The amount peole can earn isnt the proplem,.The proplem is that honestly for most players gil has no worth outside repair, teleporting.
Msq giving gear, tomes for better upgreads and most glamor items are 50-100k with some expections at 500k-1mill.
There isnt enough plots to spend gil on (literally the only real way to burn money is via housing) most ppl will never see or get a plot. Apartments you can hardly put much in, and even those are hard to get now.
Lottory wont fix it either.
Nerfying gil/add lottory isn't going to fix in fact it punishs ppl who are newer because cost of items sold raises and all that.
The only fix is 10x more plots + more things worth spending gil on it.
Removing hq items will make gil even more worthless
-
11-12-2021, 10:16 AMPlushyprincessMusa
-
11-12-2021, 10:20 AMLaylaTsarraInteresting to note that in the Live Letter they specifically mentioned that Ishgard would have 24 wards and 24 subdivisions. I find it telling that they don't appear to be adding additional wards to other areas. After all the talk about new servers I would have thought they would have raised the ward limit to say 30 as a minimum everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa
-
11-12-2021, 11:01 AMFoxyAreku
Submarines and airships are such awful content, not sure why we need something that only FC leaders can partake in.
-
11-12-2021, 12:25 PMKnot_DMy FC leader let me operate the submarines and compensate the gils to upgrade it, probably different to other FC.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyAreku
-
11-12-2021, 05:35 PMSotarisThey also said before the PLL that they trying to procure more servers to increase the housing plots but due to covid they haven't been able to either travel and get new servers. It could still happen down the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra
-
11-12-2021, 10:40 PMLiam_HarperThen why are they nerfing the scraps left over after the result of their problem instead of the source?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuumei
Gil from leves was never a problem in the past. Nor was gil a problem from collectibles but that was nerfed too. Bots however are a rampant issue and will continue wrecking the markets and churning out billions via treasure maps. They can't just keep snatching away the pennies that legitimate players are scraping off the floor because they don't have an answer to bots. -
11-12-2021, 11:34 PMPredatoryCatgirlHow much gil is actually generated from running a map? "Generated" as in created out of thin air? Getting a rare drop to sell on the market board doesn't generate gil. I don't do maps, but the people who I know that do don't ever talk about raw gil, they talk about rare drops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
Botting is a problem, but I don't think its relevant to this. Its a completely separate problem. -
11-12-2021, 11:37 PMYuumeiBecause the number of players across all servers doing this leve turn-in to spam for gil probably outnumbers everything else (in terms of total gil generated)? Without access to the data from the backend ourselves we have to go with what the development team says and they have said it live - the leves are generating too much gil and will cause issues with the economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
Just because they have not announced additional counter-measures against bots doing maps does not mean they are unaware of it - i certainly believe the STF team / GMs are reading our reports and they are not turning a blind eye to the botting.
However - IF you disagree strongly with what Yoshi-P said during the recent Live Letter or how they are handling this issue, i would suggest you reach out to the development team via the feedback channels available to players. -
11-12-2021, 11:43 PMPredatoryCatgirlSomething else to consider is that announcing anti-bot countermeasures makes them ineffective. You don't announce when and where you're about to do a sting operation to stop the flow of heroin into your community.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuumei
-
11-13-2021, 12:15 AMDeceptusI literally saw this for the first time the other day in Lakeland. Group of 8, followed them because they were doing botlike behavior before they mounted up.Quote:
Originally Posted by KageTokage
Killed the mob, instantly vanished at the exact same time. -
11-13-2021, 12:47 AMkekebear
Some People like to cherry pick on a tiny part of the post and try to discredit the entire thing. If you read even just the title you'll see that the problem this thread aims to alleviate - not solve - isn't inflation but housing. You cannot argue that removing this effective gil generating capabilities for housing isn't going to help.
Just to demonstrate how much subs are worth - a fight-club-ready workshop is worth 30-50m, on top of the cost of the plot/house; that's more than a year of coffee biscuits. If people are willing to pay this much for a fight club operation, you want to tell me the perpetual gil it generates is not worth it?
In case you missed this, check out these endorsements by people who are active participants of the scheme: https://imgur.com/a/u213pGX
What's happening now is there is already way less housing available than number of players, and yet some people are gobbling up houses and let it sit, and it would generate significant amount of gil out of thin air. Those landlords then use those gil to buy up more houses in the resale market, generating more gil, driving resale prices way up and the cycle continues. If you're in favor of only letting super gil-rich people get housing, then maybe you're ok with this.
Some multi-owners want to set up venues or even buy up wards and decorate it to be a tourist attraction of some sort; some people might not like it but I personally think that's fine, pretty cool even.
Some other specific people buy houses, left them empty and turn them into a gil printing machine, and directly use those gil to get more housing/gil machines, make worse the housing shortage problem. If Square Enix would remove the gil printing part, the houses would suddendly be worth a lot less to these people. Entering and refreshing the demolition timer of their tens to 100+ of houses would become a chore rather than a gil generating activity. We might see some auto demos, who knows? If you're against this, it just tells me you're one of these people. -
11-13-2021, 01:25 AMPredatoryCatgirl
Even if every single FC was a shell for this scheme, it wouldn't solve it. 96 wards means 5,760 houses. 10K to 15K active players per day. Even assuming everyone who is active logs on every day, you're still looking at doubling to tripling the number for everyone to have a house, even assuming you get rid of ALL FC housing. The solution is instanced housing. What you're proposing is tantamount to trying to fix a broken leg with band-aids.
-
11-13-2021, 01:34 AMPredatoryCatgirlHonestly, this tells me all I need to know about you. "There is no possible reason you could ever think I'm wrong aside from being someone who abuses the system and makes the problem worse."Quote:
Originally Posted by kekebear
How many people actually have multiples? How many houses are owned by people with multiples? How many of these people even give two snots about the gil printers and don't own the houses purely because they have a design itch that The Sims doesn't scratch (which I'm not defending, but it means that your solution won't cause them to give up the houses)? Give me hard numbers. Tell me how much this is going to help. Until then, you're just bitter and angry that someone else has something you don't. -
11-13-2021, 02:13 AMKyu-Momo
Didn't even know about this. Thanks for the head's up.
-
11-13-2021, 02:13 AMkekebearSo you're saying you should keep your gil printers because getting rid of them will not solve the housing shortage? Well I happen to agree (with the second part); it won't solve a supply side problem, and I've already said as much, which you just deliberately ignored trying to make your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl
Since you're either being disingenuous or actually having a hard time understanding the concept, here's a dumbed down version: No gil printers -> less reasons to hoard housing / those that own houses for reasons other than printing gil are not affected / less gil generation -> not a bad thing!
Wild idea I know. -
11-13-2021, 02:24 AMPredatoryCatgirl
Since you're either being disingenuous or actually having a hard time understanding the concept, here's a dumbed down version: Punishing an entire community for a few people abusing a system - > pissed off playerbase.
You are talking about removing something in a way that will harm people's enjoyment of the game because allegedly it is being abused. How bad is the abuse? Give me numbers. Since you're either being disingenuous or actually having a hard time understanding the concept, here's a dumbed down version: Give me a cost-benefit analysis and stop pretending that the cost is zero.
You never answered that question, which you just deliberately ignored trying to make your point.
Wild idea I know. -
11-13-2021, 02:25 AMVahlnirYep. They did that before with the random timer. They are punishing everyone yet again with a lottery while failing to address the core issues with housing. We don't need them to do more things we really don't want them doing. People need to start pushing, and pushing hard, for real change.Quote:
Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl
-
11-13-2021, 02:34 AMPredatoryCatgirlI absolutely agree. There is no full on fix to this beyond more houses, but this gave the everyperson a leg up over the RMT bots, if for no other reason because they outnumber them and because they won't stand there macroing while the bots will. Its making the best of a bad situation, and hopefully we get a supply fix in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Setesh45
-
11-13-2021, 02:38 AMkekebear
I'm confused. On one hand you're saying this "scheme" is not that good, have no effect on the economy, and you can do whole bunch of other easier stuff for gil. On the other you are saying it's so good that removing this would be punishing for the entire playerbase.
So which is it? Is this a good gil printing scheme or not? Kinda have to make up your mind here... -
11-13-2021, 02:40 AMPredatoryCatgirlDifferent people are making different arguments. Stop trying to deliberately misrepresent it as contradictory as if we're all of one mindset.Quote:
Originally Posted by kekebear
-
11-13-2021, 02:48 AMVahlnirJust because it is more fair doesn't mean it's a good system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Setesh45
-
11-13-2021, 02:52 AMkekebearQuote:
Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl
So 173 gil printers per server = entire community? Seems pretty contradictory to meQuote:
Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl
-
11-13-2021, 02:55 AMPredatoryCatgirlAs in 173 FCs doing it, not 173 shell FCs owned by one person. I don't know how many of those FCs are actual FCs and how many are just unused gil printers. Stop quoting me out of context and twisting my words.Quote:
Originally Posted by kekebear
So how many houses is this going to free up, exactly? How much is this going to help? Still waiting on that answer from you. -
11-13-2021, 04:17 AMPredatoryCatgirl
You know what? I actually have the data to extrapolate from, so I'm putting this to bed. All information can be found on https://www.xivhousing.com/ and https://ffxivcensus.com/.
There are 24 wards per zone, 4 zones, and 60 houses per ward. That's 5760 houses per server.
There are an average of 125 solo FCs with houses. I will not be counting 2-3 member FCs because there's zero reason to have a second alt in your gil printer. Now you can't assume that every single solo FC is a gil printer who's only purpose is subs, but for the purpose of this mental exercise, lets go with that assumption.
There is an average of 9404 active players per server based on this data set. Keep in mind, this was information taken before WoW imploded and dropped a ton of its population here, so the number is likely significantly higher, but this is what I have hard data for. That means an average of 3644 active players cannot get a house. This doesn't even include FCs. This assumes that all houses would go to players.
Assuming an absolute worst case scenario of abuse, that every single solo FC is nothing but a soulless gil printer and that getting rid of submarines would mean that they dust and go to another player or FC, you're talking about reducing the problem that we have by 3.43%. Adding a single additional ward to each zone would have a greater impact than this, assuming worst case scenario of abuse.
Also, I don't have time to pull the other numbers right this moment, but the overall population is significantly lower, and number of single person FCs is significantly higher, on JP servers versus NA and EU. That means it would have a much lower impact that even the miniscule number I just reported if we only look at the English population.
Your ill advised "solution" deprives people of a useful function of the game and does very little to help. The only reason anyone would seriously pursue this after reading this data is ego or envy. Please just drop it now. -
11-13-2021, 05:19 AMDenL
The above reads to me like someone desperately want to keep their gil printing submersibles. lol "Plz drop it now"
Eh even if the hoarders still keep their houses and game sub active forever, as long as it deprives them of the means to continually earn gil and acquire more housing, I'm all for it. -
11-13-2021, 07:55 AMKaliesto
I'm kind of indifferent to this really, gil in the grand scheme of things is mostly pointless? Everything you could get you can get easily with enough effort.
The true reward is doing the challenging stuff that doesn't require much gil.
Stockpiling gil is pretty pointless unless someone's FC is trying to take over the entire server to build a empire I guess lol. -
11-13-2021, 08:14 AMVahlnirWe aren't getting what we need either. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Setesh45
-
11-13-2021, 09:28 AMKnot_DYou're also cherry picking the discord comments that only 0.1% of submarines owner do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by kekebear
-
11-13-2021, 09:49 AMKaurhzProbably because it helps to support the argument that having submarines be such a lucrative means of generating Gil without requiring the use of a market only goes to compound the already apparent housing issue. That is not to say that it is the sole contributor of issues, but it's definitely a compounding factor. Case in point some people have already hoarded housing with largely the express luxury of engaging in this income source.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knot_D
They are simply picking out examples that highlight quite a clear issue. - Which to be quite frank if some people are hoarding houses for this endeavour then it is an issue. They aren't exactly going to present examples which are contradictory to the point they're trying to make.
Do I think attacking or generalising an entire discord is right though, nah.