Monk Positionals 6.0

So disappointed.

Job got hit HARD with the idiot stick. Guess all the whiners got their way, job is hollowed out and looks boring AF. No need to move around, no OGCD skills. Monk is now the most braindead job in the game. And willing to bet rather than have these changes draw players to the job, those of us who stuck with it through all the crap are even more likely to just drop it. I get needing to drop them for twin snakes and true strike to make the blitz system work, but can anyone give a legitimate reason dragon kick and bootshine also needed theirs removed too?

Now with Riddle of Earth and True North there's literally no reason to move off the boss's flank and just pop a position ignoring skill every time you need to refresh demolish. Congrats SE, you finally killed monk, as you've seemed to intent to do.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

Would you prefer to stand still? If so Monk was never the job for you.

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No....the new and improved monk job is for me! It's what I have been campaigning for YEARS! While I enjoy the new and improved monk with a WIDE smile on my face with 4 less positionals and a new attack system I may remember the time that I had fun on MNK in 2.0 and 3.0.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Good Riddance to over reliance on positionals. Finally Monk will no longer be a movement mess that it is.

Finally MNK will be SMOOTH to play....FINALLY.

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MNK already was smooth that wasn't a problem minus the burst phase which was clunky but that was a skill speed issue...
The tempo of the movement was part of the fun, if you think it was a mess then that says more about you than it does the Job.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

No....the new and improved monk job is for me! It's what I have been campaigning for YEARS! While I enjoy the new and improved monk with a WIDE smile on my face with 4 less positionals and a new attack system I may remember the time that I had fun on MNK in 2.0 and 3.0.

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Yes you've been the loud lone voice. I've seen you in every monk thread campaigning for the job to be dumbed down and being shot down by every player who's mained the job since 2.0. Congrats you got your way. Enjoy being the only monk in the game.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Now with Riddle of Earth and True North there's literally no reason to move off the boss's flank and just pop a position ignoring skill every time you need to refresh demolish. Congrats SE, you finally killed monk, as you've seemed to intent to do.

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Riddle of Earth no longer removes positional requirements, so it is a 3 charge, 30 second cooldown, 10 second duration 20% damage reduction. Lets be honest, why.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

So disappointed.

Job got hit HARD with the idiot stick. Guess all the whiners got their way, job is hollowed out and looks boring AF. No need to move around, no OGCD skills. Monk is now the most braindead job in the game. And willing to bet rather than have these changes draw players to the job, those of us who stuck with it through all the crap are even more likely to just drop it. I get needing to drop them for twin snakes and true strike to make the blitz system work, but can anyone give a legitimate reason dragon kick and bootshine also needed theirs removed too?

Now with Riddle of Earth and True North there's literally no reason to move off the boss's flank and just pop a position ignoring skill every time you need to refresh demolish. Congrats SE, you finally killed monk, as you've seemed to intent to do.

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1st. Easy...bootshine and dragon kick are no longer the focus of the job...nor is perfect balance 5 charge burst. The focus is Forms, Chakra, Blitz.

2nd. Yet another two example of crutches the job used to "stay complex and rewarding", wouldn't surprise me at all if true north get's deleted.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

No....the new and improved monk job is for me! It's what I have been campaigning for YEARS! While I enjoy the new and improved monk with a WIDE smile on my face with 4 less positionals and a new attack system I may remember the time that I had fun on MNK in 2.0 and 3.0.

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What about 4.0 and 5.0 Monk did you not enjoy compared to 2.0 and 3.0? The only change positional wise is 2/3.0 had Touch of Death every 30 seconds and Fracture in the niche circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Riddle of Earth no longer removes positional requirements, so it is a 3 charge, 30 second cooldown, 10 second duration 20% damage reduction. Lets be honest, why.

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missed that part of the notes, but I stand by my criticism of the rework. And what do you know, they didn't escape the trap of keeping useless skills on monk. Why does the job need 3 charges of a defense increasing skill? We're not a tank, and we're not samurais who collect vuln stacks from standing in mechanics like they're puffy stickers.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

1st. Easy...bootshine and dragon kick are no longer the focus of the job...nor is perfect balance 5 charge burst. The focus is Forms, Chakra, Blitz.

2nd. Yet another two example of crutches the job used to "stay complex and rewarding", wouldn't surprise me at all if true north get's deleted.

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dragon kick and bootshine were the focus of the job for the brief window between the removal of greased lightning and now. Prior to that, they weren't the focus, they were the reward for playing correctly.

and yes, they removed your "crutch" and now the job has no leg to stand on. It has nothing left. Its OGCDs have all been removed, and it's positional attacks are gone too. Monk now is take ninja but remove its trick attack, ninjutsu, and ninki gauge. Sure sounds like fun, eh?

I can't say I'm happy about losing most of our positionals instead of the two that would typically follow up a positional in the same position. However if I'm being honest the main draw of the job was always the fast GCD to me. Plus I'm still a firm proponent of Blitzes so I'm still more positive about these changes overall than I was with the last two expansions.

Stormblood nearly made me unsubscribe, this is just some disappointment alongside something I'm interested in.

Personally im far more concerned about the loss of OGCD's than I am positionals, im hoping that the increase in Chakra generation will offset this to a degree but we will see I feel like they could have just moved elixir field to the blitz and let us keep tornado kick

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

Personally im far more concerned about the loss of OGCD's than I am positionals, im hoping that the increase in Chakra generation will offset this to a degree but we will see I feel like they could have just moved elixir field to the blitz and let us keep tornado kick

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The thing is, there isn't an increase in Chakra generation except during Brotherhood every 120 seconds. This is going to make the 40 seconds between PBs very bare and is a reason why positionals should still be included, to keep the brain engaged.

not sure why everything thinks this new blitz system is so great. you're still hitting perfect balance like before, you're still doing gcd's to get beast chakra which you would already be doing during your regular combo, plus the ogcd at the end comes at the cost of them removing elixir field and tornado kick. they could've just kept those 2 ogcd's and increased the potency since you're actually doing less work now

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

The thing is, there isn't an increase in Chakra generation except during Brotherhood every 120 seconds. This is going to make the 40 seconds between PBs very bare and is a reason why positionals should still be included, to keep the brain engaged.

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The people that pay the bills want a VN and fashion show. The braindead 40 second windows are likely deliberate and viewed as an improvement.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

Personally im far more concerned about the loss of OGCD's than I am positionals, im hoping that the increase in Chakra generation will offset this to a degree but we will see I feel like they could have just moved elixir field to the blitz and let us keep tornado kick

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I can agree here. If we had kept skills to weave between attacks that would have made the blow of removing 67% of our positional requirements sting a bit less. But as for now, monk at level 90 will basically be the same as other jobs at level 30.

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Originally Posted by jerome15

not sure why everything thinks this new blitz system is so great. you're still hitting perfect balance like before, you're still doing gcd's to get beast chakra which you would already be doing during your regular combo, plus the ogcd at the end comes at the cost of them removing elixir field and tornado kick. they could've just kept those 2 ogcd's and increased the potency since you're actually doing less work now

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The blitzes are weapon skills, not oGCDs.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

I can't say I'm happy about losing most of our positionals instead of the two that would typically follow up a positional in the same position. However if I'm being honest the main draw of the job was always the fast GCD to me. Plus I'm still a firm proponent of Blitzes so I'm still more positive about these changes overall than I was with the last two expansions.

Stormblood nearly made me unsubscribe, this is just some disappointment alongside something I'm interested in.

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I am also more positive than negative, but I do think that MNK is going to need to be updated a bit in later patches.
I am just happy to get a rework at all I honestly wasn't expecting it I had lost all hope.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

What about 4.0 and 5.0 Monk did you not enjoy compared to 2.0 and 3.0? The only change positional wise is 2/3.0 had Touch of Death every 30 seconds and Fracture in the niche circumstances.

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2.0 MNK was fine...no issues....it made sense. Positionals and all

3.0 MNK was...ok..chackra was fine...I still enjoyed it. Positionals and all. Still most of what we got or had during this time would be removed. Internal Release RIP, Purification gone when TP got axed, I'm surprised Tornado Kick made it out alive.

4.0 MNK literally hit it's mid-life crisis during this time. It became....a mess....
Riddles
Stances
Chackra
Greased Lightning
Meditation
Forms
Positionals
Tackle Mastery
Tornado Kick being useless until late stormblood
Perfect balance changed 2 times in the same expasion
Riddle of earth being changed 2 times in the same expansion
Tackle mastery changed in the expansion it was released in.
Twin Snakes timer changed

The same thing we have been talking about over....and over...and over....

5.0 was LITEARLLY a repeat of the same terrible design in 4.0....they just doubled down on GL reliance and added NOTHING to the job....
This is when the dam broke....and monk finally got some course correction. 5.0 MNK was a freaking train wreck....it was BARELY enjoyable, I saw that in the Shadowbringers job action trailer....I literally said "THAT'S IT!?". I had NO fun playing MNK until the QoL updates started to roll in, and GL management became that....MANAGEABLE without killing myself to keep my stacks up. Shadowbringers dungeon design didn't help Greased Lightning/Meditation up keep at. I highly doubt a vast MAJORITY of the people that DID enjoy MNK will ever want to go back to 5.0's moment in time.

Call me a casual...call me a braindead moron all you want. All I know is....the job is changing...and I'm going to enjoy it for what it will be on Dec 3rd. Otherwise the only comment I have for all those that would rather I shut up and move on....Well I suppose you can always play the other melee jobs if you don't enjoy mnk.

Have a nice expansion! :D

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

The blitzes are weapon skills, not oGCDs.

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that's even worse, holy crap

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Well I suppose you can always play the other melee jobs if you don't enjoy mnk.

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Nice thing to say to people who lost something they enjoyed.

I guess we could just remove Fell Cleave from the game.
Oh you don't like it?
HoW aBoUt YoU pLaY sOmEtHiNg ElSe?

That argument only really works when it's people who aren't the target demographic coming in and trying to get something changed.
It's like if you have a gacha game that is about waifus and then people start playing it for that, and then you have people who don't like waifus coming in and pestering the devs about it until they remove the waifus and they have the audacity to make that argument.
You don't see the problem with that and how it's very different?

Edit: Either way I think there is going to be a lot of angry voices about this from people who.... Actually played MNK.
And it wouldn't surprise me if SE went back on this.
Blitz isn't enough to make up for the lost ogcd's.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

The people that pay the bills want a VN and fashion show. The braindead 40 second windows are likely deliberate and viewed as an improvement.

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There is a running theme of the pro=positional side name calling and attacking everyone else, maybe grow up Im sorry this hasn't turned out the way you wanted. in truth im a little disappointed myself but there is no need to be attacking people.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

There is a running theme of the pro=positional side name calling and attacking everyone else, maybe grow up Im sorry this hasn't turned out the way you wanted. in truth im a little disappointed myself but there is no need to be attacking people.

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What Daralii said wasn't directed at you, Daralii was calling the Perfect Balance window gameplay braindead.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

2.0 MNK was fine...no issues....it made sense. Positionals and all

3.0 MNK was...ok..chackra was fine...I still enjoyed it. Positionals and all. Still most of what we got or had during this time would be removed. Internal Release RIP, Purification gone when TP got axed, I'm surprised Tornado Kick made it out alive.

4.0 MNK literally hit it's mid-life crisis during this time. It became....a mess....
Riddles
Stances
Chackra
Greased Lightning
Meditation
Forms
Positionals
Tackle Mastery
Tornado Kick being useless until late stormblood
Perfect balance changed 2 times in the same expasion
Riddle of earth being changed 2 times in the same expansion
Tackle mastery changed in the expansion it was released in.
Twin Snakes timer changed

The same thing we have been talking about over....and over...and over....

5.0 was LITEARLLY a repeat of the same terrible design in 4.0....they just doubled down on GL reliance and added NOTHING to the job....
This is when the dam broke....and monk finally got some course correction. 5.0 MNK was a freaking train wreck....it was BARELY enjoyable, I saw that in the Shadowbringers job action trailer....I literally said "THAT'S IT!?". I had NO fun playing MNK until the QoL updates started to roll in, and GL management became that....MANAGEABLE without killing myself to keep my stacks up. Shadowbringers dungeon design didn't help Greased Lightning/Meditation up keep at. I highly doubt a vast MAJORITY of the people that DID enjoy MNK will ever want to go back to 5.0's moment in time.

Call me a casual...call me a braindead moron all you want. All I know is....the job is changing...and I'm going to enjoy it for what it will be on Dec 3rd. Otherwise the only comment I have for all those that would rather I shut up and move on....Well I suppose you can always play the other melee jobs if you don't enjoy mnk.

Have a nice expansion! :D

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You list alot of things, however what was it about 4.0 that made you hate positionals specifically? You never went into that aspect which is what I was, and I am sure others, were hoping for. Yes, Riddles sucked, Tackle Mastery sucked etc. But positionals haven't changed all the much but they suddenly became an issue in SB? Why.

Also, no, you cannot make the claim that we can go somewhere else if we enjoy monk as there is no other job that has Monk's playstyle of many positionals, however, there are many jobs and now even Reaper that do not have many positionals to hit. You have literally taken the one thing away that people enjoyed and said fuck you, play something else, oh wait, there isn't anything with Monk's playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

4.0 MNK literally hit it's mid-life crisis during this time. It became....a mess....
Riddles
Stances
Chackra
Greased Lightning
Meditation
Forms
Positionals
Tackle Mastery
Tornado Kick being useless until late stormblood
Perfect balance changed 2 times in the same expasion
Riddle of earth being changed 2 times in the same expansion
Tackle mastery changed in the expansion it was released in.
Twin Snakes timer changed

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Of this list of things that you didn't like.... very little of them changed the job dramatically from Heavensward. Stances, chakras, greased lightning, forms, positionals, tornado kick being useless... all this was a carry over from Heavesnward and ARR

So the only things you had issue with were either already updated or removed. Riddles, riddle of earth I'll give you was bad. It encouranged monks to stand in avoidable damage in order to extend the greased lighting timer. Riddle of fire, however, was basically a replacement for blood for blood without the damage increase penalty.

Tackle mastery was basically not even a thing. Fire Tackle was just an upgrade to the normal shoulder tackle, and later on Wind Tackle enabled a change to the job not intended by the developers, which is why they removed it.... because they wanted Tornado Kick to be perpetually useless (to address the other part of Tornado Kick being useless until then, it was useless in Heavensward too)

So you complain now that you had fun with monk in 2.0 and 3.0 but now the job is even more dumbed down than it ever was then? You didn't want the job to go back to where it was, you wanted it to be strictly worse. Monk is now a perpetual level 30 job.

With these stupid changes and the horrid changes to BRD I’m literally running out of mains to play.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

With these stupid changes and the horrid changes to BRD I’m literally running out of mains to play.

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I'm going from BRD to MNK, as the latter will let me try melee without button bloat. I only took monk to 35 with solo content, so I don't really know what's missing.

Anything at all to please the DNC mains, make all jobs afk and require nothing from the player

One thing that really stood out to me when I first started Final Fantasy 14 was the positional BONUSES for melee DPS. As a person who played MMORPGs for a while and having came from WoW back in ARR, Monk was so fun with the high positional BONUES giving it an actual skill cap that most other jobs didn't have at the time. For an active player of melee DPS, half the fun to the class was weaving in and out of positionals and what made the endgame fights fun was finding when and where you can min/max your damage without dying (Not trying to sound elitist). Positionals were such a unique concept to DPS classes and I was totally in for it, and having a class built around the mobility and speed to hit those positionals was a game in it's own. I played Monk because it was the class that felt most engaging, and despite using the same 6 skills in the same positions since ARR, I still found it entertaining enough. Yes, I 100% wanted more each expansion and was let down each time, but I still played the class because it's what I enjoyed.

Honestly, with the new blitz system and the fluidness of the combos switching up, I was totally in for Monk. I was torn cutting out Raptor positionals, but I'd still do them for the muscle memory satisfaction and itching that high mobility niche. But for Monk to be cut down to literally be cut from 100% positional bonus to 33%, being put in the lower group of positionals with 2, is nothing short of a tragedy. I guess what was said in a prior forum that removing Raptor positionals was a compromise for the casual players or people who didn't put much effort into learning the class. I guess instead of a compromise , Yoshi-P chose to side with the smooth brains. Why have a class that requires practice when you can have a class that doesn't?

Congratulations to the new breed of Monk players. Potencies are high, skill speed is high, the class has been simplified as per your request. Don't forget to use your True North charges in case landing that one positional every combo is too hard for you.

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Originally Posted by Yokubo

One thing that really stood out to me when I first started Final Fantasy 14 was the positional BONUSES for melee DPS. As a person who played MMORPGs for a while and having came from WoW back in ARR, Monk was so fun with the high positional BONUES giving it an actual skill cap that most other jobs didn't have at the time. For an active player of melee DPS, half the fun to the class was weaving in and out of positionals and what made the endgame fights fun was finding when and where you can min/max your damage without dying (Not trying to sound elitist). Positionals were such a unique concept to DPS classes and I was totally in for it, and having a class built around the mobility and speed to hit those positionals was a game in it's own. I played Monk because it was the class that felt most engaging, and despite using the same 6 skills in the same positions since ARR, I still found it entertaining enough. Yes, I 100% wanted more each expansion and was let down each time, but I still played the class because it's what I enjoyed.

Honestly, with the new blitz system and the fluidness of the combos switching up, I was totally in for Monk. I was torn cutting out Raptor positionals, but I'd still do them for the muscle memory satisfaction and itching that high mobility niche. But for Monk to be cut down to literally be cut from 100% positional bonus to 33%, being put in the lower group of positionals with 2, is nothing short of a tragedy. I guess what was said in a prior forum that removing Raptor positionals was a compromise for the casual players or people who didn't put much effort into learning the class. I guess instead of a compromise , Yoshi-P chose to side with the smooth brains. Why have a class that requires practice when you can have a class that doesn't?

Congratulations to the new breed of Monk players. Potencies are high, skill speed is high, the class has been simplified as per your request. Don't forget to use your True North charges in case landing that one positional every combo is too hard for you.

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Completely agree. Monk's positionals were such a different concept to me after playing other mmo's that I just enjoyed it so much. i started in stormblood with the tk monk and with the speed, complexity, and positionals it became my favorite class from any mmo that i've played. it's so sad to see how far it's fallen since then and i think with these positionals removed i'm just going to main something else and not look back. waited 2 years for them to make the job fun again and after seeing this job gutted again i'm done. there's jobs with basically the same amount of positionals, but more interesting mechanics

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Originally Posted by Yokubo

Congratulations to the new breed of Monk players. Potencies are high, skill speed is high, the class has been simplified as per your request. Don't forget to use your True North charges in case landing that one positional every combo is too hard for you.

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Thank you! It will make learning melee smoother. Pro tip: If you want community support for your vision, try not to lash out in a tantrum.

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

Thank you! It will make learning melee smoother. Pro tip: If you want community support for your vision, try not to lash out in a tantrum.

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Read the thread. Her point already has a lot of support from other monk mains also angry at the dumbing down of the job.

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

Thank you! It will make learning melee smoother. Pro tip: If you want community support for your vision, try not to lash out in a tantrum.

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So because you need to learn how to play the Job because you're still leveling we who have played it since ARR or at least for a long time need to have the job made worse for us at max level?

They also removed an aspect of the job that was part of the learning process ( something that takes like five seconds to figure out, I rly don't understand why it's supposedly so hard for some... ).
By your logic I guess we could remove the Songs for BRD too because it makes '' learning ranged smoother ''?

Honestly this is a huge wake up call, they are destroying these jobs and if they fester they’ll spawn a breed of new players that never knew what it was like. Like what SCH DRK MCH BRD and MNK spout

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Honestly this is a huge wake up call, they are destroying these jobs and if they fester they’ll spawn a breed of new players that never knew what it was like. Like what SCH DRK MCH BRD and MNK spout

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Then these same people will complain about homogenization or complain when the Job they main gets changed in similar ways.

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

Thank you! It will make learning melee smoother. Pro tip: If you want community support for your vision, try not to lash out in a tantrum.

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Glad to hear your transition to melee DPS will go 'smoother'. I just hope you can understand the frustration from people who have played the class for years should have perhaps a bit of weight to it in eyes of the devs in opposition to those who haven't even reached level 50 on the class yet. I can understand that perhaps the casual or less try-hard crowd might be turned off by Monk and the idea of moving literally every skill could be a bit much, but honestly you've read it time and time again, just don't play the class. Asking for the complete mechanic changes of one class so it fits your tastes is a bit unnecessary, and the fact that it actually happened is just absurd to me. Monk needed to change, I agree 100%. But the current result is not the answer, at all.

And sorry if you took my clearly upset remark as a tantrum, but think about it like this, for what other purpose will True North have to Monk? Why try hard when you can try smart.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

So because you need to learn how to play the Job because you're still leveling we who have played it since ARR or at least for a long time need to have the job made worse for us at max level?

They also removed an aspect of the job that was part of the learning process ( something that takes like five seconds to figure out, I rly don't understand why it's supposedly so hard for some... ).
By your logic I guess we could remove the Songs for BRD too because it makes '' learning ranged smoother ''?

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Can I ultra like your comment? haha

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

So because you need to learn how to play the Job because you're still leveling we who have played it since ARR or at least for a long time need to have the job made worse for us at max level?

They also removed an aspect of the job that was part of the learning process ( something that takes like five seconds to figure out, I rly don't understand why it's supposedly so hard for some... ).
By your logic I guess we could remove the Songs for BRD too because it makes '' learning ranged smoother ''?

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I was commenting on the belittling, not the actual changes themselves.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

No....the new and improved monk job is for me! It's what I have been campaigning for YEARS! While I enjoy the new and improved monk with a WIDE smile on my face with 4 less positionals and a new attack system I may remember the time that I had fun on MNK in 2.0 and 3.0.

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I too miss 2.x and 3.x Monk, but this was not a fix let alone resembling 2.x and 3.x Monk in any way lol.

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

I was commenting on the belittling, not the actual changes themselves.

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The whole positionals being removed has been a hot topic for a long time and the vast majority of players who wanted positionals removed are people who do not play the job at all. The vast majority of people who DO play Monk want to keep the positionals. This causes friction between the 2 groups where people who don't actually care for the job want to make it easier just so that they can play it irregardless of what the actual Monk players actually want. As Monk players, we don't go to other jobs and try and make them play like Monk just to please us, so why should non Monk players get to do it to us? This is where the frustration comes from. Players who do not like positionals have 4 other jobs they can pick from, Monks only have Monk and now that is being taken away as well.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

The whole positionals being removed has been a hot topic for a long time and the vast majority of players who wanted positionals removed are people who do not play the job at all. The vast majority of people who DO play Monk want to keep the positionals. This causes friction between the 2 groups where people who don't actually care for the job want to make it easier just so that they can play it irregardless of what the actual Monk players actually want. As Monk players, we don't go to other jobs and try and make them play like Monk just to please us, so why should non Monk players get to do it to us? This is where the frustration comes from. Players who do not like positionals have 4 other jobs they can pick from, Monks only have Monk and now that is being taken away as well.

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With the greatest respect, where is your data, where are you getting this belief that the vast majority of people who want positionals removed don't play the job?

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

With the greatest respect, where is your data, where are you getting this belief that the vast majority of people who want positionals removed don't play the job?

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Just within this threat we've seen people who openly admit they aren't playing the job saying that they've been wanting the positional requirements removed. Though beyond that it's impossible to quantify, and I highly doubt anyone has been making spreadsheets that show if someone mains the job and if they support the removal of the requirements.