6.1 job adjustments as announced

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

Guys going zip zap bippity bop too much fun what do? Scholar is letting people walk slightly faster out of mechanics this too good, nerf to 10 seconds.

*Astro deletes entire healer check with Macrocosmose* Mmm. Balanced, as all things should be.

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To be frank, I think if what they’re trying to do is nerfing SCH, halving the mitigation portion of expedient should be the way to go… but… :lol:

Meaningless LL for healers as expected, disappointingly so.

the sprint is very strong
but so is Macrocosmos

Astro can get away with murder but SCH cant watch a copyrighted video on youtube without a fine

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Originally Posted by Duskane

the sprint is very strong
but so is Macrocosmos

Astro can get away with murder but SCH cant watch a copyrighted video on youtube without a fine

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Mmmmhmmm and mmmhmmm to person above you! :D What happened to "We like to bring other jobs up not nerf jobs." Guess that does not apply when you appear to have grudge against entire role.

AST can get with murder because of what they did to and still are doing to AST. Let's remember that they destroyed their time mage aspect, assimilated all the cards, all while having the roughest MP management up until 5.4 in ShB. Not to mention the disaster of was it's release and the 5.0 AST with a horrible 3min Divination CD and Sleeve forcing you to draw every card and playing them individually. And even now, AST is still a mess because they keep changing the cards and the system that it just doesn't feel like AST anymore. Macrocosmos might be broken but wanting to nerf AST is the wrong idea.

Bring every job up. Not down. The way they destoryed AST and SCH in ShB to match WHM. Let's please remember that the devs willing made SCH even clunkier with a ghosting fairy and a kit that lacked meaningful weave windows but has a ton of oGCDs to use.

They took AST's OG card effects away and made them "heal" less than WHM. The PFs deadass locked out AST and then SCH when they decided to fix AST's glaring issues.

Why can't they ever bring WHM up to speed? It'll never be OP with its current design, so why not let it be able to synergy with other healers and actual have skill to use? I said this before in ShB's but everyone who keeps saying WHM just "needs" some QoL changes and like the "turn off brain aspect" will be the reason why no healer will ever be unique or fun. Because to SE, it has to be on the same level as WHM which is rock bottom.

Why the devs keep obsessing with the "entry" level healer is beyond me. Conjurer is the beginner healer. WHM is endgame, if you don't know how to play it then clearly you don't know how to play video games in general since WHM from start to finish is mind-numbingly easy.

That being said, keep pushing for WHM rework and buffs. But do not ask for healer nerfs. Bringing down other jobs only creates drama and fan wars.

Some WHM purists can literally sit there and go on for days about how AST and SCH are broken and need to be brought down. I'm sick of the wars, we even have a whole new healer to even out competition but I guess that's not enough.

I’m utterly sick of these lower mana costs. If they can’t be bothered to have mana as a mechanic just delete it rather than have the facade of obstacle, more so as GCD are taking over healing.

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

AST can get with murder because of what they did to and still are doing to AST. Let's remember that they destroyed their time mage aspect, assimilated all the cards, all while having the roughest MP management up until 5.4 in ShB. Not to mention the disaster of was it's release and the 5.0 AST with a horrible 3min Divination CD and Sleeve forcing you to draw every card and playing them individually. And even now, AST is still a mess because they keep changing the cards and the system that it just doesn't feel like AST anymore. Macrocosmos might be broken but wanting to nerf AST is the wrong idea.

Bring every job up. Not down. The way they destoryed AST and SCH in ShB to match WHM. Let's please remember that the devs willing made SCH even clunkier with a ghosting fairy and a kit that lacked meaningful weave windows but has a ton of oGCDs to use.

They took AST's OG card effects away and made them "heal" less than WHM. The PFs deadass locked out AST and then SCH when they decided to fix AST's glaring issues.

Why can't they ever bring WHM up to speed? It'll never be OP with its current design, so why not let it be able to synergy with other healers and actual have skill to use? I said this before in ShB's but everyone who keeps saying WHM just "needs" some QoL changes and like the "turn off brain aspect" will be the reason why no healer will ever be unique or fun. Because to SE, it has to be on the same level as WHM which is rock bottom.

Why the devs keep obsessing with the "entry" level healer is beyond me. Conjurer is the beginner healer. WHM is endgame, if you don't know how to play it then clearly you don't know how to play video games in general since WHM from start to finish is mind-numbingly easy.

That being said, keep pushing for WHM rework and buffs. But do not ask for healer nerfs. Bringing down other jobs only creates drama and fan wars.

Some WHM purists can literally sit there and go on for days about how AST and SCH are broken and need to be brought down. I'm sick of the wars, we even have a whole new healer to even out competition but I guess that's not enough.

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Asking for nerfs is fine. Even a good thing in the case of healers. Just make it clear that the reason is because the tool is too powerful/efficient in some manner that adding an appropriate counterweight on another healer will only make things worse overall. Macrocosmos and Panhaima absolutely qualify here. You can make a case for Earthly Star, Essential Dignity, and Pneuma individually too, though I don’t think that holds under appropriate scrutiny. Lilybell would qualify as well if WHM wasn’t playing catch-up in so many other aspects. Sage and Scholar’s overall shared baseline in Aetherflow/Addersgall actions does qualify, but you can justify bringing AST/WHM up to that standard purely from a QoL perspective.

Srsly????? Expedient nerfed down to 10 sec????????????????);7:7:6:?kr//7:kr
I loopve to use it whenever i can jeezus…..


SCHOLAR has been «same» ever since ARR.
And expedient made a huge deal for me:(
Even losing 10 sec on sprint wont cut it:( just re-imagined raids situation how BORING it will be.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

Instead they took away a key part of kenki management and got rid of one of the cooler feelings of the class: powering up your big moves..

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But when you're "powering up" every Sen move you do? do they really feeled powered up.. they just end up feeling normal. and thats no fun.

Combat stopped being "fun" a long time ago. it's just the same arbitary rotation over and over and over again.. fight a boss today heres the rotation you use..
fight a boss next week. exact same rotation.. fight a boss next month exact same rotation.. fight a boss next year exact same rotation...

not fun just mundanely repetitive. thats why terms like muscle memory get used a lot because it essentially becomes a chore over fun. doing the same rotation over and over and over regardless of which boss you fight..

Everything that added even a hint of depth got canned years ago, emnity management, tp/mp management, crowd contol, even buffs are all basically increase damage by x or reduce by y... From another thread but i think it relates

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Have you ever stopped to think why there is such an emphasis on damage? Maybe it’s because every other interesting aspect of combat has been steadily removed.

Debuffs? Well, you have DoTs (those that are left, anyways), but you certainly aren’t utilizing any other sort of crowd control like Slows or Stuns to affect the boss. The only CC that gets used now is the occasional Interrupt. We’re maybe lucky to see it once in a raid tier. And you don’t get cleansable debuffs that affect the party very often either—the last one I can even think of is Throttle from TEA. Before that? The Doom in Exdeath normal mode (it doesn’t make an appearance in Savage).

What about enmity? Well, tanks look menacingly at a boss now and gain aggro. There’s no more enmity management on behalf of the DPS or healers to go alongside tank stance dancing.

Damage to tanks? Tanks started stance dancing for damage, yes—but there was also very little to gain by being in tank stance when incoming damage to them could be mitigated by their cooldowns or by their party members. The decrease in damage from old tank stance’s defensive gain was not nearly as valuable as the damage they gained by being in their DPS stance.

Mitigation? Everyone and their mother has AOE mitigation to protect the party, so any mitigative skills that healers have (Temperance, Collective Unconscious, Neutral Sect, Sacred Soil, Fey Illumination, Kerachole, Holos), become even less frequently used since tanks all have an AOE mitigation, physical ranged all have one, Addle and Feint work on both physical and magical raidwides now with varying mitigation percentages, and RDM got Magic Barrier in EW. Everyone has mitigation for days, and it becomes an issue where 1. The raidwides do significantly less damage, which requires less healing; and 2. The mitigative tools healers have in their kits lose importance and use.

Resource management? With the exception of WHM, all healers are MP positive. So they don’t really need to focus on mana conservation.

And finally: healing? Healers can heal current Savage with just oGCDs and not much else because outgoing damage is so infrequent and nonthreatening. So what do we focus on instead? Damage. The only attempts the devs seem to make at forcing GCD healing are heal-to-full mechanics, which aren’t that interesting and end up being more of a waste than anything else. They give us plenty of shiny toys, but all are oGCD and they lessen the need to GCD heal. It’s also quite annoying that our toolkits are bloated with healing tools, but they are not necessary to put to use in most content. I can think of a few tight healer checks, but they are very few and far between. And a lot of them become less threatening the moment people start getting better gear and outgearing them.

This game has become damage-centric, and you cannot pin the blame entirely on the community. Not when the developers remove the other aspects of combat, and lessen the amount of healing needed despite healer mains asking for there to be higher healing requirements. The community is adapting to what the game is becoming: more “accessible”. A lot of these more nuanced things have been removed for accessibility reasons—and while I don’t believe accessibility is inherently bad by itself, I do believe it becomes a problem when job engagement is traded for it.

As it stands, I’m only engaged on a healer when everything is going to shite. But even then, I have so many tools at my disposal, going into damage control is fairly easy. When things are smooth? Well, I’m pressing my single-target nuke until my thumb falls off.

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If it wasnt for the fact the devs deliberately broke the macro system you could essentially just macro your entire rotation. thats how stale and static they really are. with everything thats been scrapped there are no decisions its just the same rotation over and over

combat is really not that much fun. which links to a fairly common view that it's people friends / connections that make the game fun not the game it self.

I sincerely hope that the MP adjustments to WHM include more than just Regen. Yoshida’s HUD during the PLL showed only Regen as having any sort of reduced MP compared to what it is now. The Cure III range increase is meaningless if it’s still 1500 MP and causes the WHM to go OOM from using it. But LOL at the other three healers getting mana adjustments as well when they’re pretty comfy as is. Especially AST.

Asylum and Soil size increase is nice, but why not just make both the size of the Earthly Galaxy at this point.

Also, didn’t they say something about adjusting the level at which certain abilities were learned? Could we please have Rapture be learned pre-60 instead of having to wait until level 70-freaking-6???

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Originally Posted by Rika007

The Lilly Bell change is the only thing that actually seems truly big. While it's not as cool as WHM being able to self pulse the bell, or individual stacks to each player received, being able to essentially burst the bell for all remaining stacks makes it useable in all situations. Even if we go off the current design of Bell where its leftover stacks are expelled for a 200 potency heal, a basically 50% effective of their original value, giving WHM the ability to choose when to burst that heal is essentially a potential 1000 potency oGCD heal on command, more powerful then a Zoe enhanced Pneuma or Full powered Earthly star. The only potential heal stronger would be of course Macro. But either way a heal that strong on command would mean WHM would now laugh at mechanics like Phoinix overkill.

It doesnt fix the issues with Lily and misery, but it's a start. Asylum range buff is nice too. Outside of that... yeesh.

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Eh, I still think it’s a crappier Earthly Star. The cooldown being 180s really doesn’t do it any favors. Even if it is extremely potent, the amount of healing needed in content is so low I don’t consider this to be a gain, nor does it justify the long cooldown. Especially since Earthly Star can be used twice more before Lilybell is even off cooldown.

The hypothesized heal potency isn’t even that much stronger than a Zoe+Pneuma: the latter is already 900 potency alone. And it can be buffed further with Autophysis to be even stronger while also being on a shorter CD and dealing damage in the process. So Zoe+Pneuma would still be inherently better because it isn’t on a stupid long cooldown for an additional 100p increase.

The thing I've noticed with healer changes is that it's almost always things that are entirely different to what the player base has been asking for. There might be one or two exceptions, but generally it's changes that we hadn't guessed and scratch our heads over.

They've said they read feedback. After it's been revealed that they only have casual healers test dungeons, I wonder if they're deliberately going out of their way not to implement changes we ask for. For example, they see us asking for dps buttons, dps neutral lilies, more oGCD heal on WHM, merging MA/crown play and so on and think "right, that's the changes the evil elitist players want, so if we want to improve the class for casual players we'll ignore all that".

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

The thing I've noticed with healer changes is that it's almost always things that are entirely different to what the player base has been asking for. There might be one or two exceptions, but generally it's changes that we hadn't guessed and scratch our heads over.

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Yeah. There's a fair bit of head scratching over on the JP side too.

No one can guess at SE's logic, or if there even is any logic over just throwing darts at a bingo board. Heh.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Asking for nerfs is fine. Even a good thing in the case of healers. Just make it clear that the reason is because the tool is too powerful/efficient in some manner that adding an appropriate counterweight on another healer will only make things worse overall. Macrocosmos and Panhaima absolutely qualify here. You can make a case for Earthly Star, Essential Dignity, and Pneuma individually too, though I don’t think that holds under appropriate scrutiny. Lilybell would qualify as well if WHM wasn’t playing catch-up in so many other aspects. Sage and Scholar’s overall shared baseline in Aetherflow/Addersgall actions does qualify, but you can justify bringing AST/WHM up to that standard purely from a QoL perspective.

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You can make the case about Macrocosmos because it is OP. But Panhaima is 100% not broken. It's only shining feature is that it can soften damage across multiple ongoing damage via Tumults, Akh Morns, etc.. But if the fight doesn't have a multi-hit raidwide then it's weak by default.

I'd even say that SCH/SGE would be the standard if AST wasn't still a healing monster. WHM will never be a "good" teammate because they do nothing for the co-healer. They don't bring healing, damage or utility and that's simply the truth.

In order for WHM to heal without making the co-healer work harder, is use GCD healing which in turn lowers their damage. GCD healing that costs an arm and a leg to cast unless you have lilies. And using lilies is punishing because Misery is a DPS loss, lowering the damage for WHM again.

In an optimized environment, WHM is spamming Glare like everyone else is spamming their filler spell but unlike them, WHM doesn't have the oGCD healing output to match the other three.

And why is it that healers get nerfs? None of the DPS got nerfs yet SCH got punished for being too fast? You can nerf Macrocosmos fine but leave the other healers alone. They should 100% on making WHM better to play with rather than force the ceiling down on the other healers.

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

You can make the case about Macrocosmos because it is OP. But Panhaima is 100% not broken. It's only shining feature is that it can soften damage across multiple ongoing damage via Tumults, Akh Morns, etc.. But if the fight doesn't have a multi-hit raidwide then it's weak by default.

I'd even say that SCH/SGE would be the standard if AST wasn't still a healing monster. WHM will never be a "good" teammate because they do nothing for the co-healer. They don't bring healing, damage or utility and that's simply the truth.

In order for WHM to heal without making the co-healer work harder, is use GCD healing which in turn lowers their damage. GCD healing that costs an arm and a leg to cast unless you have lilies. And using lilies is punishing because Misery is a DPS loss, lowering the damage for WHM again.

In an optimized environment, WHM is spamming Glare like everyone else is spamming their filler spell but unlike them, WHM doesn't have the oGCD healing output to match the other three.

And why is it that healers get nerfs? None of the DPS got nerfs yet SCH got punished for being too fast? You can nerf Macrocosmos fine but leave the other healers alone. They should 100% on making WHM better to play with rather than force the ceiling down on the other healers.

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I do not think Sage needs any nerf beyond Panhaima. I’m fine with every other aspect of their kit, including the fact they have Prognosis over Scholar at the absolute worst, and I don’t think Scholar needs stronger burst healing as it is. I would rather give White Mage Panhaima if it had to exist in any form at all. It wouldn’t correct their imbalance but it would fit the shortcomings of their kit better than Lilybell.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

First Expedient was considered a Meme Ability.

Then players realized it wasn't so bad.

Of course Se has to nerf it then. . . It's a 10% freaking damage reduction. C'mon. . .

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Tbh I usually find it annoying because at least in PF ( yes I know PF ) SCH have a tendency to use it when it's completely unnecessary and it can cause you to overextend and/ or shock you because suddenly you're going max speed even tho you barely have to move at all.
Most of the time they seem to just pop it on cd for any mech that requires some movement.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Tbh I usually find it annoying because at least in PF ( yes I know PF ) SCH have a tendency to use it when it's completely unnecessary and it can cause you to overextend and/ or shock you because suddenly you're going max speed even tho you barely have to move at all.
Most of the time they seem to just pop it on cd for any mech that requires some movement.

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I even find it in coordinated raid setting nothing more then “nice too have”. I never had a fight this raid tier were I was like “wow without expedient sprint I would be toast”. It’s a ability we’re you effectively push your own sprint responsibility on the scholar player . Like for every mechanic were I would need it I had sprint up.