Can we talk about 3rd party tools and disability?

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Exactly why I have to use Reshader, it's not just a singular on the RGB spectrum. If colours are too close/samey I can't differentiate and instead of to rely on shapes/animations

Which If you got an entire arena and boss and mechanics that are all just a different Shade of the same colour

I'm going to have a much harder time making out just what the heck is going on and that's simply something I can't help with what's provided ingame or through GPU settings. It's very much a problem with the fights design choice.

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For me if there are certain shades like yellow on yellow, bright reds, bright yellow greens, oranges I experience sensory overload white on yellow like in mt gulg is especially painful and I know I will have some trouble within the fire bird fight for this tier of 8 man raids. Usually if I get use to the sounds of a fight I can close my eyes and just memorize certain things, but it would be really nice for them to be an option for this especially if they are going to crack down on even entertaining the idea for installing an 'evil' plug in. Not to mention there might not even be audio queue's like leviathans water spout to go off of in some fights. Simple things like bigger cooldown counters, with adjustable colors. A black and white mode. Currently I could adjust my monitor to do this but I would have to do readjust it every time I am playing final fantasy and than turn it back after, and adjusting my monitor colors is already a pain in butt. I just deal with the sensory overload and hope I don't die or let my team down due to a dumb issue I have. I have sun glasses that adjust light spectrums, but wearing those while in a dark room with a monitor is way different than wearing them outside for the sun or bright lights.

I don't mean to be a big jerk to the dev team, but if they are going to crack down and promise they will implement some things into the game later they need to be more specific. I want to know what they will add, if they will add certain things, and if they don't want to do it ask for the communities help, verify plug in's, test them, and go from there. Currently the only way to suggest something to the devs is in game or on the forums (if they even read this one). I know suggestions I have made have never been talked about and highly doubt they look at all of them or plan to add anything similar to possible requests made for accessibility.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

No, it can clearly be fixed with software. If SE is ever going to take a stance on third party addons, they need to step up their accessibility game.

Orange abilities with an orange enemy on an orange background with orange AoE markers was absurd.

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While I do agree somewhat. I gotta say... in this particular case... wouldn't a VR Headset take the "monitor" close enough for them to see the whole screen? Just a thought, not trying to offend anyone.

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Originally Posted by Imora

And on the other side of this, I'm also legally blind(one eye doesn't work at all, other is about as impaired as op is) and have very few issues with no third party tools(p3 is one exception).

Issues with p3n/s aren't limited to the visually impaired as well. Orange on orange on orange seems to be hard for everyone to see.

Colorblind settings I could see but if you want to know what helped me most in wow, it wasn't ui mods or graphics changes, it was AUDIO CUES.

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Honestly I would love to know what kind of HUD you're playing with and how you overcame most of the challenged you might have encountered in FF14. ＾＾
I'm saying that because I always find it difficult to figure what other peoples are doing that I could also be doing to get a better experience.

Incidentally, I find it "funny" that everyone seems to be complaining about p3s because for me it was one of the easier fight. Orange brings more contrast to me than blue does so it was one of the fight that was the easiest to distinguish for me.
I remember when I did e12s and we were doing with the ice mechanic in the door boss, I literally had to use sunglasses to help with contrast. It felt kind of ridiculous but I guess it worked so whatever. ^^

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Originally Posted by Reelos

While I do agree somewhat. I gotta say... in this particular case... wouldn't a VR Headset take the "monitor" close enough for them to see the whole screen? Just a thought, not trying to offend anyone.

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You know, I actually considered that at some point (I even tried it) and I have to admit that the idea isn't as bad as you would think it would be. The problem I encountered really was that using a virtual desktop made the game unplayable and VR makes my eyes very dry. But being able to super curve a monitor and make it as big as you want was quite nice. (It's just a shame that it turned into a blurry mess ；；

And one of the problem that hardware solution cannot ever fix is the absolute lack of contrast in a lot of markers. If your source material is a bunch of the same colors, there is only so much you can do on the hardware side.

On software you can make better contrast, you can add settings for people to chose what colors they want their aoe markers, you can add audio cues when things are happening, like for example many EX primal will actually say something as they ready to do a tank buster.

Those are only some ideas of what can be done to help.

One last thing to consider is that most of the assistive technologies for the visually impaired people tend to be very expensive while most of the people that are the target audience for those technologies tend to be poorer.
Even a relatively low quality monitor if it was made for the visually impaired could end up costing thousands of dollars. There is just not enough users for the price to go down and make sense.

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Originally Posted by Final-Fantasy

I kind of think you should be taking your disability to a Monitor Manufacturer, not a game dev, you see where I'm going with this?

They surely could create a Monitor for such disabilities.

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People with disabilities in general should be taken into consideration. Monitor changing won't fix other problems people have. Plus I don't think they give you special monitors for having a disability, like how with certain scoliosis problems can get you a specific chair that allows you to sit up and do things without suffering is something you can get for free via your hospital. So I'd imagine having a monitor made to accommodate you would be pretty expensive.

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Originally Posted by SweetestLily

Seriously?? So people with disabilities should just suffer because they were born disadvantaged? Disgusting take on this.

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Well I am not the one who made them disadvantaged nor the people around them caused them to be disadvantaged therefore we dont owe them anything, you cant expect others to put themselves in a disadvantage just so they feel on equal ground.

So basic things like buff bars that benefit everyone are absolutely fine but nobody should be getting advantages like addons announcing mechanics because you "cant focus on everything important"

If you cant be aware of what is happening during the encounter and need your hand held then you shouldnt be doing such content to begin with, you are just not built for such type of game.

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Originally Posted by sagacious

I was thinking of housing when I read your answer. Is it possible that the housing zero is caused by a third party tool and when housing saw it it answered with a zero wins?

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No.

The official explanation is that there were communications issues between two of their servers. When such server clusters are designed the networks they use to speak to one another are isolated from the outside world. If a client-side third party tool was able to influence that network that would be a fundamental network and system architecture flaw that would make Square vulnerable to a variety of malicious actors.

Somebody trying to get an edge in Savage would be penny-ante compared to the hardcore RMT actors and DDOS creators such and exploit would enable.

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Originally Posted by Reelos

While I do agree somewhat. I gotta say... in this particular case... wouldn't a VR Headset take the "monitor" close enough for them to see the whole screen? Just a thought, not trying to offend anyone.

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Can't speak for anyone else here of course, but from what I understand VR headsets can give some people nasty motion sickness. Which is also something that can be mitigated, but means it's not necessarily an ideal solution either. They're also not the cheapest thing in the world from what I've seen.

Unless there's a use case I'm missing here. I personally don't use them because I get motion sick super easily lmao

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Minor correction: unlike its sibling Ansel (Nvidia's fancy photography/screenshot mode), Freestyle doesn't require approval or any code integration from a game's developer to work; it's part of the Nvidia driver, so it'll work anywhere. But Nvidia won't list the game on the "officially supported games" page for Freestyle on their website unless the developer has given the thumbs-up.

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No way. I thought Ansel and Freestyle were the same thing!
I remember setting it was kind of a pain really, but I guess it could've been a little bit more straightforward..

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Originally Posted by Rongway

The color of the target's hit circle can be set by changing the nameplate color for engaged enemies.

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I didn't know about that either! :eek: Thank you so much.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Well I am not the one who made them disadvantaged nor the people around them caused them to be disadvantaged therefore we dont owe them anything, you cant expect others to put themselves in a disadvantage just so they feel on equal ground.

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We? Who is we? Are you a ffxiv dev? You know that you can use accessiblity settings as well, right? No one is getting disadvantaged for more options.
Games are supposed to be fun. You're not supposed to go through pain in order to enjoy a game, and don't tell me they couldn't have changed the colors for p3s, let alone let you change them yourself. That's the kind of change that would've helped everyone involved, and not bother anybody else.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

you are just not built for such type of game.

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Yeah okay, it's just a repackaged " not every game is built for everybody xD i can do it why cant you?? ", move along.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Well I am not the one who made them disadvantaged nor the people around them caused them to be disadvantaged therefore we dont owe them anything, you cant expect others to put themselves in a disadvantage just so they feel on equal ground.

So basic things like buff bars that benefit everyone are absolutely fine but nobody should be getting advantages like addons announcing mechanics because you "cant focus on everything important"

If you cant be aware of what is happening during the encounter and need your hand held then you shouldnt be doing such content to begin with, you are just not built for such type of game.

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Yet it seems pretty important to this community to accommodate with console players even when it means disadvantages for PC players. I never forced anyone nor made anyone use a console, so why should I care about their needs? That's the same type of idiotic logic that isn't even as selfish and immature as saying something like "I didn't make them disadvantaged so why should I care about their needs?" Some games have this feature called "Accessibility features" that offers players who have disabilities some options to help them in gameplay and not just for one issue such as eyesight which is all FFXIV has to offer. Many people can benefit from things like addons or more features to accommodate their disabilities without being involved in your gameplay and overall experience. I'm not even going to bother listing a number of disabilities that prevent people from being able to perform better or on par with everyone else because you honestly should know about enough of them unless you are 12 years old. It's not as simple as getting "advantages" because you "can't focus on everything important" It runs way deeper than that. It affects the gameplay of certain people to the extent they strain themselves or over stress themselves and suffer through trying to keep up with other players. It makes people not want to play this game. Addons being implemented in MMORPG's allow an extremely large amount of features that can help people with disabilities strive much easier and be able to have fun with the game. It implements a choice in how you can alter the surroundings and lack of features in the game so you have a better time. It's not always about someone else having an advantage over other players. If you think that addons that improve gameplay and also aid people with disabilities is giving a group of people an advantage to the game, why not get the addon yourself if it seems so unfair (obviously implying if that feature is ever added to this stale MMORPG). Every game should abide to those with disabilities because forcing them to be excluded from gaming is unfair and wrong. Saying they shouldn't be doing the content in the first place and aren't built for the type of game is one way to show off your immaturity level and ability to have any compassion for others. It's disgusting

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Originally Posted by georgiams

If you think that addons that improve gameplay and also aid people with disabilities is giving a group of people an advantage to the game, why not get the addon yourself if it seems so unfair (obviously implying if that feature is ever added to this stale MMORPG). Every game should abide to those with disabilities because forcing them to be excluded from gaming is unfair and wrong. Saying they shouldn't be doing the content in the first place and aren't built for the type of game is one way to show off your immaturity level and ability to have any compassion for others. It's disgusting

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Because the whole point of an encounter is for you to be able to understand and be in control of what is happening in order to survive and beat it, if you fail to do that after a number of wipes because of an internal disability that doesnt let you comprehend what is going on then you are simply not able to complete that type of content, its the truth and reality no matter how harsh it sounds.

Addons that trivialize mechanics like timers and mechanic announcing should never be allowed no matter how much a person feels they "need" them, not only they trivialize mechanics, they make people depend on them so much so that they suddenly cant function when the addons are broken because they NEVER UNDERSTOOD the mechanics in the first place.

It is quite simple, if you hire someone to do a job, you expect them to do the job, if they cant do the job because of an internal disability you simply find an able person to do it. This is reality, I care about results, feel free to care about empathy and feelings if you wish but that does not justify giving advantages to some so they feel they are on equal ground.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Because the whole point of an encounter is for you to be able to understand and be in control of what is happening in order to survive and beat it, if you fail to do that after a number of wipes because of an internal disability that doesnt let you comprehend what is going on then you are simply not able to complete that type of content, its the truth and reality no matter how harsh it sounds.

Addons that trivialize mechanics like timers and mechanic announcing should never be allowed no matter how much a person feels they "need" them, not only they trivialize mechanics, they make people depend on them so much so that they suddenly cant function when the addons are broken because they NEVER UNDERSTOOD the mechanics in the first place.

It is quite simple, if you hire someone to do a job, you expect them to do the job, if they cant do the job because of an internal disability you simply find an able person to do it. This is reality, I care about results, feel free to care about empathy and feelings if you wish but that does not justify giving advantages to some so they feel they are on equal ground.

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And certain features that don't disrupt anyone else's game and or experience can allow people to understand and be in control of what's happening. The thing is, that there are systems that exist that let players with disabilities be on par with everyone else. Other games use them, and not using them is just turning people away from the game that doesn't have those features and onto a game that does. It's not like FFXIV raids are hard, you can afk or auto attack or heal yourself and not participate and still get by fine. No one can tell if you aren't participating much at all in the first place let alone call you out for it and have any evidence to support it. There is harder end game content and 5 man parties that people who have disabilities would struggle doing. If such things easily exist to let everyone participate in the fun, why not have it implemented?

timers and mechanic announcing honestly just prevents constant wiping more than anything. I've been in groups that have taken hours because we wiped constantly on multiple boss fights. Even when you understand the mechanics you can still slip up and having something to let you know whats coming can help, if you really don't need something like that, then don't use it. But there are people that benefit from that sort of thing for many reasons. It also doesn't affect you. You can get by in this game without knowing all that much about your job or boss fights anyway, it would be nothing but an improvement to save people's time and help people who can't go as fast as everyone else. The fact that there are rights for people with disabilities justifies giving features in games to help them play on par with everyone else. The fact that those features so easily already exist justify the reasoning to just add them to the game.

Dude, this is a video game, not a job. Literally all people want is better options native to the game so nobody needs addons to play it without getting a headache or squinting three inches from the screen. I mean heck half the problems I have personally stem from the ridiculous and obnoxious bright flashing lights and smoke and single color "color schemes" SE seems so fond of. My biggest desire would be for them to stop designing fights with so much unecessary visual clutter, and to add more and better options for UI customization (like what elements are linked and being able to hide/separate more of them) and font scaling. That's it.

I haven't seen anyone ask for anything so out there that it'd somehow ruin the "challenge" or anything. Exactly what features here would trivialize the content and how?

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Originally Posted by georgiams

if you really don't need something like that, then don't use it.

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Yeah I am sure people love working harder just so a few can play on easymode with training wheels. The people without such addons need to be more aware, more capable and more efficient compared to the person that relies on such addons and never truly learns because they depend on them like training wheels that never go off, so we got a person who works harder and a person who has their hand held permanently in the same group, this is extremely unbalanced.

And as i explained earlier, those addons shouldnt be tolerated in general to avoid the slippery slope of addon dependence and trivialization of mechanics that has happened in WoW.

If you are not capable of being aware of the encounter's mechanics why are you in that encounter? If you really want the reward you can always buy it from a boost or through an FC but dont pretend you are able to beat it on equal ground like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Because the whole point of an encounter is for you to be able to understand and be in control of what is happening in order to survive and beat it, if you fail to do that after a number of wipes because of an internal disability that doesnt let you comprehend what is going on then you are simply not able to complete that type of content, its the truth and reality no matter how harsh it sounds.

Addons that trivialize mechanics like timers and mechanic announcing should never be allowed no matter how much a person feels they "need" them, not only they trivialize mechanics, they make people depend on them so much so that they suddenly cant function when the addons are broken because they NEVER UNDERSTOOD the mechanics in the first place.

It is quite simple, if you hire someone to do a job, you expect them to do the job, if they cant do the job because of an internal disability you simply find an able person to do it. This is reality, I care about results, feel free to care about empathy and feelings if you wish but that does not justify giving advantages to some so they feel they are on equal ground.

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If a company fails to make accommodations for a disability or purposely excludes someone from the hiring process or from a position that they are capable of doing with those recommended accommodations

That company would be sued by the state for discrimination.

Your straw man doesn't even hold up in your own what if scenario.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

If a company fails to make accommodations for a disability or purposely excludes someone from the hiring process or from a position that they are capable of doing with those recommended accommodations

That company would be sued by the state for discrimination.

Your straw man doesn't even hold up in your own what if scenario.

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That is why they often dont hire them to begin with, and dont assume the entire world works under your hyper liberal standards, many countries allow for firing people for failing to do their job consistently even if they try to use a disability excuse to avoid the consequences of their failure.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

That is why they often dont hire them to begin with, and dont assume the entire world works under your hyper liberal standards, many countries allow for firing people for failing to do their job consistently even if they try to use a disability excuse to avoid the consequences of their failure.

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Ahh, so you're one of "those people"

I'm not even Hyper Liberal, it's called being a decent human being.

Imagine being such an actual POS that you literally voice your hatred of disabled people openly and blatantly on a public forum

Oh and yes, companies do make accommodations and get sued when they don't, unfortunately for you, outside loony land we have a little thing called GDPR in this part of the world which you can use to ensure a hiring process is entirely transparent and fair, if it isn't. Employer goes to court and loses.

But you keep thinking the backwater way your companies treat human beings is the norm, not the exception.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Because the whole point of an encounter is for you to be able to understand and be in control of what is happening in order to survive and beat it, if you fail to do that after a number of wipes because of an internal disability that doesnt let you comprehend what is going on then you are simply not able to complete that type of content, its the truth and reality no matter how harsh it sounds.

Addons that trivialize mechanics like timers and mechanic announcing should never be allowed no matter how much a person feels they "need" them, not only they trivialize mechanics, they make people depend on them so much so that they suddenly cant function when the addons are broken because they NEVER UNDERSTOOD the mechanics in the first place.

It is quite simple, if you hire someone to do a job, you expect them to do the job, if they cant do the job because of an internal disability you simply find an able person to do it. This is reality, I care about results, feel free to care about empathy and feelings if you wish but that does not justify giving advantages to some so they feel they are on equal ground.

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Why do you think discussing assistance with disability means call outs and timers? I'd like to change the color that aoes are displayed in because they made the aoe the same color as the floor.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Well I am not the one who made them disadvantaged nor the people around them caused them to be disadvantaged therefore we dont owe them anything, you cant expect others to put themselves in a disadvantage just so they feel on equal ground.

So basic things like buff bars that benefit everyone are absolutely fine but nobody should be getting advantages like addons announcing mechanics because you "cant focus on everything important"

If you cant be aware of what is happening during the encounter and need your hand held then you shouldnt be doing such content to begin with, you are just not built for such type of game.

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People who have not done content should never dictate who can or cannot do something. Going by your logic, I can say that a lot of the hyper casual audience shouldn't even be past the 83 trial and be stuck there, forever, because 'they can't focus on everything important' when the mechanic is A. Brand New, and B. Instantly kills you if you mess it up. Or that you can't clear MSQ and should be locked out if you die. By the way, this mechanic never shows up again outside the EX version.

See how bad this logic is?

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Why do you think discussing assistance with disability means call outs and timers? I'd like to change the color that aoes are displayed in because they made the aoe the same color as the floor.

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Like i said in an earlier post I dont mind things that benefit everyone, that would be something that anyone can use and it makes sense. (unless the devs made the floor colour the same on purpose which would be rarely the case.)

And i mentioned call outs because it is something the OP mentioned when they said they feel they need it because they cant focus on the entire encounter, hence my point that if you cant do what the encounter requires due to personal permanent inability you shouldnt be there and should absolutely not be asking to have the encounter's mechanics' trivialized because you feel you should be part of something you are not capable of doing.

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

People who have not done content should never dictate who can or cannot do something. Going by your logic, I can say that a lot of the hyper casual audience shouldn't even be past the 83 trial and be stuck there, forever, because 'they can't focus on everything important' when the mechanic is A. Brand New, and B. Instantly kills you if you mess it up. Or that you can't clear MSQ and should be locked out if you die. By the way, this mechanic never shows up again outside the EX version.

See how bad this logic is?

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You do realize we are talking about permanent inability correct?
Everyone needs some time to see and understand the mechanics, some need more time than others, but if someone is incapable of achieving this in a reasonable amount of time or even ever and demands training wheels, that is a very different case.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Yeah I am sure people love working harder just so a few can play on easymode with training wheels. The people without such addons need to be more aware, more capable and more efficient compared to the person that relies on such addons and never truly learns because they depend on them like training wheels that never go off, so we got a person who works harder and a person who has their hand held permanently in the same group, this is extremely unbalanced.

And as i explained earlier, those addons shouldnt be tolerated in general to avoid the slippery slope of addon dependence and trivialization of mechanics that has happened in WoW.

If you are not capable of being aware of the encounter's mechanics why are you in that encounter? If you really want the reward you can always buy it from a boost or through an FC but dont pretend you are able to beat it on equal ground like everyone else.

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yes, and I am sure that people with disabilities and visual impairments that are outside of the realm of their control just enjoy working twice as hard as other people because the development team just isn't adhering to the most trivial of accessibility issues. It is beyond insulting, and more so than those developing the encounter don't even create the equal footing ground that you just seem to love preaching.

Don't be deliberately ignorant and tone-deaf to the blatant issue that plague design in this game from even the most basic of accessibility standpoints. If they don't want people utilizing third-party software in this regard, or in any capacity then they ought to reflect on their own design surrounding these encounters.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Like i said in an earlier post I dont mind things that benefit everyone, that would be something that anyone can use and it makes sense. (unless the devs made the floor colour the same on purpose which would be rarely the case.)

And i mentioned call outs because it is something the OP mentioned when they said they feel they need it because they cant focus on the entire encounter, hence my point that if you cant do what the encounter requires due to personal permanent inability you shouldnt be there and should absolutely not be asking to have the encounter's mechanics' trivialized because you feel you should be part of something you are not capable of doing.


You do realize we are talking about permanent inability correct?
Everyone needs some time to see and understand the mechanics, some need more time than others, but if someone is incapable of achieving this in a reasonable amount of time or even ever and demands training wheels, that is a very different case.

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And I'm telling you that you didn't clear enough of the MSQ. You yourself cannot judge on these things if you haven't even finished MSQ, let alone trials, or Savage, where the difficulty floor is so notoriously low in XIV that people still complain Savage is still difficult because the game does not teach you, or does such a poor job teaching that these things are necessary.

Or going back to even Stormblood, the server ticks were bad enough that a mechanic was difficult, if not impossible to complete for certain players due to technical error (Exdeath Black Hole mechanic, as a light example.)

If you want to say callouts are bad, I guess you can't use voice chat while playing. Is this hyperbolic? Possibly, but people use voice for call outs, so therefore people who use voice chat do not deserve to clear content.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Like i said in an earlier post I dont mind things that benefit everyone, that would be something that anyone can use and it makes sense. (unless the devs made the floor colour the same on purpose which would be rarely the case.)

And i mentioned call outs because it is something the OP mentioned when they said they feel they need it because they cant focus on the entire encounter, hence my point that if you cant do what the encounter requires due to personal permanent inability you shouldnt be there and should absolutely not be asking to have the encounter's mechanics' trivialized because you feel you should be part of something you are not capable of doing.

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I think you are misunderstanding something here. If a game relies on telegraphs for the player to know what to do, that telegraph should be communicated clearly and probably also in multiple ways. Leviathon uses water spouts that have directional sounds alongside them. The contrast between the water spout and the background could be a little better but the point still stands that a visual and audio tell is present for said mechanic. Stack markers have used various indicators for quite some time and are now being homogenized into one consistent indicator with a visual and audible tell. I actually hear tells before I see them 90% of the time. A mechanic that relies entirely on sight I have a hard time knowing even exists. Even if it's big and obvious, it would be nice to have a sound to inform me to look in that direction, regardless of how subtle. Text displays is another factor that is a big problem for me personally. So mechanics that heavily rely on knowing what the boss is casting I find very annoying. The game has the information present, It would just be nice to also have it communicated in more ways more often. The change to make all tank busters use the red target arrow with attached sound effect is a very welcome change.

If the game relies on the player noticing all the tells then those tells need to be clear and unclear tells gives the impression of fake difficulty. Most mechanics I've encountered are not hard to understand, they are just hard to perceive. That's fake challenge imo.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Yeah I am sure people love working harder just so a few can play on easymode with training wheels. The people without such addons need to be more aware, more capable and more efficient compared to the person that relies on such addons and never truly learns because they depend on them like training wheels that never go off, so we got a person who works harder and a person who has their hand held permanently in the same group, this is extremely unbalanced.

If you are not capable of being aware of the encounter's mechanics why are you in that encounter? If you really want the reward you can always buy it from a boost or through an FC but dont pretend you are able to beat it on equal ground like everyone else.

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Wait ...surely you aren't complaining that a slower or less dexterous person (due to disability) would be any sort of problem? You should relish the chance to carry the disabled player, as challenge would be your true desire. You should assist the disabled player, for your self worth does not depend on solving basic puzzles created to be beaten, aka as a video game.

Starting to sound a bit tryhard, possibly even toxic or Elitist there Ralph. It's only a game and all that.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

yes, and I am sure that people with disabilities and visual impairments that are outside of the realm of their control just enjoy working twice as hard as other people because the development team just isn't adhering to the most trivial of accessibility issues. It is beyond insulting, and more so than those developing the encounter don't even create the equal footing ground that you just seem to love preaching.

Don't be deliberately ignorant and tone-deaf to the blatant issue that plague design in this game from even the most basic of accessibility standpoints. If they don't want people utilizing third-party software in this regard, or in any capacity then they ought to reflect on their own design surrounding these encounters.

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The saddest part of all this is in SEs other titles, all these options exist already

It's like they have done an absolutely amazing job with their accessibility in VII remake, Stranger of Paradise, Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy, yet are just doing bare minimum "that'll do" here.

I love the game, love the dev team, but their accessibility stuff feels like they didn't even try.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

The saddest part of all this is in SEs other titles, all these options exist already

It's like they have done an absolutely amazing job with their accessibility in VII remake, Stranger of Paradise, Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy, yet are just doing bare minimum "that'll do" here.

I love the game, love the dev team, but their accessibility stuff feels like they didn't even try.

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This. The industry have moved towards accessibility options for quite a few years now, and if Ubisoft can do it.. well, you know.

I thought about it, but they introduced small talk in the MSQ cutscenes, and these aren't subtitled at all. I wish they would do something about it.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I think you are misunderstanding something here. If a game relies on telegraphs for the player to know what to do, that telegraph should be communicated clearly and probably also in multiple ways. Leviathon uses water spouts that have directional sounds alongside them.

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throwback to when i had my earphones on the wrong way around and wiped the party on levi unreal
but seriously more audio cues would be fantastic in fights that require you to swing your camera around a lot

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Well I am not the one who made them disadvantaged nor the people around them caused them to be disadvantaged therefore we dont owe them anything, you cant expect others to put themselves in a disadvantage just so they feel on equal ground.

So basic things like buff bars that benefit everyone are absolutely fine but nobody should be getting advantages like addons announcing mechanics because you "cant focus on everything important"

If you cant be aware of what is happening during the encounter and need your hand held then you shouldnt be doing such content to begin with, you are just not built for such type of game.

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Ironic comment considering your signature text:

"The tryhard elitist is the person who is going to finish their 5 pieces on this created to be beaten """"challenge"""" and then complaint that the baby, slower or less dexterous person are a problem which not only is toxic but indirectly implies that doing this basic created to be beaten task faster is an """achievement""" of """great skill""" which helps to falsely boost the elitist's self worth as that is their true motive, if challenge was truly their desire they would relish in the chance to do more than the rest.
The healthy person on the other hand will either let people finish their part or assist them for their self worth does not depend on solving basic puzzles created to be beaten, aka as a video game."

Hello, I've been reading through the thread and I wanted to add my two pennies, I myself am deaf gamer, I can't hear at all so any audio cues and/or voice chat is not possible with me.

I'm progging through P4S, got to second phase and I don't use any addons nor mods but I wish I did for P3S -- I'm not colourblind but the colour scheme there wasn't very good. It messed my eyesight up a bit and I can't imagine how someone who has colourblindness or low sight manage to do that without additional help. I've tried the audio assistance thing in accessibility, it doesn't really work at all for me as it distracts me more than it should so I can't give proper opinion on that.

I actually was afraid to do savage content in the game and never did it until this expansion (I started back in 2.2, I think -- when Levi was added to the game, pre-Rogue/Ninja) and I was lucky to join two different static groups who had no issues with me being deaf - especially having seen so many "VC needed!" in pf/fc/recuitments.

Not many fights use audio cues exclusively so with patience and trial&error I was able to do most of fights, but there's so much I feel could help with accessibility. The buffs/debuffs was hard to check in middle of combat (more so with controller), some AoE markers are hard to see with the colour scheme and all that just makes it very frustrating to me and I think it could benefit the game as well the players if we have more accessibility options.

Sorry for poor English, not my native language (British Sign Language is) so hopefully that was readable enough.

First of all, I would like to thank everyone who participated in this discussion so far!
I really appreciate that for the most part we have managed to keep this thread relevant and interesting!

There is however a few things that have been said that I would like to address:
I am not advocating for automatic audio callouts of mechanics like "Tank buster is next. Will happen in 5 seconds but boss starts casting in 3" or "Stack on A for stack marker than spread" or "go left for this colored beam." I would like to have more audio cues yes, but not in a way tells you what to do. For example, in innocence when the boss does the tank buster, he will also shout 天罰だ！ (tenbatsu da!) which means "devine judgement" (sorry I don't know the English for this). There are many instances where boss will write something in the chat and in some situation it is actually relevent to the mechanics (I'm thinking of UCoB for example) and I wonder why it cannot also be voice acted at the same time?

I would love to have more voice acting in savage fight, I think that it could help not only for accessibility but also for making the atmosphere of a boss fight more dynamic.

Incidentally, I am also not advocating that people with disabilities should have a special treatment that other peoples don't. I recognize that everyone in the game should be on equal footing. That is what I am advocating for: Equal footing. And because thst is what I am asking for, I am asking for better contrasts of mechanics or the ability to choose markers coloring for example. I've seen and heard so many people talk about Phoinix, and I think that is an amazing example of how beneficial it could be to change the color of aoe markers.

Also, I am not saying that I cannot pay attention to the mechanics, what I am saying is that it is difficult for me to pay attention to mechanics when I have look through useless information in my party frame to get the information that I actually need. For example, I don't need to see buffs in the party frame that don't concern me. I don't care whether a DPS has their single target dps buff if I'm playing a job that provides very little to party utility. But I need to see that debuff that needs to be removed in the next 2 seconds though.
Likewise I don't need to see that monk's MP bar, what I really need to see as a healer is their HP.

Finally, for anyone who is wondering, I am currently challenging TEA and I have seen up to limit cuts so far.
I don't need to use addons to clear content. That is not the purpose of this thread. Thank you for remembering this.

As a side note, I would love for people with disability to describe challenges that they have faced in the game and how they managed to overcome them. I think that not just people with disabilities but the community as a whole could benefit from this sharing of knowledge!
Together we can overcome anything! That is my belief.

Again thank you.

Mana

99% of the player base don't even have to worry about this and peoples will be able to continue to use their favorite plugin.
Seriously peoples making it's like a big deal but that concerns only streamer who were playing with fire and now start to realize it can burn them, even after Yoshi.P reminder the other day...

In my opinion a disability doesn't give the right to violate the ToS.

Otherwise it would be a free pass for everyone to violate the ToS. They just need to say they have to do it because they are disabled.

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Originally Posted by ACE135

In my opinion a disability doesn't give the right to violate the ToS.

Otherwise it would be a free pass for everyone to violate the ToS. They just need to say they have to do it because they are disabled.

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Nobody is suggesting that people violate the ToS. Where are you getting this?

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Originally Posted by ACE135

In my opinion a disability doesn't give the right to violate the ToS.

Otherwise it would be a free pass for everyone to violate the ToS. They just need to say they have to do it because they are disabled.

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Actually, my argument here is that I really wish the game had more accessibility options so that people with special situation didn't feel compelled to break the ToS.
I absolutely do not advocate for the use of third party software. ＾＾

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Well I am not the one who made them disadvantaged nor the people around them caused them to be disadvantaged therefore we dont owe them anything, you cant expect others to put themselves in a disadvantage just so they feel on equal ground.

So basic things like buff bars that benefit everyone are absolutely fine but nobody should be getting advantages like addons announcing mechanics because you "cant focus on everything important"

If you cant be aware of what is happening during the encounter and need your hand held then you shouldnt be doing such content to begin with, you are just not built for such type of game.

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And neither are they, do you think they woke up in the morning on day and decided to be disabled? THEY didnt make THEMSELVES disadvantaged. Imagine we lived in a world where nobody accomodated for special needs because "it isnt our problem and we didnt cause it". You are clearly someone who sees people with disabilities as a hindrance and have absolutely 0 compassion or respect for them. Your stance on this is borderline psychotic. I will entertain you no further. To all the people with disabilities reading this thread I would like to formally apologize for this guys insensitivity. Its embarrasing to read.

Why would you otherwise talk about third party tools in combination with disabilities when you don't want in some way to justify the usage?

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Originally Posted by ACE135

Why would you otherwise talk about third party tools in combination with disabilities when you don't want in some way to justify the usage?

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Because some of them have features that the developers should consider - As by their own admission below:

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We believe that people use the aforementioned tools to expand the HUD and display more information because they feel that existing functions are insufficient for tackling high-end duties. In recognition of this, we intend to review the most prominent tools, and in order to discourage their use, endeavor to enhance the functionality of the HUD. Though it will take some time, we're determined to make it happen ─ not least for the benefit of those who play on consoles.

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- This same courtesy should be expanded to those that arguably need them to overcome some fairly questionable design practices with respect to accessibility. This core consideration should not be exclusive to the HUD.

- If this is known to you or not, no console player currently has native support for accessibility functions within the in-game features. Puts those on the console at a disadvantage.

- If people don't raise the issue here, most especially when there arguably is a correlation - Then who will? When will this be taken into consideration? If nobody raises these issues then they will not get resolved.

It is not about justifying their usage as much as it is highlighting that certain tools have features that can be utilized and expanded onto in-game systems.

Just because a tool may be helpful doesn't mean that it's okay to use. Of course you can ask SE to implement features that would help you to play the game better with your disability. But don't ask SE to be lenient with you for using third party tools because your disability "forced" you to use them.

Whitelisting some text-to-speech software, or baking it as an optional feature in the game, could also be neat, specially to follow dialoges for some people. It would be scarce in on itself, but it's always something that might come handy for non-voiced text.

Just another thought.

I do think that their stance towards 3rd Party Tools is, on the long run, good for the Game itself, BUT i think banning someone for 10 days because of it, especially on the day this suddenly gets enforced is a bit too hard, 24 Hours suspension at most, would have been fair imo.

The thing with Addons is, that they are to a degree, a double edged Sword, because to a degree, the necessity of a specific Addon only becomes important, if the Game itself is lacking in some ways, like for example, Cooldowns or Buffs not being displayed big enough. Yet becoming straight up reliant to them, will start hurting the Game and here is why:

According to ToS, all 3rd Party Programs (For those who dont know, it is ONLY a 3rd Party Program, if it serves as a means of interacting with the Gamefiles, trough the assistance of a Second Party, which is You.) Are NOT allowed. One of the main reasons for that, is so that every Player, be it PC or Playstation 4/5, stands on equal footing with all the means given by the Game. Therefore Addons like ACT will, despite "only being a Calculator" still be a small advantage which PC Players have over PS4/5 Players.

But what about things like Visual Mods that hurt noone?
The thing is, if you allow Grey Areas with Mods, that allow these kind of things, People are going to try and push/negotiate endlessly their border of what should and should not be allowed, therefore you either allow them all or remove them all, if a true Solution must be reached.

This Situation was inevitably going to happen, since this Game had their Grey Area on Mods for quite a time going on, and the push from both PvP Cheaters, as well as Ultimate Raiders using Addons, simply was the final Drop of Water that made the Glass overflow and everyones complaining about the mess.

Well in truth, if you're using an add on that helps you with some sort of an impairment, I don't think the moderators would care. I think the guideline should be that as long as you're using to keep yourself even on the playing field as any other non disabled player would, you're probably fine.

Can you imagine the PR disaster that would come out of SE banning someones account for say using speech to text indicator, some sort of in game tool that is ONLY FOR A DISABILITY not for raiding, or even a color blind mod. People would go crazy, and the devs would be pushed into a corner. Just use common sense if you're adapting as a disabled gamer, and don't create any unfair advantages.

Try to keep it external if you can before you go into the game itself, and when in doubt ask a moderator.