Please stop simplifying and homogenizing the game. Please.

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Originally Posted by Demetri_Delethorn

Thankfully a strong majority disagree since it's never been more popular :)

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Too bad since its fallen back to ShB level if even lower on Steam side. Only 4 months after the launch. Same trend could be expected from the other platforms.

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Originally Posted by Gora

The game has been going downhill (from a gameplay perspective) since the release of ShB.

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That's not the abbreviation for Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Jin-

Too bad since its fallen back to ShB level if even lower on Steam side. Only 4 months after the launch. Same trend could be expected from the other platforms.

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And it'll go right back up with the new patch :)

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

Highly disagree. The purpose of the cone is to let the WAR know to reposition themselves to hit all the enemies for the party members. By and large, if the enemies are spread farther apart where you can't hit them in a conal range, then it means one of your party members will not be able to hit the target if their AoE isn't large enough. Circle AOE range doesn't allow Line-based AoE to reach all enemies as easily if they're spread too far apart, and skills that target in a circle AoE from a mob may not reach other mobs if the targeted mob's hitbox is too big. A WAR that slightly moves mobs together after that will make it easier for all the other jobs to hit the enemies. I've usually seen other tanks fail in this regard because they don't have WAR's Conal AoE to subtly indicate they need to quickly reposition for that reason as they are only focused on their own DPS rather than making it easier for the party to DPS in addition to their own.

As for aggro management, it's a non-issue for all tanks. If you're really worried about maintaining aggro as a WAR, target at least one enemy to pull aggro towards you (assuming this enemy is linked to all other mobs), then use equilibrium to generate aggro on all mobs via healing. Due to tanks having 10x aggro generation from tank stance, it's still a non-issue.

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Good lord man, have u never learned to stack mobs properly? Warrior main right here and the cone is a PITA. It also needs a target, another big PITA. Adds move while u constantly reposition for ur PITA cone. Have i mentioned that it is PITA? When SAM got its basic cone aoe replaced by a circle aoe, OMG that was like night and day. Im looking forward to this unexpected change.

I do largely agree with OP though. Kaiten removal is dumb, ninja change i feel less strongly about because i only have a rogue, but i will miss the 1 min buffs to play around with for sure. Dungeons should not be excessively difficult it is the most basic form of content that should be accessible to all and make no mistake, those less capable still struggle, it is what it is, but at least we can carry them w/o too much trouble.

For anyone having trouble pulling as warrior, just remember this: dungeon mobs are in packs. Packs will chase people down in a funny little line when they get arrgo'd. You have a ranged attack.

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Originally Posted by Demetri_Delethorn

And it'll go right back up with the new patch :)

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Give it a week and it'll go right back down. That's a whole separate issue with this games content and it's retention rate.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Give it a week and it'll go right back down. That's a whole separate issue with this games content and it's retention rate.

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I'm confused as to how this is a problem. People play when they want to and stop when they don't. Is the game supposed to capture them or something?

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Sad thing is, I think the only time they have ever acknowledged feedback was when the JP community was verbally assaulting the developers over Samurai(?). Which Yoshi had to beg players to be nicer and give constructive feedback.

And it looks like they're still ignoring JP feedback, we can be sure as hell they're ignoring ENG feedback as evident by the multiple +100 page Healer threads.

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That's because the forums are a place for the community to chat with one another. They're not and never have been a direct line to the Devs.

People always seem to think that posting game change requests here will get them heard by the development team. This is literally just a place for players to chat with other players about the game without having to use third party websites like reddit.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I'm confused as to how this is a problem. People play when they want to and stop when they don't. Is the game supposed to capture them or something?

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The game uses a monthly subscription model to make money, so it's within their interests to try to keep players around. Their continued success is closely tied to their ability to retain players.

With their current 4 month patch cycle, players are potentially spending around $48-60 usd per major patch if they remain subscribed between.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

That's because the forums are a place for the community to chat with one another. They're not and never have been a direct line to the Devs.

People always seem to think that posting game change requests here will get them heard by the development team. This is literally just a place for players to chat with other players about the game without having to use third party websites like reddit.

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Well if this isn't the place to post feedback, where is?

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

The game uses a monthly subscription model to make money, so it's within their interests to try to keep players around. Their continued success is closely tied to their ability to retain players.

With their current 4 month patch cycle, players are potentially spending around $48-60 usd per major patch if they remain subscribed between.

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And yet the director of the game flat out stated that he doesn't mind if people don't play all the time. He wants people to play multiple games.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

That's because the forums are a place for the community to chat with one another. They're not and never have been a direct line to the Devs.

People always seem to think that posting game change requests here will get them heard by the development team. This is literally just a place for players to chat with other players about the game without having to use third party websites like reddit.

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Ahh. The crippling truth.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

And yet the director of the game flat out stated that he doesn't mind if people don't play all the time. He wants people to play multiple games.

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Ah yes, Yoshida who has said things like "We will never force you to stay subbed for housing", "We're planning to add more egi glamours", or "Hrothgar and Viera will get additional race specific hairstyles over time". His entire job revolves around trying to create positive optics for this game, which in many cases is completely divorced from reality. Clearly people swallow it whole with how often this nonsensical talking-point gets parroted.

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Originally Posted by Haruka_R

Ahh. The crippling truth.

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It's only really true because the developers don't seem to care; The forums are absolutely promoted as one of the primary places to give the developers direct feedback, by the development team itself. It ends up being nonsensical to shutdown people sharing feedback here in the hopes that the forums will fulfill their intended purpose.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Ah yes, Yoshida who has said things like "We will never force you to stay subbed for housing", "We're planning to add more egi glamours", or "Hrothgar and Viera will get additional race specific hairstyles over time". His entire job revolves around trying to create positive optics for this game, which in many cases is completely divorced from reality. Clearly people swallow it whole with how often this nonsensical talking-point gets parroted.

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Do you think my bringing up his stated opinion on people subbing and unsubbing is defending those other points? Cause it's not. I just really don't see an issue with fluctuating game populations.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Do you think my bringing up his stated opinion on people subbing and unsubbing is defending those other points? Cause it's not. I just really don't see an issue with fluctuating game populations.

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No, I'm pointing out that things Yoshida say tend to reflect very little about the reality of running a game as a business. He says things about player retention not mattering because his competition in the genre are publicly known for being too heavy-handed in their attempts at creating retention systems, not because players taking breaks is a genuine objective of SE as a business. He wants to create the perception among potential and current customers that this game retains players organically, and is going so far as to publicly pretend it isn't a major internal objective.

It is absolutely not within this games interest as a business to have a decreasing retention rate. A game that makes 12-15 usd per person that is subscribed makes less money when there are less people subscribed. Regardless of what Yoshida tries to say, this game absolutely aims to hold onto as many players as possible. Housing demo, loot lockouts, tomestone caps, long relic grinds, expert delivery, etc.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

No, I'm pointing out that things Yoshida say tend to reflect very little about the reality of running a game as a business. He says things about player retention not mattering because his competition in the genre are publicly known for being too heavy-handed in their attempts at creating retention systems, not because players taking breaks is a genuine objective of SE as a business. He wants to create the perception among potential and current customers that this game retains players organically, and is going so far as to publicly pretend it isn't a major internal objective.

It is absolutely not within this games interest as a business to have a decreasing retention rate. A game that makes 12-15 usd per person that is subscribed makes less money when there are less people subscribed. Regardless of what Yoshida tries to say, this game absolutely aims to hold onto as many players as possible. Housing demo, loot lockouts, tomestone caps, long relic grinds, expert delivery, etc.

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Why exactly do you care so much about what this game does as a business? I don't care if that statement he made is genuine or not. It's a statement I agree with. I don't want a game that expects me to log in literally every day. I don't care for those kinds of systems and I don't understand why it's a problem that people sub when content comes out then unsub when they are done. You're making this sound like it matters more than it should.

Here are my thoughts as someone who started playing XIV a few months before the release of EW.

I played most of it as a BLM, without leveling any other job. I love how BLM is centered around movement: knowing when to move and where's safe to stand still so I can cast my entire Fire phase. The game gives me several movement tools like Xenoglossy and Triple Cast. Endwalker even fixed a minor issue I had, that at lower levels you have to use Fire I between both bursts of Fire IV to reset the timer, but Fire I didn't really FEEL like a proper intermediate skill... until they made Paradox. My only complaint is that Scathe is useless... That's it.

In Endwalker I decided it was time to try my hands at healing, so I became a SGE. It was fun when I was still learning how to heal properly, how to cycle through the names in the party list during combat and everything... but things started to get boring once I got the hang of it and realized that tanks barely needed my help and I spent most of my time just spamming Dosis and occasionally putting my DoT on the boss. Later I moved to Astrologian for the cards system... and it was basically the same thing.

The only times I ever have fun when playing as a healer are when my party is playing like crap. The tank not using his mit correctly, the DPS keep getting hit by avoidable AoEs and dying, so I have to rez them... That actually gives me stuff to do. But if my party is even slightly competent, I ask myself why I'm even there in the first place. WARs don't need me, and I keep throwing Celestial Intersection and Exaltation at them during tank busters for no reason just so I get something to do.

Then I moved to tanking, my choice being Dark Knight for the edgy aesthetics... and all I do is repeat the 1-2-3 combo, mindlessly weave anything that comes off cooldown and use TBN on tank busters. I don't even pay attention to my job gauge cause it's not necessary as long as I don't overcap on MP. Things got worse when I looked into the history of DRK and found how the job used to be focused around MP management, how Living Dead has been garbage for 7 years and they never fixed it despite the constant complaints from DRK players, and how many cool animations were removed from the job (Power Slash).

The only jobs I have fun with right now are BLM and RPR. Reaper isn't particularly complex, but it has some fun tools at it's disposal and the edgy aesthetics plus fast gameplay I was looking for in DRK. Arcane Crest is a nice little support that I can give my party during stacks, weaving Blood Stalk feels just right and fusing with my inner Grim Reaper with Enshroud feels badass, unlike the glorified DoT that is Living Shadow.

I thought very highly of the combat in FFXIV due to having played most of it as a BLM, but after trying other jobs and roles... I'm kinda disappointed. It's like only Yoshi-P's job has the right to be engaging and fun to play. I fear RPR will end up getting the same treatment SAM is getting now.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Inb4 FF14 is dyin—
Oh.

Yes, I'm sure that the sky is really falling this time. For reals.

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Sounds a lot like the wow forums in BFA :)

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Why exactly do you care so much about what this game does as a business?

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I’d imagine it’s blatantly obvious. How well the game does dictates how much money the game will retain and put towards new things. People should care, we’re paying customers lmao.

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Originally Posted by baklava151

Well if this isn't the place to post feedback, where is?

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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...6-Classes-Jobs

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

So i've been playing since 3.3. 14 was my first MMO. I had such a bad understanding of the game when I started that when I got to Baelsar's Wall my item level was too low. I had to ask my FC what an item level was. I (a warrior) didn't know that pulling wall to wall was normal until the healer in that group told me to. I didn't know that Alexander was a raid, I just thought it was a cool set piece in the hinterlands. I didn't know I could do Alexander each week for gear. The first extreme I did was Byakko in 4.1 and I absolutely sandbagged. I didn't use any cooldowns on the TB since I thought I was just supposed to get shielded for it.
Since then, I've cleared every savage tier since Eden's Verse on content. I've gotten every job to 80 and a little over half to 90. I'm currently progging UCOB to prepare for DSR. All this to say that though i'm somewhat hardcore now, I wasn't. I know what it's like to be totally lost in an MMO. I WAS the skill floor for a long time. I, like literally all players, got better. I learned. I had fun doing it. I know i'm not the best player in the world, nor am I a game designer. But, given what we were told in PLL 70 and the Famitsu interview from last week, i'm seriously worried about the game's design going forward. Specifically, it seems as though the devs are more and more designing the game for the lowest common denominator in terms of skill.

The job changes first.

Ninja: Making mug a two minute give a target a vuln up and turning trick attack into a personal one minute buff is the most mind boggling change i've seen. Again, who wanted this? Trick is one of the few cooldowns left that's on a one minute CD. There's a ninja in my static rn, and I, a RDM, hold my melee combo for 15 sec to better align with trick during certain points in a fight. This doesn't make ninja any simpler, this just makes it more homogenous. It's boring. That's one less thing for anyone in a party with a NIN to think about. It won't make two minute windows feel any better bc everyone's bursting there anyway.

Samurai: To reduce button bloat you're removing kaiten. Kaiten? Why? If you need to reduce button bloat (which is a problem on most jobs) you have so many better options. Ikishoten becomes Ogi Namikiri would work. Merging Shoha and Shoha 2 would work. I won't say that Kaiten is a cornerstone of the job or anything like that. Yeah, you only used it on a few skills, but that's still a bit of skill expression being lost. Plus it's one of only two or three skills you ever really spend kenki on. Oh, and guaranteed crits. No. Just no. This means that there's less synergy between Sam's, Drg's and Sch's and that's just bad. Yeah, there's a wide variance depending on what crits and what doesn't. That's the entire point of critical hits being a thing.

Warrior's AOE being simplified probably means turning overpower from a cone to a circle. This is terrible for about a dozen reasons. Number 1 being that it teaches tanks how to position in the way a basic circle wouldn't. Two is job identity. Three is, well, who on earth wanted this of all things changed?? If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

SMN: Searing light being cast by the character is a good change. Unfortunately, this means the only thing carbuncle does now is the shield. And presumably, I still can't cast the shield during a summon. So what's the point of even having carbuncle? Just for looks? Summoner needed way more help than fixing the clunkiness of searing light but there are already massive threads dedicated to that.
The rest of the changes are pretty good and i'm sure there are changed they wanted to make but held off until 6.2 because of ultimate.

Moreover, 14 is the MMO where you can play every job on one character. In other words, the barrier to entry to playing another job is literally nonexistent. Just level it up. Ergo, making every job in a role work the exact same way (every healer having lots of OGCD regens/barriers, every tank's aoe rotation being two circle aoes, every tank's cooldowns being almost identical, every melee having a personal damage/speed buff applied by a combo, every healer just spam 21111111111112 as their rotation) is pretty counterintuitive. Obsessing over job balance would make sense in a game where you're locked into one job per character. In 14, if the balance of a job is off, yeah, its less than ideal, but at least you can just switch at will. I'd more than happily trade balance for uniqueness at this point. Job balance is obviously super important and nobody likes it when their main is considered too weak to play with. I'm not saying they should intentionally imbalance things. I am saying that they shouldn't shrink away from being creative with job kits because job A might deal 3% more DPS than job B.

On to Yoshi P's comments in the interview. Specifically, when talking about testing dungeons. He said (i'm paraphrasing) the dungeon testers are himself (an orange parsing BLM), the tank is a casual player, the other DPS is a project manager and the healer has done extreme content. The healer recently left because they got too good.
Seriously, the healer, who had only done extreme content, got so good at healing that dungeons were boring them and they requested a replacement. Don't the devs think this might be a bit of an indication that healing, in general, is really messed up in 14? Just go to the healer forums on here for a peek into what healer mains think. This says to me that they're tuning the game's easiest content around the absolute lowest tier players. Not only that, when their own testing team got too good and started getting bored with it, instead of thinking "hmm, maybe that means our players aren't finding this fun either" or "hmm, maybe the players skill level is also increasing at the same rate" they just replaced them.
That's almost beyond parody. Nothing in this game under extreme content is remotely challenging. I couldn't tell you the last time I wiped in a dungeon or normal trial. I'm not asking for FFXIV to become "anal bleeding the game", I'm just asking for the devs to assume the average player's skill level increases after 300 hours of game time. Every other FF game has difficulty spikes in its main story, why shouldn't 14?

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This x100000 times. I'm so glad someone is finally telling it like it is.

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Originally Posted by Haruka_R

Ahh. The crippling truth.

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The only way for change to get done is to get the JP community upset enough

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...6-Classes-Jobs

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Healers can tell you that posting there has not been working unfortunately

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...6-Classes-Jobs

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if you'dve at least linked the JP forums you might have gotten more than a chuckle out of me

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Originally Posted by Xirean

And yet the director of the game flat out stated that he doesn't mind if people don't play all the time. He wants people to play multiple games.

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That's not really healthy for a MMO when it relies on active players for people to complete content.

I agree with OP, FFXIV was my first MMO but it's been so dumb down and homogenized that it's no longer fun for me, I was searching for a another MMO that fit my needs and that is FFXI<3

I love the hybrid and support job system the game has more diverse jobs (support jobs like Red Mage, Corsair and Dancer, flexible hybrid like Blue Mage and Puppermaster), not just a simple holy trinity (tank, healer, damage dealer) system.

which makes combat very interesting, I'm A Dancer/Warrior main

I can't see myself playing this homogenized dumbed down game much longer

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Originally Posted by ClaudeHerel

Sounds a lot like the wow forums in BFA :)

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If you go by the Blizzard forums, WoW has died at least once a week since it first launched.

If the removal of Kaiten is the direction they're taking, soul crystals might as well be changed to blank, dull rocks.

I always do wonder what the game would be like if they stuck to the ARR method of cross-job skills. Such as how if you wanted Swiftcast, you would level a Thaumaturge to level 26 at least.

Some existing examples are

Blood for Blood: For 20s, you deal 15% more damage and take 10% more damage. 80s cd. Requires leveling Lancer to 30.
Internal Release: For 15s, your criticial hit rate is increased by 30%. 60s cd. Requires leveling Pugilist to level 10.
Raging Strikes: For 20s, you deal 15% more damage. 120s cd. Requires leveling Archer to 4.
Eye for an Eye: Target a member or pet. For 20s, whenever that target is struck, there is a 20% chance the striker will deal 10% less damage for 10s. 180s cd. Requires leveling Arcanist to 34.

Then just apply Dark Knight, Astrologian, Machinist, Samurai, Red Mage, Gunbreaker, Dancer, Sage, and Reaper for what spells and abilities they have that could be cross-job with other jobs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whalaqee

I always do wonder what the game would be like if they stuck to the ARR method of cross-job skills. Such as how if you wanted Swiftcast, you would level a Thaumaturge to level 26 at least.

Some existing examples are

Blood for Blood: For 20s, you deal 15% more damage and take 10% more damage. 80s cd. Requires leveling Lancer to 30.
Internal Release: For 15s, your criticial hit rate is increased by 30%. 60s cd. Requires leveling Pugilist to level 10.
Raging Strikes: For 20s, you deal 15% more damage. 120s cd. Requires leveling Archer to 4.
Eye for an Eye: Target a member or pet. For 20s, whenever that target is struck, there is a 20% chance the striker will deal 10% less damage for 10s. 180s cd. Requires leveling Arcanist to 34.

Then just apply Dark Knight, Astrologian, Machinist, Samurai, Red Mage, Gunbreaker, Dancer, Sage, and Reaper for what spells and abilities they have that could be cross-job with other jobs.

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In ARR it was a bit of a chore but with how fast you go through those levels to unlock said crossclass skills nowadays you could finish it in an afternoon.

I agree, it's like they expect us to have the brain of a monkey or something.

Jobs are slowly but surely losing their identity.

The NIN one is so confusing. Moving the raid buff to Mug is literally the same as having two Tricks. NIN felt impactful when it had a buff every minute, now it's just the same 2 min buff to gotta hard on CD.

Same with them moving Divination off of the seal system for AST. Now it's just another button with the same impact.

And the fact they said they're going back to HW complexity is scary. At least SB had some ideas left. They think that making the job easy to play makes more players will be happy when it's the opposite.

It isn't that they are trying to simplify it that I question. It's that they don't simplify what matters.

Most PS4, PS5 and a decent amount of PC players run this game on Televisions as display outputs. A high end monitor has a 1ms or faster response time. The average television has a 15ms response time. So room wide floor disco and 'the mob waved his right arm for 1.2 seconds' as a telegraph in all instanced content post ShB is what is butchering quality. Not pushing 3-9 keys on your controller or keyboard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

So i've been playing since 3.3. 14 was my first MMO. I had such a bad understanding of the game when I started that when I got to Baelsar's Wall my item level was too low. I had to ask my FC what an item level was. I (a warrior) didn't know that pulling wall to wall was normal until the healer in that group told me to. I didn't know that Alexander was a raid, I just thought it was a cool set piece in the hinterlands. I didn't know I could do Alexander each week for gear. The first extreme I did was Byakko in 4.1 and I absolutely sandbagged. I didn't use any cooldowns on the TB since I thought I was just supposed to get shielded for it.
Since then, I've cleared every savage tier since Eden's Verse on content. I've gotten every job to 80 and a little over half to 90. I'm currently progging UCOB to prepare for DSR. All this to say that though i'm somewhat hardcore now, I wasn't. I know what it's like to be totally lost in an MMO. I WAS the skill floor for a long time. I, like literally all players, got better. I learned. I had fun doing it. I know i'm not the best player in the world, nor am I a game designer.

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Damn, this bit resonated with me pretty hard! I 100% support your takes! I am worried about the games current track too, but meh. I can just complain about it and hope they'll listen to reason!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

So i've been playing since 3.3. 14 was my first MMO. I had such a bad understanding of the game when I started that when I got to Baelsar's Wall my item level was too low. I had to ask my FC what an item level was. I (a warrior) didn't know that pulling wall to wall was normal until the healer in that group told me to. I didn't know that Alexander was a raid, I just thought it was a cool set piece in the hinterlands. I didn't know I could do Alexander each week for gear. The first extreme I did was Byakko in 4.1 and I absolutely sandbagged. I didn't use any cooldowns on the TB since I thought I was just supposed to get shielded for it.
Since then, I've cleared every savage tier since Eden's Verse on content. I've gotten every job to 80 and a little over half to 90. I'm currently progging UCOB to prepare for DSR. All this to say that though i'm somewhat hardcore now, I wasn't. I know what it's like to be totally lost in an MMO. I WAS the skill floor for a long time. I, like literally all players, got better. I learned. I had fun doing it. I know i'm not the best player in the world, nor am I a game designer. But, given what we were told in PLL 70 and the Famitsu interview from last week, i'm seriously worried about the game's design going forward. Specifically, it seems as though the devs are more and more designing the game for the lowest common denominator in terms of skill.

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Same here o/

Besides, I have a very good group of close friends IRL.
Back in the days, we were playing WoW together at various occurences over the years and its different xpac. We never were hardcore raiders, but we enjoyed the leveling experience, and eventually we all left when the leveling in WoW became dumb and boring...

After that, I tried FFXIV alone. It was during Heavensward, and at that time, I tried many times to convince my friends to join me on FFXIV.
"Guys, there is a sync option is this game ! It's awesome ! Even the first dungeons stay playables and enjoyables for new players !"
Sadly, I never succeded (because of multiple reasons), but they seemed kinda interested nonetheless.

Today, when those friends ask me if FFXIV is still that good and how it is today for new players, I'm forced to tell them that it's easier than before during leveling, and that they will even add bots for low levels dungeons.
And now, all their interest is gone... :/
"it will end like WoW, they say..."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

Samurai: To reduce button bloat you're removing kaiten. Kaiten? Why? If you need to reduce button bloat (which is a problem on most jobs) you have so many better options. Ikishoten becomes Ogi Namikiri would work. Merging Shoha and Shoha 2 would work. I won't say that Kaiten is a cornerstone of the job or anything like that. Yeah, you only used it on a few skills, but that's still a bit of skill expression being lost. Plus it's one of only two or three skills you ever really spend kenki on. Oh, and guaranteed crits. No. Just no. This means that there's less synergy between Sam's, Drg's and Sch's and that's just bad. Yeah, there's a wide variance depending on what crits and what doesn't. That's the entire point of critical hits being a thing.

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i want to answer this one because i see something super funny inside... making ikishoten into ogi, yes they can do it but we can already do it ourself, with macro.
merging shoha and shoha 2, they are two different skill with different purpose... like seinen and guren... one is for mono target and one for area dps... merging them have no point and action bloat don't happend because when i'm doing aoe dps i don't use mono target skill and end have something like 7 skill used... wow super bloated... same when i do mono target dps i don't used this action.
where the fact that midare getting a auto critical make the buff of critical less interesting? from memory the critical buff is a 15 second duration. the whole midare/ogi will be around 8.4 second... leaving us with 6.6 second of buff that can be used on everything else like seinen, shinten or our normal combo. yes samurai will be less dependant of this buff mostly because even with this buff the number of time where i land non critical of this 4 skill is more often than anything and i say this with dnc and drg buff... chance is chance...
since it's our hard hitter skill when it happend i feel like craps and feel like i did loose a massive windows of dps. and i'm sure other sam know what i means. do we will be less affected by the critical buff of the drg and sch... yes. do it's nullify them? hell no... i still taking it for seinen and other skill in this windows of damage!

i will repeat it as often as needed, the loose of kaiten is more like dealing with the less usefull of the button we have in terms of tool... it don't means the buff of potency is weak far from it... but at choose between skill to remove kaiten is by far the best of all since what it do can be done by increasing the potency of midare and ogi to the same level than when we was using it.
people are overeacting saying it's the cornerstone of our jobs when it's not... if the potency increase is the same as if we use kaiten... honestly it's a good change... because it was a in terms of tool a redundant action. worst it's a ogc skill meaning our cycle will not even change... we will have more shinten to add to the cycle... adding more activity to our toolkit instead to reduce it!

ps: i'm against oversimplification of a jobs, we are at the point where if you reach this level you need to know what you do and a bit of skill is welcome... some jobs change did make me hate jobs like what they have done with the dark knight that i found bland because too simple.
but i'm against too redundant action that create artificial gameplay and artificial feeling that we are doing something amazing... when is not the case!

I'd happily trade balance for more interesting job designs. The changes ever since ShB are just sad at this point. Like Eye of the Dragon and Earthly Star are just pathetic at this point. :(

I agree. Stop the oversimplification.

I've played this game a long time now and have not been happy with the job changes in many instances. I am old, like pensioner old, and had to switch to controller last year because I can't work the mouse for long periods any more. I don't do savage and I accept it's out of my reach, I certainly don't want anything made easier so I can play it.

I clear all normal content. I run the occasional extreme with my FC. I play several jobs at a mediocre level. I liked the old HW DRK when it actually needed some effort. I played SMN for years before it was EW cool and hated the changes to pets when we lost our tank for soloing. I agreed with the old fixes to BRD, so it could be mobile, that made sense, even though I don't main one. I like the L90 additions to the PLD rotation, but still remember how different it was in 2.0, back when it felt more like a holy warrior.

AST was complex. People wanted only one card to come out all the time, was that a reason to destroy the individual card system that you worked so hard to teach us in the job quests back in HW? People who want 'easy' always have other job options. That's why we have so many jobs, I thought. So some of them could be easy, some average and some difficult. They're all heading towards easy and I don't like it.

SAM does not need an easier rotation. A good rotation rewards players willing to make an effort and gives them a level of satisfaction when they achieve it. Take that away and you lose those players. I don't play SAM, but I'll stand up for SAM players who don't want it changed.

I have no idea what has happened to the design team here. I can only assume corporate greed has reared its ugly head and once again SE are going for the easy cash until it breaks the game as they have done with others in the past.

I hope I am wrong.

They have a great team but are maybe too comfortable, not challenging themselves or being allowed to. Over time the edge of the blade becomes dull.
The game now has too many good assets to waste on this boring direction. It needs a renewal to maintain subscribers into the end of the next decade. Transplant these lovely enemies, glams, music, etc into an overhauled engine with fewer limitations.

Job design is actually pretty good to be honest compared to other games. At least aesthetically the jobs are unique. Their performance is hard to manage because on the one hand people hate homogenous design, on the other hand all these people with parsers complain that they aren't identical in potential. Now there's also too many jobs for them to receive much individual attention and love. At some point maybe you have to stop adding jobs and start focusing more on expressing their individual strengths and utility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

At some point maybe you have to stop adding jobs and start focusing more on expressing their individual strengths and utility.

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Absolutely !

I get wiped in normal dungeons sometimes but then again I'm still a sprout so who cares amirite?