Did SE finally killed Windows 7?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krojack

Every time I see comments like this I can't help but wonder what people are doing to their computers. While I'm not a fan of some of the systems they put in newer Windows, I have had no problems with Win10. I think people just install garbage programs and over time it just borks their system. That or just run weird hardware that has unstable software or drivers.

But yeah, 5 different computers (3 desktops and 2 laptops) all completely different hardware and never had a problem on any of them.

---

Since upgrading to windows 10 (and then 11) I have had a grand total of 2 Green screens of death (the NEW BSOD). Both caused by a failing video card. Windows 7 I had quite a few BSODs and the majority of them never really figured out what happened. BSOD, reboots, works fine from there.


EDIT: Wait I had one more GSOD on Windows 11 because it couldn't connect to my linux shares and had a bug that they fixed next patch cycle (I run pre-releases of Win11).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seera1024

Here's one:

Using programs that are known to have major issues even installing onto the newer OS's much less running.

I still enjoy playing older games that pre-date Windows 7. Games that I'm not ready to put down.

I do also understand the security risks and the fact that one day, current games may stop working on my PC due to an update. And I've already had one instance of I can't play something due to my OS being too old and I'm just fine with that because I knew the risk going into it.

But I'm also not going to just upgrade just because I got an error message. I'm going to attempt fixes. Computers aren't cheap. Especially right now with all the shortages. I'm hoping my computer lasts until we pass the worst of the shortages so that I'm not paying too much extra.

---

I play a ton of old games on win11 just fine...Compatibility mode now a days is way better than it was when it was implemented into win7.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MiaShino

Sometimes you wish to play Dragon Age Origins or something else without spending hours diagnosing obscure nonsense issues. Artifacting and crashing issues abound on Windows 10. Runs flawlessly on Windows 7.

---

Still load up and play DA:O on my windows 11. Doesn't need any tweaking. Just install, run and play. Same with KOTOR and KOTOR2. I haven't run into any game that I can't open easily except Starlink. That game requires virtualization to be turned off. That would cause issues on ANY OS for me. I am a mobile developer and need virtualization for testing purposes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

I play a ton of old games on win11 just fine...Compatibility mode now a days is way better than it was when it was implemented into win7.

---

And the games I play have a mixed history of working or not with Windows 10, much less Windows 11.

The main game that I'm worried about had it's last EP released in 2008. Windows 7 was launched in 2009. The base game was released in 2004.

Yes, I might have absolutely no issues besides getting the game to recognize my graphics card; but at the same time, I could stumble into the one combination of stuff that means I can't play the game anymore and no fixes will consistently work if they work at all. And that's not currently a gamble that I want to make, no matter how rare of a chance that that may be. Hopefully, I get to choose when I get to make that gamble and not have it forced on me by computer breakage. I have decided that when the time comes for me to buy a new computer that it will be at least Windows 10.

I have my reasons for staying. They may not be a reason strong enough for you to stay on an outdated OS, and that's fine. I also wouldn't be complaining on a game or software company's forum stating that it was the company's fault that I can't play their game or use their software anymore because they released an update that removed the ability to play on Windows 7. So if the fixes posted hadn't worked for FFXIV and the update really did mean I couldn't play FFXIV anymore, then I'd be upset, but I wouldn't blame SE at all for it. I go into updates like this knowing that if I lose the ability to play, it's my fault for being on an outdate OS that's no longer supported.

i have the windows 7 64 ver and so far no log in problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

Still load up and play DA:O on my windows 11. Doesn't need any tweaking. Just install, run and play. Same with KOTOR and KOTOR2. I haven't run into any game that I can't open easily except Starlink. That game requires virtualization to be turned off. That would cause issues on ANY OS for me. I am a mobile developer and need virtualization for testing purposes.

---

Gonna be pressing X on this one or you are incredibly lucky. Have not encountered one person who does not run into issues running all three of those games on modern os with modern hardware. Entire first Joshstrife stream of Dragon Age was nothing but crashing. LAA patch assists but is not perfect.

The sheer number of issues I have encountered running old software on modern operating systems is not worth the trouble for me. Easier to dual boot or VM older OS.

KOTOR 2 crashed on XP pretty consistently all on its own back when I first purchased it.. If you are having no instability issues with that game send me your secret sauce because I need that in my life. Game is not exactly known for being optimally coded.

Heck! Aliens Vs Predator 2 requires dgvoodoo2 else there are graphical bugs for me on Windows 10. Runs flawlessly on my Windows 7 and windows 8.1 installations (sometimes I dust off my old P4 system for those really really temperamental games.. Bloodrayne enters the mind).

Not even going to get into the legacy software that I keep around for the interacting with old mechanical equipment.

Many apologies but there is no way in seven hells I am deploying Windows garbage 11 on any of my machines. They get the Linux or the older Windows OS treatment. If I require more up to date Windows it happens tucked away in a VM where I can promptly disable it when tis no longer needed and go back to pretending it does not exist.

Jeeez my poor older all in one I use for streaming media in the bedroom lacks proper driver support for Windows 10 (legacy intel igpu). I lose all quicksync and gpu encoding support on that platform if I upgrade it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seera1024

snip

---

Could set up dual boot with Windows 7 if you ever require Windows 10 - 11 support or DX12. Tis pretty easy to do. Orrrr hardware pass through on a VM is always option if you have a decent system and spare time to learn how to set one up.

Wish I had no issues running certain stuffs on a modern OS. That is just not the reality I nor anyone I know lives in. Thank the twelve for phils computer lab and his dedication to backing up old drivers, he saved my booty when I was hunting down drivers for my ancient Yamaha sound card. Hardware OPL3 and OPL2 especially anything made by Roland sounds soooooo much better (even if the emulated options have come long long way).

im running windows 11 and have had no issues, but then again im running intel 12th gen and a 3080 Ti lol

Windows 10 no issues.

I get people have reservations about 10, honestly it's not bad at all. If you are worried about telemetry or the store being on it, you can deal with those and there are even powershell scripts out there that "decrapify" W10 with a single copy/paste.

Mind you this is really a 32-bit issue and there is no reason you should still be on 32-bit, we started to transition to 64-bit in early Vista days (XP had it but yeah who even KNEW about it let alone used it?). It's many cycles of OSes later.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarevok_Thordin

Windows 10 no issues.

I get people have reservations about 10, honestly it's not bad at all. If you are worried about telemetry or the store being on it, you can deal with those and there are even powershell scripts out there that "decrapify" W10 with a single copy/paste.

Mind you this is really a 32-bit issue and there is no reason you should still be on 32-bit, we started to transition to 64-bit in early Vista days (XP had it but yeah who even KNEW about it let alone used it?). It's many cycles of OSes later.

---

And with OpenShell you can get the Windows 7 look&feel back. :)

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

I use it and i do not miss Windows 7. But Windows 10 runs slower. It needs waaay longer to start.



Cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

And with OpenShell you can get the Windows 7 look&feel back. :)

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

I use it and i do not miss Windows 7. But Windows 10 runs slower. It needs waaay longer to start.



Cheers

---

SSDs are amazing, W10 takes about 10 seconds from cold to start, that's with a SATA SSD. m.2 will probably knock a bit more off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

And with OpenShell you can get the Windows 7 look&feel back. :)

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

I use it and i do not miss Windows 7. But Windows 10 runs slower. It needs waaay longer to start.



Cheers

---

It takes mine 5 - 10 sec to start (windows 10) what kinda Ssd/m.2/sata are u using.

But windows 7 piff true masters use Xp professional its the only true god XD it's been painful finding all the components for that but it's sits on the shelf working perfectly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I can't wait for Windows 13, which will be a hallway and people will hate it, only to develop a cult following in the next decade.

---

And of course, the very first version of Windows 14 will be the arguably the single worst OS ever made. But once the first major service pack comes out...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

And with OpenShell you can get the Windows 7 look&feel back. :)

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

I use it and i do not miss Windows 7. But Windows 10 runs slower. It needs waaay longer to start.



Cheers

---

That sounds like something with your PC, because win10 on a ssd starts in like 5 seconds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johners

Waiting for the day they drop PS4 support, that'll start bigger discussions on the forums.

---

I would hope that they wait until people can reliably get their hands on a PS5 before that happens

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SieyaM

I would hope that they wait until people can reliably get their hands on a PS5 before that happens

---

They already said that PS4 will be supported in 7.0. No telling how long it will be supported after that, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fayt1203

It takes mine 5 - 10 sec to start (windows 10) what kinda Ssd/m.2/sata are u using.

---

And that is the issue. You solve the problem of slowish software by buying faster hardware. :) Try it with a PC from the year 2009. And you will notice, that Windows 10 starts much slower than Windows 7. It is the same with Teams or Slack. A very slow chat app, which needs 500 MB RAM because it has an embedded Chrome browser. And how do people solve the terrible performance? With Quadcore CPUs, SSDs and 32 GB RAM. :)

Cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

And that is the issue. You solve the problem of slowish software by buying faster hardware. :) Try it with a PC from the year 2009. And you will notice, that Windows 10 starts much slower than Windows 7. It is the same with Teams or Slack. A very slow chat app, which needs 500 MB RAM because it has an embedded Chrome browser. And how do people solve the terrible performance? With Quadcore CPUs, SSDs and 32 GB RAM. :)

Cheers

---

Its 2022, why are you still using a spinning drive?

Unless you're using something like optane to cache data your bootup time is going to be slow on both OS's with a HDD, but win10 fast boot feature is still going to make it boot a few seconds faster than 7's outdated quick boot feature.

Also, Windows 10 came out in 2015. Of course its going to be slower on outdated hardware from 2009. That's just how hardware and software works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Its 2022, why are you still using a spinning drive?

Unless you're using something like optane to cache data your bootup time is going to be slow on both OS's with a HDD, but win10 fast boot feature is still going to make it boot a few seconds faster than 7's outdated quick boot feature.

Also, Windows 10 came out in 2015. Of course its going to be slower on outdated hardware from 2009. That's just how hardware and software works.

---

not to be impolite but don't act that way/say things like that to people who may not have access to better hardware. you don't know their situation and if square felt having an SSD or some other solid-state solution was the only way to go then they could easily force that in the system requirements. it's also fairly common for japanese players to only own a PC for basic word processing/spreadsheets (if they're not playing on a console) since gaming PCs aren't (or, weren't... it's very, very slowly changing) really a thing there.

also the term you're looking for is "mechanical" not "spinning".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lieri

True gamers use Windows Vista, the beta version.

---

You misspelled windows 11^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denji

not to be impolite but don't act that way/say things like that to people who may not have access to better hardware. you don't know their situation and if square felt having an SSD or some other solid-state solution was the only way to go then they could easily force that in the system requirements. it's also fairly common for japanese players to only own a PC for basic word processing/spreadsheets (if they're not playing on a console) since gaming PCs aren't (or, weren't... it's very, very slowly changing) really a thing there.

also the term you're looking for is "mechanical" not "spinning".

---

No one should still be using hardware from 2009 and SSD's are dirt cheap now.

Also, the way HDD is referred to is interchangeable. I have friends in IT that call them spinners, others call them hard disks. I refer to them as spinning disks because that's literally what they are. I can't stand the term mechanical.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

No one should still be using hardware from 2009 and SSD's are dirt cheap now.

---

My desktop is about 7 years old and has a SSD and a larger HDD in it. The SSD is relatively small - small enough that I have to be careful with what I have on my C Drive.

My second drive is a HDD because I couldn't justify the money it would have taken to buy a comparable SSD in size to the HDD at the time of purchase.

At this point, unless an upgrade is like $5, the next time my computer needs an upgrade to do something, that something will have to wait until I get a new computer. Yes, I know drives would be compatible, but the whole transferring of files from one drive to the next is tedious especially since I've got software installed on it.

Not everyone has an endless amount of money with which to buy luxury items. And a computer capable of gaming is a luxury item. Some of us have to weigh what luxury items we want with our necessary purchases like food and shelter.

At this point there's no convincing some people about security. Win7 is NOT supported except for the odd high profile security fix. Go ahead, run it, claim any excuse you want but MS was GIVING away a modern, secure OS for years and you didn't take it, now many are crowing on about costs and luxuries. Running a patched, secure OS is a GD responsibility, not a luxury. Not only are you putting your own data (and probably financials/identity) at risk, but everyone you deal with whilst using compromised machine. You are not some kind of old school hero, you guys are the bread and butter of every scammer and bad actor out there. Win7 is STILL one of the most targeted OS's due to the amount of even more irresponsible businesses and institutions still running it. FFS a local bike shop around here just had their ass handed to them financially because of a ransomware attack. PoS terminals all ran win7, all data lost because no back ups. INSURANCE DID NOT COVER THE LOSSES. I mean, I do understand your objections but most, if not all the issues around 10 have been resolved, just as they were with 7, and it was vilified just as much as 10 was. And yes, DA:O runs just bloody fine on 10...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

Second, PS4 isn't even holding back the game right now, Lower end PCs are ultimately what are holding back the game (well, the engine is). There would need to be a HUGE amount changes to a HUGE amount of things for 7.0 to come anywhere near the limits of the PS4. look at Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Red Dead Redemption II, God of War, Uncharted 4. FFXIV has a lot of room to improve before it hits the limits of the PS4.

---

The average skirmish around an S-Rank mob in a current zone involves far more combatants than any fight I can think of in the FF7 Remake. I would lay solid odds that if there are limitations the PS4 imposes on the client, they're along the lines of "how many active entities -- e.g., PCs, mobs, whatever can move around and engage in combat -- can be instanced in a given radius before they need to be culled."

The PS4 has 8GB of RAM, which I believe is shared between the CPU and GPU -- meaning that 8GB of RAM also needs to function as texture and graphics buffer memory; I can absolutely believe they might run into issues there with regards to how many players are packed into a relatively small space when Chi is up in Ultima Thule or whatnot.

I do agree with you that the PS4 is not the main constraining factor on keeping any chunks of the engine from being updated; the potato end of the supported system specs on PC is a good chunk of the problem... and to be honest, the state of the macOS client (e.g., the Windows client running through at least one and possibly two translation layers for logic, and two more translation layers for every graphics call) almost certainly does not help matters.

But I don't think that it's impossible that the PS4 is a constraining factor on improving the client. Just not the main one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arrhin

At this point there's no convincing some people about security. Win7 is NOT supported except for the odd high profile security fix. Go ahead, run it, claim any excuse you want but MS was GIVING away a modern, secure OS for years and you didn't take it, now many are crowing on about costs and luxuries. Running a patched, secure OS is a GD responsibility, not a luxury. Not only are you putting your own data (and probably financials/identity) at risk, but everyone you deal with whilst using compromised machine. You are not some kind of old school hero, you guys are the bread and butter of every scammer and bad actor out there. Win7 is STILL one of the most targeted OS's due to the amount of even more irresponsible businesses and institutions still running it. FFS a local bike shop around here just had their ass handed to them financially because of a ransomware attack. PoS terminals all ran win7, all data lost because no back ups. INSURANCE DID NOT COVER THE LOSSES. I mean, I do understand your objections but most, if not all the issues around 10 have been resolved, just as they were with 7, and it was vilified just as much as 10 was. And yes, DA:O runs just bloody fine on 10...

---

This x1000

If you're running win7 for backwards compatibility with certain softwares then dualboot. I ran my old PC build with a cheap $5 win10 license off of alibaba with no issues, if cost is your concern.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Its 2022, why are you still using a spinning drive?

Unless you're using something like optane to cache data your bootup time is going to be slow on both OS's with a HDD, but win10 fast boot feature is still going to make it boot a few seconds faster than 7's outdated quick boot feature.

Also, Windows 10 came out in 2015. Of course its going to be slower on outdated hardware from 2009. That's just how hardware and software works.

---

I use SSDs, except my external HDD for backups. ;) But i have to disable quick start because it causes issues from time to time. And without quick start, Windows 10 starts not so fast. A Linux desktop starts way faster from a HDD than Windows 10 from a SSD. And that is a thing i do not like. ;)

And the funny thing is, Microsoft forces OEMs to make a SSD as a boot device:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/mi...11-pcs-by-2023

I guess, they exactly know, that Windows 11 is extremly slow without proper hardware. And imagine how fast it would start when it would be as fast as Windows 7. But they would have to disable the whole telemetrie stuff, which runs in the background.



Cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Yepp, Final Fantasy on an IBM mainframe rocks! :D


Cheers

---

In the future we will use quantum processors with terminals for unlimited power!!!!!! <3 kupo jk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I use SSDs, except my external HDD for backups. ;) But i have to disable quick start because it causes issues from time to time. And without quick start, Windows 10 starts not so fast. A Linux desktop starts way faster from a HDD than Windows 10 from a SSD. And that is a thing i do not like. ;)

And the funny thing is, Microsoft forces OEMs to make a SSD as a boot device:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/mi...11-pcs-by-2023

I guess, they exactly know, that Windows 11 is extremly slow without proper hardware. And imagine how fast it would start when it would be as fast as Windows 7. But they would have to disable the whole telemetrie stuff, which runs in the background.



Cheers

---

Linux is a barebones OS, of course it loads fast.

Windows 7 uses telemetry too...

I think some people stuck on Windows 7 just like to make up things about Windows 10 or 11 and it shows.

Windows 10 is leaps and bounds a completely different animal than it was in 2015, and Windows 11 is even better (auto HDR among other things)


As for PS4, it'll get one more expansion at minimum. Just like all games, support is mainly driven on Sony supporting the hardware and when they stop producing them, which is targeted at end of 2022 is when the clock begins to tick. That puts it around 2025-2026 being pulled from XIV, plenty of time for the PS4 apologist to realize it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I use SSDs, except my external HDD for backups. ;) But i have to disable quick start because it causes issues from time to time. And without quick start, Windows 10 starts not so fast. A Linux desktop starts way faster from a HDD than Windows 10 from a SSD. And that is a thing i do not like. ;)

And the funny thing is, Microsoft forces OEMs to make a SSD as a boot device:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/mi...11-pcs-by-2023

I guess, they exactly know, that Windows 11 is extremly slow without proper hardware. And imagine how fast it would start when it would be as fast as Windows 7. But they would have to disable the whole telemetrie stuff, which runs in the background.



Cheers

---

Well of course Windows 10 and Windows 11 are going to run slower than older OSs on outdated hardware. They have more added in, more processes being done, and were not optimized for that hardware. Both windows 10 and Windows 11 were built to be run on SSDs and are optimized for it where as Windows 7 was still optimized for HDDs. This is merely just a statement of 'it runs worse when I run it on things that are less than the minimum specs and older than what it is designed for compared to an OS that the hardware meets the min specs for and on hardware that it was designed for' is purely asinine.

That said, the day was coming. 32 bit should have been dead in the water a long time ago, and even Microsoft has stopped supporting Win7 and most new games don't support it. Things change, and we have to adapt.

Edit: fixed my terminology cause brain don't wanna work this early.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I use SSDs, except my external HDD for backups. ;) But i have to disable quick start because it causes issues from time to time. And without quick start, Windows 10 starts not so fast. A Linux desktop starts way faster from a HDD than Windows 10 from a SSD. And that is a thing i do not like. ;)

---

Windows 10 started in 30 seconds on my HDD, and was usable within 1 minute after startup. Switching to a Win11 PC with an SSD, and it starts in 10 seconds. If 1 minute and 30 seconds is slow, or 10 seconds is slow, then I believe the problem might exist between the screen and the chair.