They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

He's not really wrong. You can think he's wrong but it doesn't make you right
Others in this thread have stated multiple valid reason for why it's a bad idea.

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Make it against the rules to ask for DPS numbers or discriminate based on them, ban people who do, boom problem solved.

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If that request is made in discord, how can that rule be enforced. It cant be as theres no proof. All it does is create more grief, and more work for the staff who have god knows enough to deal with as it is.

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Originally Posted by Klytania

An officially supported damage meter should be added, there is no good argument against this. All they need to do is allow people to simply set their damage to private if they can't handle potential criticism or just don't want to mess with it. Same way they did with the adventure plates.

They could even implement the feature with "private" as the default setting.

The information is already flowing that's how the current plug-ins work. All SE would need to do is add an in-game GUI that allows you to access it.

Being able to break down your damage and stats in a meaningful way is basically standard for most games like this, and it's insane that a game as big as XIV just ignores it. There are people I know who I keep trying to get into this game, but they won't because it is missing so many basic features like this.

Virtually nobody would quit because a damage meter was added (as much as they scream on twitter to the contrary, they won't). But more people would be interested in the game if it was updated this way. It's a net positive.

Edit: Since these forum uses an obscenely moronic design of locking you to 20 posts a day, I will stick to editing the OP.

I'll be excited to see what non-grey parsers think about this

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You can already make yourself private with ACT so they wont have logs online, I am fine with how it is currently as it works well with xivanalysis as well to help you further improve.
I think a personal DPS meter would be fine but I can agree with Yoshi P, if you show everyone's DPS is will cause nothing but problems.
Allowing players to not be parsed wouldn't help out to ensure you are meeting DPS checks anyways as you need the total DPS to know if you are going to meet it or not.
At minimal I think our stats should show us the weight they have towards increased dmg, crit chance dh chance ect.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Actually, yeah that would be a good idea. Too many people abuse it and put requirements that are way higher than they need to be. You don't need 590+ ilvl to farm Zodiark EX, people were farming it comfortably before that level of gear was even out.

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Disagree, unless they change savage to have an Ilvl requirement to enter this needs to stay as I am pretty sure savage does not have an ilvl requirement to enter. I may be wrong though it's been a minute since I even looked to see if there is one.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

If it's only personal, and then on top only active in Savage/Ultimate and at training dummies, fine.

But for the sake of baby kittens, it must not be available in anything EX and lower. I've lost count of the times that people are calling others out in a normal mode dungeon. Seriously. It really doesn't matter if the Ninja is doing less than the WHM in Aurum Vale.

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Shibi, a few days ago a friend of mine told me of a guy spamming dps numbers and hurling abuse.

IN SASTASHA.

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I'll be excited to see what non-grey parsers think about this

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..this comment really doesnt help your case.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

..this comment really doesnt help your case.

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He just proved, again, that what I said is true.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Disagree, unless they change savage to have an Ilvl requirement to enter this needs to stay as I am pretty sure savage does not have an ilvl requirement to enter. I may be wrong though it's been a minute since I even looked to see if there is one.

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Savage has an ilvl requirement. You need 570-575-580-580 respectively to enter Asphodelos Savage.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

If it's only personal, and then on top only active in Savage/Ultimate and at training dummies, fine.

But for the sake of baby kittens, it must not be available in anything EX and lower. I've lost count of the times that people are calling others out in a normal mode dungeon. Seriously. It really doesn't matter if the Ninja is doing less than the WHM in Aurum Vale.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Shibi, a few days ago a friend of mine told me of a guy spamming dps numbers and hurling abuse.

IN SASTASHA.

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I don't believe either of these, and want SS as proof.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Savage has an ilvl requirement. You need 570-575-580-580 respectively to enter Asphodelos Savage.

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Okay, I believe you then I honestly have not even looked at the savage ilvl requirement since ARR coil, which didn't even have savage. I've always been savage ready when it comes out.

Edit: Comfirmed you are actually incorrect about savage ilvl requirement. Cause I didn't really believe you...
Item level restrictions do not apply when registering as a full party.

The Ilvl requirement you listed, is to join through the duty finder, which no one in NA uses.

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I don't believe either of these, and want SS as proof.

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Sorry, but no screenshots were taken as no one told me I would need them to prove my case to someone I dont know, in a thread that didnt exist at the time. The matter was reported.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Shibi, a few days ago a friend of mine told me of a guy spamming dps numbers and hurling abuse.

IN SASTASHA.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Sorry, but no screenshots were taken as no one told me I would need them to prove my case to someone I dont know, in a thread that didnt exist at the time. The matter was reported.

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Sus why is the story changing

How I would do it if it were up to me:
For most content, DPS meters would be strictly private; you could only see your own DPS. You cannot see other players DPS, and they cannot see yours.
"Full" DPS meters (Where you can see other players DPS) would be for elite content only, such as extreme trials, savage/ultimate raids, Baldesion Arsenal, Delubrum Reginae (Savage), Palace of the Dead (Floors 101+), and Heaven-on-High (Floors 31+).

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The good argument is that the developers don't want it in their game.

They know people use them for hardcore content. They don't design the content around that assumption. They don't and will never officially allow them. That's not the type of game they want this to be.

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Except that is the type of game it's become. FFlogs has an incredible sway over the raiding landscape because there's literally nothing else to care about besides damage in this game. You aren't rewarded for being a good healer or a good tank. You're rewarded for how high your damage is. The secondary part of your job role has a bigger influence than the primary. And that isn't due to a parsing mentality but the design of content in FFXIV. Healers, in particular, have nothing to actually heal. The outgoing damage is laughably low even at the Savage level. In fact, even Dragonsong isn't healing intensive for the most part but rather a mitigation check. Missed Reprisal? The Caster died. Missed Samba? Half the party died. It's massive hit followed by nothing followed by massive hit.

Going back to my earlier point, if FFlogs changed the current ranking requirements to allow for groups to swap a healer out and run five DPS. That would immediately swing the entire meta into focusing more on solo-healing. Eventually, it would trickle down just like everything always does.

With all that said, we don't really need an "official" damage meter. Frankly, it could never be anywhere near as suffocated as the unofficial alternatives. However, it's already in their game and absolutely dominates the raid scene. The devs trying to pretend it doesn't exist won't change that.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I agree they need to design content with random mechanics that force downtime on random players. That way people won’t be able to validate their scores because obviously players who didn’t have to deal with a certain mechanic forced on them would always do more damage. The goal should be to foster teamwork and clear fights. Not to have fights designed to be giant target dummies you can hit with no downtime if you know where to move at X moment in the fight.

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Forced downtime is not fun, especially nowadays with how rigid most jobs are designed. Several rotations simply fall apart, making the jobs incredibly weak and unfun to play if they're constantly forced to peel off the boss. This wouldn't change the perception of FFlogs and numbers as a whole. People would simply dismiss that particular fight or FFlogs itself would find a way to cut out whatever portion of the fight has this excessive downtime mechanic. In the later case, P3S' entire add phase isn't counted to discourage padding.

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Originally Posted by Feronar

How I would do it if it were up to me:
For most content, DPS meters would be strictly private; you could only see your own DPS. You cannot see other players DPS, and they cannot see yours.
"Full" DPS meters (Where you can see other players DPS) would be for elite content only, such as extreme trials, savage/ultimate raids, Baldesion Arsenal, Delubrum Reginae (Savage), Palace of the Dead (Floors 101+), and Heaven-on-High (Floors 31+).

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Nah we don't need group dps meters at all or let alone personal in extremes/POTD/HOH
I'm all for personal but party dps meters would cause drama

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Sorry, but no screenshots were taken as no one told me I would need them to prove my case to someone I dont know, in a thread that didnt exist at the time. The matter was reported.

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Then why post something that is unconfirmed as evidence that people use DPS to harass people?

Higher end content? Sure, but those severely undermanned GM and moderation force they have better work harder.

Lower end content? Nah, why do people need this? If they are so sick of getting that Ice BLM then they can just vote dismiss for difference in playstyle or endure the duty for few minutes longer.

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Originally Posted by UNDEAD10000

Well, no matter if DPS metter is private or not, it will cause toxicity.

Also i'm pretty sure many of casual players will stop playing FFXIV if DPS metter gets officially added to the game, when it would be used to discriminate casual players.

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Jokes on you, people are already disguising their toxicities with the art of being passive aggressive, because apparently being active aggressive is easier to get themselves into trouble.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Then why post something that is unconfirmed as evidence that people use DPS to harass people?

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Here is some harassment in forums for... DPS of a healer... in normal raids... who doesn't play much end game content other than crafting/gathering/minion collection. Based off logs collected by random people on random days during a duty finder queue.

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Originally Posted by SweetestLily

Whenever I see people like you my curiosity gets the better of me and I look them up on "the site" and I'm never surprised at what I see. These are the type of players who hate act. You hate it because it exposes you for being a terrible player and you want to be bad/lazy/inconvenience others in peace. Instead of hating the tool so much it's people like you who need to put it to use the most so you can figure out how and why you are scoring 0s on normal mode content.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Then why post something that is unconfirmed as evidence that people use DPS to harass people?

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Oh there is plenty of evidence. A certain streamer found out very recently what happens when you cross that line.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Shibi, a few days ago a friend of mine told me of a guy spamming dps numbers and hurling abuse.

IN SASTASHA.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Sorry, but no screenshots were taken as no one told me I would need them to prove my case to someone I dont know, in a thread that didnt exist at the time. The matter was reported.

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Got to be a good person and ask why the wording changed on your accusation?

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Originally Posted by forsakee

Got to be a good person and ask why the wording changed on your accusation?

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Oh it happened all right, it wasnt the first time, and it wont be the last.

I never changed it, I stated there are no screenshots. There arent. The matter, was, however, reported, so there IS a record of the matter, in GM hands.

Its 100% necessary to be able to read performance levels of individual players for such difficult and performance demanding content.

Taking a screenshot of someone's poor performance and harassing them publicly about it, which is YoshiPs' primary concern, is a completely different matter with no correlation.

In my 15 years of raiding in WoW with damage meters and parses and all of that I have never seen a single person do that, even the most immature people. YoshiP is completely irrational on the subject.

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Originally Posted by Klytania

I'll be excited to see what non-grey parsers think about this

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This is really not the best place to ask/talk about dmg meters, especially if you are asking only to decent players to give their take.

You are better off asking to your friends or create a community who thinks alike and formulate ideas or ways to implement it following SE ways of thinking.

I did think about it and there is just not a good way to implement a dmg meter without triggering more than half of the community. Just play with friends or a group and let em bad players be bad.

That's my 2 cents!

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Oh it happened all right, it wasnt the first time, and it wont be the last.

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Sure thing I've never seen anyone post any dps meters from any content ingame let alone a normal 4man. Plus anyone comparing dps in sastasha is a idiot and has no understanding about the game thus you can just laugh and ignore their ignorant comment "assuming it actually happened"

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Oh there is plenty of evidence. A certain streamer found out very recently what happens when you cross that line.

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You mean the guy that was mass reported for having add ons. That has nothing to do with harassing a player for dps, it has more to do with harassment from anti parsing nuts.

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In my 15 years of raiding in WoW with damage meters and parses and all of that I have never seen a single person do that, even the most immature people. YoshiP is completely irrational on the subject.

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Oh i have , as have countless others. Along with screaming, foaming at the mouth rage abuse, threats, obscenities...you name it.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Oh i have , as have countless others. Along with screaming, foaming at the mouth rage abuse, threats, obscenities...you name it.

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Please post any proof.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

If that request is made in discord, how can that rule be enforced. It cant be as theres no proof. All it does is create more grief, and more work for the staff who have god knows enough to deal with as it is.

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But it already does and is.

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You mean the guy that was mass reported for having add ons. That has nothing to do with harassing a player for dps, it has more to do with harassment from anti parsing nuts.

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No. This.

https://massivelyop.com/2019/12/18/f...on-his-stream/

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Originally Posted by CirenInus

Its 100% necessary to be able to read performance levels of individual players for such difficult and performance demanding content.

Taking a screenshot of someone's poor performance and harassing them publicly about it, which is YoshiPs' primary concern, is a completely different matter with no correlation.

In my 15 years of raiding in WoW with damage meters and parses and all of that I have never seen a single person do that, even the most immature people. YoshiP is completely irrational on the subject.

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At this point, I'm inclined to believe that Yoshi's true reason for saying that is simply because they don't want to waste time & resource dealing with the reports regarding the matter so they just took a measure to completely shut off the subject.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

No. This.

https://massivelyop.com/2019/12/18/f...on-his-stream/

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LOL knew google would come through.....

In the end the matter is academic.

There will not be an official ingame parser. If you DO use one, use it for your own interests ONLY and remain silent when dealing with other players.

Its that simple.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Oh there is plenty of evidence. A certain streamer found out very recently what happens when you cross that line.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

No. This.

https://massivelyop.com/2019/12/18/f...on-his-stream/

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Very recently you say.
https://i.postimg.cc/htcdN8Q7/f22.png

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Oh i have , as have countless others. Along with screaming, foaming at the mouth rage abuse, threats, obscenities...you name it.

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You're 100% lying on the amount that you've seen. Nobody's that lucky to have that much drama in their lives. I want a link to that guilds application site yesterday.

You may have seen it happen once or twice, in which case TOS would come in to play to deal with those folks.

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Originally Posted by forsakee

LOL knew google would come through.....

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Oh i was here when that happened. Saw the VOD before it was taken down, there was a huge uproar here when it happened as well.

*shrug*

Old news, but relevant nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Oh i was here when that happened. Saw the VOD before it was taken down, there was a huge uproar here when it happened as well.

*shrug*

Old news, but relevant nonetheless.

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It's just funny because I knew you where going to use that exact story from google

I simply pulled the link. I knew of it as I was here when it happened. Again, old news, but evidence nonetheless. Look this is going around in circles, so Ill leave it there and simply say what has been posted dozens of times.

If you do use a parser, say nothing. Dont ask dont tell. Other than that, this discussion will go the way all others have.

As far as YoshiP and the team are concerned, the matter is closed. There really is little else to say.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

As far as YoshiP and the team are concerned, the matter is closed. There really is little else to say.

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ok you can go then byebye /wave

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Originally Posted by Klytania

An officially supported damage meter should be added, there is no good argument against this. All they need to do is allow people to simply set their damage to private if they can't handle potential criticism or just don't want to mess with it. Same way they did with the adventure plates.

They could even implement the feature with "private" as the default setting.

The information is already flowing that's how the current plug-ins work. All SE would need to do is add an in-game GUI that allows you to access it.

Being able to break down your damage and stats in a meaningful way is basically standard for most games like this, and it's insane that a game as big as XIV just ignores it. There are people I know who I keep trying to get into this game, but they won't because it is missing so many basic features like this.

Virtually nobody would quit because a damage meter was added (as much as they scream on twitter to the contrary, they won't). But more people would be interested in the game if it was updated this way. It's a net positive.

Edit: Since these forum uses an obscenely moronic design of locking you to 20 posts a day, I will stick to editing the OP.

I'll be excited to see what non-grey parsers think about this

https://i.imgur.com/O1Q5exJ.png

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Find me one MMO where they have a DPS meter either officially or as an addon and players do not harass others based on their damage, and I'll say your idea is good. Yes FFXIV does not count because of the ToS.
In all the games I have played where they have a DPS meter, it only promoted elitism and toxicity. How do you want me to believe this won't be happening here too? Especially with a lot of players here are from WoW and other games with bad experiences caused by said elitism and toxicity.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

I simply pulled the link. I knew of it as I was here when it happened. Again, old news, but evidence nonetheless. Look this is going around in circles, so Ill leave it there and simply say what has been posted dozens of times.

If you do use a parser, say nothing. Dont ask dont tell. Other than that, this discussion will go the way all others have.

As far as YoshiP and the team are concerned, the matter is closed. There really is little else to say.

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It is not quiet the same evidence. You made is sound as if this is prominent behavior that happens frequently that you experience. You showed a article from two years ago of a streamer that has no relation to the claim you previously made.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Oh there is plenty of evidence. A certain streamer found out very recently what happens when you cross that line.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Oh i have , as have countless others. Along with screaming, foaming at the mouth rage abuse, threats, obscenities...you name it.

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You have established a basis, maybe unknowingly that you yourself have experience a lot of harassment, and have been involved first hand. You provide an article in which you yourself had nothing to do with. And you have no evidence of the frequency of which you have had to deal with it. It's a baseless claim, followed by an article relating to the subject of harassment. The article, and lack of video does not even prove that parsing was the cause of this harassment either.

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Originally Posted by Oopsy

Here is some harassment in forums for... DPS of a healer... in normal raids... who doesn't play much end game content other than crafting/gathering/minion collection. Based off logs collected by random people on random days during a duty finder queue.

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I agree with Lilly, People who don't take the time and effort to improve are pretty toxic in my opinion, you're making other people's lives harder as a result. Furthermore, the amount of abuse I've received from just giving advice on how to play their jobs not like a complete ape is pretty common and no I don't need ACT to tell its more elementary stuff

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

In the end the matter is academic.

There will not be an official ingame parser. If you DO use one, use it for your own interests ONLY and remain silent when dealing with other players.

Its that simple.

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Thank you for providing me prime entertainment while maintenance is happening with your historically terrible takes that you have made with no grounds in reality or evidence. You then try to take the high road and call this entire forum academic when you realize you're wrong, have been called out for lying, and providing fake evidence on a matter that you do not understand. While everyone is entitled to their opinions, you have basically discredited yourself and any credibility that your opinions held by belligerently insisting you have evidence on toxicity in the game caused by parsing and DPS meters, but then backing off when questioned on it. Before you come and try to make arguments on topics you don't fully understand, please learn more about what you're arguing about. Please understand this is not me trying demean you on a personal level but you are attempting to mislead people on what the high end community is like. It is obvious that throughout this forum you have lied a multitude of times to back your argument. Please stop bringing up points of he said she said and other hearsay to make it seem like the issue is bigger than it is. The casual side of the community are the ones mass reporting people, not the high end raiders. Please, check yourself.