Let's Talk About SAMURAI

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bureda

SAM is also the poster child for this game, it's always top tier in ALL content, since its a very console friendly AFK job with lots of big numbers. Don't expect that to die down any time soon.

---

Wtf are you talking about? SAM is literally the second worst melee in endgame pve content in total damage output contribution, and doesn't even offer utility to compensate like SMN does.

Some are just mad about the one-shot ability. That's all. Else the class isn't "that" strong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sidamel

Some are just mad about the one-shot ability. That's all. Else the class isn't "that" strong.

---

It's fairly commonly agreed that NIN and SAM are two of the most effective jobs overall due to the insane amount of burst they can output in a few GCDs with minimal setup involved.

Their LBs are honestly just icing on the cake.

I should add that I'm frontliner and I only see it from that point of view.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Espri

Wtf are you talking about? SAM is literally the second worst melee in endgame pve content in total damage output contribution, and doesn't even offer utility to compensate like SMN does.

---

:clown emoji: here's some attention for your statement. Go google some performances.

As a Healer, i think the best way to deal with SAM and friends, is to not deal with them at all. I always focus target the worst one and make sure he cant draw LoS to me OR is out of range (unless hes not paying me any attention).

Worked quite well so far for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KageTokage

It's fairly commonly agreed that NIN and SAM are two of the most effective jobs overall due to the insane amount of burst they can output in a few GCDs with minimal setup involved.

Their LBs are honestly just icing on the cake.

---

NIN needs more burst. After Silver you won't be able to harass anyone with an opener. Also, that burst has a 30 second cooldown which is years in PVP. However you do need to stop a ninja from chain executing when they ult with cc. That is situational, however SAM has the highest burst in the game whilst getting defensive stats. NIN and RDM you have to select consciously between going defensive or offensive. However, as it stands now. SAM has insane damage and very short cooldowns and is FACTUALLY tankier than the tanks. I can burst a warrior, a paladin and a drk but it's a challenge to burst an active Samurai, they end up mitigating a lot because they get rewarded for offensive actions and make no discerning decisions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bureda

:clown emoji: here's some attention for your statement. Go google some performances.

---

... you mean the objective numbers proving me right? If you're saying to google some performances you know where to check for aggregate data on savage performance. The numbers don't lie. That's even with the buffs - sort by 1 day old, you're still wrong.

If you want more proof, check how many of the top 10 speed kills for P4S have SAM. The answer is zero.

I mean, there is a reason literally every match has 2 Sams. But its already to late. They all in Crystal now.

The one shot ability is okay if the team wouldnt constanly ignore it.

Of course the japanese developers would make samurai overpowered... I wonder if they actually know that the real samurai were mainly mounted archers? I had a duel with a sam yesterday at an ast, we kept going for 15 mins until he just let me try to kill him before he could self heal himself, so toss in a lot of self heal with the list... The PvP mode is new, so balance is yet to be hammered out, but here is an area where I feel they would heavily have benefitted from public testing before rolling it out. Square has a long and storied history with admittedly earned pride, but sometimes they just don't know best and need to admit it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sidamel

Some are just mad about the one-shot ability. That's all. Else the class isn't "that" strong.

---

What about it's Bind abilities in it's normal rotation? Purify will only last so long until its on cooldown, but that Bind won't be.

It's not a skill that you can simply use at will and there are more classes that can do CC below the purify cd.

Beside how many times do you really do a 1 vs 1?

It's an AoE Bind and in CC, constantly.

Another hotfix patch please with some samurai pvp nerfs.

I agree totally, looking at BLM and playing it is a nightmare lol. Long cast time, mediocre damage

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiao-Ken

What about it's Bind abilities in it's normal rotation? Purify will only last so long until its on cooldown, but that Bind won't be.

---

As a BLM this happens to me way too often.
SAM: * dashes and binds me*
me: *purify and guard*
SAM: *notices I used "Purify" and dashes and binds me again*
me: *cant guard or anything just insta-dead from a middare and ogi namakiri*

Monk at least is fair and give me a fighting chance and also RDM needs to be nerfed as well.

5 seconds

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ocelittelot

As a BLM this happens to me way too often.
SAM: * dashes and binds me*
me: *purify and guard*
SAM: *notices I used "Purify" and dashes and binds me again*
me: *cant guard or anything just insta-dead from a middare and ogi namakiri*

Monk at least is fair and give me a fighting chance and also RDM needs to be nerfed as well.

5 seconds

---

Blizzard > Paradox > Superflare. 3 second Deep Freeze. If they Purify it, wait out the purify and then either build another Deep Freeze or use Night Wing and Sprint/Guard during the Half-Asleep timer. Make sure to come out of Guard just before Sleep kicks in, so you have 4 seconds to get out of there.

I'm generally not one to jump on the whole "this is busted/broken/nerf" train, but after doing a LOT of pvp in both FL and CC over the past few days with several different jobs, SAM is BY FAR the most ridiculously overpowered pvp job in the game. High damage, high crowd control, high mitigation. There's no weakness. No downside. PVP as a whole has been pretty jacked since the update, but this is ridiculous. Did they playtest this crap at all?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Qeilos

That seems unfun tbh, regarding it procing, my entire kit is aoe aside from ruin. Just by existing i stand to fail the "just dont hit him 4head"

---

'Don't hit him 4head' also includes don't be inside of a group that is hitting him when he has chiten + ult up. You can also consider using your binds as another weakness of Zantetsuken is that its a movement ability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

I'm generally not one to jump on the whole "this is busted/broken/nerf" train, but after doing a LOT of pvp in both FL and CC over the past few days with several different jobs, SAM is BY FAR the most ridiculously overpowered pvp job in the game. High damage, high crowd control, high mitigation. There's no weakness. No downside. PVP as a whole has been pretty jacked since the update, but this is ridiculous. Did they playtest this crap at all?

---

I agree. I main SAM for a reason and they really have too much going for their kit that its ridiculous.

Though their weakness is as follows, take advantage of it if you can.

- Chiten is a 30 sec cooldown and its only up for 5 seconds. Kuzuki lasts 3 sec, so just stun/silence and run.
- Zantetsuken like many Melee LBs are a movement ability, a bind will shut their ult down
- Useless once Midare and Ogi is down so if they are out of these two, feel free to press the attack. Both are 20 sec CD
- Try your best to be healthy (duh) but you would not believe how many people are complacent with their health. Their finish combo usually involves a stun when the enemy is low then channeling Ogi (usually 24k if teammates not around) or Midare (usually 16k)

Sam yesterday killed all 5 of us instantly we had left him last to kill and boom we were all dead.

I wanna see Yoshida PVP and get 1 shot by a samurai so badly.
His reaction would be priceless to me.
Please Nerf SE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moonlite

Sam yesterday killed all 5 of us instantly we had left him last to kill and boom we were all dead.

---

Leaving a SAM alive, not CCing them, sticking together are such mistakes

The limit break is too strong, but their actual kit is too weak. If they nerf the LB, they have to buff the kit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NamazuFanatic

The limit break is too strong, but their actual kit is too weak. If they nerf the LB, they have to buff the kit.

---

Samurai has a weak kit? What world are you living in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bureda

Samurai has a weak kit? What world are you living in.

---

weak as each skill have long cooldown... plus midare and ogi come with huge trouble.
midare force you to use your purify skill and ogi have a casting time.... if you move behind the sam get a free pass out of ogi.

and honestly other jobs have stronger kit out... then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

weak as each skill have long cooldown... plus midare and ogi come with huge trouble.
midare force you to use your purify skill and ogi have a casting time.... if you move behind the sam get a free pass out of ogi.

and honestly other jobs have stronger kit out... then.

---

The number of people that stays within ogi's range is astounding. The sound cue for it is very distinct and it takes about 2s to cast and they can't move during that. Meanwhile, i've seen people just facetank it because they have no idea what the sam is doing and just see red when attacking until it's too late... Hey, it's just like their LB!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NotReallyMistral

The number of people that stays within ogi's range is astounding. The sound cue for it is very distinct and it takes about 2s to cast and they can't move during that. Meanwhile, i've seen people just facetank it because they have no idea what the sam is doing and just see red when attacking until it's too late... Hey, it's just like their LB!

---

i feel a looot of people complain about the sam because they don't try to adapt for face the sam and get punished because of this. while some other job are godlike... like warrior. some other dps have better survivability that the sam, the simple fact that we need to use mekyo for get midare while this one serve as purify skill is stupid...
sam have long cooldown, the slowest charging lb and they complain that it have some stuff for him...

chiten have 30 sec cd for 5 sec duration... honestly in a match that can go for 1-4 minutes you don't have it often same for the lb... in a match of 4 minutes if i have the lb two time i'm lucky. plus i feel some other lb have more damage potential and can be game changer far more than zantetsuten.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

weak as each skill have long cooldown... plus midare and ogi come with huge trouble.
midare force you to use your purify skill and ogi have a casting time.... if you move behind the sam get a free pass out of ogi.

and honestly other jobs have stronger kit out... then.

---

They have a oneshot burst combo and the strongest single target stun in the game available every 20 seconds. In what world is that a long cooldown?

Soten -> Hyosetsu -> Meikyo -> Ogi -> Soten -> Kaeshi -> Mineuchi -> Midare -> Soten -> 56-61k damage (full single-target) with a 4 GCD burst combo

The only counterplay to that combo is Purify and/or Guard, which can counter pretty much any non-LB combo in the game, or wasting a silence, certain LBs or the WHM poly just to stop the SAM from doing a combo that they can just repeat 20 seconds later. There's also numerous ways to change the above combo for quicker burst if you just need to assist in a kill, which obviously happens more frequently.

A SAM literally has a 2 second AoE bind, a 3 second stun and 3 seconds of almost complete cc-immunity and people talk about how hard it is to get 1.3 second casts off lol. Wild.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NotReallyMistral

The number of people that stays within ogi's range is astounding. The sound cue for it is very distinct and it takes about 2s to cast and they can't move during that. Meanwhile, i've seen people just facetank it because they have no idea what the sam is doing and just see red when attacking until it's too late... Hey, it's just like their LB!

---

You cannot move yourself if the team is smart and holds you down so the SAM can hit. And if you have an enemy WAR, you're going to be held down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiao-Ken

...The Samurai is heavily indoctrinated...

---

Wut??? That word doesn't mean what you think it means....

Imagine suggesting Japanese culture has been brainwashed about Samurai's, something that is a serious part of their history and culture... and then saying "no offense"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aeoncs

They have a oneshot burst combo and the strongest single target stun in the game available every 20 seconds. In what world is that a long cooldown?

Soten -> Hyosetsu -> Meikyo -> Ogi -> Soten -> Kaeshi -> Mineuchi -> Midare -> Soten -> 56-61k damage (full single-target) with a 4 GCD burst combo

The only counterplay to that combo is Purify and/or Guard, which can counter pretty much any non-LB combo in the game, or wasting a silence, certain LBs or the WHM poly just to stop the SAM from doing a combo that they can just repeat 20 seconds later. There's also numerous ways to change the above combo for quicker burst if you just need to assist in a kill, which obviously happens more frequently.

A SAM literally has a 2 second AoE bind, a 3 second stun and 3 seconds of almost complete cc-immunity and people talk about how hard it is to get 1.3 second casts off lol. Wild.

---

two word... team play. if your team let the samurai alone for do his combo... and more important 1vs1 you do something wrong! sam is at the strongest when facing one target... it's not hard to stun him or root him simply gank him! and 4 gcd... you means a bout 10 sec... when yes you have a stun of 3 sec... guard? recuperate?

a 20 sec combo that can be easily counter by simply cast 1-2 recuperate or use your guard is not a bad trade off... because it means the sam is without big gun for 20 sec... a free kill. no more meikyo for flee... no more stun... and if your team come help... it's over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You cannot move yourself if the team is smart and holds you down so the SAM can hit. And if you have an enemy WAR, you're going to be held down.

---

well you can say this about any good dps around... if the team hold you the mnk can drop you fast, same for the nin, or the drg... it's about teamplay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiao-Ken

As for this “tactic”, hard focus the SAM opponent. You should prioritize killing the SAM first before any of the four healers that you may or may not encounter; I’ve been doing such so while notifying my intent to the other four friendlies and have won more matches this way than instead of focusing their healer rather than their SAM. This "tactic" unfortunately will make that player (SAM) have an absolute bad time for such instance. The moment that SAM returns from spawn, they should immediately be killed within 3-5 seconds after they return from spawn. I do feel bad for that player but, this is a must at the moment to ensure a more possible win. I'm not asking for SAM to be gutted into oblivion; SAM is way too overpowered to be left in its current state; Not even Reaper pales in comparison; Ninja and Dragoon are extremely good, almost on par with Reaper and then there’s... Monk.

---

yes the sam will have a bad day, but at the same it means the job do it job well... but if the sam is smart he will not jump in middle of the enemy without a plan either... tactics and such...

why dragoon and ninja are good and can easily flee of the combat if play well... that why focus them is not always the smartest... especially since ninja can pop out of nowhere with his shukuchi hard to counter this. if the nin is good he can drop and assist a dragoon and it result and a kill at each time... high jump + shukuchi and in a few second the target is dead... if it try to flee fuma shuriken... the best solution is to guard and hope for help.

the reaper dunno didn't try it and mnk... *sighs* where in the... how is possible to think that a 7 hit combo at 2 sec gcd in a fast paced pvp mode it's a good idea!! i means you need to attack for 12 sec for reach a 10k damage... and the dmg of the lb is bad... it will have been better to be at 30k it's a mono target lb for god sake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tribezer0

Wut??? That word doesn't mean what you think it means....

Imagine suggesting Japanese culture has been brainwashed about Samurai's, something that is a serious part of their history and culture... and then saying "no offense"

---

(indoctrinated might be the wrong choice of word, no ill intended but such a word has weight/impact)

Literally at the very top, first post, 2nd sentence. Also, I never wrote "no offense". Quit making up stuff. Assuming the type of person you are, based on your post, I'll go ahead and save you from stating this lie (you edited it out); no, I didn't went back to the first post and edited out. You can check the first post when it was last edited.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

two word... team play. if your team let the samurai alone for do his combo... and more important 1vs1 you do something wrong! sam is at the strongest when facing one target... it's not hard to stun him or root him simply gank him! and 4 gcd... you means a bout 10 sec... when yes you have a stun of 3 sec... guard? recuperate?

a 20 sec combo that can be easily counter by simply cast 1-2 recuperate or use your guard is not a bad trade off... because it means the sam is without big gun for 20 sec... a free kill. no more meikyo for flee... no more stun... and if your team come help... it's over.

---

Yes, team-play. Which means the SAM usually won't be attacking alone unless they catch someone in a 1v1 scenario which doesn't happen a lot, which is why I said that they have numerous ways to adjust the combo for faster burst. Meikyo & Soten -> Mineuchi -> Midare -> Soten does between 25 and 30k damage within 2.5~ seconds and is super easy to pull off, just to name one example.
A 4 GCD combo on SAM also takes 6.6 seconds, not 10. And obviously the full combo can be countered, as I said, otherwise it would be ridiculously broken - that wasn't the point of my post though.
It's also a complete exaggeration to say that SAMs are a free kill once they charge in, when they can get 16k worth of shields from Ogi and Kaeshi, a huge heal when Oka is used correctly, as well as a 50% damage reduction for 5 whole seconds with Chiten.

SAM need to be addressed ASAP is just ridiculous how a single class can turn tables with 1 button, it should be treated as a bug and fixed next minor patch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiao-Ken

(indoctrinated might be the wrong choice of word, no ill intended but such a word has weight/impact)

Literally at the very top, first post, 2nd sentence. Also, I never wrote "no offense". Quit making up stuff. Assuming the type of person you are, based on your post, I'll go ahead and save you from stating this lie (you edited it out); no, I didn't went back to the first post and edited out. You can check the first post when it was last edited.

---

Do you frequently use offensive words that have the entirely wrong meaning just because they "have impact" as you say? I guess that excuses you from offending the entire Javanese culture over a video game...

Edit: Also for someone using entirely wrong definitions of words you are quite picking about me using "no offense" in place of "no ill intended"...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tribezer0

Do you frequently use offensive words that have the entirely wrong meaning just because they "have impact" as you say? I guess that excuses you from offending the entire Javanese culture over a video game...

Edit: Also for someone using entirely wrong definitions of words you are quite picking about me using "no offense" in place of "no ill intended"...

---

"Offensive"? So, you're offended on behalf of the Japanese culture. Thanks for letting me know, I guess such a usage of word did have weight/impact huh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiao-Ken

You're offended on behalf of the Japanese culture. Thanks for letting me know, to which, I didn't ask, nor do I care about what you think or how you feel. I guess such a usage of word did have weight/impact huh?

---

You mean the wrong usage of the word? Unless you mind explaining how Japanese culture brainwashed themselves about their own culture... not to mention you suggested such an astounding thing because you're mad a Japanese based company didnt balance a video game to your liking.... nothing like subtle racism to get your point across...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tribezer0

You mean the wrong usage of the word? Unless you mind explaining how Japanese culture brainwashed themselves about their own culture... not to mention you suggested such an astounding thing because you're mad a Japanese based company didnt balance a video game to your liking.... nothing like subtle racism to get your point across...

---

Damn, look at you. Out here attempting to make a difference with your virtue signaling. I bet you also rant about the little things that you find so offensive and take it to the extreme on twitter *iT's RaCiSM, REEEEEEEEE*. Listen little boy, I will not change the usage of word, nor will I cater to your mentality.