6.08 buffs, what´s the point?!

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Originally Posted by SJWhat

It may sound selfish to say, but MCH should never be at the back of the pack on the virtue of it being a selfish DPS job. If it does not bring damage then it brings nothing a BRD/DNC does and more. This has more to do with the Range Role being flawed.

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I can't remember because it's been so long. Didn't MCH used to have a TP regen and MP regen spatial AOE on it's auto turrets?

MP and TP regen were a ranged role action that both BRD and MCH had until ShB removed them. MCH brought Vulnerability through it's turret but that was removed as well.

TP honestly really sucked imo, one of my favorite things over MMO's like WoW in FFXIV is that you're always pressing buttons in combat.
With TP you could run out and was basically just left to auto-attack.

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Originally Posted by SJWhat

MP and TP regen were a ranged role action that both BRD and MCH had until ShB removed them. MCH brought Vulnerability though it's turret but that was removed as well.

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RIGHT! That's what it was. Why can't they do something like that with the queen automaton? Or do SOMETHING like the 120 second rotation like bard's songs, but with FREAKING ROBOTS! Each brings something different or a specific robot adds something. Maybe call a certain automaton to extend the timer for Wildfire. Or maybe a automaton that also transfers 5 battery when damaging an enemy. Or a robot that gains the damage effect of Flamethrower or Bio Blaster when used on the automaton. Or MAYBE....finally give me SOUND BLASTER automaton, have it stun enemies like HOLY does.....but with DEEP BASS! Call it the dubstep automaton or something. The potential for MCH is so crazy

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Originally Posted by IchiExorz

I agree with most buffs.
But why the hell does MNK need buffs. It's not a very busy job and is already on top of the dps charts (along with RPR) yet it gets a buff?
MCH buffs seem so small compared to the other jobs while i think MCH is the job that needs it the most.

Also I'm glad with the SMN buffs. I think they need more but will see. The buttons that did get buffed are buttons we press kind of often I guess and maybe Ifrit will finally be in line with the other 2 primals?
I still think SMN needs some big rotation adjustments/additions to make it more FUN to play though.

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They don't balance jobs or make changes to their potencies based on their relative position on FFLogs. FFlogs is completely irrelevant to them--they have better tools and can actually determine contribution with accuracy.

They balance them based on what they feel that job should be doing in content. Monk outdoing Reaper on FFlogs is irrelevant. They believe Monk SHOULD be outdoing Reaper (and it's hard to argue that they shouldn't given Reaper's larger utility).

The takeaway is that Reaper wasn't actually OP--it was performing as intended, but other jobs (including Monk) were not performing as intended, so the other jobs were raised up in hopes of bringing them closer to their intended level. And that's the ONLY reason they need to buff or nerf a job.

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Originally Posted by Gruntler

They don't balance jobs or make changes to their potencies based on their relative position on FFLogs. FFlogs is completely irrelevant to them--they have better tools and can actually determine contribution with accuracy.

They balance them based on what they feel that job should be doing in content. Monk outdoing Reaper on FFlogs is irrelevant. They believe Monk SHOULD be outdoing Reaper (and it's hard to argue that they shouldn't given Reaper's larger utility).

The takeaway is that Reaper wasn't actually OP--it was performing as intended, but other jobs (including Monk) were not performing as intended, so the other jobs were raised up in hopes of bringing them closer to their intended level. And that's the ONLY reason they need to buff or nerf a job.

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You keep thinking that what you presume to be true and all your misconceptions match the reasoning from the devs. You can keep thinking that MNK does more damage because RPR 's utility is larger (but it's delusional to think so, as well as false), but Yoshida stated clearly (but maybe not enough) that they were buffing MNK because it wasn't doing enough damage for how busy it feels.

The comment you replied to directly addresses that.

monk buff is world seven mystery to me but at least melee is now all within 3% range cmiiw, i find it weird that people are okay with the difference inside caster blm is like 650rdps ahead smn and rdm which is like 6-7%? it probably make a difference of 0.1-0.2% of boss hp which is huge...

to those who still think blm is hard to play it's either they never play blm or only play blm... they are just as easy to move around as other jobs atm... infact i find it easier to move than rdm due to how many tools they have to move around...

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Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

Somebody's gotta be at the bottom. Should it be machinist? I don't know, but a job will invariably end up being at the bottom of the pile.

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Someone has to be at the bottom, but it shouldn't be MCH with no defensive or offensive utility at all. lmao.

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Originally Posted by Miminming

monk buff is world seven mystery to me but at least melee is now all within 3% range cmiiw, i find it weird that people are okay with the difference inside caster blm is like 650rdps ahead smn and rdm which is like 6-7%? it probably make a difference of 0.1-0.2% of boss hp which is huge...

to those who still think blm is hard to play it's either they never play blm or only play blm... they are just as easy to move around as other jobs atm... infact i find it easier to move than rdm due to how many tools they have to move around...

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BLM has easily the most skill variance in its damage output, that's just numerical fact. Or is there some other reason you can think of why it's so spread out for a job with basically no RNG?

Logically if you have rDPS utility then personal DPS should be lower. If you have 0 rDPS utility then your personal DPS should be higher. However what is happening is MCH has 0 rDPS utility and does the least damage of the 3 Phys ranged classes meanwhile Bard offers the most rDPS and is also doing the most personal DPS numbers on average.

It would be like putting BLM at the bottom of the casters. When it comes to casters arguably RDM should be at the bottom yet given the rework to Summoner now Summoner is at the bottom and has less utilities then RDM.

Yet BLM is still top.

You have the opposite here where MCH is just underwhelming.

Wildfire is too weak, Flamethrower is dead, AQ is clunky to the point that Rook was a better ability. And often times if you are 10 heat away from a Hypercharge it's better to just use Scattergun instead of a ST skill.

Potency on Flamethrower should have been increased or it should have some synergy with Wildfire so that each damage tick adds 150 potency or something similar.

6 GCDS vs 10 Flamethrower ticks would equal 900 vs 1500.

Wouldn't that be better to make Flamethrower worth using instead of a emote or watch your gun spurt flame between pulls?

Instead it's 5 Heat Blasts and one GCD. And that's once every 2 minutes. Just oof.

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Originally Posted by SJWhat

MP and TP regen were a ranged role action that both BRD and MCH had until ShB removed them. MCH brought Vulnerability through it's turret but that was removed as well.

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This isn't quite right.

Role actions weren't a thing until Stormblood, which at the same time as they launched also removed TP from the game. MP and TP regen before that were linked to the turrets on macinist. The rook turret could regenerate TP for the party, and the bishop turret could do the same for MP, but both would slowly drain MP from the machinist to have active, and the turrets would stop attacking while they were refreshing the party's resources.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

This isn't quite right.

Role actions weren't a thing until Stormblood, which at the same time as they launched also removed TP from the game. MP and TP regen before that were linked to the turrets on macinist. The rook turret could regenerate TP for the party, and the bishop turret could do the same for MP, but both would slowly drain MP from the machinist to have active, and the turrets would stop attacking while they were refreshing the party's resources.

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It was also used when the MCH was using dance emotes. Because why not?

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Samurai and Black Mage were. Both were getting pretty noticeably outclassed by Monk and Reaper. Considering they're both supposed to be the "selfish" job, it never made much sense how much better Reaper was. Of course that doesn't really excuse why Monk got a buff when it's hilariously strong right now. Every other buff was needed, though Machinist definitely got the raw end of the deal.

We're already long passed the point where DPS-checks are getting stomped on. Only P4S has one, and that's only because people haven't all gotten their weapons yet. We're two weeks out from tome weapons too. So even players not clearing P3S will have a massive power swing coming. So making the fights mildly easier won't really have any impact.

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They need something to draw people to play MNK , since they ruined the job, might as well be op dps.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

They need something to draw people to play MNK , since they ruined the job, might as well be op dps.

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Same thing with MCH, all it has right now is aesthetic. I mean it needs something to draw people to the job and it doesnt have anything really. And that hurts to say as a mch main

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Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

Somebody's gotta be at the bottom. Should it be machinist? I don't know, but a job will invariably end up being at the bottom of the pile.

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Things like mobility (including dashes/charges), healer skills and party survivability skills should be taken into account imo.

Arguably the most powerful utility a dps job could have is the ability to raise others. SMN and RDM bring not only a raise, but also party heals and high mobility for themselves. They should be near, if not at the bottom.

Reaper, monk, dancer and bard (did I forget a job here) bring healing utility. The two latter jobs are able to attack from afar so they should probably do lower damage. BLM and MCH on the other hand don't bring healing utility, however MCH still has high mobility and both can fight from far away. BLM is more limited than the other 5 so it should so more dps, with reaper, monk and mch being close behind and DNC and BRD below them.

And lastly NIN, SAM and DRG don't bring healing abilities (afaik), they are melee with positionals and only contribute damage or damage buffs. Their rDPS should be at the top.

Since there aren't many raid bosses that require aoe damage, a job's aoe potential is probably not factored in.

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

They said it previously that busier job (monk) should at least have slightly higher dps than less busier ones.

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MNK isn't busy at all lol.
It honestly feels slow and it is on the average APM side of things.

It's not particularly mechanically difficult either and you spend most of the time not doing much else than 123.