Hello Yoshi-P

If healer dps isnt counted in clearing fights and dps checks. Why cant they have actual rotations. You would simply just need to make it where casting a GCD heal doesnt break combo.

However the change people want for healers wont be addressed until 7.0 if at all.

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

I think their plan is to eventually blur the lines in the holy trinity (or remove it altogether) to try and appeal to the most people as possible, plus because they have so many jobs now, it would probably make balancing easier, because I don’t think they have a big budget or big developer team?

There’s also something someone might have said, that they don’t want to put all the pressure on healers, so that’s why healer’s dps buttons are very little and why they have crazy ogcd healing buttons, and why they’ve given raises to dps jobs.

However with this “healers must dps” mantra, they’ve ended up creating a mind set of “oh I must dps as much as I can and heal only in emergencies” and it’s created the “healer parse” culture and a really boring 1 1 1 1 role where you’re barely healing and bored out of your mind pressing 1 1 1 1. Also for bad healers, they get 1 1 1 1 tunnel vision whilst their group is dying all around them because the mindset isn’t heal first.

*grumbles about scripted incoming party damage which makes healing really boring*

Healers are neither dps jobs first, with healing buttons, or healers first, with dps buttons. They’re no longer a defined thing as part of the trinity.

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I think you may have missed a few stereotypes, or excuses for bad designs,, but probably not.

Let's check them off:

1- they don't have a big enough budget - not my problem
2- they don't have enough designers - definitely not my problem, this game is successful, they keep adding jobs, they should able to to have a dedicated designer as the game grows
3- bad healers let people die because they keep hitting 1 too often. Umm, no. bad healers are bad for many reasons, including being AFK, including NOT DPSing. People can also die such as (DPS) because they stand in the bad to0 much.
4- healers need a "heal first" mindset. Partially true on that one but again damage being scripted, not so much, true in that people make mistakes.

Finally, to your last statement, a healer in FFXIV (for myself) should have more heals and utility than a tank or a DPS, but do less DPS as a consequence than a DPS. Whether than ends up being 14 utility skills and 10 DPS skills - just throwing that out OR 16 utility and 8 DPS - whatever- as long as the end result works well (those are just random numbers)

Yeah, bad healers are bad for many reasons, but I was illustrating one of the common things bad healers do. I’ve experienced the tunnel vision dps healer quite a number of times in savage and ex trials.

I didn’t say the first two points were anyones problem, just that they might be contributing factors. This game will have a certain budget and a set priority for delivery, fixing healers apparently isn’t one of them.

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

Yeah, bad healers are bad for many reasons, but I was illustrating one of the common things bad healers do. I’ve experienced the tunnel vision dps healer quite a number of times in savage and ex trials.

I didn’t say the first two points were anyones problem, just that they might be contributing factors. This game will have a certain budget and a set priority for delivery, fixing healers apparently isn’t one of them.

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If the dmg rotation wasn’t so mind numbing boring healer dps would actually have to pay attention and not drool on the keyboard or fall asleep mid gameplay. People don’t mention that as a factor in why they let others die

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Originally Posted by Mortex

If the dmg rotation wasn’t so mind numbing boring healer dps would actually have to pay attention and not drool on the keyboard or fall asleep mid gameplay. People don’t mention that as a factor in why they let others die

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Same reason why I had to stop playing warrior. I actually died regularly on weekly clears because the gameplay made me zone out and die to nonsense like E5S' knockback. And while I find warrior's gameplay to be so incredibly basic that it makes me lose focus, it is still nowhere near as bad as healer gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Same reason why I had to stop playing warrior. I actually died regularly on weekly clears because the gameplay made me zone out and die to nonsense like E5S' knockback. And while I find warrior's gameplay to be so incredibly basic that it makes me lose focus, it is still nowhere near as bad as healer gameplay.

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It’s sad that the only interesting part about the healer kit comes out when your party fails mechanics and you have stuff to do, if it’s not a dumb one shot like every other mechanic in savage fights. It’s just so dumb and yet you still have healer who can’t press 2 buttons as a damage “rotation”, these crayon eating curebots.

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Originally Posted by Derio

If healer dps isnt counted in clearing fights and dps checks. Why cant they have actual rotations. You would simply just need to make it where casting a GCD heal doesnt break combo.

However the change people want for healers wont be addressed until 7.0 if at all.

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The irony is they said it’s not counted in fights but the sad reality is you can’t clear the higher floor savages fights without healer dps. And we still have the most basic snooze inducing damage “rotation” in the entire game.

Or they don’t do it because it’s boring? I don’t blame them for watching Netflix when they have such non engaging gameplay…. The dev team has failed healers for the last two expansions. Make the class regarding and dynamic and people will be invested and new people will pick it up

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Originally Posted by Derio

However the change people want for healers wont be addressed until 7.0 if at all.

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And this is how this cycle continues. We wait until the next expansion for our big healer changes, they never happen, and then we're told that we need to wait for the next expansion for anything to change again, repeat.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

And this is how this cycle continues. We wait until the next expansion for our big healer changes, they never happen, and then we're told that we need to wait for the next expansion for anything to change again, repeat.

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I for one look forward to the next repetition of the "just wait until the expansion drops", "just wait until you try it", "just wait until max level", "just wait until the raids come out" cycle. It's the exact same every time. And we end up being right about how stupid their design directions are every single time.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

The irony is they said it’s not counted in fights but the sad reality is you can’t clear the higher floor savages fights without healer dps. And we still have the most basic snooze inducing damage “rotation” in the entire game.

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The people that keep using it also need to be aware of that this statement was from the Heavensward media tour and is now many years old. Besides, it also was said that healer dps wasn't factored in on average gear levels - minimum/ close to minimum ilvl needs it and they acknowledged that.
Many things get brushed aside as "This was said years ago" but for some reason this statements gets taken as absolute gospel whenever the healer discussion and healers should dps gets brought up. Every single time.

We're long past the stage of "nobody needs healer dps, it doesn't get factores in hurrdurr" as it has been proven several times that some floors were impossible to clear without even if the healer still used their raid buffs and everyone else played at 99 percentile.
And other floors were unclearable unless everyone at least played mid purple. Hardly something you can ask of every group for the sake of letting the healers enjoy some afk time. Healer dps is necessary and a factor but a rotation that reflects that apparently not.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

The people that keep using it also need to be aware of that this statement was from the Heavensward media tour and is now many years old. Besides, it also was said that healer dps wasn't factored in on average gear levels - minimum/ close to minimum ilvl needs it and they acknowledged that.
Many things get brushed aside as "This was said years ago" but for some reason this statements gets taken as absolute gospel whenever the healer discussion and healers should dps gets brought up. Every single time.

We're long past the stage of "nobody needs healer dps, it doesn't get factores in hurrdurr" as it has been proven several times that some floors were impossible to clear without even if the healer still used their raid buffs and everyone else played at 99 percentile.
And other floors were unclearable unless everyone at least played mid purple. Hardly something you can ask of every group for the sake of letting the healers enjoy some afk time. Healer dps is necessary and a factor but a rotation that reflects that apparently not.

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I remember when they made this statement and it was like literally the same week that the community proved that A4 was mathematically impossible week one even with perfect performance from all 8 players so it was basically tone deaf at the time and has since been taken out of context so many times that any meaning it did have has long since gone