Spoiler, Sploilers, and more Spoilers

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Except past final fantasies have also killed off main characters to move the story forward. Past final fantasies baring a few have at least given proper exposition to lore plot points and try to leave out as few plot holes as possible.

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We already had several main characters die, two of them being scions. What you're doing is comparing other complete FF games with a FF expansion and that's frankly unfair. EW isn't a whole game or a whole story on its own. May as well start comparing the entirety of FFVIII to FFVII Intergrade if you want to continue making unfair comparisons.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

This game had alot of deaths already, you don't need your main cast die in every expansion. I would actually hate it. Would it have impact? Sure, but for the wrong reasons.

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We would end up expecting someone to die which would make any deaths less meaningful because we'd be hanging around just waiting for it to happen and place bets on who's next. The suspense would be gone.

Very few characters of note have actually died during the story and the fact that we had to have flashbacks to characters who died nearly ten years ago should say it all, really.

Perhaps more people should simply admit that they aren't able to handle anything bad actually happening to even minor characters that they like and as such falsely claim that a story would be 'bad' if it actually had some meaningful stakes across the board.

Let's also not forget that the game has an incredibly bloated cast and this is the second expansion in the row where very few new characters emerged to stand in the spotlight and persist. Worse yet, we had the opportunity to have a Raen guy step into a major role and yet he was unceremoniously killed off instead of being allowed to stick around.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Very few characters of note have actually died during the story and the fact that we had to have flashbacks to characters who died nearly ten years ago should say it all, really.

Perhaps more people should simply admit that they aren't able to handle anything bad actually happening to even minor characters that they like and as such falsely claim that a story would be 'bad' if it actually had some meaningful stakes across the board.

Let's also not forget that the game has an incredibly bloated cast and this is the second expansion in the row where very few new characters emerged to stand in the spotlight and persist. Worse yet, we had the opportunity to have a Raen guy step into a major role and yet he was unceremoniously killed off instead of being allowed to stick around.

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They also killed a Garlean general who wasn't allowed to shine. He was just fodder to communicate the despair in Garlemald.
Due to the game being MMO, it's difficult to kill important characters.
They appear in previous quest, we know that they're supposed to be from a past time but it seems SQEX absolutely wants to keep them, even if Estinien is present in DRG quests in old armor.

Also, let's not forget that the Scions are quite powerful, now. Thancred is very unlikely to die, he 1v1 the top 1 pvp player in Norvrandt.
Estinien is, based on MSQ, much more powerful than the WoL.

IMO, it would have made no sense that a Scion would die, it would've been forced in this kind of "humanity versus monsters" situation when we already understand the sense of despair.
"We have no use for this character anymore, die please". Killing for the sake of killing would've made things worse, like a horror movie where the most experienced guy die.

This is honestly pretty standard for a FF story, though to be honest my mind is more drawn to the Fabula Nova Crystalis chapters they tried to do when i think about it.

I will say Labyrinthos was pretty slow, but other than that, they wanted to give us an over the top and bombastic end to the story arc they had cultivated since 2.X, and they did just that

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Originally Posted by Penthea

We already had several main characters die, two of them being scions. What you're doing is comparing other complete FF games with a FF expansion and that's frankly unfair. EW isn't a whole game or a whole story on its own. May as well start comparing the entirety of FFVIII to FFVII Intergrade if you want to continue making unfair comparisons.



We would end up expecting someone to die which would make any deaths less meaningful because we'd be hanging around just waiting for it to happen and place bets on who's next. The suspense would be gone.

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Comparing to other final fantasies is what other people are doing though. Also i’d say an expansion is pretty much the length of a typical game considering the hours. Also i’m simply comparing character deaths how is that unfair. What several main characters have we had die since Stormblood? Please enlighten me. I don’t know how we can expect deaths when people already don’t expect it with the case of yshtola who has “died” every single expansion and had her whole blindness and slowly sapping life energies plot mysteriously removed. It’s detrimental to a story when you need to rely on plot armor and plot holes time and time again to keep characters alive. If you want to talk about suspense being gone or meaningless, that’s basically what this expansion was. An apocalypse that once destroyed a civilization of god-like entities and the entire planet, is solved by the scions who suffer literally no consequences whatsoever, especially considering in some ways this apocalypse was worse with the whole total erase of the soul plot. If a story has no stakes then it’s dull and that’s a problem endwalker and even shb had. These horrific very threatening events that are dulled down because the scions are invincible and can come back from death time and time again through plot armor.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

They also killed a Garlean general who wasn't allowed to shine. He was just fodder to communicate the despair in Garlemald.
Due to the game being MMO, it's difficult to kill important characters.
They appear in previous quest, we know that they're supposed to be from a past time but it seems SQEX absolutely wants to keep them, even if Estinien is present in DRG quests in old armor.

Also, let's not forget that the Scions are quite powerful, now. Thancred is very unlikely to die, he 1v1 the top 1 pvp player in Norvrandt.
Estinien is, based on MSQ, much more powerful than the WoL.

IMO, it would have made no sense that a Scion would die, it would've been forced in this kind of "humanity versus monsters" situation when we already understand the sense of despair.
"We have no use for this character anymore, die please". Killing for the sake of killing would've made things worse, like a horror movie where the most experienced guy die.

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Thats the thing, Yoshi P himself said when he was teasing Endwalker and Shb, characters appearing in past quests wasnt an issue. It supposedly wouldnt prevent them from being killed off. He even said prior to EW "no one is safe" yet nothing ever came from that.I think it wouldve made perfect logical sense for the scions to die. Again,the themes of the game from ARR onwards has always been sacrifice for the greater good. They had a perfect chance in the final zone but instead brought them all back with no reperucussions. Irregardless though see my above statement on why it isnt really all that crazy for the scions to die. The twins arent that strong besides anyways. Alphinaud barely even knows sage.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

Cool, let me help you with that as far as I'm concerned: What I expected was a story that made logical sense. I expected a story that didn't throw a ton of random stuff at the wall in the hopes that it all stuck.

Why build up Zodiark since the beginning of the game's existence only to kill him like he's nothing a couple levels in? Why did none of the scions, nor the Warrior of Light understand that killing Zodiark would be really, terribly, horribly bad? I sure knew that straight away. When you have to deities locked into a tense balance and you straight up murder one of them...gee, who would have thought bad things would happen?

What I wanted was to NOT have a Hitchhiker's ripoff that handwaved a bunch of stuff because suddenly the moon is actually a spaceship piloted by bunny people. What I wanted was to not have people build a mass-effect level spaceship in a universe that doesn't HAVE any technology that looks like that. I wanted the tying up of things in Garlemald to feel longer than 20 minutes since the plot from day one has been about the Garlean empire. What I wanted was to not travel back in time and spend 2-3 levels of xp talking to Emet and company while the ending of the world had literally JUST begun.

This whole expansion jumped the shark for me and I flatly stopped caring about any of it. This expansion took everything that I enjoyed about FFXIV and its storytelling and dumped that off a cliff to tell a rushed story filled with tons of new things we haven't known anything about until it is a convenient plot device.

I went from being so pumped over the previous expansion being hands down the best expansion I've played for any MMO in a very long time to actually wondering how they managed to make a worse expansion than WoW.

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Exactly this.

Maybe I am simple minded. Maybe I have low expectations. Maybe I can appreciate bad media. But I cant help but read this thread and feel like Im on a red letter media forum, with the grossest of nitpicks and whining about this beautiful story. Was it perfect? No. Id say there were a few moments where pacing felt off and I felt the music was reused and not as amazing as previous expansion but my God, Soken worked on this music while in the hospital with cancer, during a pandemic. This isn't Shakespeare or War and Peace. It's a video game, and in my 38 years its the most amazing one ive ever experienced. Some of the complaints I am seeing here are laughable.

Yes, well it cannot be denied that some people go through life accepting whatever is put before them and deem even the slightest bit of criticism, no matter how constructive, to be 'whining' or some horrid, deeply personal slight against them.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yes, well it cannot be denied that some people go through life accepting whatever is put before them and deem even the slightest bit of criticism, no matter how constructive, to be 'whining' or some horrid, deeply personal slight against them.

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You don't know me. I don't accept whatever is put before me at all, which is why I left WoW after playing it the majority of my adult life. I think long time XIV players are just spoiled and anything less than perfection leads to whining.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yes, well it cannot be denied that some people go through life accepting whatever is put before them and deem even the slightest bit of criticism, no matter how constructive, to be 'whining' or some horrid, deeply personal slight against them.

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Then there's the other side. People who do nothing but criticize and pull apart every little thing as if its their sole purpose in life. I have a friend like this and I genuinely have to wonder if they enjoy anything at all. It's downright toxic behavior and its kinda miserable being around people like this.

Idea in meme format

https://i.imgflip.com/17f4p1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

You don't know me. I don't accept whatever is put before me at all, which is why I left WoW after playing it the majority of my adult life. I think long time XIV players are just spoiled and anything less than perfection leads to whining.

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Don’t see how criticism is really whining. People critique so that things can get better. Considering this expansion was delayed for 6-7 months, the fact we got what we got is extremely disappointing. Even if we discard the story, the amount of reused gear is disgusting and the fact they’re even reusing themes for dungeons is even worse. The story is just a bad offender because that’s typically the strong suit of this game, so considering even that was lacking after all this…yikes. Also, they could get another music person instead of just one guy.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

Then there's the other side. People who do nothing but criticize and pull apart every little thing as if its their sole purpose in life. I have a friend like this and I genuinely have to wonder if they enjoy anything at all. It's downright toxic behavior and its kinda miserable being around people like this.

Idea in meme format

https://i.imgflip.com/17f4p1.jpg

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I dont think anyone here is saying people cant enjoy things or the story. People are allowed to feel how they feel so your meme kind of falls flat for me. Maybe take your own advice and allow people to critique things if thats what they enjoy? Instead of trying to shut them up lmao. Since that is indeed what your meme is implying.

I’ve said this before in different threads but, the antagonist of the story is Despair, not Meteion. Meteion exists as a gameplay mechanic. We as players have to have something to stab or shoot at in the final fight because above all, this is a video game, not a novel.

Some of the criticism in this thread I think is warranted and I agree with some of it. Such as the pacing which is something I said was a problem when I first started playing this a week ago. (Everything from 80-85 was a slog and I kept falling asleep during some of the cutscenes.)

However, other criticism leaves me wondering if some people even played the same game as me. I totally get that everyone has their own opinion. What’s great to some may be terrible to others and vice versa. That’s life. But there are moments when I can tell someone just so thoroughly missed the point.

Now, I will say this. As a writer I usually don’t like to introduce new characters so late in the story and then reveal they were responsible for everything bad that’s happened over the entire saga, even if it’s a video game and we have to have someone to fight. I think making the final boss in the story should be a character that’s already been established. By the time I got to the moon I was thinking Hydaelyn was the main bad guy and that was going to be the big reveal. All the signs were there. Such as Krile hearing “the sound” before Hydaelyn took her over. And the loporitts or however you spell it, seemingly scheming behind your back. That’s probably something I would have done. Use an existing thread to tie everything together.

That’s why Shadowbringers worked so well. Exarch was revealed to be G’raha Tia. Emet-Selch was the main villain and was someone who has been referenced since ARR, just as Solus and not as an Ascian. So there was nothing too far out of left field and it worked.

I will also say it may have been more impactful if the Final Days were caused by humankind’s despair and not necessarily the despair in the universe. Make it more personal. If you played through the DRK job quests, specifically the part where you confront yourself, that’s where I’m going with this. But on a global scale.

Still though, the idea that the universe is a cold lifeless place full of sorrow and despair resonated with me. It reminded me of the Dark Forest Theory. And it worked for me. As well as the relationship between Hermes and Meteion. It’s not for everyone, but It all worked for me, even if I would have done some things differently.

To me EW felt like a very Final Fantasy experience.


Sudden and unexpected TRUE big bad? Check.
Spaceship? Check.
Feels and power of love? Check.
Time travel shenanigans? Check.
Kill gods? Check.


Sounds like FF to me.

I am very excited for the future, seeing the rest of the lands and realms on our planet and FINALLY being free from the shackles of 1.0 will be interesting.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

Then there's the other side. People who do nothing but criticize and pull apart every little thing as if its their sole purpose in life. I have a friend like this and I genuinely have to wonder if they enjoy anything at all. It's downright toxic behavior and its kinda miserable being around people like this.

Idea in meme format

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The beauty of a forum, intended and designed to provide a venue for consumers of the product to discuss it, is you can simply ignore such posters if they're causing you "misery" through their "toxic" behaviour of expressing dissatisfaction for what is nothing more than a consumer product at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

You don't know me. I don't accept whatever is put before me at all, which is why I left WoW after playing it the majority of my adult life. I think long time XIV players are just spoiled and anything less than perfection leads to whining.

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But you're very quick to dismiss any conflicting opinions on the story as laughable, without specifying which complaints those might be, although I imagine the one you started out by quoting would be one such complaint, even though I thought it was very reasonably articulated.

I have played a plethora of games, including other MMOs - yes, even the much maligned WoW - and it is not failure to meet "perfection" here which is the issue at all. SHB was not perfect, and neither was HW.

Much as you reached a saturation point with WoW for its storytelling failures, some of us have come to a similar point with this game. That is all there is to it. Inability to comprehend this, feigned or otherwise, matters little to that.

Look, people can like or dislike whatever they want. It just feels like these forums are always filled with such negativity. I understand being upset about the queues or if you didn't like a change to your class. And even though I can not comprehend anything less than adoration for this story, esepcially the last two thirds of it, I accept not everyone likes what I like. But that said, I see almost nothing but universal praise for the story in game. Almost every EW dungeon or trial and zone I entered, was filled with people exclaiming "OMG THIS AWESOME" and "I LOVE THIS ZONE" and "OMG THI IS STORY IS AMAZING".

Then I come to the forums...

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I dont think anyone here is saying people cant enjoy things or the story. People are allowed to feel how they feel so your meme kind of falls flat for me. Maybe take your own advice and allow people to critique things if thats what they enjoy? Instead of trying to shut them up lmao. Since that is indeed what your meme is implying.

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While I'm mostly talking about interpersonal communication between friends you do realize the toxic atmosphere this can create right? If all you do is criticize things others enjoy then there's a good chance those people won't want to be around you.

Do you understand the criticism I'm making here?

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Look, people can like or dislike whatever they want. It just feels like these forums are always filled with such negativity. I understand being upset about the queues or if you didn't like a change to your class. And even though I can not comprehend anything less than adoration for this story, esepcially the last two thirds of it, I accept not everyone likes what I like. But that said, I see almost nothing but universal praise for the story in game. Almost every EW dungeon or trial and zone I entered, was filled with people exclaiming "OMG THIS AWESOME" and "I LOVE THIS ZONE" and "OMG THI IS STORY IS AMAZING".

Then I come to the forums...

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Let's say it is the case - I put that down to nothing more than dealing with a biased sample. 1) If you want to leave critical feedback of the game in the slim hope that it'll reach the devs, the forum is there for that, in contrast to the game where it will, in all probability, never be seen or heard by them. 2) It's reasonable to assume that, on average, people still actively playing the game are likelier to enjoy it, no? Granted, you can argue that the forum is a biased sample too, but I don't think it's an accident that you will encounter more critical feedback on it than you would in-game, simply by virtue of what it is and what it is designed to do.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

All of the final fantasy games have had major plot holes when you look at them close enough. Final Fantasy 4, 6 and 7 for sure did. It's just not the point of playing these games. It's the complete off the wall fantasy. The rule of cool. It's that's not your thing then fine. It's not like this is a mystery.

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That's great and all - and we know This FF is a love letter to past ones. But those games were also old, so lets not hand wave it as an excuse for some of these issues with current writing. I don't think anyone was asking for they hyperbolic "Final Reality" but considering one of the major themes deals with a very heavy REALITY issue. I do feel that they could have tightened up those holes a bit better.

So let's not use past nostalgia as an excuse for people being a little more aware of writing issues in modern times.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Look, people can like or dislike whatever they want. It just feels like these forums are always filled with such negativity. I understand being upset about the queues or if you didn't like a change to your class. And even though I can not comprehend anything less than adoration for this story, esepcially the last two thirds of it, I accept not everyone likes what I like. But that said, I see almost nothing but universal praise for the story in game. Almost every EW dungeon or trial and zone I entered, was filled with people exclaiming "OMG THIS AWESOME" and "I LOVE THIS ZONE" and "OMG THI IS STORY IS AMAZING".

Then I come to the forums...

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The forums suck, like they do with all video games. Social media sucks as well. I don’t white knight this game or any other, but forums have always been a culture of no. I have seen some amazing movies and TV shows, read amazing comics and novels and played some amazing video games. And then would go to a forum or subreddit to eagerly discuss it and discover EVERYONE hated it and is just ripping it apart. Sometimes I’m genuinely confused and think I’m on the wrong subreddit because this can’t possibly be the same movie I just saw.

So I take everything here with an enormous grain of salt. I thoroughly enjoyed Endwalker. It really hit me in a good way. And I can even single out a specific scene that nailed it for me.

Meteion standing in a field of flowers in a dead place surrounded by sorrow hearing Hermes’ voice. “I will gift to you a beautiful flower.” In the context of everything that’s happened, the Final Days that came to the Ancients, that came to various other worlds in the cosmos. All those dead civilizations. The Rejoinings and the pain the Ascians felt, trying to bring back their home. The staggering sense of loss in Ultima Thule, the dragons, the Ea, all awaiting death.

All of that suffering came down to that single moment, when Meteion remembered that beautiful flower.

It’s such a tragic moment. And that’s why I play this game.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

So let's not use past nostalgia as an excuse for people being a little more aware of writing issues in modern times.

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You understand these "writing-issues" are non-issues for other people? Nostalgia or not. If these "issues" are too much for you then I get it. However, part of media criticism is understanding the audience a piece of media is intended for. Final Fantasy isn't book 1 (or season 1 if were a tv show watcher) of Game of Thrones. That's not the kind of story its building here.

I've been posting on these forums for years, personally, and I strongly disagree that they're terrible. At least here people don't receive death threats and if they do, they're dealt with by the moderators - which is more than can be said of the likes of Reddit and Twitter.

I'd be inclined to suggest that the only real issue around these parts stems from the 'super fans' who show up to treat any and every tiny little bit of criticism, no matter how constructive, as some deeply personal affront to their existence.

I'd also note that this is a global game with a global audience. Expecting everybody to package their feedback exactly to lofty, unrealistic expectations is pretty bizarre in my opinion.

My only two issues with the EW MSQ were how Zenos was handled, and the final zone with the very cliché series of companions giving up their lives only to be brought back minutes later. One permanent character sacrifice in a meaningful manner would have been far more impactful and appreciated.

I think sometimes people struggle to see the forest for the trees, or maybe it's more 'that tree over there sucks, so this whole forest sucks!'.

I don't think the story is perfect. I'd have handled a couple scenes a bit differently, tied a couple things together a bit tighter, and it did feel a little heavy handed with its theme at certain points, but overall it was good. I enjoyed it.

Honestly my main criticism would be that it didn't real nail any 'sad' moments for me. There were 'omg' moments, 'wtf' moments, plenty of 'cool' and 'awesome' moments, but not really many 'sad' moments, which is a bit odd in an expansion where 'despair' is meant to be such a recurring thing.

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If it was me in charge I'd have been so tempted to have the Azem spell at the end be a mislead. You can summon them back, but they only last as long as the spell does, their bodies are still gone and their souls are still bound to Ultima Thule.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

You understand these "writing-issues" are non-issues for other people? Nostalgia or not. If these "issues" are too much for you then I get it. However, part of media criticism is understanding the audience a piece of media is intended for. Final Fantasy isn't book 1 (or season 1 if were a tv show watcher) of Game of Thrones. That's not the kind of story its building here.

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It is Book one.

Also what do you mean IT'S not. It very much intended to be Epic because they decided to tie everything together. These expansions prior to Shadowbringers WERE not related till they decided to.

This argument that "you realize there are people who have no problems with the story" is a strawman.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

Cool, let me help you with that as far as I'm concerned: What I expected was a story that made logical sense. I expected a story that didn't throw a ton of random stuff at the wall in the hopes that it all stuck.

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And that's exactly what you got, a story that made logical sense.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I also think it jumped the shark and escalated things to a ridiculous degree. I wasn't pleased when WoW did that and I am certainly not pleased with FFXIV going down the same route.

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I think that is the point that I also disliked (but overall I find it to be good story and a good ending for the story line). I wished it would have stayed more focused on the planet. Them opening up the whole universe is imo too much. Just as I found it strange how our planet was the only one that was still with hope. And then we somehow defeat despair itself. So what now? Will they truly only tell us smaller stories? Will they be happy with years of such stories? Or will we have an expansion where we will fight an even worse enemy...IMO if you have something like the Endsinger keep it for the last expansion.

And I too still dont understand the time travel...I just dont believe that Venat would have gone the exact same path if we had not been in Elpis. They after all only suspected that something was wrong with Hermes because we told them about the Final Days. And yet it has to be that way because we do have the bad future where we died.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

It is Book one.

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This isn't Book One, this is Book 6, which ends the storyline before the sequel book series starts.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

And that's exactly what you got, a story that made logical sense.

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I agree. This story was an exploration of the fermi paradox and great filters. It's kinda terrifying there could be any number of great filters that no civilization will ever survive.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

It is Book one.

Also what do you mean IT'S not. It very much intended to be Epic because they decided to tie everything together. These expansions prior to Shadowbringers WERE not related till they decided to.

This argument that "you realize there are people who have no problems with the story" is a strawman.

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I meant Final Fantasy 14 isn't the same as Game of Thrones book 1 (or season 1 of the tv series). My argument was that these two franchises are targeting different audiences.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

I meant Final Fantasy 14 isn't the same as Game of Thrones book 1 (or season 1 of the tv series). My argument was that these two franchises are targeting different audiences.

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Okay...?

But that's not an excuse. I'm saying the audience has gotten bit more perceptive these days when it comes to storylines, and way past blowing off cartridges. I never once attacked people as "Brainless" or whatever for enjoying the story. I'm one of those people who overall enjoyed it myself. That doesn't mean I have some serious qualms in its presentation. Is it a nice sendoff for the most part since its 1.0 inception? Yes.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to hand wave or make excuses for parts of it. I may engage in debate with others why I disagree with certain parts of their interpretation - but that's the nature of the beast.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

This isn't Book One, this is Book 6, which ends the storyline before the sequel book series starts.

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This really is just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. It can be seen as Book one if you treat each Xpac a Chapter.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

And that's exactly what you got, a story that made logical sense.

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No. It didn't. How does time travel work? Can you change things? Is it fixed? Our travelling there was what allowed Venat to learn about Meteion. Otherwise, everything would have happened but she wouldn't know the cause. So I guess you can change the past, even though, I believe, Elidibus tells you you can't. Then we also have alternative time lines on top of that with G'raha Tia in ShB? We have both. Makes perfect sense. And when you summon the Ancients they are your size, the same as Meteion, even though you are your usual size now. And they keep telling you to take dragon scales to Ultima Thule for whatever reason that never mattered. And everyone dies one by one in trials made just for them and the convenient power of friendship that you just got for that exact purpose resurrects them. Or how everything is solved in a single day, even fixing never before seen galactic spaceships or finding a protection against the tempering, which has been a constant issue. I mean...
That doesn't mean you can't enjoy the story. I enjoyed it, but I expected so much more.
Granted, I was starting to fear after patch 5.4 and the way they solved things and 5.5 when the focus was the tempering yet everyone was fighting lunar primals without the echo and no one seemed to care.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

It is Book one.

Also what do you mean IT'S not. It very much intended to be Epic because they decided to tie everything together. These expansions prior to Shadowbringers WERE not related till they decided to.

This argument that "you realize there are people who have no problems with the story" is a strawman.

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Wait what? Literally everything in this game up to this point has been caused or manipulated by the Ascians in their effort to rejoin the shards. Every. Major. Event.

• The Dragonsong War. Initially caused by the Ishgardians betraying the dragons but manipulated to new heights by the Ascians, specifically Lahabrea.
• Stormblood. Entire story was about liberating Ala Mhigo and Doma from the Garlean Empire, and you have to confront Zenos, the grandson of Emet-Selch, then later get to see Emet for the first time. Several revelations happen post-MSQ leading into Shadowbringers.

Stormblood even included the line of dialogue spoken by that shaman-like character in the Azim Steppe regarding the WoL: "A singular radiance. Shimmering. Like a jewel of the Dusk Mother, blinding in its brilliance. Stars flicker and flock to you. Before such gathered light, even the secrets of the gods may be laid bare. Some are fated to rise in grace and glory. Others to falter and fade, though not from memory. Both will be your strength and salvation come the end. Cherish the stars and the light they bring you in the dark. For you are a traveler, are you not?”

Which sounded cryptic at the time, till in Shadowbringers, Emet-Selch's spirit says this during the fight against Elidibus: "Herein I commit the chronicle of the traveler. Shepherd to the stars in the dark. Though the world be sundered and our souls set adrift, where you walk, my dearest friend, fate shall surely follow. For yours is the Fourteenth seat—the seat of Azem."


I mean at this point it's just clear some of y'all were not paying attention to story beats.

You could say each expansion prior to Shadowbringers weren't connected in that there was a new plot in each one. Okay, sure. But the story has been the same since ARR. It's always been about stopping Calamities. The only thing that changed was how the Ascians were trying to go about triggering them.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I think that is the point that I also disliked (but overall I find it to be good story and a good ending for the story line). I wished it would have stayed more focused on the planet. Them opening up the whole universe is imo too much. Just as I found it strange how our planet was the only one that was still with hope. And then we somehow defeat despair itself. So what now? Will they truly only tell us smaller stories? Will they be happy with years of such stories? Or will we have an expansion where we will fight an even worse enemy...IMO if you have something like the Endsinger keep it for the last expansion.

And I too still dont understand the time travel...I just dont believe that Venat would have gone the exact same path if we had not been in Elpis. They after all only suspected that something was wrong with Hermes because we told them about the Final Days. And yet it has to be that way because we do have the bad future where we died.

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No she would have followed the same path. We could not change the events cause as far as time was concerned they happened before we ever arrived there. Time travel plays heavily on the fact that you cant predict the future or change the past. But there elements of the past that aid in shaping the future. In Venat case were are a element of her past so she knew we would be going back in time at some point.

Cel1790 gave a good explanation..then me. lol

Lot of ironies in the complains here.

Guys ... do you know what a realistic story is called? It's called history, and if you had studied it, human history is far more stupid than what presented in the game.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Lot of ironies in the complains here.

Guys ... do you know what a realistic story is called? It's called history, and if you had studied it, human history is far more stupid than what presented in the game.

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I think it was Twain that said: The difference between nonfiction and fiction is that fiction must be absolutely believable.

Sometimes I wonder if SE took that as a challenge to make the most off the wall overtop the story.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Ah yes please gatekeep the game from people who are giving criticism. I’m pretty sure that’s reportable btw but irregardless, people are allowed to critique a game and continue playing it if they enjoy other elements.This is honestly just an ignorant way of thinking and a hindrance to the overall theme of the forums.

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I don't see any criticism. Only whining and human stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Wait what? Literally everything in this game up to this point has been caused or manipulated by the Ascians in their effort to rejoin the shards. Every. Major. Event.


I mean at this point it's just clear some of y'all were not paying attention to story beats.

You could say each expansion prior to Shadowbringers weren't connected in that there was a new plot in each one. Okay, sure. But the story has been the same since ARR. It's always been about stopping Calamities. The only thing that changed was how the Ascians were trying to go about triggering them.

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Wait what? where am I arguing against the overall plot? I mean where do you guys come up with this?

You mean this straw that you collected to beat up was you thinking we didn't realize Ascians were in every xpac?

Not that the fact they had to go back and retconned a lot to make it work and left quite a few parts janky?

Oh okay... here lemme get you more straw to beat up then.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Wait what? where am I arguing against the overall plot? I mean where do you guys come up with this?

You mean this straw that you collected to beat up was you thinking we didn't realize Ascians were in every xpac?

Not that the fact they had to go back and retconned a lot to make it work and left quite a few parts janky?

Oh okay... here lemme get you more straw to beat up then.

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No, you said prior to Shadowbringers, expansions weren't connected. I pointed out they were because they all had a common thread behind them. What exactly did they retcon to make it fit? That's an honest question, I really want to know.

Also, there is a difference between plot and story.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

You don't know me. I don't accept whatever is put before me at all, which is why I left WoW after playing it the majority of my adult life. I think long time XIV players are just spoiled and anything less than perfection leads to whining.

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Some of them really don't know what a bad mmo story looks like.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Some of them really don't know what a bad mmo story looks like.

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I'm pretty sure they do, given that comparisons to WoW have actively been made and many of the same storytelling issues are beginning to manifest here as well. If you like the current approach, that's perfectly fine - but others have concerns and they're relaying them. Something that they're free to do so.