"Melee jobs" in Frontlines

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Yes, some DR for melee makes sense, however not a flat rate for each melee job. Rather than changing DR due to this, i would prefer that SE created/improved the Frontlines and Rival Wings tutorial for new players. Unfortunately I don't think they will

I also disagree with the position of balancing that based upon whether people are struggling because whether they are new or not "hardcore". There is no gear that blocks someone from PVP in this game, they can just jump right in and they could be in the same match as someone who has played 1000 matches. I have no problem with that, in fact as someone who had to grind without end to get the best PVP in other games I think it's great- but I do expect that the veteran players will likely wipe the map with the newer players. That also means that the people that may join only once in while are likely not going to do as well as those players who PVP every day for a variety of reasons (no focus, not looking at their map, not knowing their skills, etc).
That's no more "hardcore" that those people who have a static for savage or unreal content. It wouldn't be seen as normal to ask for balance change for players who never do that level of content to PVE skills - you are applying the same type of request in PVP.

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I like your view on this. Thanks

Even though I do miss collecting gear to use in pvp, I know it was for the best to remove it.

Gathering gear from different parts of the game and getting all your accessories correct so you would survive a melee limit break in the old 8v8 arenas was still some of the most fun I've had in ffxiv. Jobs had their full kits, you could que with friends, and it was just great.

Oh and frontlines could que with just 24 people at odd hours of the night instead of the que just going dead at midnight. Pretty much the height of ffxiv pvp. I really hate to say it, but It's all been going downhill since they removed most of our abilities after heavensward. I like the rework, but it will never be as deep as the old system was.

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Originally Posted by RydiaFey

Oh and frontlines could que with just 24 people at odd hours of the night instead of the que just going dead at midnight. Pretty much the height of ffxiv pvp. I really hate to say it, but It's all been going downhill since they removed most of our abilities after heavensward. I like the rework, but it will never be as deep as the old system was.

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Oh yeah! I didn't even notice them phasing out 8v8v8 frontlines

Well think they should remove 3 grand company battle, and just make it 2 like how rival wing is, so rival wing can join in the random frontline roulette que.

Don't call for 2-sided battles if you aren't certain what it really means... Be happy it's 3-sided with all the casuals going in.

24er frontline was removed due to 8er premades running amok inside.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Yes, some DR for melee makes sense, however not a flat rate for each melee job. Rather than changing DR due to this, i would prefer that SE created/improved the Frontlines and Rival Wings tutorial for new players. Unfortunately I don't think they will

I also disagree with the position of balancing that based upon whether people are struggling because whether they are new or not "hardcore". There is no gear that blocks someone from PVP in this game, they can just jump right in and they could be in the same match as someone who has played 1000 matches. I have no problem with that, in fact as someone who had to grind without end to get the best PVP in other games I think it's great- but I do expect that the veteran players will likely wipe the map with the newer players. That also means that the people that may join only once in while are likely not going to do as well as those players who PVP every day for a variety of reasons (no focus, not looking at their map, not knowing their skills, etc).
That's no more "hardcore" that those people who have a static for savage or unreal content. It wouldn't be seen as normal to ask for balance change for players who never do that level of content to PVE skills - you are applying the same type of request in PVP.

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Frontlines and Rival Wings are meant to be casual. If they don't appeal to casual players, they fail. The only thing keeping frontlines up is it's own roulette. Someone going in the first time and not understanding why their bard deals no damage, despite hitting buttons, is an issue.

On the other hand, SE is much better off tuning CC in a more competitive direction, including being able to demote in plat, gold, and silver. Right now it's hardcore pvpers that are starting to leave ranked games more and more.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Frontlines and Rival Wings are meant to be casual. If they don't appeal to casual players, they fail. The only thing keeping frontlines up is it's own roulette. Someone going in the first time and not understanding why their bard deals no damage, despite hitting buttons, is an issue.

On the other hand, SE is much better off tuning CC in a more competitive direction, including being able to demote in plat, gold, and silver. Right now it's hardcore pvpers that are starting to leave ranked games more and more.

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You just provided the example of someone going in as a bard and not understanding why their buttons don't deal any damage. As I said in my first paragraph, it would be helpful to have a PVP tutorial to explain various concepts, among the the PVP skills. It would be useful not only for sprouts, but those returning players who jump back into PVP without bothering to read patch notes and then don't understand why all of their skills are gone.

That sounds more like a sad excuse to dunk on the newbs, while requiring little skill.

Ninja's a low risk high reward job, top damage top kills all just by spamming aoes from a safe distance and dive in to pick easy below 50% with the LB reset. Meanwhile dancer gets torn to pieces for daring to try and land those 15 yalms range moves.

Melee is so overtuned rn that if you play something like MCH you might as well be griefing lol, plus you're effectively free BH for any melee who focuses you, while you tickle them back.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

I do think in large scale modes melee should have some damage reduction. I get by just fine on ranged, but I can see those new to frontlines/rival wings and people that are not hardcore pvpers struggling with it. If they changed the damage reduction from 30% to 20% and to 15% for NIN (not DRG since it nerfs itself already), that would balance it much more. Right now you can have a team of four PLD (nothing wrong with that) and stay alive quite a bit. DRK would also be slightly less meme.

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instead of the DR they should have just let us keep our ranged attacks lol

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Originally Posted by Bissonnettzi

Ninja's a low risk high reward job, top damage top kills all just by spamming aoes from a safe distance and dive in to pick easy below 50% with the LB reset. Meanwhile dancer gets torn to pieces for daring to try and land those 15 yalms range moves.

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yeah I tortured myself by playing dnc in frontline for a bit and it’s just… actually hilarious at times. and whenever I see a dnc it’s literally a free kill, but they are rare in frontline. NIN is so broken in it I absolutely love it lol. like easy 20-30 kills a game

To me the only jobs that feel TOO durable are Paladin, Dark Knight and Ninja.

PLD and DRK because they can go invincible for 10 seconds which is just insane for how often LB comes up in Frontlines. They can disrupt an entire enemy team and you can't do anything about it because they're just invincible. IMO the invuln should just be changed to a very heavy shield (like 100% HP or something) so that it can be broken with enough damage.

Ninja because they have so many defensive and escape options it's ludicrous. It seems like almost nothing can stop a ninja from getting away if they want to. Between Shukuchi, Huton and Meisui it feels like it takes so much to bring down a Ninja.

I'm fine with the other melees. If anything, I would probably elect to slightly buff the defenses of ranged jobs rather than nerf melee defenses. Or if melee defense IS nerfed, it should be slight, not how it was before. When playing melee you need to be able to pop out of your team's blob to do anything (unless you're a ninja which is basically a pseudo ranged), but doing this makes you a target, and you need defense to do this without being instantly shredded. Melee DPS was borderline unplayable before the defense buffs because as soon as you separated from the blob of ranged classes you got targeted and bursted down.