PvP Rewards; 6.1 and beyond.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

what leg do you have to stand on even comparing the two?

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The leg where I don't base my self worth on whether or not I hold exclusive ownership of shiny toys in a video game.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

The leg where I don't base my self worth on whether or not I hold exclusive ownership of shiny toys in a video game.

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Then why fight so hard to take what others have and not just be on your merry way then?

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Then why fight so hard to take what others have and not just be on your merry way then?

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lmao "take what others have" my dude, other people getting items doesn't remove them from your inventory. Why are you so fragile?

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

lmao "take what others have" my dude, other people getting items doesn't remove them from your inventory. Why are you so fragile?

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If you cannot fathom what it's like to have that sort of achievement and accomplishment for your efforts that's ok. Though it doesn't mean everybody everywhere is entitled to whatever they want. Not wanting others to be given so freely what you spent many days to months achieving isn't fragility, it's respect for your fellow player and respect for their effort.

From an interview with Yoshi-P:
Q. Are you planning to make a way to get past Feast Reward Mounts?
A. No. I think that mount was the result of efforts to get into the rankings at that time. As a gamer, Yoshida P himself believes that it is important to have such rare items.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Please tell me you don't actually think a weekend of grinding FATES(that you cannot fail at) is equivalent to queueing ranked Feast(that you can fail at) for a month, or two, or three? You don't even have any of the Feast mounts or minions, what leg do you have to stand on even comparing the two?

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How'd you manage to completely miss the point this dude was trying to make? Almost not even worth arguing with you.

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Originally Posted by Fryfor

How'd you manage to completely miss the point this dude was trying to make? Almost not even worth arguing with you.

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I know the point he is trying to make, I'm saying it's not comparable in the slightest. He has his opinion, I have mine.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

If you cannot fathom what it's like to have that sort of achievement and accomplishment for your efforts that's ok. Though it doesn't mean everybody everywhere is entitled to whatever they want. Not wanting others to be given so freely what you spent many days to months achieving isn't fragility, it's respect for your fellow player and respect for their effort.

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If we're going to flash the "respect" argument. I'll turn it around and say, respect the fact no other content in this game has exclusive rewards, let alone timed exclusivity. Therefore, the entire system was biased from the onset and only kept out of sheer desperation because PvP has been on life support.

Under any other circumstances, I'd be fine with letting them stay exclusive even if I dislike the concept as a whole. But when nothing else has such a reward structure, why does PvP get to be special? And this is coming form someone with exclusive content/stuff, both in this game and others. Take the statue emotes people covet so. They could slap them on the Mogstation for whatever amount they fancy and I wouldn't give a hoot. I've had them for years. Same goes for mounts or minions I have. Don't much care if other people get access to them, eventually. Provided they have to put some degree of effort into obtaining them.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

From an interview with Yoshi-P:
Q. Are you planning to make a way to get past Feast Reward Mounts?
A. No. I think that mount was the result of efforts to get into the rankings at that time. As a gamer, Yoshida P himself believes that it is important to have such rare items.

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This was long before the now third full overhaul of PvP and Feast itself being completely abandoned. Not to mention, they've gone back on their word multiple times. The White Raven Earrings became a seasonal reward; the Moogle outfit was a Fanfest exclusive; housing was FC only and wouldn't require a continuous subscription, and so forth.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

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While there is argument to be made about the current state of PVP being on "life support", the exclusive ranked PVP rewards have been there since Season 1 of the Feast. If it was added later to "keep the game mode alive" then maybe it would have more merit, but the soul of a competitive game mode with exclusive rewards worth fighting for has been there since Feast's inception. Don't get me wrong, the reward system as a whole needs a revamp, but even this revamp does not appear to be completely eliminating exclusive rewards for competitive seasons in the new game mode.

For the second point, I'll just copy what I posted earlier:
"Adding a race, or a housing district, or flying, takes nothing away from any player, it just adds some dev cycles. However, adding past rewards that do not precisely match the effort required for said items at their original release can take away the feeling of accomplishment from those who rightfully earned them. When Yoshi-P says he can't add something, it's usually because it will take a lot of time and a lot of work. When he said he wasn't going to re-add past ranked items, it was because he respected what those players had to do then and there to achieve it."

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I
Under any other circumstances, I'd be fine with letting them stay exclusive even if I dislike the concept as a whole. But when nothing else has such a reward structure, why does PvP get to be special? And this is coming form someone with exclusive content/stuff, both in this game and others. Take the statue emotes people covet so. They could slap them on the Mogstation for whatever amount they fancy and I wouldn't give a hoot. I've had them for years. Same goes for mounts or minions I have. Don't much care if other people get access to them, eventually. Provided they have to put some degree of effort into obtaining them.

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You may think this exclusive item is what kept wolves collared in their little den so they don't have their teeth on PvE players, fair enough?
Based on your logic, you do not believed PvP players get to be special every player should have access same items offering the game.
By using your logic, why there is no World PvP and PvP players need to be collared into Frontline mode? (I am against World PvP as PvPer, just fyi)
They deserves to be like every players to access in game activities anywhere.

If you want takes away exclusivity from PvP exclusive items, fine, but it is given and take.
You will need to give PvPers World PvP, fair?

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

But when nothing else has such a reward structure, why does PvP get to be special?.

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To be fair PvP is very unique content compared to everything else. Closest thing to PvP was Ishgard restoration where you competed against other players and that also featured timed rewards that only X amount could obtain. Its clear that PvP was designed for the competitive players and considering WoW was one of the inspirations for XIV the reward system feels similar to it with the seasonal rewards.

The rewards outside the top 100 were very lacking and weren't enough to bring more people into the mode. The fact that you could spend alot of time into a season and walk away with 7/10th's of a weapon glamour is very underwhelming :p

all t100 rewards "earned" by primal players in prior seasons should be stripped and redistributed evenly across all other data centers

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Originally Posted by Ixon

You keep using words like "many, high numbering, outnumbering, etc." in previous posts, but this isn't true at all [...] Perhaps because you are from Primal where it is probably the worst comparably to the rest of the data centers you may be more correct, but choosing to neglect the achievement of everyone else who rightfully made it is unjust. If you want to fight this fight, how about instead of stripping away the accomplishments of those who rightfully achieved their rewards, you make more fervent demands for SE to actually moderate the leaderboards? It's their job to do so, they are not, go after them and leave those who are not at fault be.

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I have hundreds of games into Diamond outside Primal. I cannot speak for anybody other than myself but it was freaking everywhere!
Moderating a very competitive environment takes a lot of expensive time and effort so instead of that route I propose removing the competition for items. It's not removing the tier achievements or item rewards from anybody. We will still have anything earned, so I still strongly believe making these items available to anybody new willing to invest time in PvP will do a lot to improve the game in that area. Titles and other small rewards that take an artist or developer so little time compared to unique items or mounts you will never see me complaining about those things.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

I know there are cheaters and they are even dares to provoke people on discord to duel in Wolf's Den, however, that do not serve as an excuse to take away exclusivity away from exclusive item.
No one is entitled to access to everything inside the game.
There will be always an item player is unable to access to, for example, legacy tatoo.
It is unique and only Character from 1.00 allows to have and it is exclusive item from SE for players to support this game at its toughest time.
Can you claim legacy tatoo should be allow to be access by every players?

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If you knew how many there were I pray your mind may be swayed. Legacy tattoo, and other real money items, are basically an exchange with Square Enix. I think these are great and support the game! The key distinction is that money is being given to Square Enix or an official Square Enix sponsor.
Imagine if today a player could pay a random third party website to teach them how to break the rules to add the legacy tattoo to their account then so many people did so they began to outnumber legitimate players with the legacy tattoo. If that happened there would be a negative association with wearing the tattoo and I theorize many players would complain. Right now wearing exclusive PvP rewards can cast a bad light onto any player, so much so I think it sort of ruins any enjoyment of the exclusivity. PvP in this game would be better if we could just all enjoy this old content plus I don't think it'd make the game worse.

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Originally Posted by brancinaed

If you knew how many there were I pray your mind may be swayed. Legacy tattoo, and other real money items, are basically an exchange with Square Enix. I think these are great and support the game! The key distinction is that money is being given to Square Enix or an official Square Enix sponsor.
Imagine if today a player could pay a random third party website to teach them how to break the rules to add the legacy tattoo to their account then so many people did so they began to outnumber legitimate players with the legacy tattoo. If that happened there would be a negative association with wearing the tattoo and I theorize many players would complain. Right now wearing exclusive PvP rewards can cast a bad light onto any player, so much so I think it sort of ruins any enjoyment of the exclusivity. PvP in this game would be better if we could just all enjoy this old content plus I don't think it'd make the game worse.

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I am sorry, you really lost me here.
Not mentioning your counter example on legacy tattoo
How is wearing exclusive PvP rewards cast a bad light onto any player?

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Originally Posted by brancinaed

I have hundreds of games into Diamond outside Primal. I cannot speak for anybody other than myself but it was freaking everywhere!
Moderating a very competitive environment takes a lot of expensive time and effort so instead of that route I propose removing the competition for items. It's not removing the tier achievements or item rewards from anybody. We will still have anything earned, so I still strongly believe making these items available to anybody new willing to invest time in PvP will do a lot to improve the game in that area. Titles and other small rewards that take an artist or developer so little time compared to unique items or mounts you will never see me complaining about those things.

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While I only play Aether, I cannot speak to the vast quantities of either cheating or wintrading that you are implying. Does it happen? Absolutely. Though I can only think of a sparse handful. Though some data centers have it way worse than others for sure, I do not believe moderating this issue is as hard as you make it out to be. It's so easily noticeable by other players, I doubt it's harder from a GM perspective. If it's too hard for them, they need to improve their reporting mechanism and then actually be held accountable. I have seen forum posts, twitter posts, reddit threads, youtube videos, all about someone actively speed hacking the game(which is supposed to be easily detectable compared to other third party tools) and have absolutely no action taken. In my opinion, instead of cheapening the rewards for those who want to put forth the effort in a competitive game mode, how about SE actually do what they are supposed to do.

I don't think people really understand what happens when they low-ball rewards in PVP. Whenever you make something easy to obtain, you get an influx of players. This is a good thing, however, if it is easy enough you will also get an influx of players who do not care in the slightest. Take right now as a good example. People have MANY jobs to level, and the Frontline roulette gives a large chunk of exp. This has caused it to be popping quite frequently, but has also degraded the quality of matches. The end goal is to do the match, not necessarily win, so most do not put forth even the most miniscule amount of effort needed to even have a decent match. This isn't people that are simply "new", these are those who do not care because there is no reason to. You saw this with Garo, you see it during Moogle tomes. Sure, you get a few more people now and then who discover they enjoy the PVP, but it pales in comparison to the wave of people who afk run into the enemy.

Remember when they dropped the new Frontlines map? Yes queue syncing was an issue for solo queue-ers in the beginning, but at that time you could only get the mount from WINS. Because of this, people actually tried, the majority of matches were decent(not all of course) because most queueing up at that time had the goal of trying to win. Imagine if right now frontlines gave 10mil exp from the roulette only IF you win. Imagine how much more close and exciting those games would be. Mark my words, if they make this new "battle pass" system in a way that you can afk queue into Frontlines for 100 games and get a mount from it, that will be a miserable experience.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

[...]
I don't think people really understand what happens when they low-ball rewards in PVP. Whenever you make something easy to obtain, you get an influx of players. This is a good thing, however, if it is easy enough you will also get an influx of players who do not care in the slightest. Take right now as a good example. People have MANY jobs to level, and the Frontline roulette gives a large chunk of exp. This has caused it to be popping quite frequently, but has also degraded the quality of matches. The end goal is to do the match, not necessarily win, so most do not put forth even the most miniscule amount of effort needed to even have a decent match. This isn't people that are simply "new", these are those who do not care because there is no reason to. You saw this with Garo, you see it during Moogle tomes. Sure, you get a few more people now and then who discover they enjoy the PVP, but it pales in comparison to the wave of people who afk run into the enemy.[...]

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What about ranked game mode? If we're playing ranked, especially at the top of the ladder, we wouldn't be dealing with brand new players at all. I'm more irked with everybody breaking the rules for the items; it ruined the supposed competitiveness of the ranking system, few were playing the game mode for competition or fun anymore. I do not blame Square Enix for this just the actions of individuals. I'm not going to ask for bans here, but I will beg for the game to be better. The PvP game would be dramatically improved if this large lot of items became obtainable PvP rewards.

For normal mode achievements adding all the PvP items to achievements based on "X games played" is a good idea. Truly the most important thing is just for there to be games played. For ranked mode achievements I believe "X wins" is a better idea. I may be wrong, though, because I can see pro and cons in both cases.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

I am sorry, you really lost me here.
Not mentioning your counter example on legacy tattoo
How is wearing exclusive PvP rewards cast a bad light onto any player?

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Because it got to the point where so many players were breaking T.O.S. for exclusive PvP rewards that word got out. Then people who didn't even PvP have heard the word. It sucks for legit players. Even the earliest season items get this negative attribution, though it used to be better, because people just hear the stories and can't know every individual player. Wearing the items that are top rank PVP rewards recently is like introducing yourself "assume I'm a cheater" because it's sadly a safe assumption in recent seasons.

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Originally Posted by brancinaed

What about ranked game mode? If we're playing ranked, especially at the top of the ladder, we wouldn't be dealing with brand new players at all. I'm more irked with everybody breaking the rules for the items; it ruined the supposed competitiveness of the ranking system, few were playing the game mode for competition or fun anymore. I do not blame Square Enix for this just the actions of individuals. I'm not going to ask for bans here, but I will beg for the game to be better. The PvP game would be dramatically improved if this large lot of items became obtainable PvP rewards.

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Ranked players, including the majority of top 100 in most Data centers, want cheaters perma-banned. We want SE to draw the hard line. We have begged them to do so in the past. We deal with cheaters far more than anyone else. We reported them all of the time. While I have certainly not been hard-lined to make rewards exclusive, you posts are actually counter-productive. I'm starting to think they should be exclusive now.

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Originally Posted by brancinaed

For normal mode achievements adding all the PvP items to achievements based on "X games played" is a good idea. Truly the most important thing is just for there to be games played. For ranked mode achievements I believe "X wins" is a better idea. I may be wrong, though, because I can see pro and cons in both cases.

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X games played is the worst metric imaginable. Do you try to clear dungeons and raids or do you simply queue for them, fail, and get a reward?

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Originally Posted by brancinaed

Because it got to the point where so many players were breaking T.O.S. for exclusive PvP rewards that word got out. Then people who didn't even PvP have heard the word. It sucks for legit players. Even the earliest season items get this negative attribution, though it used to be better, because people just hear the stories and can't know every individual player. Wearing the items that are top rank PVP rewards recently is like introducing yourself "assume I'm a cheater" because it's sadly a safe assumption in recent seasons.

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Most people don't even know where the rewards come from. I have to tell them. They certainly never assume I cheated. I get asked often, even in FL matches. Thank God most players have an open mind, when it comes to this.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Most people don't even know where the rewards come from. I have to tell them.

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Same here, i get asked almost daily where my Eaglebeak set is from. Most of the people that played at the time are not playing anymore. At least when it comes to my old datacenter. When i look up their characters, they are still at 70 max, some never started Stormblood. There was a mass exodus of the old guard when the simplification of pvp happened.

As long as Frontline Roulette exists mainly for PvE reasons, nothing will ever improve for anything the Mode. PvP needs to exist for the sake of PvP, and its simply amazing that Squeenix hasnt thought of this. Also, Frontline has way too many People for it to be anything but a Zerg fest.

And while were at it, as current Job design on ALL Jobs stands, even Crystal Conflict wont improve PvP much at all, simply because 7 out of 18 Jobs are unkillable in a 1vs1 scenario, and 5 of the remaining 11 have a big stat advantage over the rest. Unless all of the Jobs get a complete rework from scratch, the new Mode will simply end up like Rival Wings during Moogle Tomestone Event.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

As long as Frontline Roulette exists mainly for PvE reasons, nothing will ever improve for anything the Mode. PvP needs to exist for the sake of PvP, and its simply amazing that Squeenix hasnt thought of this. Also, Frontline has way too many People for it to be anything but a Zerg fest.

And while were at it, as current Job design on ALL Jobs stands, even Crystal Conflict wont improve PvP much at all, simply because 7 out of 18 Jobs are unkillable in a 1vs1 scenario, and 5 of the remaining 11 have a big stat advantage over the rest. Unless all of the Jobs get a complete rework from scratch, the new Mode will simply end up like Rival Wings during Moogle Tomestone Event.

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They have already mentioned in the last Live Letter that with the overall adjustment to the jobs(probably in 6.1), the way they play specifically in Crystal Conflict will be different from FL or RW for the sake of balance.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

They have already mentioned in the last Live Letter that with the overall adjustment to the jobs(probably in 6.1), the way they play specifically in Crystal Conflict will be different from FL or RW for the sake of balance.

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And the word "adjustments" is exactly why i doubt its success so much. I genuinely believe that Squeenix is unable to properly design any PvP Content from the way they have been overall designing Jobs for both PvE and PvP during my entire stay in FFXIV.

Feasters have suffered enough, they pretty much have their own island in the last EW zone. Just let them have their 5 exclusive mounts.

it just seems like you are just trying to cope with the fact that you had never won a reward (from PvP) before.


maybe just try?


there are bad apples in every single game mode...

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Originally Posted by Mayumae

it just seems like you are just trying to cope with the fact that you had never won a reward (from PvP) before.


maybe just try?


there are bad apples in every single game mode...

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Its not a matter of People are bad in FFXIV, infact, PvP barely requires any previous PvP knowledge from other MMOs at all and all Jobs are as simple as they can possibly get. The issues it has, are its design. If you would actually play any PvP Modes more than just once a day for your EXP, you would know what i am talking about.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Its not a matter of People are bad in FFXIV, infact, PvP barely requires any previous PvP knowledge from other MMOs at all and all Jobs are as simple as they can possibly get. The issues it has, are its design. If you would actually play any PvP Modes more than just once a day for your EXP, you would know what i am talking about.

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L + mayu is a t100 feaster btw... + :l + ratio

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Originally Posted by Anhra

And the word "adjustments" is exactly why i doubt its success so much. I genuinely believe that Squeenix is unable to properly design any PvP Content from the way they have been overall designing Jobs for both PvE and PvP during my entire stay in FFXIV.

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As far as job design, all the jobs were fairly balanced last Season of Feast minus a few outliers. Were there jobs that were more "meta" than others? Of course, but almost all jobs were viable in competent hands and only like 2 or 3 could have been considered "throw picks", so I am not super concerned. Stuff might be busted out the gate, but that's also the case in PVE, so it might take a patch or two to even things out. For the game mode, it might be copium, but I have hope. Across the board, most content has generally been an overall improvement over the expansions. Looks at Diadem > Eureka > Bozja as an example. Have they gotten everything right? Not at all, but you can at least identify a progressive design for the most part. They have shown this in the live letter by making the ranked mode "role-less"(as a tank this means more than you can imagine), reworking the reward structure(that we have been asking for forever), and considering we have been playing on the same map for five years, seeing at least three unique maps brought a tear to my eye. This all should have been implemented sooner, but at least it is happening at all.

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Originally Posted by Mayumae

it just seems like you are just trying to cope with the fact that you had never won a reward (from PvP) before.
maybe just try?
there are bad apples in every single game mode...

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OP is triggered by those players bought title from RMT.
Usually these player's performance do not match to their title.
They don't even know the basic.

I'm surprised this is the topic people would rather focus on instead of the fact that absolutely zero moderation is put in by square enix to enforce TOS rules in the pvp scene and they simply let cheaters run rampant in the first place. The magnitude of "wrongdoing" that goes on within the pvp community is peanuts compared to pretty much everything else that goes on within FF14, or even comparatively, with other games that have a heavy emphasis on pvp. you could have everything cleaned up with a team of 3-4 people overseeing what goes on behind the scene and everything would likely be solved. there's not many people that even pvp in the first place, so there's likely also not many cases to be dealt with. instead of focusing on the problems of people exploiting/cheating the system, you rather have square simply hand out all the rewards to people instead? what is the purpose of collecting these trinkets or cosmetics if they become participation rewards in the end for you? are you so void of any self-respect or dignity that you would wish the game to simply hand out rewards for you so that you can't face a little challenge to earn it? how about we simply ask square enix to mail us the rewards next time and implement a auto-battle system where our characters fight for us also? stop being so spoiled.

Man I can't wait for every exclusive feast reward to be inside the brand new battle pass coming in Crystal Conflict

The top 10 feast crown will be available at level 10 in the battle pass.

I think that ALL preivous Top 100 rewards should be added for just particpating in frontlines as its very hard to get top 100 when its full cheaters and wintraders. Sad that SE didn't just give us rewards for just playing feast up to gold as it is very hard to get there by itself. I am sure like more than half of Top 100 on Aether are wintraders as I seen them always play each other in livestreams and bragging about their fake rankings.

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Originally Posted by PaizuriFF

I think that ALL preivous Top 100 rewards should be added for just particpating in frontlines as its very hard to get top 100 when its full cheaters and wintraders. Sad that SE didn't just give us rewards for just playing feast up to gold as it is very hard to get there by itself. I am sure like more than half of Top 100 on Aether are wintraders as I seen them always play each other in livestreams and bragging about their fake rankings.

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It wouldnt suprise me if the whole PvPaissa Discord is full of Wintraders. It is the same mess on Omega DC on every Feast Season, the moment a non-regular of the Top 100 Leaderboard shows up anywhere close to it who isnt part of the Discord, gets quickly filtered away by said regulars (or their Alts) by them either throwing the game, or simply log off the moment you are in their team.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

It wouldnt suprise me if the whole PvPaissa Discord is full of Wintraders. It is the same mess on Omega DC on every Feast Season, the moment a non-regular of the Top 100 Leaderboard shows up anywhere close to it who isnt part of the Discord, gets quickly filtered away by said regulars (or their Alts) by them either throwing the game, or simply log off the moment you are in their team.

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Let me give you an example of how removed from reality this statement is: "It wouldn't surprise me if the whole Balance Discord is full of people who buy all their clears."(This might be true idk) I would really like to hear any sort of actual evidence you have on any of the stuff you spewed out. I assume either yourself or someone you know got told once how they could play better in PVP, got mad, left all discords, never improved, didn't make top100, and got madge.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Let me give you an example of how removed from reality this statement is: "It wouldn't surprise me if the whole Balance Discord is full of people who buy all their clears."(This might be true idk)

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Even if it was, it wouldn't matter because PVE players buying clears doesn't impact other people in any way. Thousands of people could cheese and cheat their ultimate clears and it wouldn't prevent anyone else from legitimately clearing it because ultimate loot doesn't only get distributed to the top percentage of raiders before fading out of existence forever. It is not a valid comparison, never has been and never will be.

Anyway, it's fun seeing how PVP player defenses of their ~exclusive~ items almost always come down to tearing down other players and leaping straight to personal attacks (half the posts in this thread are people just shitposting things like "you're mad because you're bad" as if that contributes anything). It's pretty fun and highlights exactly why this kind of loot is terrible for a community.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

Even if it was, it wouldn't matter because PVE players buying clears doesn't impact other people in any way. Thousands of people could cheese and cheat their ultimate clears and it wouldn't prevent anyone else from legitimately clearing it because ultimate loot doesn't only get distributed to the top percentage of raiders before fading out of existence forever. It is not a valid comparison, never has been and never will be.

Anyway, it's fun seeing how PVP player defenses of their ~exclusive~ items almost always come down to tearing down other players and leaping straight to personal attacks (half the posts in this thread are people just shitposting things like "you're mad because you're bad" as if that contributes anything). It's pretty fun and highlights exactly why this kind of loot is terrible for a community.

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It's a competitive game mode. Blaming anything other than yourself for not getting what you want in a competitive game mode is ignorance. "Mad cause bad" is just an oversimplification of the truth.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

It's a competitive game mode. Blaming anything other than yourself for not getting what you want in a competitive game mode is ignorance. "Mad cause bad" is just an oversimplification of the truth.

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But it is a complete fabrication of why people don't like that model of loot distribution. Much like the people who waltz in, clearly not having read a single post, ranting about people wanting "participation trophies". Creating a strawman argument to swiftly defeat doesn't actually make your arguments look as strong as you think they do. It makes them look ignorant and insecure. And when so many players rush in to parrot the same points again and again, it just paints feast players in a hilariously negative light.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

But it is a complete fabrication of why people don't like that model of loot distribution. Much like the people who waltz in, clearly not having read a single post, ranting about people wanting "participation trophies". Creating a strawman argument to swiftly defeat doesn't actually make your arguments look as strong as you think they do. It makes them look ignorant and insecure. And when so many players rush in to parrot the same points again and again, it just paints feast players in a hilariously negative light.

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What are you talking about. We WANT a change in the reward structure that IS coming. No one is arguing to keep the current reward structure. You literally are calling yourself out for walking in and not reading what people are saying. Maybe we wouldn't have to act like parrots if the same type of "gimme past rewards please" didn't pop up once a month.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

What are you talking about. We WANT a change in the reward structure that IS coming. No one is arguing to keep the current reward structure. You literally are calling yourself out for walking in and not reading what people are saying. Maybe we wouldn't have to act like parrots if the same type of "gimme past rewards please" didn't pop up once a month.

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It's like you read one word then go off on an unrelated tangent every single post, my man.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

It's like you read one word then go off on an unrelated tangent every single post, my man.

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I regretfully read the whole thing. Twice even, to try and comprehend what you accuse as a strawman argument. People didn't earn the thing, they want the thing, anyone who says it's not right for them to get the thing they didnt earn are either wintraders or bullies.

Why is it such a hard thing to leave the original rewards alone?

There's a new mode, new reward structure, etc. Why bring old stuff into it?

Sure you guys say "there were cheaters", but what about all the people that actually worked hard for the rewards?

If it bothers you that much just pretend those items don't exist in the game. They're so rare you never see them anyway, it shouldn't impact your gameplay at all to not have them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ixon

I regretfully read the whole thing. Twice even, to try and comprehend what you accuse as a strawman argument. People didn't earn the thing, they want the thing, anyone who says it's not right for them to get the thing they didnt earn are either wintraders or bullies.

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That is literally not what was said. It has been explained multiple times in this thread and you stubbornly just repeat yourself every time instead of actually reading what people say every time, inserting your own arguments to swing at instead.