Square Enix PVP Response is as out of touch as their NFT announcement

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Originally Posted by Bureda

Literally nobody cares if you're tea bagged in a game. Literally nobody cares a firework is thrown over when you're downed.

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Tell that to the hundreds of people who are submitting harassment reports after the release of CC.

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Originally Posted by Nukro

Wow, there is so much to unpack there LOL

Here's a reality check dude, your beliefs are opinions not facts. You don't speak for the community and you don't get to claim that "no one cares". You can take tea bagging on the chin all you want, that doesn't mean everyone else has to. And to imply that people are pretending to be offended to cope with a lost game is beyond absurd. I can be offended that someone is tea bagging in-game and still be in top 100 on my dc, those things are in no way mutually exclusive.

It's ironic bordering on parody that you talk about self reflection here. Someone that actually did that would realize that their way of living wouldn't be right for everyone else. If you think people are faking it or that they are weak for feeling a certain way, then you're part of the problem. You might be fine with every game being like a CS:GO lobby but that's not how I like to chill after work.

Also bug fixes and balance changes have never fixed player toxicity. The only thing that curbs toxic behavior is community moderation, which is exactly what the new policy is.

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Are you a dev alt account? trying to justify censoring people over banter instead of fixing bug abuse, class imbalance, cheating and gameplay?

Maybe instead of making forum alt accounts you should go play ranked and see how much extremes it brings. In casual mode, it's more fun because it has people of different skill level. In ranked, it puts people that are extra heavy on your team with a high chance of loss, causing degradation in gameplay and experience.

I don't care about your feelings or that you think I am not feeling what you're feeling.

I want ranked mode and competitive to get the attention and love it deserves. Your emotions do not come over the core gameplay. I know you think you're some special flower and you should feel like winning all the time and you've probably never hit ranked, but the reality is. The company is shooting itself on the foot by not respecting and addressing ranked and known issues like cc stacking, AOE CC with they know their code is noodle code, silence being op, polymorph giga op and addons and other bugs allowing you to perform inhuman things.

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Originally Posted by Nukro

The only thing that curbs toxic behavior is community moderation

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This is a fallacy. It doesn't curb toxic behavior, it just makes said behavior take a slightly different form. Prohibition-style tactics have never in human history worked to dissuade people from doing anything.

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Originally Posted by Oldschoolegamer38

So what you are saying is as long as your fee-fees are not impacted everything else is ok? Nah it doesn't work like that, and the folks exploring the bugs in PvP is an instant report in my book.. When a MCH air acnchors a person that should have not been targeted because of LOS from there character and still get it off there is a problem

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I don't know why people always have to resort to saying the phrase "fee-fees" like you're deliberately trying to be condescending and dismissive. Fortunately, It DOES work like that. It's toxic behavior. I don't need to go into detail because the ToS speaks for it's self on that situation. It's not allowed. You can argue me on my "fee-fees" all you want to, but that won't change the rules. You're complaining to the wrong girl. SE is in charge not me.

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Originally Posted by Bureda

Are you a dev alt account? trying to justify censoring people over banter instead of fixing bug abuse, class imbalance, cheating and gameplay?

Maybe instead of making forum alt accounts you should go play ranked and see how much extremes it brings. In casual mode, it's more fun because it has people of different skill level. In ranked, it puts people that are extra heavy on your team with a high chance of loss, causing degradation in gameplay and experience.

I don't care about your feelings or that you think I am not feeling what you're feeling.

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"Censoring people" LOL. Did you know that in america you can't yell "fire!!" in a crowded movie theater? You go to jail for doing that. You also go to jail for trying to get a crowd of people to go attack someone. You go to jail when you try a funny prank bomb threat on a school. These things have punishments associated with them for the greater good of community. Nothing is stopping you from doing them, but you pay a price after.
Its the same thing with community moderation. You set boundaries and you punish people when they act outside them. If don't do this then your community starts to look more like COD, CS:GO, or RUST where people spew bile over the mic. You might be okay with that, but other players are not.

You know whats funny? I do play ranked, in fact I'm #31 on primal. THAT is how I know you're just mad cause you've been losing. If you're not planning for silences, poly, and stuns, you're just yolo diving and getting mad when you die.

Casual cc is just a rolf-stomp if your in crystal, you think a one sided fight is fun?

The same way you don't care about others feelings, I don't care what you think on game balance. You're clearly inexperienced, you're randomly making assumptions on match making, you think anything you didnt plan for is unfair, and you're essentially complaining that strategy exists in ranked. Honestly... you need to just buckle down and git gud. I promise you, you can work around most of the things you complain about.

And the funniest thing about all of this is that your conflating the two issues of moderation and game balance. You don't have to choose one or the other. Proper attention from the devs would be to give us resolutions for both. Which is ironically what just happened with the policy notice and 6.11. Literally 2 weeks of feedback and they gave us an update, if they keep this up thats the same as League. They are very clearly looking at supporting pvp, you just need to chill out and wait.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

This is a fallacy. It doesn't curb toxic behavior, it just makes said behavior take a slightly different form. Prohibition-style tactics have never in human history worked to dissuade people from doing anything.

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I wasn't implying that toxic behavior could be stamped out from existence. No one believes that is possible. But if your claim is that moderation has no effect on the shape of the community, that is just false. The duality in the existence of the ff community and the rust community is proof of that. FF players wouldnt dream of saying the things rust players say, and that should be an obvious positive.

Hahah. You like this sound of your own typing. I bet you feel like you're some sort of paragon. Let me guess, you also got to that rank by playing GNB.

You're talking like there is tactics involved in crystal. The quality of gameplay is worse than that of bronze and casual. People in the highest rank still don't know what objectives are, but let me guess, you've never experienced that and every game you've had has been a masterful skill of display.

Welcome to the club, I know you're not having fun in Crystal and I know you're here to get some attention but you can't be in denial that current ranked is in a terrible state.

Anyway, since you like the sound of your own making and think you're being some sort of paragon of justice I will continue to reel you in.

Please, stop mentioning league like you know what you're talking about, those games are pvp centric and receive responses within hours. What most of them have never done, since 2011, is talking about community behaviour over patching. It has always been a separate discussion.

Square decided to tell people how to behave before opening communication with the player base to address the clear problems and job favouritism and that's a problem.

Being happy with a 2 week response that fixes literally nothing. Yikes, I'm good. I will continue to expect better from a conglomerate.

From the way i see it, the very reason why People are behaving so "toxic" is because PvP has (as stated already by Bureda) some really annoying points that result into certain Jobs having a huge advantage over others, you can outsmart them sometimes, but thats beside the point.

Lets take the Elixir for example. 5sec cast time and 4,7sec for the effect to trigger. I think that alone is way too fast for something that restores all HP/MP to maximum.

Another Point is the whole Silence issue, both RDM and BRD are way too mobile and powerful to have a effect that denies ALL actions from happening. Silence should be similar like it is in PvE, where it only denies specific Skills, but not all of them.

Also, remove the freaking Broil-clones from all the Healers and replace it with something more original, even if i have to stab People as SCH with a Tonberry knife in Melee, thats way better than STILL keeping the same mess from PvE also in PvP. I play PvP to escape the mess that are PvE Healers, i dont need that garbage here as well.

But does anyone really think SE will be able to balance like 16 classes? This is a dream within a dream...

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Originally Posted by Sidamel

But does anyone really think SE will be able to balance like 16 classes? This is a dream within a dream...

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They already are in a sense. Overall the whole picture of Job design in PvP is really good for what it is, but it does have a few holes that need adressing in order to keep things fair.

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Originally Posted by Bureda

Once again. I have most likely more games than you

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I'm a curious kinda guy, so I'll bite. What's your rank and how many games you got? Helps set the foundation for understanding your point of view in a way.

After the announcement, the PVP games in dia/crystal are pretty quite (at least in Elemental). No one marks, or calls out as much as before. Its more of do on your own and yolo. Amazing Yoshi P, you somehow killed the game.

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Originally Posted by Rieze_Xeero

After the announcement, the PVP games in dia/crystal are pretty quite (at least in Elemental). No one marks, or calls out as much as before. Its more of do on your own and yolo. Amazing Yoshi P, you what away to kill the game.

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So what does Yoshi P have to do with this? Should Yoshi P write "You have to mark targets and do call outs" into TOS? It is the community's job to create the standard way to do things like people did with Feast that didn't have chat and required way more teamwork to kill 1 person even once :p

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Originally Posted by Nanne

So what does Yoshi P have to do with this? Should Yoshi P write "You have to mark targets and do call outs" into TOS? It is the community's job to create the standard way to do things like people did with Feast that didn't have chat and required way more teamwork to kill 1 person even once :p

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Simple, a lot of players where afraid to chat cause they don't want to be banned. It's funny that most players reacted this way because they just have to avoid spamming but no, most opted to not chat and the problem with it is coordinated game-play is gone. Again I say this on Elemental Dia/Crystal rank. I noticed this a few days after the patch.

I played Feast, I know what you mean but don't lie if you don't see the effect of the announcement on the games. Well maybe in Shiva there was no change at all, lucky for you I guess.

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Originally Posted by Sidamel

But does anyone really think SE will be able to balance like 16 classes? This is a dream within a dream...

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I'd say most of the jobs are pretty well balanced. Its only certain kits that are overtuned and certain LB's that are too much of a game changer.

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Originally Posted by Rieze_Xeero

Simple, a lot of players where afraid to chat cause they don't want to be banned. It's funny that most players reacted this way because they just have to avoid spamming but no, most opted to not chat and the problem with it is coordinated game-play is gone. Again I say this on Elemental Dia/Crystal rank. I noticed this a few days after the patch.

I played Feast, I know what you mean but don't lie if you don't see the effect of the announcement on the games. Well maybe in Shiva there was no change at all, lucky for you I guess.

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You're not going to be banned for using the quick chat and marking players. I'm still using my "attacking player" macro that prompts the quick chat and marks the player with no issues. If you actually read the update they are talking about people excessively spamming the quick chat with things like "Nice job!" when people are losing. Its obvious when quick chat is used in a toxic manner and when in an appropriate manner.

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Originally Posted by Sidamel

But does anyone really think SE will be able to balance like 16 classes? This is a dream within a dream...

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Literally their job and this famed bold claim that they listen to community feedback. I wish to experience this. So, yes, yes I do think that!

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Originally Posted by Ixon

I'm a curious kinda guy, so I'll bite. What's your rank and how many games you got? Helps set the foundation for understanding your point of view in a way.

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Thanks for bumping king and just for you. I am hard stuck bronze with 3k games.

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Originally Posted by Bureda

Thanks for bumping king and just for you. I am hard stuck bronze with 3k games.

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And your main concern is actions taken for emote spam? Yikes.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

So what does Yoshi P have to do with this? Should Yoshi P write "You have to mark targets and do call outs" into TOS? It is the community's job to create the standard way to do things like people did with Feast that didn't have chat and required way more teamwork to kill 1 person even once :p

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Yoshi P is a revered and respected man and he didn't make the announcement but he does oversee most of the things as he has claimed.

When their main focus is carebear behaviours instead of having an open discussion on the state of pvp and competitive I would think it would dampen the spirits and remove the motivation of quite a few.

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Originally Posted by Bureda

I know you're not having fun in Crystal

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You've no ground to stand on so you come up with this? Pathetic. Enjoy being hard stuck sub 100, I'm sure it's the games fault and not yours.

And I'm too many years into playing MMOs to believe that.

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Originally Posted by Sidamel

And I'm too many years into playing MMOs to believe that.

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Then you ought to know that if something like cash shop had issues that shit would be fixed within the hour. The clap back needs to be real and standards need to go up. Giving the PVP community scraps and people being grateful for it is wild.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

I'm not sure how testing would prevent player from abusing the system and/or cheating. But also taking that aside as someone who took some time to look into those testing procedures in other games like say MtG... Let me be frank no matter how large a test group would be you'll always be under prepared for what will actually happen.

Yes you're right. Devs were out of touch. They did give playerbase way too much credit of trust. They should have treated every single one of us as potential ToS violator and install spyware onto our PC/consoles. That would have solved everything.

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Then might as well take pvp out of the game if they cant stop cheating in pvp .

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Originally Posted by Ixon

I'm a curious kinda guy, so I'll bite. What's your rank and how many games you got? Helps set the foundation for understanding your point of view in a way.

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Isn't rank quite literally irrelevant? Like, the overall sentiment seems to be that match quality/player skill doesn't actually increase as you go up in rank, plus you've got these stories of people literally just spam queueing their way to crystal. Seems quite meaningless to the argument

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Originally Posted by Karasio

Isn't rank quite literally irrelevant? Like, the overall sentiment seems to be that match quality/player skill doesn't actually increase as you go up in rank, plus you've got these stories of people literally just spam queueing their way to crystal. Seems quite meaningless to the argument

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People have short term memories. Crystal players are absolutely better than bronze players lol. For the most part though yes ranked is kinda whatever. Some people will get hard stuck, but if you're at least decent you'll climb pretty easily.

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Originally Posted by Karasio

Isn't rank quite literally irrelevant? Like, the overall sentiment seems to be that match quality/player skill doesn't actually increase as you go up in rank, plus you've got these stories of people literally just spam queueing their way to crystal. Seems quite meaningless to the argument

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I take zero pride in being crystal. Honestly. I feel like I got conned and had the cheapest sex there is, probably have some sort of disease. The other day I solo pushed the objective to 83% only contested by a ranged person that was trying to keep their distance and not enter the crystal, both teams were fighting on the speed tracks of Palaistra.

This is a mandatory bump. Hey Square Enix, how about you start listening to your community. :clown:

NICE INVESTMENT SQUARE

More active booting and disqualifying people for using exploits/bugs/cheats, simply stripping ranks off their gameplay and giving them 1 year quarentine from anything Ranked, pve content included.

More harsh take on people abusing or overusing the chat system in CC, especially when it go wrong and they are displeased and not even trying to fight back after to be taken to a harsh course... eg. exclusion from ranked pvp taken in doing such and repeated spam nice job, when it is going bad for the team.