jusr give us a personal dps tracker

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Originally Posted by Aerixa

The only conntent where DPS meter is need is endgame raids and not even all need them just Ultimated tbh. DPS meter creats toxicit that the true and SE should never implant on

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There is nothing toxic about meters

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Originally Posted by FireMage

There is nothing toxic about meters

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There's a lot toxic about meters.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

There\\'s a lot toxic about meters.

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Prove it then

I agree it's totally ridiculous.

Saying "we're not implementing DPS meter because it can lead to harassment" is like trying to ban cigarettes or alcohol.

You can't ban it. It's simple as that. Most EX+ players have already been doing it for years anyway through an open-to-public, open-to-all-PC-players invention called FFLogs.

If there are harassment/toxic issues, they already exist and will never go away, unless someone goes and shuts FFLogs down.

It's effectively locking console players out of a DPS meter.

It's just an excuse for the devs to be lazy.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

There's a lot toxic about meters.

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A DPS parser is fetching your chat log in raw data and compiling it in an excel sheet, just in real time. We could theoretically do this without parsers, it is just massively tedious.

Is quantified damage data toxic? I better hope not.

The problem isn't parsing per se, but the fact that we are treating parsing and damage info with such malice. The knowledge of how to properly analyse combat data is being pushed in obscurity in fear of public backlash and catching the ire of the FFXIV TOS - and because of this knowledge becoming obscure, what remains is people misunderstanding the data and proceeding to misuse it, intentionally or not.

Citing a friend who has raided cutting edge in WoW a long while ago, his raid group had dedicated logs analysts and if someone who was not part of the analysts decided to give his uneducated input to literally judge anyone, they got permanently benched - they were both wrong and out of place.

Once again - parsing isn't the issue, but the lack of knowledge of how to apply parsing correctly is, thanks to being pushed into obscurity, basically the equivalent to the Dark Age messing with technological advancement.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

SSS parses are...questionable at best, for more than a few reasons

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They're not questionable They're a pretty decent tool.. What the SSS dummies do is tell you both where your potential dps should roughly be at a given ilevel. And by extention whether or not you can potentially hold your own in a piece of content ..

The idea then being SSS tells you what you are capable of. And in content it's just trying to reach that potential while dealing with mechanics..

Or to make it simpler.. SSS tells you where your personal ceiling is and where it should be at any given ilevel under optimal conditions..

What they should really do is simply make them mandatory for joining party finders. If you can't beat a dummy there's absolutely zero chance you can contribute in actual content..

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

"link numbers or gtfo"
#pf

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Honestly if the party finder was more reliable as a whole this would never be an issue. But when so many groups completely fail it's not surprising people would take steps to try and prevent there time being wasted.

They really don't though. They tell you how well you can handle a job up until minute three, and most jobs' rotations carry over to at least a six minute loop for the group "potted burst" as it were. In point of fact more than a few jobs can "cheat" that final minute by expending resources where otherwise they wouldn't where otherwise they wouldn't to finish burning the dummy down. I've personally had to train a few people out of bad habits learned in SSS.

I will not and never have denied SSS has uses, but if you're not just learning your opener and would rather just practice and learn your full loop in a vacuum, cracking open ACT and going into explorer mode is probably your best bet.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

A DPS parser is fetching your chat log in raw data and compiling it in an excel sheet, just in real time. We could theoretically do this without parsers, it is just massively tedious.

Is quantified damage data toxic? I better hope not.

The problem isn't parsing per se, but the fact that we are treating parsing and damage info with such malice. The knowledge of how to properly analyse combat data is being pushed in obscurity in fear of public backlash and catching the ire of the FFXIV TOS - and because of this knowledge becoming obscure, what remains is people misunderstanding the data and proceeding to misuse it, intentionally or not.

Citing a friend who has raided cutting edge in WoW a long while ago, his raid group had dedicated logs analysts and if someone who was not part of the analysts decided to give his uneducated input to literally judge anyone, they got permanently benched - they were both wrong and out of place.

Once again - parsing isn't the issue, but the lack of knowledge of how to apply parsing correctly is, thanks to being pushed into obscurity, basically the equivalent to the Dark Age messing with technological advancement.

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Again, I don't mind parsing, but I simply think what we have now is perfectly fine. If you wanna know your numbers run the parsing program, but its basically keep it to yourself or risk a ban. I've seen first hand how bad a completely open parsing tool is to a community in WoW. Its not good and I'm completely against having one built into the game and agree with Yoshi-P that it would lead to an extreme level of bullying/toxicity. It sucks for console players who can't gain easy access to their numbers, but at the same time this game really truly doesn't need a parser, especially if you're not doing end game...and even then, meh its not really needed. Its a nice to have kind of thing, but its not necessary like in WoW where the meta in M+ has basically been built around it. I did savage for years without ever using one and just relied on log uploads from static members that would upload them.

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Originally Posted by XmissionsX

Just make requiring to prove your dps a bannable offense.

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The same way botting is a bannable offense? SE's track record isn't so great, outside of the routinely released RMT Activity Report which claims the problem is being addressed while I routinely still see the same players botting day in and ay out.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Again, I don't mind parsing, but I simply think what we have now is perfectly fine. If you wanna know your numbers run the parsing program, but its basically keep it to yourself or risk a ban. I've seen first hand how bad a completely open parsing tool is to a community in WoW. Its not good and I'm completely against having one built into the game and agree with Yoshi-P that it would lead to an extreme level of bullying/toxicity. It sucks for console players who can't gain easy access to their numbers, but at the same time this game really truly doesn't need a parser, especially if you're not doing end game...and even then, meh its not really needed. Its a nice to have kind of thing, but its not necessary like in WoW where the meta in M+ has basically been built around it. I did savage for years without ever using one and just relied on log uploads from static members that would upload them.

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Still just brute assertion with no evidence. Thought so

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Still just brute assertion with no evidence. Thought so

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Nearly 20 years of WoW and the negative effects parsing has had on the game is more than enough evidence of why parsing should be treated the way it is in FFXIV which is essentially keep it to yourself.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Nearly 20 years of WoW and the negative effects parsing has had on the game is more than enough evidence of why parsing should be treated the way it is in FFXIV which is essentially keep it to yourself.

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There have been no negative effects though, in either game, and only positives

I've seen the negative effects of nearly 10 years of FFXIV's policies on third party tools. The sheer level of eggshells you end up needing to walk on when around people in DF and PF, providing feedback being as complex as lategame jenga lest someone take offence...

People are so afraid of being, and so guarded against toxicity that it has bred a toxicity all its own.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

There have been no negative effects though, in either game, and only positives

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Now that's a lie lol. You can spend 5 seconds on google and find pages upon pages of problems people have with parsing in WoW on the WoW forums. Its the very reason Yoshi-P has stated what he did during the live letter because he's also seen the level of negativity from parsing. The negatives FAR outweigh the positives and in FFXIV you really truly do not need to know your dps numbers to clear content.

There are very few positives in having a publicly available parser. If you're on console and you wanna know your numbers then hit up a friend on discord or use that website that calculates your SSS dps. Otherwise have at it with the said program on PC and keep it to yourself. Its perfectly fine that way. You can have your parse numbers and you can't harass others with it.

[QUOTE=Ransu;6102443]Now that's a lie lol. You can spend 5 seconds on google and find pages upon pages of problems people have with parsing in WoW on the WoW forums./QUOTE]

And it's basically people whinging that they were found to be sandbugging or holding a group back. You know, leeches. And who cares what leeches have to say?

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Originally Posted by FireMage

And it's basically people whinging that they were found to be sandbugging or holding a group back. You know, leeches. And who cares what leeches have to say?

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Because its usually not. Its usually people doing appropriate dps for that level, but because they are not uber geared and doing super dps that is commonly get kicked out even though their dps is appropriate for the dungeons level and gear level. I GUARANTEE if this game ever got a built in parser parties would be singling out blue parsers which isn't eve a bad parse, but because people are people they will want uber elite numbers and ask for purple parses that they probably don't even have.

Has any new information been posted in this thread? It seems to be largely of a repeat of previous "yoshi-p is wrong/right about dps meters" discussions.

Pretty much a FAQ entry at this point.

Creating more threads seems unlikely to change the situation in any way

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Because its usually not. Its usually people doing appropriate dps for that level, but because they are not uber geared and doing super dps that is commonly get kicked out even though their dps is appropriate for the dungeons level and gear level. I GUARANTEE if this game ever got a built in parser parties would be singling out blue parsers which isn't eve a bad parse, but because people are people they will want uber elite numbers and ask for purple parses that they probably don't even have.

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Would only be a thing for high parse groups. And none of that is remotely toxic

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Would only be a thing for high parse groups. And none of that is remotely toxic

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No it wouldn't. I guarantee it wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

No it wouldn't. I guarantee it wouldn't.

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It would. I don't think you understand that this is a two way street

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Originally Posted by Avenger

Has any new information been posted in this thread? It seems to be largely of a repeat of previous "yoshi-p is wrong/right about dps meters" discussions.

Pretty much a FAQ entry at this point.

Creating more threads seems unlikely to change the situation in any way

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yes.. the whole "dps imbalance" topic would not exist without dos parser.. , but still many have no acces to them, is that fair?

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Because its usually not. Its usually people doing appropriate dps for that level, but because they are not uber geared and doing super dps that is commonly get kicked out even though their dps is appropriate for the dungeons level and gear level. I GUARANTEE if this game ever got a built in parser parties would be singling out blue parsers which isn't eve a bad parse, but because people are people they will want uber elite numbers and ask for purple parses that they probably don't even have.

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i do not agree. , a personal dps parser can still be turned off "i dont use it, it breaks my immersion"

.. and today, noone needs to ask your dps, they just look it up on fflogs.., that won't really change

ones own dps should remain, as it is today, ones own business..

..others shouldn't ask about it, it should still and will be regarded as harassment asking for it, to do party finder or other activities

.. just because you have a personal dps parser, wont change that .., as the rules & etiquette of parser behaviour will renain

(besides, like mentioned in the other post, you can still look up fflogs.., that wont change.., so doubt anything about "asking others" will be a thing)

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Prove it then

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Easy go play with a hardcore raid team do savage and see how toxic the can get about not doing some stupid number and the not clearn the fight before he does 1 more mecha. Many Raid team did break because of dps meater if that not toxic i dont know what is. The true is this game is super easy all u need is to do Mecha right and do roations and if ilvl i higher then need one for the fight it even less work.

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Originally Posted by Aerixa

Easy go play with a hardcore raid team do savage and see how toxic the can get about not doing some stupid number and the not clearn the fight before he does 1 more mecha. Many Raid team did break because of dps meater if that not toxic i dont know what is. The true is this game is super easy all u need is to do Mecha right and do roations and if ilvl i higher then need one for the fight it even less work.

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A hardcore team requiring performing hardcore levels of performance is not toxic. What you posted was stupid, full stop

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Originally Posted by Aerixa

Easy go play with a hardcore raid team do savage and see how toxic the can get about not doing some stupid number and the not clearn the fight before he does 1 more mecha. Many Raid team did break because of dps meater if that not toxic i dont know what is. The true is this game is super easy all u need is to do Mecha right and do roations and if ilvl i higher then need one for the fight it even less work.

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Gotcha.

Okay done. None of that happened, now what?

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Originally Posted by FireMage

A hardcore team requiring performing hardcore levels of performance is not toxic. What you posted was stupid, full stop

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1st no need to call someone stupid. If u dont find it toxic then it fine. I had hardcore groups that wear normal but most of them are Toxic if u find that normal who im to judge.

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Originally Posted by Aerixa

1st no need to call someone stupid. If u dont find it toxic then it fine. I had hardcore groups that wear normal but most of them are Toxic if u find that normal who im to judge.

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I didn't call you stupid, I said what you posted was stupid. Maybe read?

raids will break either way because of dps meter, because one always dps parsers the whole group (which shouldnt be allowed without consent of other players.., but its just the reality)
.. the reality is, allowing console players to pars only their dps wont change the reality of HC statics wanting gud dps.., still any kind of harassment, asking others or talking about dps shouldn't be allowed, as it is now
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and Yoshi was recently asked what he thought about "3rd party tools", that was not really a question about dps parser, but about other 3rd party problems, he's last reply to dpa parsers was ages ago.., someone should wake him up, he doesn't see how much they are woven into the community already, big streamers have them on during raids, fflogs is used to show how we see job imbalances, how its used to improve on fights etc. etc. etc... hes gotta be ffing blind not to see how 90% of ALL RAIDERS USE THEM in on form or the other.. , , but no, console players are discriminated, wtf..
..
this topic should be up and talked a about with community strwamers too, to use them.. , our of solidarity to console playes

it's not like console players will have the parser all the time on, asking them their dps should be reported (and they can simply answer " i dont turn it on, the parser UI breaks immersion ")
.. besides why ask, just go to fflogs, there others already uploaded the console dps st some point (but than again.., console pkayers in PFs should have their full control of uploading their dps,o only theirs.. and blank out the other dps, since console parsers should only show ones own dps).
... maybe the mentally of uploaded everyones dps might even slow down, and well see less harassment from fflogs uploads

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

raids will break either way because of dps meter, because one always dps parsers the whole group (which shouldnt be allowed without consent of other players.., but its just the reality)
.. the reality is, allowing console players to pars only their dps wont change the reality of HC statics wanting gud dps.., still any kind of harassment, asking others or talking about dps shouldn't be allowed, as it is now
....
and Yoshi was recently asked what he thought about "3rd party tools", that was not really a question about dps parser, but about other 3rd party problems, he's last reply to dpa parsers was ages ago.., someone should wake him up, he doesn't see how much they are woven into the community already, big streamers have them on during raids, fflogs is used to show how we see job imbalances, how its used to improve on fights etc. etc. etc... hes gotta be ffing blind not to see how 90% of ALL RAIDERS USE THEM in on form or the other.. , , but no, console players are discriminated, wtf..
..
this topic should be up and talked a about with community strwamers too, to use them.. , our of solidarity to console playes

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Streamers have been removing the parse view from their streams because a string of streamers were getting banned for it. Yoshi-P doesn't care that people parse, but its the head hunting and spamming support is what he's trying to avoid.