Island Reflections

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ameliaw

Its pretty boring. I wish the resources spent on this went elsewhere, because did this game need a "single player browser-style game"(sic) that has no connection to the rest of the game?

---

I wish the Ultimate resource spent elsewhere as well because who did that boring content really? And what's even the connection with the FFXIV story? Like, jeez.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knot_D

I wish the Ultimate resource spent elsewhere as well because who did that boring content really? And what's even the connection with the FFXIV story? Like, jeez.

---

Yeah, lets use the ultimate resources to make another clicker minigame!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rufalus

Now I'm seeing crowds of people waiting at the island ferry npc when a rare animal is about to spawn. Everyone's following a weather tracker app and loading into their instance at the correct times the same way we would gather on schedule at unspoiled nodes or big fish.

When I see crowds like that it gives me the sinking feeling of being sheep, going through the motions exactly when the game tells you, just like everyone else. It's another factor that takes away from this being a personal getaway experience that we can make our own.

---

Because people choose to go through the motions of what they think they're expected to do instead of asking "is this really what I want for myself?". It's bizarre how often I see people go "I must have it because I'm a collector" at the same time they're complaining about the required grind is for something they'll never actually use once collected. If you're not going to use it, wouldn't it be better to spend your time doing things you actually enjoy?

It's also something we wouldn't be witnessing if it weren't for the bug that keeps the ultra rare creatures from spawning correctly. You would have no idea who is trying to capture those rares because they'd be able to stay in their instance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Because people choose to go through the motions of what they think they're expected to do instead of asking "is this really what I want for myself?"

---

It's a hard mindset to break when it's a thing that's put in front of you as part of the content, and I think it can be about not wanting to do it wrong and waste effort. I slipped into thinking I needed to be chasing the rare creatures after reading a list of the "best setup" for your farm to get a balance of materials out of it, and it took a few days of chasing bugged spawns to realise that actually it doesn't matter at all and I don't even want to own most of the creatures on offer, or have plans for the items beyond "sell for cowries", making the exact variety of items irrelevant.

Hey everyone - thanks for your replies, nice to get other viewpoints. Also, I will say that I had to cull 1700 characters from the original post so some of the extra nuance was probably lost. Oh well.

Anyways, regarding the 'the devs said not to expect Animal Crossing!' I can't say that I did, nor can I say that I expected much of anything beyond 'an island you get to personalize '. So even that rather modest expectation was not delivered upon. I was also unaware that the Animal Crossing comparison was specifically mentioned - I only read the liveletters sporadically - but if you announce something like this the instant visual and mental comparison is Animal Crossing. So I appreciate that they tried to get in front of it, but that was something of a doomed effort.

Ultimately the problem isn't that it's not Animal Crossing or improved/accessible player housing, but that it's just not fun. If I had at least gotten a charming story out of my pointless and expansive collecting of mats that do absolutely nothing, I still wouldn't have been impressed with the content but I wouldn't have bothered writing up a full sheet of issues about it. Beyond that, it's almost directly opposed to the general gameplay design of FFXIV. Most of the features of this game that fall under this category promote player interaction in some aspect - zone population if nothing else. This removes players from the general world to do a long, storyless grind. And I know they've said they want people to be able to play this game as a solo experience, but things like tribal quests can absolutely do that while providing other benefits as well. There's no charm here, just mindless grinding and a tedious goods market.

This in of itself isn't a problem, and I'm sure there are some people who like this sort of gameplay so by all means enjoy, but development resources are very much a zero sum game. This could have been so many things, but it's Sim Industrial Park. And I do not understand why this was deemed a good way to spend development time.

I feel really guilty saying it but the island just depresses me. Like I try not to read into it too much but I actually feel like I've ruined the island by being there. The crafting workshops and the little schedule is cute in theory but it feel too disconnected. I've just ruined an island rampaged around it ripping branches off trees on the way past, crammed a bunch of disparate wild animals into an open pen so they can get hoofrot in the endless rain as they just stand in their own leavings until their absentee captor finally returns.

Pointless mechanised production.

A bathtub for robots??

Who's eating all that tomato relish I made?

Implement a rewilding option. Let me bleed the island enough for the blue cowries and then let me give it back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raoabolic

SE: Don't expect a replacement for housing
SE: Don't expect Animal Crossing

Gee, SE, what should I expect then? At this point I expect nothing and still get a half baked idea. lol

---

I expect logical and common sense but I am often disappointed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OgruMogru

I feel really guilty saying it but the island just depresses me. Like I try not to read into it too much but I actually feel like I've ruined the island by being there.

---

I get that feeling too. I started up the sanctuary on a second character that may want the motorbike mount (Twelve save me) and there's this lovely wild tangle of jungle plants directly opposite the hideaway that gets erased while you're off gathering your first lot of materials and turned into the blank space for building your workshops. And every step of the way is "you should delight in tearing out these trees" (which apparently go to waste because we get zero logs out of it and are then obliged to go cut down even more trees elsewhere).

I was also disappointed to find that "completing" the animal enclosure meant tearing out the thicker of trees that was providing shelter for them and leaving a great empty paddock of nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Because people choose to go through the motions of what they think they're expected to do instead of asking "is this really what I want for myself?". It's bizarre how often I see people go "I must have it because I'm a collector" at the same time they're complaining about the required grind

---

Well yes you can choose to do nothing, collect nothing. I'm just saying if you do want to collect those things, that is the way they are designed, you watch the clock. I'm not a fan of timer content that tells people to be at X position at X time.

My preference would be having X number of opportunities to see something each day and you can do that at any hour you have available to play. In this island content example, it could give you 3 special lures each day, like some luring scent item you can use whenever you feel like and it attracts rare animals which you then have an opportunity to catch. That way you don't feel like so much of a drone waiting for the specific hour you're allowed to click something.

That's what I used to imagine gathering content would be like. They almost did with the favors system in Heavensward but it had some flaws and was later removed. You spent scrip tokens to spawn your own hidden nodes at any time. People just didn't like the time-reward balance and the RNG of getting a variable number of rare spawns.

I think that's fine if it's rewarding enough and generates a fixed amount of rare nodes and doesn't take too long. I like it better than the unspoiled node design, the loop of constantly teleporting to different zones at specific times. I'd rather gather some rare stuff in a more flexible way, then trade it for the crafting mats I want at a vendor.

I don't hate the island, but I don't -like- the island. I wish you could customize it more and that there were a lot of less mammets, but that is just the small stuff to me, the thing that bugs me most is that the green shells are just freaking pointless. Like you made a second currency that you basically do nothing with except to get glamour prisms or dispellers that you already can easily get alongside cordials for gathering. I kind of wish you can get some other items with it idk what, but something to make them more worth while....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

I get that feeling too. I started up the sanctuary on a second character that may want the motorbike mount (Twelve save me) and there's this lovely wild tangle of jungle plants directly opposite the hideaway that gets erased while you're off gathering your first lot of materials and turned into the blank space for building your workshops. And every step of the way is "you should delight in tearing out these trees" (which apparently go to waste because we get zero logs out of it and are then obliged to go cut down even more trees elsewhere).

I was also disappointed to find that "completing" the animal enclosure meant tearing out the thicker of trees that was providing shelter for them and leaving a great empty paddock of nothing.

---

Ahaha turns out the animals clipping into the locked pasture zone was just them desperately seeking shelter under some sparse leaves. It's stressing me out more than it should though and I think I'm just going to end up turning all my animals loose because I can't stand the little UI actively tracking how unhappy they are. :C

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

I get that feeling too. I started up the sanctuary on a second character that may want the motorbike mount (Twelve save me) and there's this lovely wild tangle of jungle plants directly opposite the hideaway that gets erased while you're off gathering your first lot of materials and turned into the blank space for building your workshops. And every step of the way is "you should delight in tearing out these trees" (which apparently go to waste because we get zero logs out of it and are then obliged to go cut down even more trees elsewhere).

I was also disappointed to find that "completing" the animal enclosure meant tearing out the thicker of trees that was providing shelter for them and leaving a great empty paddock of nothing.

---

Huuh? But this is the island of your dreams! You don't want to build stables or any sort of shelter for yourself or animals. It's your dream island, you obviously want buildings for mammets and to go absolute Dead Ends with deforestation and improvements for Tataru's business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

DEVs: "Don't expect Animal Crossing".
Players: "Why isn't this Animal Crossing?"
It's like a skit. I swear.

---

This is a strawman argument and not a particularly clever one. Most people weren't expecting Animal Crossing, Stardew Valley, or a replacement for housing. At first, nobody really knew what to expect because the devs were radio silent for so long about hard details (which should have been a big red flag for people). Using "dont get your hopes up" as your big pitch is also a red flag.

When people do mention those games, its in the context of "this is what makes those games fun, and Island Sanctuaries doesn't have that, so what does it have?" with the sad obvious answer quickly materializing as "not much".

Rewards: they offer two hairstyles as rewards and they BOTH have to be ponytails? Like...really?

Thematics: the mammets are obnoxious and unwanted. I feel like I'm running a clone factory. Why exactly do I have to pay them in shells? What do they do with them? Somehow a relaxing paradise turns *very* quickly into an offshore labor camp mass-producing cheap items for sale in Limsa. Just a strange design choice. I guess I have to give the mammets rest days so that I don't have to construct nets in the stairwells.

Does anybody regularly visit other people's islands? Why would you? Theirs will look almost the same as yours because there's very little ability for customization at all. Some of the buildings that have second stories don't...have stairs. They have nonfunctional ladders.

Just a lot of weird design choices, and all I'm left thinking is: I wish they'd just focused whatever effort they spent on this on expanding the functionality of apartments. That would have been so much better for the game and the communities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feron

Just a lot of weird design choices, and all I'm left thinking is: I wish they'd just focused whatever effort they spent on this on expanding the functionality of apartments. That would have been so much better for the game and the communities.

---

How would they improve the functionality of apartments and how would it be better for communities? The communities seem to be doing fine, with plenty of spaces to do pretty much anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freeflare

Beyond that, it's almost directly opposed to the general gameplay design of FFXIV. Most of the features of this game that fall under this category promote player interaction in some aspect - zone population if nothing else. This removes players from the general world to do a long, storyless grind. And I know they've said they want people to be able to play this game as a solo experience, but things like tribal quests can absolutely do that while providing other benefits as well. There's no charm here, just mindless grinding and a tedious goods market.

This in of itself isn't a problem, and I'm sure there are some people who like this sort of gameplay so by all means enjoy, but development resources are very much a zero sum game. This could have been so many things, but it's Sim Industrial Park. And I do not understand why this was deemed a good way to spend development time.

---

The charm is getting away from the other people and having a nice quiet space where I don't have to read someone's dumb advertisement for a venue or gil sales. It's ironic that this strikes a nerve as you're playing a game that removes you from people interaction. It doesn't really go against the gameplay design and it's well in line with the story. You, the only warrior of light on the Source, have earned yourself this opportunity to enjoy some quiet time alone.

The activities are not for everyone, but there are plenty of people who like to do the simple harvesting activities. I happen to be one of them. It's more fun than gathering in the open world as we're not just going in some triangular pattern. I think it's great to be able to hop into a PF or a long queue and have something to do to kill time that I can just drop at a moment's notice.

As for why this was deemed a good use of dev time, I can only imagine there was some feedback somewhere at some point. The idea has been floating around for a while, apparently since before Shadowbringers. Perhaps they finally found the time to do it. It's not like it's taking away from anything else. Some might say another expo zone, but that needs a rest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feron

Does anybody regularly visit other people's islands? Why would you? Theirs will look almost the same as yours because there's very little ability for customization at all.

---

Starting the island a week later, I initially visited my friends island just to see what it would look like at certain ranks. Other than that, yeah there is no reason to.

The landmarks could be a place to RP. I personally love the tree house and it could be a nice dating spot with my partner.
But then you have the mammets...

https://i.imgur.com/sxDwwBR.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feron

This is a strawman argument and not a particularly clever one. Most people weren't expecting Animal Crossing, Stardew Valley, or a replacement for housing.

---

...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freeflare

A more genuine Animal Crossing experience would have been great.

---

Hi. it was mentioned specifically in both cases.


Is the content perfect or even engaging to most people? Nope.

However the complaints being leveled in many cases are either gripes that it isn't .. well.. animal crossing, or that it's not an entire set of standalone content with engagement for weeks.

Both of which miss the entire point.


There are lots of things to improve and I hope the content gets developed for a while, but when I see people specifically say things like that repeatedly? Yep, gonna say something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

That's totally unrelated to what I'm saying.

---

Every time I log out from the lighthouse I come back at the same point. Sorry I didn't add this true finding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

I get that feeling too. I started up the sanctuary on a second character that may want the motorbike mount (Twelve save me) and there's this lovely wild tangle of jungle plants directly opposite the hideaway that gets erased while you're off gathering your first lot of materials and turned into the blank space for building your workshops. And every step of the way is "you should delight in tearing out these trees" (which apparently go to waste because we get zero logs out of it and are then obliged to go cut down even more trees elsewhere).

I was also disappointed to find that "completing" the animal enclosure meant tearing out the thicker of trees that was providing shelter for them and leaving a great empty paddock of nothing.

---

I don't see it that way. Aethereal regeneration happens every 11 nodes, so the trees grow back quickly, same goes for animals we catch they are replaced quickly don't over think it have fun, I do. I am there 8hrs a day. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sagacious

Every time I log out from the lighthouse I come back at the same point. Sorry I didn't add this true finding.

---

Then you've somehow found the one seat in the zone that is permanent, because I've had no such luck. Whether I leave my character dozing on the bed, sitting in the hammock chair, sitting outside the windmill gazing at the ocean... every time I log back in she's dropped somewhere randomly on a path, presumably outside the bounds of the replaceable "block" she was situated in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sagacious

I don't see it that way. Aethereal regeneration happens every 11 nodes, so the trees grow back quickly, same goes for animals we catch they are replaced quickly don't over think it have fun, I do. I am there 8hrs a day. :)

---

It's not a matter of whether the gathered trees regenerate or not. The hideaway is permanently torn down from being thick with trees to a bland open space full of buildings, whether you want it or not.

And if a game sets me the goal of looking after animals, then I expect to be putting them in a place that meets their needs. The pen could so easily have trees, a stable, a pond and a rock pile for the coblyns, but we just dump them all on featureless grass and feed them cabbages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boblawblah

DEVs: "Expect a casual experience"

DEVs: "here is an extreme grind that will force you to look up guides to get the rewards before the next tier of rewards is released and you're way behind"

Let's not pretend it's exactly what the devs said to expect.

---

there's only a grind if your one of those people who wanted to max it within the first week. all the rewards are shown on the vendor from the start (with one exception unlocked at rank 10), there is nothing you need a guide for except the rare animals (which don't offer anything different than regular ones, just aesthetics)

I like it, as busywork when im not doing anything else. Doesn't really feel like my own relaxing Island paradise tho. Feels more like a slave Labour camp for the primal Tataru Taru. A toggle for the mammets would be nice.

Also the rewards doesnt go away people. Not sure how its possible to be "left behind". Just go at your own pace ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by einschwartz

The landmarks could be a place to RP. I personally love the tree house and it could be a nice dating spot with my partner.
But then you have the mammets...

---

This comment explained a lot for me. SE obviously wants to discourage ERP in the Hideaway.

I sincerely hope in the next update to IS that we can build a place that will be an actual home for the WoL (even if it can't be decorated housing style) and mammets will be prohibited.

I also wonder how the JP player base is getting along with the plethora of mammets. It will help if many of them have the same complaint.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

This comment explained a lot for me. SE obviously wants to discourage ERP in the Hideaway.

I sincerely hope in the next update to IS that we can build a place that will be an actual home for the WoL (even if it can't be decorated housing style) and mammets will be prohibited.

I also wonder how the JP player base is getting along with the plethora of mammets. It will help if many of them have the same complaint.

---

If you think an audience/being watched will stop people from ERPing...lmao. Highly encourage you to do some research on the term Exhibitionist in the fetish sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

I also wonder how the JP player base is getting along with the plethora of mammets. It will help if many of them have the same complaint.

---

This is just from quick lurking on JP forums from highly upvoted comments using translator, take it with grain of salt:

Seems like JP is onboard with too much mammets, no feeling of inhabited island and lack of customization. They also expected more casual and relaxed atmosphere instead of factory/management simulator, even though many like the management simulator.

There are also suggestions for:
- more active minigames like fishing or cooking (fishing specifically is mentioned frequently)
- possibly some RNG elements when gathering
- weather forecaster
- color coded node marks and other small QoL changes
- more uses of green cowries, including conversion of cowries
- customization in general (dyes, rotate buildings, stairs for windmills)
- personal house dedicated to player, not just weird shop with bed
- change orchestrion on the move
- sprint on/off
- gather materials when you're on friend's island
- retainer bell
- improvements for controllers

They seem to also talk about caves under island, which would be logical new expansion to the island. Some would prefer if areas of the island could be unlocked later, instead of being able to go anywhere from the start (with few areas that you can reach only with flight).

It's exactly how I expected it to be. I've only done a little in there but already figured out that it wasn't going to be as customizable as people were hoping. So I'm playing the content as intended: very slowly and as filler when I have nothing better to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scruit_Bigtime

there's only a grind if your one of those people who wanted to max it within the first week. all the rewards are shown on the vendor from the start (with one exception unlocked at rank 10), there is nothing you need a guide for except the rare animals (which don't offer anything different than regular ones, just aesthetics)

---

I've been picking at this every several days, and I still have to gather from one. node. at. a. time.

That's a grind no matter what angle you come at it with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheSuperior

I've been picking at this every several days, and I still have to gather from one. node. at. a. time.

That's a grind no matter what angle you come at it with.

---

So is everything else in an MMO. :p
You can let it bother you or you can accept reality. ^_^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

DEVs: "Don't expect Animal Crossing".

Players: "Why isn't this Animal Crossing?"



It's like a skit. I swear.

---

Reminds me of housing:

Devs: Lottery won't solve housing supply.
Players: Why doesn't lottery solve housing supply!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

It's not even about difficulty. It's that it is gameplay that I find unappealing, and everything on "my" island points to it whether I want it to or not.

My house is full of mammets. My private treehouse and bathhouse are full of mammets.

Every building on my island revolves around the business of constructing goods, fetching materials at an industrial scale, or keeping the workers happy. The courtyard is full of clanking noises from the machinery.

All I needed was a private island with a building all to myself and some basic "A or B" choices about my decor, and instead I have an industrial complex.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheSuperior

Huuh? But this is the island of your dreams! You don't want to build stables or any sort of shelter for yourself or animals. It's your dream island, you obviously want buildings for mammets and to go absolute Dead Ends with deforestation and improvements for Tataru's business.

---

Yeah, SE totally missed the goal of Island Sanctuary being a casual,relaxing experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TwistedTea

Yeah, SE totally missed the goal of Island Sanctuary being a casual,relaxing experience.

---

No. The players did. They don't know how to relax. This can all be enjoyed without spreadsheets, weather forecasts or movement macros.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

No. The players did. They don't know how to relax. This can all be enjoyed without spreadsheets, weather forecasts or movement macros.

---

and it can be enjoyed with spreadsheets, weather forecast and movement macros to finish faster and ride a motorcycle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

No. The players did. They don't know how to relax. This can all be enjoyed without spreadsheets, weather forecasts or movement macros.

---

People are doing those things because the systems in place lend towards those behaviors. Plus, the island isn't an inherently robust experience and a lot of people are only doing it to get the rewards they want as fast as possible so they can pretend it doesn't exist.

Wow, you'll really throw whatever out there, even if it's exactly what I replied to. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

No. The players did. They don't know how to relax. This can all be enjoyed without spreadsheets, weather forecasts or movement macros.

---

They literally put a spreadsheet (the stock popularity thing) in the game itself as a core part of how you're supposed to run your island industry.

When I gripe about spreadsheets I don't mean consulting them outside of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

They literally put a spreadsheet (the stock popularity thing) in the game itself as a core part of how you're supposed to run your island industry.

When I gripe about spreadsheets I don't mean consulting them outside of the game.

---

Soooo you want us to have no idea how to make good profits using the in game spreadsheets? We have to go outside the game to satisfy you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sagacious

Soooo you want us to have no idea how to make good profits using the in game spreadsheets? We have to go outside the game to satisfy you?

---

I never said any of that.

I simply object at a base level that my "relaxing tropical island" revolves around something better associated with office work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

I never said any of that.

I simply object at a base level that my "relaxing tropical island" revolves around something better associated with office work.

---

Don't you understand that the relaxing starts at level 10 when you've cultivated, pasteurized, and tamed the island first. As a warrior of light you should expect no less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sagacious

Don't you understand that the relaxing starts at level 10 when you've cultivated, pasteurized, and tamed the island first. As a warrior of light you should expect no less.

---

To be frank, saying that as what I'd expect if I were the warrior of light, I'd expect the ungrateful asses from the Eorzea Alliance to give me a nice place for saving them over and over, without work involved. This is a gift from Tataru, but she could give us a house building kit at least, since she expects us to do all this work anyway

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ameliaw

To be frank, saying that as what I'd expect if I were the warrior of light, I'd expect the ungrateful asses from the Eorzea Alliance to give me a nice place for saving them over and over, without work involved. This is a gift from Tataru, but she could give us a house building kit at least, since she expects us to do all this work anyway

---

But didn't you see the scions all bored as f? Wanting action and wanting to go do something? Did you think us warriors of light immune to these impulses? tataru knows us and knows this is what we would like to do. We, warriors of light, love hard work to achieve great ends. We've carried rocks, wood, water, animals, and protected the many with ease and love. I love what the people have done. Give me a whole island of my own to tame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

I never said any of that.

I simply object at a base level that my "relaxing tropical island" revolves around something better associated with office work.

---

Except it doesn't? That's a player choice to make it revolve around "office work". You can earn cowries without touching the workshop.

Creature Leavings? 12 cowries each. If you average 30 leavings a day, that's 360 cowries per day.

Grown Crops? 4-6 cowries each. If you grow the premium crops, that 580 cowries every 2 days after the seed fees.

Rare materials from the Granary? 25 cowries each or 200 cowries a day after deducting the foraging fees if your Granary is level 3.

At 750 Cowries a day, you'd have the entire Isle Explorer's set in 20 days, a hairstyle in 8 days, a Mandragora mount in 16 days, etc. All at a nice slow leisurely pace without touching a spreadsheet.

It's a much slower way to earn the cowries but it can be done.