Fix PLD's Rotation

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

As for FoF, I think that pre-pull is mostly for fight timing - something that can be important to have in some fights like Barbie where you have multiple instances of interruption(Hair Tethers) or flat out downtime(first transition).

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Paladin has always operated on timings and optimal rotation throughout many fights, most in general are the optimal rotation, rare cases it's the alternative.

For Barba though, it's the 16-18s pre-pull FoF.

Oookay. I see it now.
Yeah. It has a few niche useless ability like Atonement and Holy circle where I just forget about them. FoF feel odd to use sometimes. Gore dot should stack to 1min. Why 21s?

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

The game that destroyed the MMO genre used parsers

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You got me real convinced there mate. How's that working out for WoW? O-oh... yeah, haha...

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Originally Posted by Martynek

You got me real convinced there mate. How's that working out for WoW? O-oh... yeah, haha...

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Since you intend to waste time with troll posts, this is entirely inaccurate.

WOW dropped severely thanks to Blizzard not caring about it's quality of content, etc and putting cash shops in front of everyones screens in game. Nothing to do with the parser. None of them were killed by parsers, only decrepit old age, whatever you got against parsers is purely your own issue to deal with, as I said it's mandatory in the raiding community.

Now back on topic.

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Paladin can keep it's rotation, all it needs is potency tuning to make Atonement severely a lot higher in it's attack power, and tune down Holy Spirits so Atonement is the overall bigger number, Goring will hit before the raid buffs fall off. Holy Spirit numbers need cutting down to prevent GCD drifting off, skipping 1 GCD twice in a fight in SHBs actually pushed it's aDPS higher, or no skipping for full focus rDPS. All in all that's all Paladin needs, is gcd fixing. It was syncing raid buffs long before EW.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

(Clueless headcanon and "it wasn't me, honest!" shitposting about raiders somehow not being the death of every game they touch)

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ok

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Paladin can keep it's rotation, all it needs is (funamental alterations to its rotation and gameplay)

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i see, i see.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Paladin can keep it's rotation, all it needs is potency tuning to make Atonement severely a lot higher in it's attack power, and tune down Holy Spirits so Atonement is the overall bigger number, Goring will hit before the raid buffs fall off. Holy Spirit numbers need cutting down to prevent GCD drifting off, skipping 1 GCD twice in a fight in SHBs actually pushed it's aDPS higher, or no skipping for full focus rDPS. All in all that's all Paladin needs, is gcd fixing. It was syncing raid buffs long before EW.

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I actually really like PLD's rotation, and I liked Holy Spirit more when it was the same potency as Atonement. I like when PLD is mostly consistent damage with a small minor burst with Confiteor combo. I don't want PLD to be "forced" into this 2 minute party burst window, and instead would rather see the 2 minute party burst window removed and every job be more about individual rotations again.

Entirely possible reworking 2 mins in 7.0.

Not gonna lie, I kinda miss the 4 Atonement shenanigans from ShB, the timing was tight but it felt good to get the extra Atonement under FoF and dropping a Holy Spirit if I needed to stay in line with raid buffs. I'll just hope that Square keeps the 6.3 changes to a minimum, I can see them removing FoF and buffing our physical attacks to compensate. I hope that isn't the case though and I'll gladly take what Undeadfire suggested about making Atonement stronger.

I would like them to combine Skill Speed and Spell Speed as well at this point. Having two separate stats for what GCD you use makes one inherently pointless if your class doesn't make use of it, and potentially weaker than other stats if your class happens to use both weaponskills and spells. May as well combine them to a singular Speed stat so that the Requiescat phase at least benefits from the stat.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

I would like them to combine Skill Speed and Spell Speed as well at this point. Having two separate stats for what GCD you use makes one inherently pointless if your class doesn't make use of it, and potentially weaker than other stats if your class happens to use both weaponskills and spells. May as well combine them to a singular Speed stat so that the Requiescat phase at least benefits from the stat.

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A friend of mine suggested this and it's a solid suggestion if we're gonna have Melee/Casters, change it to haste.

We've been barking up that tree for years at this point. SE doesn't seem interested in doing it for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

We've been barking up that tree for years at this point. SE doesn't seem interested in doing it for whatever reason.

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Well, imagine what happened when DRKs kept barking up the tree when it came to Living Dead. It got changed eventually, but they have recognized that they need to look at actions for Tanks as a whole for 6.3 at the least. If anything, just hope that they actually fix PLD and their jankiness when it comes to Holy Spirit.

I would certainly welcome PLD being properly fixed, but I feel like I'd like the 2 min burst window gameplay loop as a whole to take a hike even more. Hopefully 7.0 redoes it all.

They should just add a 6th stack to Requiescat. Then we can cut out a Goring Blade combo and have an even 60 second rotation without skill speed.

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Originally Posted by Mithron

I actually really like PLD's rotation, and I liked Holy Spirit more when it was the same potency as Atonement. I like when PLD is mostly consistent damage with a small minor burst with Confiteor combo. I don't want PLD to be "forced" into this 2 minute party burst window, and instead would rather see the 2 minute party burst window removed and every job be more about individual rotations again.

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While this is a nice sentiment, I somewhat agree that we should avoid job design into 2 minutes, right now it's just not a realistic argument.
The only way Paladin is going to work in burst meta is to become a burst job, not like in 7.0 if they stepped away from burst meta they could revert changes and make Paladin into a more sustained job.

At this point I'd think something like fight or flight would be majorly buffed instead of something like atonement as you use atonements and stuff outside of your burst, while current FOF is more your second weaker burst right now, they could switch it with req, reduce reqs effectiveness.

While I don't like the idea that plds magic phase, the new flashy thing! is weaker It's a much better solution then reworking PLD's entire kit, like removing FOF wouldn't sit well with me.
I think what's going to happen is either FOF will be removed or changes like removing goring blade ect, a lot they could "look at" we just gotta hope it isn't too drastic but also helps address PLDS issues, we can't have PLD be a sustained job in a burst meta, we need to look for ways to get rid of "burst meta"