Lottery Screenshot Speaks for Itself...

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I am doing no such thing. That is quite the enormous reach on your part. Nonetheless, the whole lottery system exists entirely due to the lack of supply. If they addressed that larger issue sooner, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Hence why everything they're doing in yet another band-aid in the grand scheme of things. The lottery itself never needed to exist if housing as a whole wasn't a terribly designed system they've clung to for the better half of nearly a decade.

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I would like to reiterate that these are two SEPERATE ISSUES. Related, yes, but still separate. The first, and smaller of the two, would have continued to be a problem, even if additional housing was introduced, as long as supply was outstripped by demand. It is entirely conceivable that the developers might never be able to catch up to demand. In that light, it may be unreasonable of us to expect the developers to solve the second issue in one go. Better that the first issue is resolved now, while we wait for the developers to work on the second issue (if they ever will).

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

lottery is a tax on stupid people, and here we have 540 stupid people
don't bid on it, don't buy into it, don't participate

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So you'd rather spend 36 hours clicking on a sign?

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Originally Posted by Ransu

So you'd rather spend 36 hours clicking on a sign?

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I can't help but wonder how many of these people who want the old placard system back were using third party bot programs to do the work for them and they resent losing that advantage.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

So you'd rather spend 36 hours clicking on a sign?

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At most one would click is about 12 hours, statistically the window for a plot to open up was about 8 hours.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

I would like to reiterate that these are two SEPERATE ISSUES. Related, yes, but still separate. The first, and smaller of the two, would have continued to be a problem, even if additional housing was introduced, as long as supply was outstripped by demand. It is entirely conceivable that the developers might never be able to catch up to demand. In that light, it may be unreasonable of us to expect the developers to solve the second issue in one go. Better that the first issue is resolved now, while we wait for the developers to work on the second issue (if they ever will).

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Games with less of a budget and significantly less revenue than FFXIV have managed to implement better housing systems. Even games older than FFXIV. I'd like to point out Square Enix hasn't stopped bragging FFXIV is their highest profitable title outside of mobile games. So... let's not make excuses for the multi-billion dollar corporation. The dev team simply likes the neighborhood system and I suspect there's a sunken cost fallacy going on as well.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

So you'd rather spend 36 hours clicking on a sign?

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Personally, I'd rather the house flippers back. I got my first house back then for a gross overpayment of 10M for a small. But I got a house. Nowadays, if I were to ever lose my medium, I basically have no chance of ever getting another unless I transfer to the new DC or they add more wards in two years.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Games with less of a budget and significantly less revenue than FFXIV have managed to implement better housing systems. Even games older than FFXIV. I'd like to point out Square Enix hasn't stopped bragging FFXIV is their highest profitable title outside of mobile games. So... let's not make excuses for the multi-billion dollar corporation. The dev team simply likes the neighborhood system and I suspect there's a sunken cost fallacy going on as well.



Personally, I'd rather the house flippers back. I got my first house back then for a gross overpayment of 10M for a small. But I got a house. Nowadays, if I were to ever lose my medium, I basically have no chance of ever getting another unless I transfer to the new DC or they add more wards in two years.

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I don't want the house flippers back. They're the reason why we have the lotto in the first place, so people all have an equal shot at getting a house, not the people using third party software.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Games with less of a budget and significantly less revenue than FFXIV have managed to implement better housing systems. Even games older than FFXIV. I'd like to point out Square Enix hasn't stopped bragging FFXIV is their highest profitable title outside of mobile games. So... let's not make excuses for the multi-billion dollar corporation. The dev team simply likes the neighborhood system and I suspect there's a sunken cost fallacy going on as well.

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For the purposes of what this game is it doesn't matter what other game makers have done. It only matters what SE has done and is willing to do. No matter what they decide to do, they simply can not implement any changes overnight. Any changes they make, should they decide to do so, will take time. During that time, it's better to have a system of allocation that is fair to all players. If housing ever becomes available to ALL players, then yes the Lottery might no longer be needed. Until then it is vital to keep it in order to make access to housing fair to all.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

For the purposes of what this game is it doesn't matter what other game makers have done. It only matters what SE has done and is willing to do. No matter what they decide to do, they simply can not implement any changes overnight. Any changes they make, should they decide to do so, will take time. During that time, it's better to have a system of allocation that is fair to all players. If housing ever becomes available to ALL players, then yes the Lottery might no longer be needed. Until then it is vital to keep it in order to make access to housing fair to all.

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That sounds like a band-aid when you put it that way. Fixing a small issue to compensate for the larger issue. Arguing about semantics which don't matter at all aside, I agree, we need to focus any housing ire at the people responsible, SE. This is 100% the fault of the people who made the decision to continue down the path of wards instead of accepting that it has turned into a failure and correcting the ship instead of doubling down.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

For the purposes of what this game is it doesn't matter what other game makers have done. It only matters what SE has done and is willing to do. No matter what they decide to do, they simply can not implement any changes overnight. Any changes they make, should they decide to do so, will take time. During that time, it's better to have a system of allocation that is fair to all players. If housing ever becomes available to ALL players, then yes the Lottery might no longer be needed. Until then it is vital to keep it in order to make access to housing fair to all.

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Actually, it does matter. Game developers learn from what other games have done, what was popular with their players and what didn't really work.

FFXIV probably wouldn't exist today if YoshiP hadn't studied WoW for what made it successful and incorporated some of those elements into ARR.

It's true that changes can't be made overnight, but when it comes to housing the problems with the system have never been invisible. SE has addressed some of those problems but others remain. What's making the supply problem especially severe at this point was the explosive growth in player population that couldn't have been predicted in advance.

Who knew that WoW players would get so fed up with the game that they would actually give that weeb game they were frequently mocking a try? Who could have predicted COVID would be a global pandemic forcing workers to stay and looking for something they could do at home with all the lockdowns in place?

But SE had to know by end of Heavensward that the ward system buckles under the weight of even a slowly growing player base. They added wards, they added a completely new housing district and still demand overtook the supply quickly. They easily could have looked to other MMOs with housing and seen their systems had no problems with population growth because they were using instanced systems that could accommodate every player. While true some of those games have since died, they didn't die because of the housing systems.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...352981/231.PNG

This is the last small house for private wards on Faerie. 231 people and this is day one.

I don't see how this isn't more... concerning to people I guess? How people thing the state of housing is okay. 231 people on Day One. 2-3 Mediums available.

As for our FC -> Personals that are going to swap soon, I'm laughing already in anticipation of how fast it will go.

At least I know this time that if I do participate, I'll have better chances at worse grade plots, but at this point for me I'm very, very swiftly losing a lot of love for the neighborhood wards.

Ppl in this thread acting like you couldnt just "X X down down X" while watching netflix on the other screen lol, insinuating the only way to do it was to use an auto clicker. Just cause you didnt want to put the effort in doesnt mean everyone who did cheated to do so. You couldve had 1/4 odds on a house, afking in the process, and in the pursuit of "fairness" now you're dealing with 1/200 odds, which will proceed to climb higher over time. Enjoy :)

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Originally Posted by Lustre

Ppl in this thread acting like you couldnt just "X X down down X" while watching netflix on the other screen lol, insinuating the only way to do it was to use an auto clicker. Just cause you didnt want to put the effort in doesnt mean everyone who did cheated to do so. You couldve had 1/4 odds on a house, afking in the process, and in the pursuit of "fairness" now you're dealing with 1/200 odds, which will proceed to climb higher over time. Enjoy :)

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Clicking took more often than not TEN HOURS or more on an invisible timer. People have jobs, kids, pets, other obligations. That is not sustainable for anyone. "you didnt want to put the effort in doesnt mean everyone who did cheated to do so." I'm glad you had the time, energy, and lack of obligation to maintain that, but not everyone did. It is very tone deaf to sit and say people didn't put in enough effort into a system that was pretty actively wasting people's time because botting was so rampant.

The placard clicking didn't work, but this lottery system doesn't work for different reasons. Feels entirely like an artificial supply issue.

In my opinion, it should be fair. There is very little logical reason housing needs to be this limited when they advertise it as much as they* do.

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Originally Posted by Lustre

Ppl in this thread acting like you couldnt just "X X down down X" while watching netflix on the other screen lol, insinuating the only way to do it was to use an auto clicker. Just cause you didnt want to put the effort in doesnt mean everyone who did cheated to do so. You couldve had 1/4 odds on a house, afking in the process, and in the pursuit of "fairness" now you're dealing with 1/200 odds, which will proceed to climb higher over time. Enjoy :)

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The placard timer was a variable ratio experiment in real time and encouraged unhealthy behaviors linked to gambling addiction. It hopefully will never return.

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Originally Posted by Lustre

You couldve had 1/4 odds on a house

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Maybe if you were on a JP world. I don't think JP players understand how congested all of the NA worlds are. NA populations are double the JP populations. SE had to give up marking any of our worlds as Congested because they are all Congested. It's not unusual for them to restrict character creation to a single world per data center during our peak playing hours.

Competition for houses on NA worlds was much higher when placard camping was a thing. You were lucky if you were only competing against 20 others. There was one day I went by a small plot that was available and there were so many players present they wouldn't all render at the same time (they would appear and disappear as I moved around, same as what is sometimes seen at crowded hunt trains). Players could spend 6 hours a day camping for weeks and still not get a plot.

That was still better than the odds of getting a plot now, but it was also a loss of a considerable amount of time that could have been spent playing the game or doing things away from the controller/keyboard.

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Originally Posted by ballprince

Clicking took more often than not TEN HOURS or more on an invisible timer. People have jobs, kids, pets, other obligations. That is not sustainable for anyone. "you didnt want to put the effort in doesnt mean everyone who did cheated to do so." I'm glad you had the time, energy, and lack of obligation to maintain that, but not everyone did. It is very tone deaf to sit and say people didn't put in enough effort into a system that was pretty actively wasting people's time because botting was so rampant.

The placard clicking didn't work, but this lottery system doesn't work for different reasons. Feels entirely like an artificial supply issue.

In my opinion, it should be fair. There is very little logical reason housing needs to be this limited when they advertise it as much as they* do.

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Only dumb people clicked for more then 2 Hours on the Placard. Everyone else had knowledge about the "Bell Curve" Prime Time.

Most of the plots could be narrowed down to a frame within 4 hours (so called "Prime Time") where most of the Plots were opening for a successfull buy.
There would be outlier but a large amount of them were buyable within this certain timeframe.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

Only dumb people clicked for more then 2 Hours on the Placard. Everyone else had knowledge about the "Bell Curve" Prime Time.

Most of the plots could be narrowed down to a frame within 4 hours (so called "Prime Time") where most of the Plots were opening for a successfull buy.
There would be outlier but a large amount of them were buyable within this certain timeframe.

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The high and mighty attitude is weird. And rude. I know plenty of people who clicked longer than that.

There is no defending a system like that to me. It was an awful system that did nothing to stop botters, and did nothing as far as "fairness" over first come first serve, it only rewarded people in the right time and place.

I didn't even mention the relocating people could do. Relo a plot where everyone has been clicking for however long, get it instantly. New plot opens, yeah, but it's an entirely restarted timer.

"Only dumb people" sounds like people you don't agree with. Maybe open your world view a little bit and not be so rude next time. What you and others know is not always the same.

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Originally Posted by ballprince

The high and mighty attitude is weird. And rude. I know plenty of people who clicked longer than that.

There is no defending a system like that to me. It was an awful system that did nothing to stop botters, and did nothing as far as "fairness" over first come first serve, it only rewarded people in the right time and place.

I didn't even mention the relocating people could do. Relo a plot where everyone has been clicking for however long, get it instantly. New plot opens, yeah, but it's an entirely restarted timer.

"Only dumb people" sounds like people you don't agree with. Maybe open your world view a little bit and not be so rude next time. What you and others know is not always the same.

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You can call me rude. I still stand what I wrote. Yes, the Placard clicking was god awful. But People who wasted 12 hours at a Plot clicking?
No pity for those if they could have invested 5 Minutes of this time for research and openly available information to get better chances at winning even with clicking.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

Only dumb people clicked for more then 2 Hours on the Placard. Everyone else had knowledge about the "Bell Curve" Prime Time.

Most of the plots could be narrowed down to a frame within 4 hours (so called "Prime Time") where most of the Plots were opening for a successfull buy.
There would be outlier but a large amount of them were buyable within this certain timeframe.

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That only worked if you knew when the plot popped. On my server, there often was six or more hours between searches, and it was unclear when the plot came up to start the timer. Also, the four hour window often extended much longer, which was the worst.

I hated the endless clicking, used no bot, but happily got a sweet mist small. I clicked for over 80 hours total and I know that was low. I got lucky.

The only solution here is for adequate wards available to support the population. There seems to be server space for new data centers, so, it is unclear what the hold up is.

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Originally Posted by Lustre

Ppl in this thread acting like you couldnt just "X X down down X" while watching netflix on the other screen lol, insinuating the only way to do it was to use an auto clicker. Just cause you didnt want to put the effort in doesnt mean everyone who did cheated to do so. You couldve had 1/4 odds on a house, afking in the process, and in the pursuit of "fairness" now you're dealing with 1/200 odds, which will proceed to climb higher over time. Enjoy :)

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Spoken like someone who's still young lol.

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Originally Posted by SerenityLuministia

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...495a5aa3e1.jpg

Hyperion, Last Private Medium House on Server
Over 540 Entries for 1 House

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Well yeah, that's one of the best plots in the game

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I was one of those people.
I kept telling others that lotteries would only decrease the chance of getting a place. But those that didn't wanna put a little work in would stick their fingers in their ears and want to hear none of that logical forward thinking nonsense!

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I disagree, the bots alone made "putting work in" redundant. Sitting at a placard clicking all day is not "putting work in" it was a complete waste of time.

I would give up my large house for this property.

When they had instant relocation I offer quite a few people 200 million Gil for the property and no one took me up on the offer.

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Originally Posted by SerenityLuministia

Hyperion, Last Private Medium House on Server
Over 540 Entries for 1 House

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So I would have had 1 chance in 90 of winning, if I'd entered six times like I did last cycle.
That's not too bad IMO.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

So I would have had 1 chance in 90 of winning, if I'd entered six times like I did last cycle.
That's not too bad IMO.

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you honestly think one out of 90 players getting a house of the size they want is "not too bad" ? whatever it is you're taking, hand me some.

SquareEnix logic:
We have 10 houses with an average of 120 bids on each house last round. 1200 people means 1190 people don't get one that round. This bid, houses opened up and 4 are available with an average number of 250 bids per house. That's 1000 bids - less than last round's 1190 - so success!

Better than player logic: lottery will get me the house
But ignore the fact this only brings out all potential competitors

Honestly?

I wish the housing supply was more "mobile"; that is to say Relo being turned back on and trading off property. I know people are afraid of housing flippers and I think if there was a effective way to regulate it - would you pay up to x2-3 times a plots cost if you were assured to get it?
You also need to better restrain home ownership - ditch the FC/Personal concept as 2 separate things...you get 2 homes; you set it as a personal or a FC and have a timer on how frequently you could set it.
Make a bunch of wards - its not like they are going to go to waste; DO NOT have them available in advance - instead add 3-4 wards at a time; I feel the housing issue is largely because its not being watched nearly close enough as I strongly doubt allowing people to own entire wards was EVER a intention. I suggest adding wards instead of instances because if we have made peace with the notion that resources will be available for it - I would rather then do not cheaper the system with instancing - especially with IS comming anyways.

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Originally Posted by ijuakos_xqwzts

SquareEnix logic:
We have 10 houses with an average of 120 bids on each house last round. 1200 people means 1190 people don't get one that round. This bid, houses opened up and 4 are available with an average number of 250 bids per house. That's 1000 bids - less than last round's 1190 - so success!

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Look at the OP's picture. 547 people want that plot. How many are outside clicking a placard for hours on end?

Zero.

That's what the lottery system was designed to fix. And it did. If anyone thought the lottery system would address the housing shortage, they'd be the same kind of people that think adding gasoline to a car with a flat tire will fix it.

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Originally Posted by ijuakos_xqwzts

SquareEnix logic:
We have 10 houses with an average of 120 bids on each house last round. 1200 people means 1190 people don't get one that round. This bid, houses opened up and 4 are available with an average number of 250 bids per house. That's 1000 bids - less than last round's 1190 - so success!

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lol we have ZERO houses this round. They really need to fix their system.