Do people see this game as an MMO?

Feel free to hit me up in-game sometime, OP, if you'd like someone to talk to.

XIV is not as deep as many other mmo; like XI, CoX, or even WoW.

I don't really talk, because A) Ya'll be on some Bull..........lol..... B) There isn't really much to talk about.

Many mmo players fondest memories are probably from games like WoW, EQ, XI, Eve or something.......Personally, I don't have any FXIV memories which stand out. The world is not particularly dangerous; you really have no need for anyone else if you buy lvl boost, and the game-play is pretty repetitive.....lacking depth compared to a XI were the mages would self skill-chain or some crazy $hit.

Because games like XI are deep, there was more opportunities to talk......Mostly to help others who had questions, come up with new builds, try to be that brave melee mage..... or reminiscence when visiting an old areas.

In XIV, there is really no reason to talk...Unless you do extreme $hit or something I guess.....

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

XIV is not as deep as many other mmo; like XI, CoX, or even WoW.

I don't really talk, because A) Ya'll be on some Bull..........lol..... B) There isn't really much to talk about.

Many mmo players fondest memories are probably from games like WoW, EQ, XI, Eve or something.......Personally, I don't have any FXIV memories which stand out. The world is not particularly dangerous; you really have no need for anyone else if you buy lvl boost, and the game-play is pretty repetitive.....lacking depth compared to a XI were the mages would self skill-chain or some crazy $hit.

Because games like XI are deep, there was more opportunities to talk......Mostly to help others who had questions, come up with new builds, try to be that brave melee mage..... or reminiscence when visiting an old areas.

In XIV, there is really no reason to talk...Unless you do extreme $hit or something I guess.....

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I haven't played XI but... Yeah. I mean, even though sometimes games like RO were a pain to grind... the grinding aspect really turned things memorable. Since we were grinding for hours, people started talking, making small commentaries... the fact that a lot of items were complicated to get or that you had builds involved lead to a very deep theory-crafting community, you needed friends to do a lot of things (you could do things solo if you had the gear/money for it though). I still have the music from some maps into my head, or I remember particular mobs because of their difficulty to access, or something like that. I know the exact route to get into some maps, even after years have passed and I was never a hardcore player in RO. I enjoy XIV a lot and understand that it's not trying to be a hard/grindy game, and that this type of game isn't for everyone (particularly I'm a more enjoy the journey than rush to the endgame person, so I don't mind grindy things - I have no rush).

Of course these games have a lot of problems, I don't mean to approach this in a rose-tinted glasses kind-of-way. But yes, although I do have precious friends in FFXIV, a lot of my memories with them aren't because of something the game made. If anything, what was really memorable was trying to glitch the deck on our house in a certain way LOL and it became memorable BECAUSE it was a pain to do.

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

XIV is not as deep as many other mmo; like XI, CoX, or even WoW.

I don't really talk, because A) Ya'll be on some Bull..........lol..... B) There isn't really much to talk about.

Many mmo players fondest memories are probably from games like WoW, EQ, XI, Eve or something.......Personally, I don't have any FXIV memories which stand out. The world is not particularly dangerous; you really have no need for anyone else if you buy lvl boost, and the game-play is pretty repetitive.....lacking depth compared to a XI were the mages would self skill-chain or some crazy $hit.

Because games like XI are deep, there was more opportunities to talk......Mostly to help others who had questions, come up with new builds, try to be that brave melee mage..... or reminiscence when visiting an old areas.

In XIV, there is really no reason to talk...Unless you do extreme $hit or something I guess.....

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I mean, the internet as a whole is also much bigger than it was 20 years ago.

Now there are tons of websites and communities dedicated to those things. Guides are plastered everywhere, and communities are much bigger outside the game than they were back then.


This is just "the old days we're better because games forced us to talk"

I have plenty of good memories in XIV. I reminisce with my friends about them all the time. The group I play with I've known since summer of 2014.

More of an afk simulator, if anything.

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Originally Posted by Velnora

More of an afk simulator, if anything.

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if you think this is an afk simulator, you obviously havent played something like Vindictus.. you actually get rewards from events for simply being logged in... period. you get an event item every 1/2 hour for a max I think of 3 hours. being afk is far more of a thing than it is here. they run these events, almost all the time. oh, they also have a fatigue system, so after doing x number of things you basically have zero to do for xp or rewards, so being afk is what you are left with.

FFxiv has nothing on Vindi.. trust me...

Sounds like you haven't found a good FC/group to play with.

It can be both. It can be a single player RPG with chat features or it can be an immersive worlds where players can build a community and open RP venues where people can RP and hangout.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Sounds like you haven't found a good FC/group to play with.

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Some people are just unlucky like that.

Finding a good group of players requires a lot of luck. You can do everything right and just...not find enough people to run stuff with in a way that works. Which makes sense, since a lot of groups are already 'full' and not really looking for fresh blood. Or they have schedules that just don't align with the player reaching out.

Then, of course, there's going to be people who did find a good group but for whatever reason it fell apart. Sometimes due to drama. Sometimes due to inactivity. Some players have had that happen multiple times and simply don't want to risk going through the exact same song and dance once more.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Some people are just unlucky like that.

Finding a good group of players requires a lot of luck. You can do everything right and just...not find enough people to run stuff with in a way that works. Which makes sense, since a lot of groups are already 'full' and not really looking for fresh blood. Or they have schedules that just don't align with the player reaching out.

Then, of course, there's going to be people who did find a good group but for whatever reason it fell apart. Sometimes due to drama. Sometimes due to inactivity. Some players have had that happen multiple times and simply don't want to risk going through the exact same song and dance once more.

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Yeah, I have had multiple clans/groups that fall apart, due to a variety of reasons. Not to mention, for me, it's exhausting anymore to feel the need to have to interact or do things with a clan/guild. Maybe it's even due to past guilds/clans falling apart; I'd rather not have to deal with it again. It's like I've said before, I've gotten quite flaky in the past few years, and I just don't want to feel obligated to do things with a clan or guild, when I don't want to do them. I'd have to find a really good group of players that feels similarly to me, and I don't really want to put myself out there and find one in the first place. I prefer a more organic approach when it comes to making friends. In this game, I will join a linkshell or something for specific content types (extreme farms, eureka/bozja, etc.), but that's about as far as I go.

Define mmo..

To be it has had no meaning outside a few chats and making friends with a world I could explore on my own or with someone I choose.

Honestly I think to many people including game makers use the tag "mmo" to overally enforce social aspects.
That said will i chat with others and all that sure but I will do so on my own terms.

The thing is some people i may hate so i wont say anything to them. Somedays I may be in a bad mood or w/e else so I avoid chat completely.
Another thing is people get uncomfortable to easy for me to want to talk to most people.

I do,

Just a different modernized MMO than previous old school MMOs that I’ve played,

Social interaction & cohesion were far different back in the day. Back then the worlds were huge & wikis didn’t exist except petty guides in which you came to relynon other’s knowledge & built great foundations of long lasting friends, guilds etc,. which in turn created the era of exploration, golden age nostalgia, whatever, but it also created some of the most aloof, unruly & proud elite-ism,

Modern MMOs you have wiki, guides & in-game directions to take you to places without feeling lost & just not as overwhelming ((fair game for everyone)). Due to this it fostered huge self dependence & group instancing became a norm. This is good, but it also diverted most people from being social to solely focus on supremacy or just highly self centered. In a way social engagement its still alive yet not as prevalent back then,

Hence why most MMO veterans are reluctant for change due to nostalgia, while also the current modern MMO gamers sees it on a different angle,

Neither one is good & bad, ultimately, the change & initiation starts with you all the same & your interaction with other’s

I don't, I see it was a single player game with some multiplayer elements (ie, dungeons you need for the MSQ)

I play this game primarily for the story and my house <3

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

if you think this is an afk simulator, you obviously havent played something like Vindictus.. you actually get rewards from events for simply being logged in... period. you get an event item every 1/2 hour for a max I think of 3 hours. being afk is far more of a thing than it is here. they run these events, almost all the time. oh, they also have a fatigue system, so after doing x number of things you basically have zero to do for xp or rewards, so being afk is what you are left with.

FFxiv has nothing on Vindi.. trust me...

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Sounds like Black Desert tbh, I basically shove myself on a training dummy, go AFK and come back to more exp, skill points and daily log in loot.

I get the feeling people don't socialize a whole lot here because people tend to get reported over silly/stupid things and it somehow get people put in GM jail. It only makes it worse since GM's wont tell you what the issue actually was; thus making it impossible to know what even happened.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

I ask as mostly I find people in this game are not willing to talk to others.
Be it in fc or in the world or in dungeons. Is it a thing in ff14 or a over all problem 8n modern mmo.

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What do you mean? It is marketed and is a MMO.
What else would you call a subscribtion based B2P game?

People don't socialize much at all in these games outside of FC's/Guilds,Companie ect cause of the fear aspect of players who get too involved and go after other players for game play or the like. Some folks are put off by that. All this social media stuff has made us all completely antisocial unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

What do you mean? It is marketed and is a MMO.
What else would you call a subscribtion based B2P game?

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What I mean is where the social part of the game go to. I mostly get no response or people being in shock any one use the chat at all.

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Originally Posted by Alestorm

I get the feeling people don't socialize a whole lot here because people tend to get reported over silly/stupid things and it somehow get people put in GM jail. It only makes it worse since GM's wont tell you what the issue actually was; thus making it impossible to know what even happened.

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You can now what happened,you was reported the magic amount of times to yriger the outomaticly ban system. The gm there to make it look like it's not so buy he never know what's up.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

What I mean is where the social part of the game go to. I mostly get no response or people being in shock any one use the chat at all.

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It all in fc/ls and some in party (in my 8+ year experience at least). There is little to no incentive to talk to randoms. If it was like the older mmos where sharding and cross world wasn't a thing but here its like "will i ever meet this person again"

So voice wonderful voice that most of us use every day.
Let's start with a joke to lighten the mode.
I don't dare to talk. What if they can track me down from the sound of my voice!
Usually a joke, I would say back in my eve days together with a reinsuring answer.
"I promise no one here can track you down by hearing your voice."

Now seriously
First of all, the in-game voice in any game SUCKS except maybe not in DayZ
Do you know why in-game voice sucks?
Because the Devteam concentrates on making a good and pleasing game, not catering to people who got Discord phobia or back in the days Teamspeak and Ventrilo Fobia, they are entirely correct in doing so.
I don't mean this in a bad way to anyone, but even my 80+-year-old father knows how to use Discord, so I'm sure you can get it working too.

So get used to it. No one uses in-game voice unless you start to play DayZ.
PS I'm sorry if I sounded harsh but it is the truth.

I don’t really engage with anyone in game unless someone engages with me.. If you only say “hello” to me i will only return that “hello”. Also i never have my chat window on general tab. I divided the chats so I could separate FC,dm, and instances from general due to general flodding and me not seeing more important chatter.. so i only really talk in those chats. I am no stater of conversations, i simply participate when i find I could add something or if asked a question..

Personally i think when you have environment like these that don’t FORCE interaction you get the more natural response from they typical person who plays games lol.. If they don’t have to they won’t.. I personally prefer it this way.. should be my choice who to engage with in my adventure.. if i engage at all. I play MY .part in the story after all.

I see FF14 not as a mmo. For me it is more a kind of a "lobby loot shooter" ala Destiny 2 but with different aesthetics. Maximum 24 people in a raid is not "massive" for me. And with the excessive usage of instancing and loading screens i have never the feeling that there is a massive amount of players.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

I ask as mostly I find people in this game are not willing to talk to others.
Be it in fc or in the world or in dungeons. Is it a thing in ff14 or a over all problem 8n modern mmo.

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Talking in dungeons rarely happens because people end up focused on what they are doing, by comparison to say our FFXI days where the combat was slow paced enough for it to be social experience. Normally I'll leave it as a greeting and a goodbye just to be polite. However, MSQ roulette can sometimes be a social experience because of the long cutscenes, I've tended to goof off and joke around with people in those, but you don't always get biters as they might have Netflix up (as Praetorium is mostly cutscenes and people do it for the juicy exp).

With FC's, whilst my FC is quite socially active, I don't think our in game channels are because our FC has a Discord and it's easier to communicate through there, we normally hop on voice chat.

And I think general discussions end up happening in Discord's text channels as well, not everybody who participates is in game, so I think in game channels get used less as a result and this is given that most people have a Discord and are logged in whilst they play.

This is a product of multiple things. Mostly it's that game focuses on the gameplay over socialization aspects. The only content you can really do and socialize at the same time, without any other mediums, is crafting and gathering.

Other than that, it's because of who is playing. The older MMO players are at the point in life where they don't really go out of their way to make friends, for the most part. There's not much novel to it for them, or they got burnt by it in the past.
The younger folks, for the most part, don't/won't associate with people who aren't enough like them. This can vary, but in my experience it's mostly true. It's somewhat a product of human nature, too. It's easier to bounce conversation with people who know the memes/shows/references you're lobbing at them, than those who don't.

Basically, there's a generational divide, and it's not just in the game design. MMOs have had this forever, but it's especially pronounced in FFXIV. I've literally raided with people who are 10~12 years younger than me, which isn't something I thought I'd ever be saying, and while I've really enjoyed all the people I've raided with, we didn't have enough in common outside of raid time to really keep a friendship up. The game design aids in this isolation, because outside of raids, I don't need to team up with anybody pretty much ever to get anything done, so I don't have to set a date or time or try to maintain a friendship that I otherwise wouldn't.

Contrast with FFXI, which I started playing at the age of 13. I was constantly playing with people older than myself, sometimes people 11~20 years my senor. I had many jovial conversations with such people, trying to make friends with them the best that I could, and I'm still friends with a few of them, and back in the day any of them were happy to come duo demons with me in Castle Zvahl or help me get up to the top of Uleguerande Range for the ENM stuff(outside of major events). Of course, everything you did outside of event time actually improved your gearsets, so it was a feedback loop to success to be like that.

Goals are a lot more specific now too, and require a lot less people to obtain. With the exception of Delubnum Reginae Savage and Baldesion Arsenal, nothing is really akin to old MMO prospects.

There's a lot to why people don't talk! I myself always try to pivot off people's character choices/race/glam/name etc. Try not to worry about it and let it come natural when it does.

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The social aspect and prime time of MMORPG’s are long over. What once were games designed to talk to people from around the world and go on adventures with, has been reduced to more of a ‘single player’ game but with other players around.

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Not true at all. I talk to people all the time, we all chat to each other. After we pull, we FOCUS on what we are doing, tank callouts or heals positioning for example. People talk all the time, your error is in assuming you cant see it so it isnt happening.

That "silent player" may be having a riot in Discord...just because you cant see it, doesnt mean it isnt happening. I may not chat in typed comments..but I am in my Discord channel with a few others trading Dad jokes and conversations. You cant see it or hear it, but there it is nonetheless.

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I was glad I played MMO’s during the prime of it. I do try talking to other people in dungeons because I’m a social butterfly, I LOVEEE people.. but usually, I get one word answers or find myself speaking alone.

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Thats more to the point of being focussed on the instance, focussing on what you are doing, watching AOE's, on movement, on mechanics. Im with other people in a run and I have to have my head in the game, not chatting about what i had for lunch.

You CANT stop and type chat in the middle of Deltascape.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Not true at all. I talk to people all the time, we all chat to each other. After we pull, we FOCUS on what we are doing, tank callouts or heals positioning for example. People talk all the time, your error is in assuming you cant see it so it isnt happening.

That "silent player" may be having a riot in Discord...just because you cant see it, doesnt mean it isnt happening. I may not chat in typed comments..but I am in my Discord channel with a few others trading Dad jokes and conversations. You cant see it or hear it, but there it is nonetheless.

Thats more to the point of being focussed on the instance, focussing on what you are doing, watching AOE's, on movement, on mechanics. Im with other people in a run and I have to have my head in the game, not chatting about what i had for lunch.

You CANT stop and type chat in the middle of Deltascape.

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My statement is based on my own observations, I have 15+ years of MMORPG experience and branched out to a variety of them beyond WoW and FF. Judging by the way you’re talking, I assume this must be your first MMO if you’re genuinely disregarding my previous post and insisting MMO’s haven’t become mainly anti social.

You are speaking from a very uncommon point of view. I don’t know a few people, let alone many, who are on discord with eachother & talking. Majoritively, people are just solo playing the game. If you were to play on random dungeons and ask at least 10 people if they are talking to others on discord and you’ll get the majority saying no.

Even in the earlier dungeons which is the most easiest and have experienced players that can do it with their eyes closed, people are still less inclined to speak and believe it or not, even though I say things beyond “hello” at the start of the dungeon, I still get ignored or get given blunt replies.

Also to add, even in major cities in the game the social aspect is non existent considering it’s essentially a hang out area (depending on the server I suppose). People do not publicly speak anymore, they just whisper or party chat - you wouldn’t of had that being the norm in MMO’s 10+ years ago.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

Also to add, even in major cities in the game the social aspect is non existent considering it’s essentially a hang out area (depending on the server I suppose). People do not publicly speak anymore, they just whisper or party chat - you wouldn’t of had that being the norm in MMO’s 10+ years ago.

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I would have to say this is very likely very world dependent.

in the major cities here there is a LOT of "public speaking" as you put it.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I would have to say this is very likely very world dependent.

in the major cities here there is a LOT of "public speaking" as you put it.

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Well, they are on the EU worlds, so maybe that's more of a language thing or social differences between countries.

Limsa is always packed with people chatting on jenova.


And I've played a dozen or so mmos over my life, and I never really talked with randoms.

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

everytime i login i have a clear goal in mind and i focus on completeing that goal before i log off, making friends is not part of that goal

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You must be fun at parties. I do both, but then again I go out of my way to help others if needed. Why play an MMO if you are that anti social?

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

You must be fun at parties. I do both, but then again I go out of my way to help others if needed. Why play an MMO if you are that anti social?

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Maybe they like the gameplay? Who are you or anyone to say they shouldn't play the game?
I sit and craft for most part don't talk much when im doing that, should I un-sub too?

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

You must be fun at parties. I do both, but then again I go out of my way to help others if needed. Why play an MMO if you are that anti social?

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I don't go to parties, but I'm pretty sure even at large parties people mostly group up with their friends.

Kinda like people do in mmos.


I have friends 8 talk to while playing, and outside of game. I talk to randoms if there is reason, but if not? Why should I. I don't engage with randoms in person, either, for many of the same reasons I don't in game.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

You must be fun at parties. I do both, but then again I go out of my way to help others if needed. Why play an MMO if you are that anti social?

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Since we're generalizing people, you seem like the kinda person who goes up to girls and gives them "compliments" and then gets butthurt when they think you're being a creep. Why play an MMO? Because I want to, who are you to imply I or anyone else is a bad person for not wanting to talk to you.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

I ask as mostly I find people in this game are not willing to talk to others.
Be it in fc or in the world or in dungeons. Is it a thing in ff14 or a over all problem 8n modern mmo.

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There is no requirement that you talk to others in a Massively Multiplayer Online game. Note the absence of communication in the acronym. As long as it's large scale, online, and played by multiple people at one time, it's an MMO. Your statement is like saying that a community center is not a community center because the random strangers you encounter there aren't proactively welcoming you into their community. MMOs enable socialization. It's not their job to force it. I find that most people in this game are, in fact, more than willing to talk to others. If players aren't communicating with you specifically, you should exercise a little introspection to determine why that is.

Consider that other players have interests and agendas that are not necessarily aligned with your own. Personally, I'm reluctant to interact with players who aren't happily married or heavily invested in a relationship because I've been burned in the past. One player that I considered a good friend fired off a very personal e-mail to my wife, creeping her out and prompting her to quit Guild Wars. I've also known a handful of women who flirted with me to the point of discomfort despite my telling them that I was happily married and uninterested in those kinds of in-game interactions. So while I used to treat my fellow players as friends, I now treat them more like co-workers in a casual setting.

My advice to you is to stay kind of quiet for the first few days in a new FC, testing out the waters and discovering what kinds of interests your fellow FC members have. If those interests align with yours, then wade into conversations gradually with your own insights. If they don't, then find a different FC. Trying to impose your own personal preferences on others never ends well.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Thats more to the point of being focussed on the instance, focussing on what you are doing, watching AOE's, on movement, on mechanics. Im with other people in a run and I have to have my head in the game, not chatting about what i had for lunch.

You CANT stop and type chat in the middle of Deltascape.

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This is a good point. When players ask why others don't like the idea of skewing more gameplay towards hard content, this is exactly why. When you combine go go go style gameplay with complex one-shot mechanics, you wind up with an entire game full of players with this point of view. I'm the same way right now. I'm too busy dodging stuff, managing my 12-button rotation, and/or trying to learn the bosses' tells to pay attention to your eloquent recap of the day's events. It definitely makes for a less social game.

I know this is an echo chamber and if you don't yell 'the sky is falling' about pretty much everything when it gets implemented you're doing it wrong here but honestly, yes, I think MMOs should cater to groups (unpopular opinion alert, I know lol). Bonus points if it's about healers.

At the end of the day it's nice to have options so to each their own, but I'll never understand how you can play an MMO without the social interaction. For me that's like the best part. But then again, I'm a social person.

And, yes, I quite often stop what I'm doing and just help randoms. Sure, I don't get as much done but the best stories happen in those moments. I still remember certain encounters in XI and that was over... um... 15 (?) years ago.

If anything, party play should be encouraged.

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Originally Posted by BigHoffie

Since we're generalizing people, you seem like the kinda person who goes up to girls and gives them "compliments" and then gets butthurt when they think you're being a creep. Why play an MMO? Because I want to, who are you to imply I or anyone else is a bad person for not wanting to talk to you.

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Yeah, sure. But MMOs come with expectations. And I throw out another unpopular opinion. Solo only players are slowly eroding the entire foundation. Sure, that's certainly not the only reason why most content is brain-dead in terms of difficulty but it's certainly a part of it. The very underutilised overworld comes to mind. Can't have any real difficult encounters because then people would have to talk to one another. The horror. lol Eh, your sub. I still think you're playing an MMO wrong, though.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

At the end of the day it's nice to have options so to each their own, but I'll never understand how you can play an MMO without the social interaction.

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That's exactly right, generally speaking, and also to the latter bit that's perfectly okay.

Honestly I think sport videogames are just... O_o.... o_O.... ?? Y Tho?? Particularly football (both 'American' and 'European' variants), for whatever reason I feel snowboarding games are fun sometimes (though I don't go out of my way to play them). Would rather play the sport, or do something incredible (like fighting dragons). Playing sport video games just sounds like a punishment to me. . . Would you like to play FIFA XYZ? Me: "I'd rather work".

Yet there is no reason I'd want them removed (though from a third person perspective I did wish they were less predatory on the whole loot box stuff, that part just seems rough).

Similarly for things like game difficulty. For a long period, of my much younger life, I looked at easy and normal like "scrub mode" for those who just couldn't figure out how their fingers worked. Via both maturity, why does it matter what others do? Seems silly and a bit childish if everyone is having fun in and of itself (to a certain extent, there are exceptions of course- multiplayer games with hacking would be a zero tolerance zone), and my own evolution of time available, now I look at easy mode as sometimes "thank god you added that, I can finish this game within my schedule and ultimately get to enjoy more games rather than like 1 game over a period of 4 months".

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Originally Posted by Scott

The Gameplay is just to fast to chat. Back in FFXI I always talked during leveling partys and stuff but in XIV there is just no time to talk because you are constantly busy pressing buttons.

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This. FFXI and older MMOs were slower paced, which allowed people to type in the chat while also playing the game. You had several moments between pressing any buttons where you were just autoattacking, or even just running to the next destination with your group. There is no more downtime in games like XIV, if you are playing the game you are pressing buttons 100% of the time or you are not doing it right. The only people I see chatting during an instance are the ones who are not actually contributing.

Could be addressed by adding an actual voice chat function in the game itself that connects you to your party in an instance (like I believe GTAV has), but this would need the majority of the playerbase to have and be using a headset and I'm sure many would want the option to turn it off and ignore others. "Toxicity" and all.

I see this as an mmo, you play with different people and allow social interaction if you allow yourself to.

As relationships in general its pure RNG, you might end up in a really open arms group, you might end up in a bad interaction and so on. Trial and error, don't lose faith or you will end up alone and grumpy like me.

.. just because I'm in a "public" area, doesn't mean I wanna talk to people. If I could have as diverse and supported an experience in a client hosted coop game (I do play with my friends), then I would.

Bummer if you think this "ruins" MMOs.. but they must be doing something right if so many people want to play the game.