[Spoiler] Alliance Raid: Deryk...

I agree with Oschon, and I'm going with the Opo-opo being Llymlean, as it appears they travel in pairs of their respective element.
There's a lot of focus on Deryk as the guiding agent here, but I think Llymlaen, the Opo-opo if I'm right, is the real mastermind. We do gravitate towards the Opo-opo first after all, and Llymlaen is the Navigator.

I'm expecting the 2nd tier to follow Menphina > Halone > Althyk > Nophica, as a reverse order cycle of the first one. (the gates being on the opposite side of Omphalos in that order)
It also suits the mood of the raid too, we've faced the most aggressive elements under the impression that they were a real threat. Now that we're aware it's simply a "trial", the more passive elements of Ice and Earth suit for more reserved characters, the stoic warriors in contrast to the passion of Fire/Lightning.
Menphina: Skillet or Shield, defensive stuff with a lunar twist like Tsukiyomi.
Halone: Spear obviously, lots of Shiva similarities, maybe even dragon-adjacent Dragoon inspired mechs, stardiver/akh morn etc.
Althyk: Greataxe, time/space manipulation, more direct Earth-element content, think Titan/Sephirot.
Nophica: Scythe, more plant-based motifs, think Sephirot/Titania.

The 3rd tier then following Nymeia > Thaliak > Oschon > Llymlaen. Completely mixing up the order, but it does follow a pattern, each element has it's city-state patron as the 2nd fight, with the starting city-states as the final of each raid so that they can have their own battle theme.
Nymeia: Spinning Wheel, probably mechs that involve flowing fabric that transforms into water.
Thaliak: Staff and Scroll, gonna be hard pressed to differentiate this from Seiryu mechanically, lots of flooding.
Oschon: Bow, Bard stuff obviously, we haven't really fought any Bard enemies have we?
Llymlaen: Harpoon, sea/ocean setting with more direct wind stuff, so Garuda style tornadoes, chyrabdis, etc.

If we don't get a "SEE, THE MONKEY WAS SUSPICIOUS!" response when it is revealed as a deity/familiar, I'll be a little miffed haha.

I definitely like the idea of him as Oschon. Before reading any theories I was certain he was a deity and a lone deity of wanderers is perfect.

Based on his trepidation after the fight, I do bet there will be some drama though. It didn't come off like he's going "tee-hee-hee I know more than you do" or acting when he withdraws from us at the end. Has he lost his memory that he's a god, and the monkey is leading him without him knowing? Is he in on it but having issues with his coworkers/family/partner? I'm super interested in seeing if there is any dialogue when we face Menphina.

The first 1/2 of this raid had me rolling my eyes and going "well this is weird, just gonna like, kill the gods, I guess?" but I'm excited to see how it ends now.

I do want to lay down one thing that I hope will happen as we learn the true identities of all these mysteriously intelligent animals: That the shoebill will be none of them. Additional dialog will reveal that the shoebill is just a shoebill, it's just a normal-ass animal that likes staring at people sometimes.

Because the best possible thing they could reveal about the shoebill given everyone's theories is to say that we were making a big deal out of just a normal bird.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I do want to lay down one thing that I hope will happen as we learn the true identities of all these mysteriously intelligent animals: That the shoebill will be none of them. Additional dialog will reveal that the shoebill is just a shoebill, it's just a normal-ass animal that likes staring at people sometimes.

Because the best possible thing they could reveal about the shoebill given everyone's theories is to say that we were making a big deal out of just a normal bird.

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I hate the shoebill nowadays. It was a funny thing at the start of ShB but it overstayed the joke and the Ancient-related speculation means that I can't wait for the replacement joke minion.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I do want to lay down one thing that I hope will happen as we learn the true identities of all these mysteriously intelligent animals: That the shoebill will be none of them. Additional dialog will reveal that the shoebill is just a shoebill, it's just a normal-ass animal that likes staring at people sometimes.

Because the best possible thing they could reveal about the shoebill given everyone's theories is to say that we were making a big deal out of just a normal bird.

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i love how meteions attempt at reading its emotions results in nothing lol.

Since this thread seems to be becoming the de facto 'Alliance Raid Disussion Thread', something's just occurred to me about them:

In real life pantheistic societies, when a new big-deal thing is discovered or invented, it was usually tacked on to the domains of existing gods. (Sometimes they made new gods, but that was rarer.) That's how you get those Greek and Roman gods with a bunch of weird unconnected domains, because the gods don't actually exist as singular, static beings; you can just say this new form of metalworking is now Hephaestus' domain, Hephaestus isn't gonna get mad at you for giving him more work to do.

But the Twelve are interesting because they actually are singular, relatively static deities. And yet in the raids so far we've already got Byregot, a god of industry wielding a blacksmith's hammer, and Nald'thal, a god of commerce who uses merchants' scales and has the symbol of an ancient form of currency. And those are just basic features of their being, there isn't a Byregot or Nald'thal without those things.

Doesn't it stand to reason, then, that Byregot and Nald'thal could not have come into being in a world that didn't already have industry, blacksmith's hammers, commerce, merchants' scales, and that specific form of currency? And that doesn't just preclude societies that hadn't invented them yet, but also potentially the late-day Ancients themselves, who used creation magic and so wouldn't have had a concept of a blacksmith's hammer, or possibly currencies.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Since this thread seems to be becoming the de facto 'Alliance Raid Disussion Thread', something's just occurred to me about them:

In real life pantheistic societies, when a new big-deal thing is discovered or invented, it was usually tacked on to the domains of existing gods. (Sometimes they made new gods, but that was rarer.) That's how you get those Greek and Roman gods with a bunch of weird unconnected domains, because the gods don't actually exist as singular, static beings; you can just say this new form of metalworking is now Hephaestus' domain, Hephaestus isn't gonna get mad at you for giving him more work to do.

But the Twelve are interesting because they actually are singular, relatively static deities. And yet in the raids so far we've already got Byregot, a god of industry wielding a blacksmith's hammer, and Nald'thal, a god of commerce who uses merchants' scales and has the symbol of an ancient form of currency. And those are just basic features of their being, there isn't a Byregot or Nald'thal without those things.

Doesn't it stand to reason, then, that Byregot and Nald'thal could not have come into being in a world that didn't already have industry, blacksmith's hammers, commerce, merchants' scales, and that specific form of currency? And that doesn't just preclude societies that hadn't invented them yet, but also potentially the late-day Ancients themselves, who used creation magic and so wouldn't have had a concept of a blacksmith's hammer, or possibly currencies.

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two possible answers i can think of is:

1) they came to be because of the sundering.
or
2) they represent the spirit behind each of their domains and their forms match the current understanding of it.

I've done a lot of disagreeing in these replies...

Deryk is certainly something suspicious but I think people are reading too much onto certain details that didn't seem significant to me.

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Originally Posted by MercuryD

There's also the whole thing about the small animals being the 12's forms when they don't fully reveal themselves and it looks like his may be a fish which you can see in Omphalos swimming.

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Thalia seems far more likely to be represented by the owlet.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Plus the hair piece and the way they keep making sure we notice it

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There isn't anything special about the hair piece (it's the male version of the Obsolete healer hairpin from Paradigm's Breach) and I don't think they've made a special deal of it. It does stick out a little oddly but that's a fault of the gear design itself.

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Originally Posted by DaemonInazuma

The baby Opo-opo is either Althyk or Nophica's familiar. My bet is on Nophica if she is the final boss in the 6.3 raid. Opo-opo are located in the North Shroud for reference near Hyrstmill.

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I wouldn't read too much into that. The exact names ones might be there, but it's a pretty common enemy type and the names don't always correspond to significance.

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Originally Posted by DaemonInazuma

My guess on the final alter Krile mentions is probably the gateway to the Seven Hells and my bet is that the Twelve guard that realm in order to make sure people who die return to the atherial sea (Underworld) instead of going to the Seven Hells.

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Given that the other portals lead to the six elemental heavens, the likely inference is that the central gate leads to the seventh. The question is what that might be.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

My apologies if this is already answered somewhere - but this shot was extremely suspicious. Are those symbols meaningful in any way?

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I'm not even sure what "symbols" you're pointing to. The tiny decorations on the wristbands? The belt? It's all standard player equipment (the wristbands are Ronkan Bracelets) and I don't feel like they're trying to make a feature on any symbols here.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

I hate the shoebill nowadays. It was a funny thing at the start of ShB but it overstayed the joke and the Ancient-related speculation means that I can't wait for the replacement joke minion.

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I thought the ambystoma was the replacement? Much cuter and a lot easier to pick up as a player minion, too.

Considering that there were some quirky Ancients who chose to create new life through natural methods like selective breeding rather then creation magicks, I feel like the same might've applied to other pursuits as well, in which case tools would've been needed.

The mention that this story arc is meant to be an "epilogue" to the Hydaelyn/Zodiark conflict still has me leaning towards the Twelve being a safety measure on the part of Venat and her followers to ensure mankind didn't just die off after the Sundering, though.

Thanks for the info on the wristbands. Those were indeed what I was referring to. The shot in question does very weirdly dwell on them… I’ll have to do a little more digging.

Edit:
Is it normal for characters on the Source to wear armor from the First? Maybe that’s the clue in itself - and not the symbols…

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

Is it normal for characters on the Source to wear armor from the First? Maybe that’s the clue in itself - and not the symbols…

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It's fairly common for the character designers to ignore the origins of the gear piece if it suits the look they're after. For an example running the other way, the tank quest guy in the First is wearing Alliance gear from the Ghimlyt Dark, and Matoya's Relict drops copies of Voeburtite gear from Dohn Mheg. Though if I recall correctly, the Voeburtite characters we saw in flashbacks were wearing Dravanian and Void Ark sets... and so on and back and forth.

Basically, clothes are clothes and the average Eorzean doesn't seem limited to the shops and sources we have for gameplay purposes.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's fairly common for the character designers to ignore the origins of the gear piece if it suits the look they're after. For an example running the other way, the tank quest guy in the First is wearing Alliance gear from the Ghimlyt Dark, and Matoya's Relict drops copies of Voeburtite gear from Dohn Mheg. Though if I recall correctly, the Voeburtite characters we saw in flashbacks were wearing Dravanian and Void Ark sets... and so on and back and forth.

Basically, clothes are clothes and the average Eorzean doesn't seem limited to the shops and sources we have for gameplay purposes.

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Fair enough and thanks. It’s an odd shot though. The camera wants us to notice something. Just not sure what then if not his clothing?

My running theory is either

A) He's (and the gods) are Venat's Backup Plan, created by Hydaelyn in the event of her falling. They use creation magic much like the rabbits.

B) He's an ancient; The Oppo is his familiar. Possibly Ascian..but I wouldn't commit to that.

C) And also possibly Oschon

D) Alternatively, they are all familiars of Venat or other ancients; they're actually the minion/animals going around, but can "become" god like, much like the creatures such as Byakko.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

Fair enough and thanks. It’s an odd shot though. The camera wants us to notice something. Just not sure what then if not his clothing?

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Probably his hands, and the fact he's a little anxious. This is just before he leaves because he's not as comfortable in a crowd as the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

Fair enough and thanks. It’s an odd shot though. The camera wants us to notice something. Just not sure what then if not his clothing?

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It just looks like an arty shot to me. A little more tense than just the usual talking heads.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Probably his hands, and the fact he's a little anxious. This is just before he leaves because he's not as comfortable in a crowd as the rest of us.

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Probably this, yes.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

Fair enough and thanks. It’s an odd shot though. The camera wants us to notice something. Just not sure what then if not his clothing?

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i think theyre meant to be similar to the fist clenching scenes. as in, he doesn't feel comfortable surrounded by allies so he clenches his hands.

I suppose we’ll have to wait and see then. I do find that shot suspicious. It could be just a shot to express Deryk’s emotional state - but it would be interesting if it conveyed something more. If it does turn out to be a plot point that he’s wearing Ronkan armor - that could lead to some revealing story beats - especially for Y’shtola.

The use of gearsets for NPCs without regard to lore drives me crazy at times, so I'm reading nothing into the Ronkan gear. (Am I still extremely bitter that the flashbacks to Voeburt show NONE of the characters in the gorgeous Voeburtine gear, especially as a Roe player who had been craving a Landsknecht or Reslaufer aesthetic and was over the moon to have a nation-state that would have fulfilled all my dreams? yes, yes I am).

I took a look at the Astrologian cards and the Arrow depicts Oschon and dude has similar hair to the one in that picture. Thaliak is the dude on the Ewer. Also Althyk is supposed to be wielding a mythril greataxe and Dreyk doesn't look like he could even lift one let alone wield one.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I do want to lay down one thing that I hope will happen as we learn the true identities of all these mysteriously intelligent animals: That the shoebill will be none of them. Additional dialog will reveal that the shoebill is just a shoebill, it's just a normal-ass animal that likes staring at people sometimes.

Because the best possible thing they could reveal about the shoebill given everyone's theories is to say that we were making a big deal out of just a normal bird.

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I'm pretty sure the Shoebill is/was Emet-Selch's Familiar no? It would explain why it followed us throughout Shadowbringers, and why it appeared in Elpis just after we did. We first see it there after we go off with Meteion when he's meeting with Hermes. It would be very on brand for Emet to keep an eye on us, considering he is technically responsible for allowing us into Elpis at that point.

Or was this debunked somewhere that I missed?

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Originally Posted by iphiastos

I'm pretty sure the Shoebill is/was Emet-Selch's Familiar no? It would explain why it followed us throughout Shadowbringers, and why it appeared in Elpis just after we did. We first see it there after we go off with Meteion when he's meeting with Hermes. It would be very on brand for Emet to keep an eye on us, considering he is technically responsible for allowing us into Elpis at that point.

Or was this debunked somewhere that I missed?

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Literally never once stated at any point in the game, just assumed by players.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Literally never once stated at any point in the game, just assumed by players.

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While technically true, it is heavily implied to be connected to Emet in some way, as it appears in situations where he might want to keep an eye on you. Moreover that it is the minion dropped in the dungeon leading up the final confrontation with him.

Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but similar things are done in other dungeons such as the Starbird in EW.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

While technically true, it is heavily implied to be connected to Emet in some way, as it appears in situations where he might want to keep an eye on you. Moreover that it is the minion dropped in the dungeon leading up the final confrontation with him.

Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but similar things are done in other dungeons such as the Starbird in EW.

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I do worry for the Emets mind then, considering what Meteion said about the shoebill :P

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

I do worry for the Emets mind then, considering what Meteion said about the shoebill :P

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The line about it being void of feeling? That just reinforced it for me as a familiar. Of anyone, Emet strikes me as the type who would make en entirely functional “camera drone” familiar without need of its own thought. Essentially he would be the guy who has security cams but not AI operating it.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

The line about it being void of feeling? That just reinforced it for me as a familiar. Of anyone, Emet strikes me as the type who would make en entirely functional “camera drone” familiar without need of its own thought. Essentially he would be the guy who has security cams but not AI operating it.

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I guess I just assumed after the shoebill sidequest that they were gonna leave it ambiguous on what exactly is going on there. Like the beavers lol

Part of why I doubt Deryk is Oschon is just the obviousness of it. Then again… there was the Exarch and Graha

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Originally Posted by kaynide

The line about it being void of feeling? That just reinforced it for me as a familiar. Of anyone, Emet strikes me as the type who would make en entirely functional “camera drone” familiar without need of its own thought. Essentially he would be the guy who has security cams but not AI operating it.

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Eh, if that was the case then it wouldn't get irritated at us for touching (hugging? I forget.) it in that one quest in Elpis. The annoyance is brief, but its there. lol


Either the shoebill is gonna turn out to have been one of the twelve in animal form, or its just never gonna get explained, imo. (Or it'll show up 7 years from now to lead us to a reincarnated Hyth and Hades as a character intro.)

Speaking of things that aren't explained, that ball of green light was left in the post-explosion ultima cutscene, even after the revamp of the MSQ dungeons. I still hold a tin foil torch for that thing being a real Thing and not just a visual glitch. Maybe one of the residents in the omphalos who regularly turn into green balls of light will make mention of it? Especially if the twelve really did have some kind of connection/deal with Hydaelyn. She had just gotten done shielding us (4 times, counting the new fight's mechanics) and draining her power in that scene. Maybe one of them sensed the disturbance in the force and came to investigate.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I was thinking more along the lines of Oschon because of his green color theming and the fact that he's an explorer.

The opo-opo is obviously a thing, unless either it or Deryk are red herrings but funnily enough ever since 1.0 I thought that Llymlaen's symbol looked more like a monkey than waves/wind and both Oschon and Llymlaen are wind.

Coincidence?!

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If you combine this with the quest explicitly having you go to the opo opo first and then later showing you that the gods become cute critters in Rhalgr's yeah it all adds up.

My other theory is that the 12 are actually the original convocation with Venat who made Hydalen a thing because it always seemed odd that they left that part out of EW's campaign.

They also have had a lot of things pointed out that the spiral structures from Amarout are seen in the raids including the little hubs when you first walk in.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Eh, if that was the case then it wouldn't get irritated at us for touching (hugging? I forget.) it in that one quest in Elpis. The annoyance is brief, but its there. lol


Either the shoebill is gonna turn out to have been one of the twelve in animal form, or its just never gonna get explained, imo. (Or it'll show up 7 years from now to lead us to a reincarnated Hyth and Hades as a character intro.)

Speaking of things that aren't explained, that ball of green light was left in the post-explosion ultima cutscene, even after the revamp of the MSQ dungeons. I still hold a tin foil torch for that thing being a real Thing and not just a visual glitch. Maybe one of the residents in the omphalos who regularly turn into green balls of light will make mention of it? Especially if the twelve really did have some kind of connection/deal with Hydaelyn. She had just gotten done shielding us (4 times, counting the new fight's mechanics) and draining her power in that scene. Maybe one of them sensed the disturbance in the force and came to investigate.

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Nophica just watching us with popcorn

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I agree with Oschon, and I'm going with the Opo-opo being Llymlean, as it appears they travel in pairs of their respective element.
There's a lot of focus on Deryk as the guiding agent here, but I think Llymlaen, the Opo-opo if I'm right, is the real mastermind. We do gravitate towards the Opo-opo first after all, and Llymlaen is the Navigator.

I'm expecting the 2nd tier to follow Menphina > Halone > Althyk > Nophica, as a reverse order cycle of the first one. (the gates being on the opposite side of Omphalos in that order)
It also suits the mood of the raid too, we've faced the most aggressive elements under the impression that they were a real threat. Now that we're aware it's simply a "trial", the more passive elements of Ice and Earth suit for more reserved characters, the stoic warriors in contrast to the passion of Fire/Lightning.
Menphina: Skillet or Shield, defensive stuff with a lunar twist like Tsukiyomi.
Halone: Spear obviously, lots of Shiva similarities, maybe even dragon-adjacent Dragoon inspired mechs, stardiver/akh morn etc.
Althyk: Greataxe, time/space manipulation, more direct Earth-element content, think Titan/Sephirot.
Nophica: Scythe, more plant-based motifs, think Sephirot/Titania.

The 3rd tier then following Nymeia > Thaliak > Oschon > Llymlaen. Completely mixing up the order, but it does follow a pattern, each element has it's city-state patron as the 2nd fight, with the starting city-states as the final of each raid so that they can have their own battle theme.
Nymeia: Spinning Wheel, probably mechs that involve flowing fabric that transforms into water.
Thaliak: Staff and Scroll, gonna be hard pressed to differentiate this from Seiryu mechanically, lots of flooding.
Oschon: Bow, Bard stuff obviously, we haven't really fought any Bard enemies have we?
Llymlaen: Harpoon, sea/ocean setting with more direct wind stuff, so Garuda style tornadoes, chyrabdis, etc.

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On second watch, it seems Deryk refers to the opo-opo as a 'He'. Not entirely out of the question that "he" is misgendered but it does seem less convincing.

I'm firmly in the theory camp now that the Opo-opo is Oschon - but Deryk is a servant like Rhaglr's eagle or Azemya's lions, in a fun twist.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

I'm firmly in the theory camp now that the Opo-opo is Oschon - but Deryk is a servant like Rhaglr's eagle or Azemya's lions, in a fun twist.

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Also worth noting that in the creation myth, Oschon did not come from 'the whorl' like the other gods, so could have a different origin, could be different in nature, or may play a different role to the other eleven. Either way, it definitely has him as 99% either Deryk or the opo-opo to me.

If the Opo opo is Oschon I hope they use it in a way that makes sense and enriches the story.

Not 'lawl we so random and funny XD'

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

If the Opo opo is Oschon I hope they use it in a way that makes sense and enriches the story.

Not 'lawl we so random and funny XD'

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When have they ever done that, outside of Hildibrand? We're probably fine.

Did anyone call what the black coeurl kitten Shanoa would turn out to be in the Alexander raid? Honestly the biggest twist for Myths would be if neither Deryk nor the opo-opo are somehow an aspect of one of the Twelve. But I'm expecting something out-of-left-field that I could never predict for either 6.3 or 6.5's a raid. 12 gods and 12 bosses is too neat; I don't trust it.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

When have they ever done that, outside of Hildibrand? We're probably fine.

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The introduction to the alchemists at the Great Work comes to mind. "OMG something happened and they've all collapsed! No, lol, they just worked themselves to exhaustion and lay down in the middle of the path for some reason and now they're all ready to wake up".

It all came across as creepy to me, like something was really wrong and nobody was remarking on it, but the game just never even addressed it so I think we were supposed to see it as unconcerning.

I think they're letting the Hildibrand animators loose onto MSQ at times and it always irritates me.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I think they're letting the Hildibrand animators loose onto MSQ at times and it always irritates me.

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Maybe a bad choice of words, because they legitimately do that, and have for years. Hildibrand was intended to be sort of an animation testbed, to learn the ways they can push the cutscene engine that's low-stakes and with more room for error. Wacky camera-mugging and pratfalls ultimately test the same animation skills as complex facial expressions and fight scenes, after all. Couldn't have pulled off Teledji's death or Tesleen's turning without Hildibrand, and it shows with both.

That scene in Thavnair was definitely a comedic beat, but I don't think it was nearly on the level that Necrotica worries about of completely throwing out long-term buildup and mystery. The uncertainty at the Great Work lasted less than one cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The introduction to the alchemists at the Great Work comes to mind. "OMG something happened and they've all collapsed! No, lol, they just worked themselves to exhaustion and lay down in the middle of the path for some reason and now they're all ready to wake up".

It all came across as creepy to me, like something was really wrong and nobody was remarking on it, but the game just never even addressed it so I think we were supposed to see it as unconcerning.

I think they're letting the Hildibrand animators loose onto MSQ at times and it always irritates me.

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This might be wild speculation, but I think it's not so much "lol so random", but rather a comedic way to introduce something that might be more consequential in the future, perhaps far in the future.

For example, consider that the whole bit about Thancred being able to operate under conditions where he cannot breathe and his "preternatural lung capacity" originally came from a Monkey Island reference back in Stormblood. Started from "I can hold my breath for ten minutes, and also have experience in selling fine leather waistcoats", and progressed into "can suppress his aether against Ranjit" and "take a swipe at Meteion in a place with no oxygen".

So for the case of "alchemists work themselves so hard that they pass out", there could be something much later that brings up that habit of theirs. Nidhana in 6.1 even mentions that she and her colleagues have experience in staying up for multiple days working on stuff, with regards to the synthetic Atomos.

Now, I don't think it's some important foreshadowing set up in advance. It is, however, one potential source of future plot beats, that the writers can look back upon and go "hey, what if we took the implications of this scene and extrapolated them into something more major".

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

When have they ever done that, outside of Hildibrand? We're probably fine.

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Oddly enough, we had some weird moments in the latest patch, with the camera lingering way too long making the scenes feel...awkward.

Good scenes..but coulda used a little more polish.

Spoilers, I guess?

-Y'shtola's "Froth and Foam"
-Avoiding Eye contact for way too long after the dungeon

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Oddly enough, we had some weird moments in the latest patch, with the camera lingering way too long making the scenes feel...awkward.

Good scenes..but coulda used a little more polish.

Spoilers, I guess?

-Y'shtola's "Froth and Foam"
-Avoiding Eye contact for way too long after the dungeon

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Ah see I loved the timing in those moments, really fit for me honestly.

On Deryk and the Opo Opo, I agree with those saying its the Opo Opo thats Oschon. On who Deryk is, I think he's just a normal wanderer that did indeed find Oschon as an Opo and tried to help him. Oschon then joined him as a fellow explorer, until the time came for the gods to invite mortals to their realm. I wouldn't be surprised if he's not trying to get Deryk to connect with others a bit on top of accomplishing whatever the gods seem to be hoping for. That definitely sounds like something the writers would angle for I think.