Did TRUST info in Live Letter 68 seal the fate for SQUADRONS?

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

I'm ecstatic for finally being able to avoid being tied down by other people and their bullcrap. I hope roulettes can be done with trust too, but i doubt it, which makes me sad.

Anyway, too bad squadron might not serve a purpose anymore, but it's more than worth the sacrifice.

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That would completely disregard the point of the roulettes. The goal of the roulettes is to fill in groups for people who are attempting to run certain dungeons. It's so when I queue up for Cutter's Cry, I don't need to wait for 3 other people who also want to run Cutter's Cry. I wouldn't count on roulettes being completed with Trusts. It's more likely that they'll add the ability to run trusts with multiple people (i.e. you and your friend with 2 trust members) which would be a good addition.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

When the Trust system updates are completed he plans to retire the Squadron system. Since people have got attached to their squadron members, there may be some form of compensation.


https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tm_name=iossmf

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It really tells about the direction they want the game to go into, when they assume it's more important to live the fantasy of being in dungeons with your MSQ pixel waifu/husbando for 30+ minutes than 15 with an AI team you have any level of customization with.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

When the Trust system updates are completed he plans to retire the Squadron system. Since people have got attached to their squadron members, there may be some form of compensation.


https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tm_name=iossmf

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That is surprising. It seems like normally they just leave those sort of abandoned systems in place and let people do them if they want. I wonder if they're just testing the waters to see the reaction? Or maybe they don't like the idea of people building it up to level 60 and discovering it's a dead end. It does make more sense in the grand scheme of the game to have one consistent system of dungeon assistance NPCs.

I wonder what the stats are on how many people actually engage with their squadrons? I know the people who like them seem to really like them, but I've never really bothered with it myself. I got them up enough to get my GC promotion and that's it.

Squadrons have always felt like a niche system locked behind an absurdly steep grind-there's no way I would ever be willing to sink any time into them or prioritize them instead of Trust updates.

If Squadron members were implemented into a trust system, would it require 12 'playstyles?'

I got that from 3 roles (Tank, Healer, DPS) multiplied by the 4 tactics types (Offensive, Defensive, Balanced, and Independent). They could always ditch the tactics and make them generic as possible.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

When the Trust system updates are completed he plans to retire the Squadron system. Since people have got attached to their squadron members, there may be some form of compensation.

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I read it, and no, the translation feels ambiguous. Some claims Yoshi-P will retire the squadron altogether. Some other claims that he will merge Trust AI and Squadron AI (which is horrible), so that both will have a unified set of better AI. Some other other claims that he will replace the Squadron's leveling aspect with Trust and still keeps Squadron around. In any case, until what he plans come out, there will be no update for Squadron.

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

I read it, and no, the translation feels ambiguous. Some claims Yoshi-P will retire the squadron altogether. Some other claims that he will merge Trust AI and Squadron AI (which is horrible), so that both will have a unified set of better AI. Some other other claims that he will replace the Squadron's leveling aspect with Trust and still keeps Squadron around. In any case, until what he plans come out, there will be no update for Squadron.

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I so hope it's the last option, the first two sound like a nightmare.

Said it before but I believe Squadrons could have good life in new content. Have them relate to actual Grand Company concepts- for example you can run dungeons with them but they're dungeons you cleared out in MSQ. The enemy layout can vary because of this, the purpose for going into them is to unlock resources for your GC. Other things like defending hamlets (hamlet defense system which can be used for other content as well), protecting caravans, establishing trade routes and alliances between your GC and tribes / cities, building up outposts / defending them (can have minor visual impacts to the game). Now you've a warmap and you get to take more logical military activities, please avoid too much of what WoW did in Garrisons though where you just kind of sit at the table to send them out on missions all the time (baby sit the table, I'd rather you get to physically partake or if it's a squadron mission it's like a whole day thing).

In some way making GC a type of very fancy beast tribe content (lots of rewards, lots of diverse quests and growths across a large amount of space). Like when you go into say the mountain with lava you might help build a forge that gives your GC access to enhanced upgrades for your members and new gear and crafting items for you yourself to buy- but also you could 'visit' the newly built outpost in that dungeon and it would have those buildings there. Revisiting might be important as you expand or defend the location, but also might be because if you're there your smiting related jobs have a food buff- and later perhaps an achievement from enhancing that space allows you to build it in your GC room (adding upgrades to the GC space).

Besides more obvious content opportunities of above another way that might make it stand out a little is if you gave it some Shadow of War / Middle Earth nemesis system (for unique boss fights moments that vary themselves), and also maybe Dynasty Warrior like scale.. because it's solo so you could have like 20 monsters at once lol. Attack a stronghold with 40 monsters attacking your team, break into the main area for a boss like experience.

I'd rather have smart trusts than brainless muscle...

I have not read to the end of the thread. But, I thought Yoshi said that if the Scions were somewhere else and couldn't join you story wise you might get random NPC - including Squadron members as part of your trust. I could have misheard, and maybe he just meant like Serpents/Flame/Maelstrom members but I could have sworn he implied Squadron members in some cases.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

I hope they keep squadrons, i want to keep getting those buff items.

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I am definitely with you on that. Especially when you World Travel, those buffs come in handy.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Very disappointing if the Trust remains as slow as before.

Squadrons may have awful AI, but if you take the time to build them they're the fastest 20-60 leveling in the game due to the fact they do reasonable dps and can be equipped with a +60% damage trait on top. Getting full offence 5 Mastery on 4 squadron members took a lot of time and rng but was a worthwhile investment for leveling a lot of alt classes. You could go through dungeons like Aurum Vale or Sohm Ahl in 10-12 minutes with no queues.

"Some form of compensation" is vague and very unlikely to be enough for anyone who fully invested in their squad, either for leveling alt classes or for getting 8 members of their favorite race fully glammed. The fact that Squadron Mastery traits exist meant they intended for us to build and run a lot with them and use them as an alternate leveling path. They can't just add a feature, let players put in all the time and investment, then randomly delete it.

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I agree. One of the main reasons that I like squadrons is they can go through a mob very quickly, they use AOEs. Trusts...it will take me 30-40 mins to go through dungeons. They don't use AOEs.

So, did everyone provide their ideas on whether Squadrons can no longer be Grand Company content because they've become Trust'd?

Personally, squadrons are an item whose time has come and gone. Too wonky to trust them as a Tank. Not actually usable until you hit Second Lieutenant, well past the date for the 2.0 ARR instances. Good for 10 runs through low-level instances in order to get the Physical Education emotes, but after that ...

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

When the Trust system updates are completed he plans to retire the Squadron system. Since people have got attached to their squadron members, there may be some form of compensation.


https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tm_name=iossmf

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There's a correction there were they say "the exact quote is that the squadron system will be "replaced and unified" with trusts"

It doesn't seem they're throwing the concept out entirely. I'm curious what they will do with this. I haven't put nearly the time into my getting that perfect Squadron as others but I do like the group I have put together.

At this point the best thing I can see happening to Squadrons is just being able to use the members as the "generic" Trust NPCs in lower level content that were mentioned in the Live Letter.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

There's a correction there were they say "the exact quote is that the squadron system will be "replaced and unified" with trusts"

It doesn't seem they're throwing the concept out entirely. I'm curious what they will do with this. I haven't put nearly the time into my getting that perfect Squadron as others but I do like the group I have put together.

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Total guess work on my part but sounds like squadron and command missions, along with affinities and related rewards/bonuses, will be removed with some of the current Squadron NPCs being moved to Trust for at least ARR duties, if not also HW and SB. Whether they'd be limited to Scenario mode or we'd be given the option to level them for achievements in Avatar mode is hard to say. If they are available to level in Avatar mode, it probably would be only for level instead of the current mastery ranks.

It will be interesting to see if Squadron manuals are retained as a reward for completing a Trust duty if the squadron missions are being removed, shifted to purchase with GC seals. or removed altogether. Those have been handy for getting access to the grade 3 FC action buffs since most FCs either don't have access to those or are running actions other than what the player needs.

Trusts are crap.

They need to allow us to customize their AI. They have stated that it's an iteration on FF12s Gambit System that you were able to modify. Why can't we modify it here?

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Originally Posted by Nighthawky2010

I agree. One of the main reasons that I like squadrons is they can go through a mob very quickly, they use AOEs. Trusts...it will take me 30-40 mins to go through dungeons. They don't use AOEs.

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Is there any stated reason why they don't do AOES? Literally all they would have to do is make it so they do them consistently and Trusts suddenly aren't as trash anymore.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Is there any stated reason why they don't do AOES? Literally all they would have to do is make it so they do them consistently and Trusts suddenly aren't as trash anymore.

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I think logically it was to prevent them from replacing DF easily, especially because unlike squadrons trusts just automatically become available to you for new content. Though I also believe they were way too strong on it and they could have some sort of progression systems that facilitate not a level gating system but the joyful acceleration that is made available to squadrons when people invested in them. So not saying they don't feel bad combat wise (I love them story wise), just that I imagine it was because unlike squadrons trusts just happen to exist right out of the gate and currently have no means of being better or worse except for their self modulation which... may have been a cool idea at the time but honestly I wish they removed the self modulation. Makes me not want to play well because I know if I do worse they'll do better, unlike squadrons which if I train them to be so strong that I "can" do worse doesn't mean I will because maybe I want to 'gotta go fast' with my team.

No, not my bikini femroe squadron!


You'll never take them alive! NEVER!

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I think logically it was to prevent them from replacing DF easily, especially because unlike squadrons trusts just automatically become available to you for new content. Though I also believe they were way too strong on it and they could have some sort of progression systems that facilitate neither a level gating system but also the joyful acceleration that is made available to squadrons when people invested in them. So not saying they don't feel bad combat wise (I love them story wise), just that I imagine it was because unlike squadrons trusts just happen to exist right out of the gate and currently have no means of being better or worse except for their self modulation which... may have been a cool idea at the time but honestly I wish they removed the self modulation. Makes me not want to play well because I know if I do worse they'll do better, unlike squadrons which if I train them to be so strong that I "can" do worse doesn't mean I will because maybe I want to 'gotta go fast' with my team.

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They could still be less efficient than real players who know what they're doing without being atrocious like they are though.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

They could still be less efficient than real players who know what they're doing without being atrocious like they are though.

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Agreed, wasn't saying it couldn't be better just why I thought it was how it was.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

There's a correction there were they say "the exact quote is that the squadron system will be "replaced and unified" with trusts"

It doesn't seem they're throwing the concept out entirely. I'm curious what they will do with this. I haven't put nearly the time into my getting that perfect Squadron as others but I do like the group I have put together.

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A translation on discord says squadrons will not be removed and it sounds like they may be updated to work more like trusts.

https://discord.com/channels/1004639...58140982046740

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Originally Posted by MsQi

A translation on discord says squadrons will not be removed and it sounds like they may be updated to work more like trusts.

https://discord.com/channels/1004639...58140982046740

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Fingers crossed it means bringing the best of both worlds together, no longer smart as a pack of dodos.

I wouldn't be totally upset if they did just smooth the systems together, as that was part of a desire I had.. but of course the other part of that desire was to keep the value of investment (which squadrons return strongly, trusts.. not really).

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Originally Posted by MsQi

A translation on discord says squadrons will not be removed and it sounds like they may be updated to work more like trusts.

https://discord.com/channels/1004639...58140982046740

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It's a discord link, we can't really see it unless we're in that server you're linking.

This sounds like bad news tbh, squadrons made to work like trust is the same as removing them and just adding trusts imho.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

It's a discord link, we can't really see it unless we're in that server you're linking.

This sounds like bad news tbh, squadrons made to work like trust is the same as removing them and just adding trusts imho.

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Here's a screen shot.
https://i.imgur.com/JVJOm38.png

Of course, as usual, it's open to interpretation, and we won't know specifically until they say more, but I'm interpreting this as they will remain untouched for now.

Personally I would be fine if they just left them as they are, as long as they didn't remove them. People put a lot of time into them. Though they share the ability to run dungeons like trust, they have a very different reason for existing and a very different lore behind them. But there are many ways they could be improved.

I don’t want to lose the characters that I chose or the ability to glamour them.
I would rather not lose all the work I put into building up their Battle Tactics levels
They should still be able to be sent on Squadron missions.

I wouldn't mind if the AI was updated to the level of trusts, but what Squadrons lack in that area is offset by the fact that you have some control over them and that they become quite durable as you build up their Battle Tactics. The ability to send them in ahead of you would be a nice feature to add to Trusts.

Having them selectable alongside trusts in the trust interface would be cool. Squadrons however can do several dungeons that will not be doable with trusts.

Many people have proposed ways to improve and expand the Squadrons over the years. The expansion could work alongside gaining the Grand Company ranks we don’t have access too. Again, if they don’t want to devote resources to them they should just leave them as they are.

Build up, don’t tear down.

I wouldn't mind if trusts AOEd but with a damage penalty - say 30-40% less damage. Enough to make you second guess pulling wall-to-wall and consider running it in PF instead. In other words, some sort of balance to provide players a good reason to run it in PF for speed and efficiency but not overly painful to have the flexibility to run it in a trust.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I wouldn't mind if trusts AOEd but with a damage penalty - say 30-40% less damage. Enough to make you second guess pulling wall-to-wall and consider running it in PF instead. In other words, some sort of balance to provide players a good reason to run it in PF for speed and efficiency but not overly painful to have the flexibility to run it in a trust.

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Trusts are fine they don't need to compete with DF and shouldn't. They are relaxing and not for people who are in a rush. They are great from learning new roles and a source for leveling xp as well.

I'm personally happy to see them expand their reach a feature on this forum I might add that's been requested often enough.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Here's a screen shot.
https://i.imgur.com/JVJOm38.png

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That's good news. Seems to be wouldn't be fair to those who invested a lot of time in their squadrons to have to give them up. I have friends who have and they weren't particularly happy with the news.

To work like trust?

So a dungeon every 20 to 30 minutes instead of 14 to 20 minutes.

Trust are notoriously slow as they are intended for the player to waste at least x minutes. So that duty finder seems more attractive.

Honestly, I feel like they dropped the ball on that. They could have reworked Squadrons to be used as Duty Support... And there you go, at least - some - kind of updated usability for them.