conservatory). For the Apartments the upgraded versions could even have tenets added as you upgrade.

Hell, even have an special upgrade option either for gil or a crafted item or both that would allow you to change the view outside your conservatory. And changing the outside walls of the Conservatory will also change the inside of your apartment/fc room. So this will also rejuvenate the crafting scene as well.

This will also allow SE to just make wards with JUST apartments for the larger servers when there's not a demand world wide for more wards.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Not sure Jojo, maybe your experience just hasn't been great?

I know back in the dim dark past when I was in someone elses FC the house was very important for us. We gathered there and were all great friends.

Our own genuine FC house is very important to us (and we worked very hard for that), and opposite us are a very friendly raiding FC who pop up for expansions, and all seem to gather in the plaza area between us.

I've also seen a lot of fresh genuine FCs who advertise in their ads they are grinding towards a house.

Just because one doesn't notice one's FC neighbors when you run from your gate to the front door, doesn't mean they are not there.


I do consider that no matter what we believe though, SE sees them as important and will retain the split. And that of course - going back to the original point of the discussion - still adds evidence to me that a FC door inside the citystate won't free up houses.

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I doubt don't that a FC house is important to some players and FCs. I do question how important one is to all players and FCs.

My own experience is that the FCs I've been in wouldn't have been any less social in the absence of a FC house. One of the FCs I was in actually spent a fair amount of time hanging around the outside of the Thaumaturge's Guild together even though we could have done it at the FC house. It's the members that create and grow the community, not the house.

The experience you shared has a factor that I think a lot of FCs these days don't have - you worked together to be able to get the house. How many FCs truly work together to do that as opposed to just one or two members footing the entire bill to purchase the plot? How many players never had to sit through the wait to get a house because the FC already had one at the time they joined?

I see FC advertise their recruitment AND mentioning a house as well but how many will end up joining those FCs because of the house? How many of those players discover the FC chat is quiet and people don't do anything together? That the house just kind of sits there unused because only the officers have permissions to decorate, garden, etc.?

Some FCs are good. Some aren't. If the FC is good then great. But as I said above, it's not going to be a house that turn a fair to bad FC into a good one,

I agree that regardless of reasons, the ward split is here to stay.

When it comes to the effectiveness of giving workshops an access point at the Grand Companies or other location, I think it would make a small difference though probably not as large as some might hope. Any house going to a player or FC that actually wants the house itself instead of just wanting access to another workshop is a plus.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I doubt don't that a FC house is important to some players and FCs. I do question how important one is to all players and FCs.

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I really don't think it matters to the question at hand. I still doubt many FCs would give up their home for a submarine hole in the wall. That's the be-all and end-all of my point.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The experience you shared has a factor that I think a lot of FCs these days don't have - you worked together to be able to get the house. How many FCs truly work together to do that as opposed to just one or two members footing the entire bill to purchase the plot? How many players never had to sit through the wait to get a house because the FC already had one at the time they joined?

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It's the aftermath of a change in game design.. FCs and a whole bunch of associated content long since abandoned all built around the idea of building connections and bonds between groups of players forming communities and friendships in a very group centric fashion. The idea was group goals group projects groups working together. One of the earlier concepts involved free Co.panies being able to fight and summon primals. And the effects would cover entire areas.. if you summonsed shiva in southern thanalan it would literally start to snow. Or if you summoned ifrit the sky would turn red in a blaze of fire..

They were meant to return 1.0s hamlet defence in some fashion as FC based content but that never happened either and a few other examples I can't quite recall as so many years have passed.

But then came a massive shift in direction and the game moved away from community or groups or you know an actual MMO. And instead went down the path of single player or solo centric game. Devolving FCs into nothing more than a glorified chat channel. And creating this huge issue that exists with housing as the system was designed to be community / group centric rather than a solo based game. The developers want it to be a community thing and feel like neighbourhoods but the game discourages working together and building bonds and friendships so players won't invest in anything like that..

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Originally Posted by Linadae

That's just it, Apartments COULD equal house, if SE would put in the work. I have repeatedly made the suggestion that Apartments and FC rooms should be upgradeable using gil with FC rooms having cheaper upgrades (due to the possibility of being kicked from FCs). Imagine an Apartment/FC room that over time you could expand into a small, medium, and large size house, complete with glassed in outdoor section for your outdoor furniture (like a conservatory). For the Apartments the upgraded versions could even have tenets added as you upgrade.

Hell, even have an special upgrade option either for gil or a crafted item or both that would allow you to change the view outside your conservatory. And changing the outside walls of the Conservatory will also change the inside of your apartment/fc room. So this will also rejuvenate the crafting scene as well.

This will also allow SE to just make wards with JUST apartments for the larger servers when there's not a demand world wide for more wards.

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I wish but doubt we're gonna see much of an apartment revamp. If they do though I'll be pleasantly surprised as it'll give me a reason to actually use my apartment lol.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I doubt don't that a FC house is important to some players and FCs. I do question how important one is to all players and FCs.

My own experience is that the FCs I've been in wouldn't have been any less social in the absence of a FC house. One of the FCs I was in actually spent a fair amount of time hanging around the outside of the Thaumaturge's Guild together even though we could have done it at the FC house. It's the members that create and grow the community, not the house.

The experience you shared has a factor that I think a lot of FCs these days don't have - you worked together to be able to get the house. How many FCs truly work together to do that as opposed to just one or two members footing the entire bill to purchase the plot? How many players never had to sit through the wait to get a house because the FC already had one at the time they joined?

I see FC advertise their recruitment AND mentioning a house as well but how many will end up joining those FCs because of the house? How many of those players discover the FC chat is quiet and people don't do anything together? That the house just kind of sits there unused because only the officers have permissions to decorate, garden, etc.?

Some FCs are good. Some aren't. If the FC is good then great. But as I said above, it's not going to be a house that turn a fair to bad FC into a good one,

I agree that regardless of reasons, the ward split is here to stay.

When it comes to the effectiveness of giving workshops an access point at the Grand Companies or other location, I think it would make a small difference though probably not as large as some might hope. Any house going to a player or FC that actually wants the house itself instead of just wanting access to another workshop is a plus.

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Owning a house is usually incentive for new members to join, compared to not. As much as the social aspect is the point of being in an FC (even though theres been a rise in people wishing for a single player experience), the house provides extras that you can't get anywhere else. Personally all of the FCs I've been in, including my own, have held events at the FC house rather than out in the world and it's been used as the primary hangout spot.

To put it bluntly, it shows that the FC has more to offer than one that doesn't. That's why people list it in their ad on the PF.

Side note: Not all FCs gatekeep the workshop and such from members. One in particular had a great system where you'd sign up for a "workshop group" and be given a special rank to access it. My own I let people do whatever they want in there lol, no skin off my bones if someone wants to craft something to sell.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

I really don't think it matters to the question at hand. I still doubt many FCs would give up their home for a submarine hole in the wall. That's the be-all and end-all of my point.

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It doesn't have to be a "many" to be a gain for the current situation. Not a solution, but would still get more houses in the hands of players who want a house for the sake of having the house instead of just gaining access to the features that require a house.

The same would go for gardening. Giving players an instanced area to garden the same items currently grown on house plots would take away the part of demand driven solely by a desire for gardening access.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

It's the aftermath of a change in game design.. FCs and a whole bunch of associated content long since abandoned all built around the idea of building connections and bonds between groups of players forming communities and friendships in a very group centric fashion. The idea was group goals group projects groups working together. One of the earlier concepts involved free Co.panies being able to fight and summon primals. And the effects would cover entire areas.. if you summonsed shiva in southern thanalan it would literally start to snow. Or if you summoned ifrit the sky would turn red in a blaze of fire..

They were meant to return 1.0s hamlet defence in some fashion as FC based content but that never happened either and a few other examples I can't quite recall as so many years have passed.

But then came a massive shift in direction and the game moved away from community or groups or you know an actual MMO. And instead went down the path of single player or solo centric game. Devolving FCs into nothing more than a glorified chat channel. And creating this huge issue that exists with housing as the system was designed to be community / group centric rather than a solo based game. The developers want it to be a community thing and feel like neighbourhoods but the game discourages working together and building bonds and friendships so players won't invest in anything like that..

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I don't think I've seen those types of communities form on a large scale in any MMO that didn't also include some form of world PvP so players were effectively forced to join large groups for protection against enemy players. Those communities typically revolved around that world PvP and not other content.

Of course, I haven't played every MMO there's ever been so there could have been some without world PvP that did have solid community building. Does anyone have any examples of where it did happen and work out well?

But it's really hard to create a large community that interacts without it collapsing into some sort of drama. That's why players tend to form small to medium social groups (though they'll usually belong to more than one group). It's easier to have everyone like-minded in a small group than a large group.

I think a lot of players forget that MMO doesn't mean you have be playing with hundreds of others at the same time in the same activity. It simply means there will be large numbers of players online at the same time that you might encounter and interact with. Trying to force socialization in large groups will end up backfiring. If it actually worked well, it would have long since become a standard of content design.

Speaking as someone who owned houses in the past and simply let them go way prior to this, it's crazy (and a little sad) how much drama people make over what is a useless feature that can be pretty limiting and feel unfinished sometimes. Would be wild if people put this same energy into actually demanding the battle content be made less shallow.