New Gear... for class only? [Glaring Issue] [Request]

my small amount of input is that for me, soloing in Natalan on my MRD is much easier than on WAR and i can easily keep a steady flow of combat going. That being said I use WAR in all other situations.

I agree with the people who say they would like more reasons to use classes.

I hope as more classes are released the strengths in versatlility grow significantly with the addition of new cross classable abilities.

One more missing piece of the puzzle are battle regimens. It might be nice if those are useful enough and class versatility allows for more flexibility in putting regimens together.

While DRG is nice and all I survive in instances A LOT better as LNC what with me being able to use more abilities. Kind of makes me mad too. SE should do something about THAT IMO. So I don't mind it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

There's one problem here though - you are severely neglecting the potential of cross-classing abilities. Losing hate? What about archer abilities? You have massive hate on you? Pop Chameleon, instant downer. Freeze has a, what, 5 second cast timer? Can be interrupted? If you really wanted enmity gone, you would use those other abilities. Flare. Long cast time. Must be around you to hit. Fire combo. Faster cast time. You can be a RANGED attacker as well.

Shroud of Saints - last 20 seconds. Recast timer, 3 minutes. Less with CNJ ability. And TEMPORARY reduction. Holy - all MP gone. Oh, lovely....now I can't do anything else. And Holy is not a normal NUKING magic - it's situational...

---

First, I see you've forgotten that BLM takes it's abilities from Archer. Therefore, it's got Chamerleon. Also, just because spells have a long cast timer doesn't mean they aren't really useful. Infact, Flare is essential to our LS AV runs. Also, more than likely if you are casting Freeze, your standing still anyway. I mean, mages need to stand still in order to regain MP anyway. Obviously, they need to stand still to cast to. Any spell can be interrupted if they move.

Okay, lol, first, I think someone has forgotten what sarcasm means. Obviously, I was not being serious when I said Holy. But in that instance, it does not take a long time for a WHM to regain MP, especially with a Bard in the party(which is another resaon why anyone would take a Bard over and Archer), and Blissful Mind. And yes, Shroud of Saints only lasts for a certain amount of time. But honestly, I've nuked on WHM. Never really had a hate problem in small parties.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

I'll only deal with the four classes/jobs I major in. I already expressed my LNC/DRG above.

ARC and BRD damage the same? Dear me, Invigorate and Blood for Blood increase the ARC's damage tremendously over the BRD. Since you love to use self-heal as an example to counter against classes, I'll use this as a case where ARC's can self-heal better than BRD with second wind and bloodbath. ARC's can have a higher chance of evading attacks on Featherfoot. Survivability of an ARC versus a BRD in solo situations? Winner goes to ARC.

---

Paeon of war gives you far more tp than Invigorate which in turn lets you spam far more weapon skills which in turn lets you do a ton more damage than an arc can possibly do.
Even with blood for blood you still cant beat paeon of war for its increase in damage. sure maybe you get your bns from seeing an uber weapon skill every 60 seconds. but in that 60 seconds the tp from paeon can see you put out 3-4 weapon skills if you 2 step combo them no way 1 blood for blood for blood can compete with that and i havent even mentioned rain of death yet.

survivability is moot. if your soloing on arc/brd then your forever mobile to keep at combo range reducing your damage and with heavy and shadow bind you get more than enough time to cure and stoneskin yourself when you need to.

and then theres the old addage of it can't hurt you if its dead. the extra damage a brd can put out increases a bards survivability in itself

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Paeon of War can't be used immediately at the start of the battle. Yes, it may last longer, but the initial burst of TP from invigorate helps out faster, instead of standing there peppering arrows at the enemies, using paeon of war, peppering enemies again...You mentioned burning down enemies faster as a DRG rather than a LNC. Well, wouldn't an ARC burn down enemies faster than a BRD? And accuracy? Hawk's eye? Are we forgetting the normal abilities that ARC had already, and using BRD ones to justify? .

---

True but you can get a paeon of war off within 5 seconds of a fight using 1 lightshot and quelling strike on your barrage. given the time it takes for invigorate to get you tp, 5 seconds to paeon of war is nothing.

as for accuracy. when does a arc/brd ever miss really? they have insanely high accuracy and are pretty much known to never miss.
vs moogles my accuracy is typically around 99% and though my garuda experience is limited my accuracy was averaging 97% yesterday. the only accuracy buffs i have are from flame sergants sash and af hat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galliano

my small amount of input is that for me, soloing in Natalan on my MRD is much easier than on WAR and i can easily keep a steady flow of combat going. That being said I use WAR in all other situations.

---

This is just not true. Steel Cyclone is what makes WAR by far the best solo job in the game and MRD doesn't get it.

I do find LNC survivability much better than DRG, though. At Ifrit if your party is shaky and you need to bring a LNC/DRG, I'd recommend LNC because of Sentinel and Raise. The extra HP doesn't hurt, either.

To many people need to spam raise / sentinel at everything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KiraAmane

I would like to know if people agree, and if so, will SE consider changing it so Jobs can utilize the new gear.

---

I think in some ways you've answered your own question. SE is working to create a greater definition between job and class. We are going to see more of this in the run-up to 2.0 not less. At some point we undoubtedly will see new crafted items available to jobs, but that might not happen till they can finally lift the cap. They also have yet to introduce the JSE weapons which are supposed to have an upgrade path of some sort, so it would make no sense to make to introduce new crafted items just to blow them out of the water when JSE is added.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matsume

Oh... Do tell...

---

I do around two company leves a day for a quick 220.
What's there to tell?

What's wrong with class specific equipment? Classes are a part of the game., as are jobs. In some instances, it may be better to use a class. And please don't counter this with instances in which jobs are better, as there are instances in which classes work better. You don't like class exclusive armor? Would you rather more armor that would blow your AF and current gear that jobs can use into uselessness? How would they implement it? Anything better than that would have to be harder to obtain, and at present, that's not an option that they can add.

My only advice is this. Either ignore it all if you don't like it and wait for content you do like, quit playing, or quit bitching and being close-minded. Classes are staying, and for them to be decent when they need to be, they need decent equipment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KiraAmane

I've never soloed better on my class than my job. Here, I'll even break it down, and I'd like you to tell me how the job is worse than the class.

GLA versus PLD -- PLD sacrifices some HP, for higher VIT, more DMG skills, more heals, more mp. Winner, Job.

LNC versus DRG -- DRG has much more dmg, can self cure with dead spike. I can solo 7 rank 50-52 mobs on my DRG. I can't even come close on my LNC. Winner, DRG.

ARC versus BRD -- ARC and BRD DMG is similar. The songs however favor the BRD. You can raise on BRD and heal on BRD. Winner, BRD.

CNJ versus WHM -- Regen on WHM. Enough said. Winner, job.

THM versus BLM is pretty close. THM is very useful at times, but loses out on overall dmg to BLM slightly. We've tried it a lot. Same stats etc. I'd say this is even.

PGL versus MNK -- You can self heal on PGL, but your MNK is a MONSTER on dps. If you aren't evading and stunning enough its not that PGL is better or useful as a solo class, you just aren't playing MNK properly. Pacification, kicks, more dmg overall on MNK. Winner, JOB.

Seriously, I don't see any argument for saying Classes can Solo better than Jobs. Not trying to be a dick or start an argument, but I'd like to know when a class >> job. Please don't say lolraises. If you are having to raise in parties, your healers or your tank is messing up. Simple.

---

Of course soloing at lv50 is a much easier task for your job, however doing it from 30-50 is far from a breeze when compared to your class. You can die a lot easier when your on a job instead of your class.

GLA/PLD: soloing as a PLD from 30-50 can mean life/death when you can't rely on your free instant heal second wind. Sure you can cure yourself but in most cases(like maxing guildleves) you need that instant heal to help you stay alive mixed with your cures.

LNC/DRG: DRG has the damage but again from 30-50 not having those safety nets can get you killed a lot more than just switching as your class.

No point in just repeating the samething so I'll stop here. DoM might be the only exception(not much of a mage guy) but for a DoW 30-50 can be slept through as a class. Jobs will require you to stay more on point unless you are soloing very easy mobs.

As stated it's not that jobs can't solo and classes can't party. It's just a shift in playstyle with different pros and cons. When it comes to soloing you should not be dying more than on your job and in a party your class shouldn't be out damaging it's respective job.

They each give an edge in certain situations but the edge is not too big to make up for it. A class will bring less damage to a party but brings in support that its respective job can't do. A strategy is a strategy and regardless if you use it or not, it doesn't make it any less viable if it executes and gets the job done.

This thread.


...But seriously. Need to make classes more varied than they are, IMO.

from lodestone classes and jobs :

quote

Characters can don the gear of the base class as well as job-specific gear.

I don't see the need for class specific gear, if you are going to make new gear just make it suitable for both class and job.

Darksteel would be awesome if it was class and job as would the new weapons. :(

Now I do appreciate that classes do have their place but I don't really see the need for specific class only items.

Another good reason to use classes, pld does not lend itself well to level grinding, and mrd/war are the preferred tank for level parties. So a sword user would probably want to switch to a gld setup geared toward DD in order to level in those situations.

I'm actually protesting the classes because of the ridiculous trade off I feel more useful as a gladiator with Cure/Protect/Raise then I would give that up as a PLD if people hate me for it so be it but I would much rather stay the classes and not have a job because I've got the ability to be a tank/support tank or DPS and support heal and raise when needed. The Jobs should add to the fun not handicap it and the game should be balanced for it not balanced to force using jobs in party. I might as well hang my hat up as far as doing raids and such and just aid as a sword for hire or PL people...

Its already been said, but class-specific gear exists to give you more trade-offs between choosing a class or a job. Its hard for ppl to accept, but SE is intending that "class" is always a viable choice when tackling content. I approve of class-only gear, I don't see the problem. An arc can still pwn a bard's single-target damage within a party, and a GLA can still out-tank a PLD. So really, let's not be silly here. A class still kicks ass, ppl just like jobs because they are the new flavor of the month. SE gave you class-only gear to remind you that classes have a role. You may not see it now, but time will show you the way!

Haven't been too interested in Lancer, but did Keen Flurry help out with Quick Nock to do another Wide Volley combo sooner?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

Haven't been too interested in Lancer, but did Keen Flurry help out with Quick Nock to do another Wide Volley combo sooner?

---

quick knock has no impact on wide volley. 2 different combo's

but a bard will out damage an archer with paeon of war and rain of death even on single targets.

keen flurry and invigorate cannot compete with the ability to spam your 10second skills repeatedly even without comboing them. and rain of death just pwns

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

quick knock has no impact on wide volley. 2 different combo's

but a bard will out damage an archer with paeon of war and rain of death even on single targets.

keen flurry and invigorate cannot compete with the ability to spam your 10second skills repeatedly even without comboing them. and rain of death just pwns

---

You have to clarify that you are talking about solo play. In a party an arc will pwn brd on single target, unless the brd is way better than the arc. The arc will gain the benefits of the bard's paeon of war, if a bard uses that at all, and the arc will have access to invigorate, blood for blood, and keen flurry on top of it. Bard trades some of arc's raw power for support skills, that is the benefit and drawback of the job. Arc is a pure dps class, Bard is a support dps class. This is one example of how classes are still viable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frein

This is just not true. Steel Cyclone is what makes WAR by far the best solo job in the game and MRD doesn't get it.

---

It get a nerf with 1.22b

I was a little disappointed when I saw I wouldn't be able to use these weapons on jobs but if they want to make classes feel special that's up to them.
I never intend to play a class again. I didn't like them too much in the beginning, and they still fail to interest me. Now that we have jobs I see no reason for them.

I think classes and jobs coexisting is just muddling the water's for SE and creates way too many headaches down the road in terms of balance. This is Final Fantasy take pride in the job system SE and embrace it!

I like the suggestion that classes should become jobs at level 30. Perhaps they can make the opening job quest much like Limit Break In FFXI where in order to progress your experience further you need to complete the first job quest. Once you have access to the soul you can continue on your way to 50. This creates a minor roadblock for players which would help with the leveling is too fast complaints while simultaneously not being as back-breaking as FFXI's limit breaks were and could be done within an hour or two.

Lore wise you can fit it into 2.0 as the jobs now being readily known which leads adventures to take up the classes in the hopes that they can surpass the barrier needed to become a job, which would be the level 30 quest.

Seriously if SE came out tomorrow and said they were ditching classes at 30 in favor of jobs there would be only minor complaints. Also it helps new players because it doesn't muddle the waters. Coming into this game and having to deal with classes and jobs and which to use and when is a major pain in the butt for new players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkillumina

I like the suggestion that classes should become jobs at level 30.

---

I like it too but.. It's very difficult to take something away from people that a large amount of them like.
Because some of us hate/dislike classes doesn't mean they should be taken away from others. (For myself, as I said, I simply won't play them.) I don't like that classes are so similar to jobs.. Same type of weapons I mean. That makes classes more boring for me. Jobs have these cool weapons and AF and a Final Fantasy feel that classes lack. Classes have always felt out of place to me.

But anyways, that's all just opinion... I think classes shouldn't have been in the game from the start. But since they were.. and people enjoy them, and especially since Yoshida-san said that he wouldn't take away things we'd made progress on when remaking the game... I'm pretty confident that they're here to stay.

I'm not bothered at ALL by other people playing classes.. (I'd invite them to my party). And if SE wants to (in my opinion "waste")-spend time improving them then they should. Classes just aren't for me is all. It's nice to see that others enjoy them though. I thought they'd flop totally once jobs hit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkillumina

Seriously if SE came out tomorrow and said they were ditching classes at 30 in favor of jobs there would be only minor complaints.

---

I'm unsure about this. It seems many people have become accustomed to classes and enjoy them very much.. I think there would be some kind of outrage. Especially since Yoshida-san has said you keep your progress in 2.0, and this could be seen as such.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nabiri

I like it too but.. It's very difficult to take something away from people that a large amount of them like.
Because some of us hate/dislike classes doesn't mean they should be taken away from others. (For myself, as I said, I simply won't play them.) I don't like that classes are so similar to jobs.. Same type of weapons I mean. That makes classes more boring for me. Jobs have these cool weapons and AF and a Final Fantasy feel that classes lack. Classes have always felt out of place to me.

But anyways, that's all just opinion... I think classes shouldn't have been in the game from the start. But since they were.. and people enjoy them, and especially since Yoshida-san said that he wouldn't take away things we'd made progress on when remaking the game... I'm pretty confident that they're here to stay.

I'm not bothered at ALL by other people playing classes.. (I'd invite them to my party). And if SE wants to (in my opinion "waste")-spend time improving them then they should. Classes just aren't for me is all. It's nice to see that others enjoy them though. I thought they'd flop totally once jobs hit.



I'm unsure about this. It seems many people have become accustomed to classes and enjoy them very much.. I think there would be some kind of outrage. Especially since Yoshida-san has said you keep your progress in 2.0, and this could be seen as such.

---

It really is retarded to have 2 jobs that essentially do the same thing. It's also dumb to have imo a job that leads into another job, just do like FFXI. Stop trying new stuff. If it isn't broken don't fix it.

P.S. Stop using diff font color like you are someone important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliseus

It really is retarded to have 2 jobs that essentially do the same thing. It's also dumb to have imo a job that leads into another job, just do like FFXI. Stop trying new stuff. If it isn't broken don't fix it.

P.S. Stop using diff font color like you are someone important.

---

Nabiri IS someone important.
4 golds and 3 silvers in only 917 posts? Girl's magic. She can use mauve if she wants.

I agree that it's silly to have similar jobs doing nearly the same thing.. But that's the way the game started and they decided to keep it. Some might argue that classes aren't broken so don't fix(get rid of) them. :x

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliseus

P.S. Stop using diff font color like you are someone important.

---

Oh, I was unaware that important people use different colours. Bonus! :3
Here I was using it because I love the colour and seeing it makes me happy. Same reason I dye my hair this colour. :D I hope purple hair doesn't offend you as well. (Btw I love whoever that dude is who uses orange text. Such a bright happy colour.)
Oh, and P.S. "Stop using the same font colour like you're someone not important!" I guess.. since we're in the habit of bossing each other around suddenly. XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gramul

Nabiri IS someone important.
4 golds and 3 silvers in only 917 posts? Girl's magic. She can use mauve if she wants.

---

/blush :x What a gentleman.

I like my THM. I use it when I go solo. I prefer it to BLM. If I do not need sleepga, I still prefer THM to BLM.

Yet, I would still say... I would be in favour of removing all 'classes' from 2.0 and going with a job only system.

That being said... I would not mind if THM was 'morphed' into a Job seperate from BLM. Getting rid of this 'equip weapon to be a class' concept and the 'equip job stone' workaround so we can be a job.

Then everyone's happy... we log on into 2.0. I have level 50 THM *AND* Level 50 BLM. I can choose whichever I want to be, and equip weapons more freely.

We also get the 'bonus' of suddenly having 14 'jobs' available to us! And perhaps some fine tweaking to all the class/jobs to make them more distinct. Et voila, everyone is happy.

In what way classes exist bothering you? I dont understand with the hate for class. The design is already stated, classes for more general play and job for specialised play. THM can be a support buffer, ARC can be optimized DD etc... why limit the options?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aion

In what way classes exist bothering you? I dont understand with the hate for class. The design is already stated, classes for more general play and job for specialised play. THM can be a support buffer, ARC can be optimized DD etc... why limit the options?

---

The only reason they kept the classes in the first place was because they didn't want to redo the whole armoury system, so they just added on to it with the stones that turn the class into a job. I'm hoping they do away with classes altogether and just keep jobs. It seems pretty pointless to have both, you can say that solo'n with classes is much easier but from my experience it's the same if not easier to solo with a job over a class.

P.S. Getting back on topic, I hope that new Gryphonskin Jerkin can be used by jobs... If it can't I'll be so sad :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliseus

It really is retarded to have 2 jobs that essentially do the same thing. It's also dumb to have imo a job that leads into another job, just do like FFXI. Stop trying new stuff. If it isn't broken don't fix it.

---

This is not FFXI. This is FFXIV. I'm sorry to disappoint you with this information, but it's a reality you are just going to have to accept. You don't want SE to try new stuff? Then, what's going to draw people in? Pretty graphics aren't all that makes a game, and if the content in the game is all just copy & paste, why not play a cheaper/free game? If everyone lived by "Oh, that's new, I won't touch it." We'd still be in caves, with pointed sticks.

Also, if you'd stop looking at classes and jobs doing the same thing, I'm sure you'd find that they really don't. In the case of Lancer and Dragoon, Dragoon trades off it's survivability for extra damage and TP gain. Whereas staying on Lancer gives you better survivability through cures, stoneskin, etc.

To be honest, LNC/DRG are the only things I can say this with and know I'm right, so anything beyond this, I'd love for someone who knows to be able to correct me.

Marauder and Warrior. I'm not too sure that Warrior loses anything at the moment, but after 1.22b, it may be a trade-off between damage and tanking ability.

Archer and Bard. Well, Archer is straight DPS while Bard is more support. I'd assume that while doing your songs, you won't be attacking or using weaponskills, thus lowering your DPS in order to support your party.

Conjurer and White Mage. Conjurer is able to be a very good magic-using DD, while White Mage takes away abilities to augment that damage for better healing abilities.

Thaumaturge and Black Mage. See Lancer above.

Gladiator and Paladin. At the moment, is seems Paladin offers nothing to make it truly superior to Gladiator in any way, but after 1.22b it seems that it will also be a trade-off for DD capabilities or tanking.

To help with my point of a good use of classes and jobs, let's look at the Ifrit fight. There are multiple strategies for it, but I'll use the most generally accepted one. 1 WAR, 2 WHMS, 5 THMs/4THMs, 1 LNC. Why THM and LNC? They can take hits better, with the right abilities, so as to not cause a wipe while still dealing decent damage. I'd like to watch you do it with all jobs.

I have nothing for verification on this, so I also apologize if this is incorrect.
I believe it has been said by one of the devs that classes are here to stay. If you want jobs only, go back to FFXI. Complaining about things like this, while not adding anything that would be a reasonable fix, and would also not make the people working on this game go completely batty, is cluttering up our forums that are supposed to be used for the betterment of our communities, and the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Natabant

P.S. Getting back on topic, I hope that new Gryphonskin Jerkin can be used by jobs... If it can't I'll be so sad :(

---

Don't hope too much

Quote:

---

1.22
-NEW- High-level recipes
-NEW- Addition of class-exclusive high-level recipes
* Planned to be highly challenging synthesis.

---

Letter from the Producer, XXVI (03/26/2012)

I say I love my THM, and my BLM

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reve

This makes the most sense. Maybe with a level cap increase the classes won't go beyond Lv.50. Like some people have said it's going to be more and more difficult to keep classes and jobs similar and different at the same time. It's like having two jobs do virtually the same thing. You wouldn't add the Black Belt job when the game already has MNK. Things get repetitive. I would rather have SE worrying about creating many varied and unique jobs, than trying think how it will work as a job and a class.

---

Maybe they should have just capped the abilities a class learns at level 30 and the job learns the rest of the abilities as it levels up. Of course this would create a lot of problems with the current balance of the game probably, especially at how difficult the AF quests are at level. But people do seem to want harder content!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akumu

Of course soloing at lv50 is a much easier task for your job, however doing it from 30-50 is far from a breeze when compared to your class. You can die a lot easier when your on a job instead of your class.

---

The point is, this gear is like level 49. It really doesn't help with the leveling process. All it is is overglorified soloing gear, which as other people have stated above, jobs can solo better than most classes. I can almost guarantee even with a full set of double melded gear, a class would not be more useful than a job on Garuda.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orophin

Maybe they should have just capped the abilities a class learns at level 30 and the job learns the rest of the abilities as it levels up. Of course this would create a lot of problems with the current balance of the game probably, especially at how difficult the AF quests are at level. But people do seem to want harder content!


The point is, this gear is like level 49. It really doesn't help with the leveling process. All it is is overglorified soloing gear, which as other people have stated above, jobs can solo better than most classes. I can almost guarantee even with a full set of double melded gear, a class would not be more useful than a job on Garuda.

---

Classes are not only good for solo, if you think this you should probably revisit the game. There are a number of reasons why anyone would choose a class over a job in a party, precisely because jobs are often over-specialized. Class only gear makes perfect sense, and since you're not quite understanding the system you should dedicate a bit more time to your classes. Course you never have to use a class just like you never have to use a job. Its up to you, options are great aren't they? Ive said it a billion times in this thread, but an arc will pwn a bard's single target dps in a party. Thats just one example. After the patch, an MRD will probably pwn a Warrior's aoe damage in a party...a GLA's dmg pwns Paladin for the same tanking efficiency as of now, Pgl can off-tank far better than monk, and LNC has much higher survivability than DRG for less damage capabilities. Classes were made with the ability to do more than one thing. Ppl just used them like jobs from FFXI because ppl can't let FFXI stay in the past. Now that actual jobs came out, no one sees the difference when its been there all along.

Dosnt anybody read the patch notes? back when they were talking about jobs coming out and when they did come out, they said they were also going to release class specific gear and weps.... We knew this... stop complaining lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Classes are not only good for solo, if you think this you should probably revisit the game. There are a number of reasons why anyone would choose a class over a job in a party, precisely because jobs are often over-specialized. Class only gear makes perfect sense, and since you're not quite understanding the system you should dedicate a bit more time to your classes. Course you never have to use a class just like you never have to use a job. Its up to you, options are great aren't they? Ive said it a billion times in this thread, but an arc will pwn a bard's single target dps in a party. Thats just one example. After the patch, an MRD will probably pwn a Warrior's aoe damage in a party...a GLA's dmg pwns Paladin for the same tanking efficiency as of now, Pgl can off-tank far better than monk, and LNC has much higher survivability than DRG for less damage capabilities. Classes were made with the ability to do more than one thing. Ppl just used them like jobs from FFXI because ppl can't let FFXI stay in the past. Now that actual jobs came out, no one sees the difference when its been there all along.

---

Can you tell me in any of these situations where classes are better for Garuda, or any full party content for that matter?

People are going to bring a bard over an archer for party utility unless more than 2 archers are needed.
MRD isn't going to be brought as a pure DPS; WAR's abilities will still earn it a spot as main tank/off tank.
Paladin is getting super buffed and won't be out-tanked by Gladiator.
Pugilist or MNK off-tanking anything? Right.

Pick examples based on relevant content and don't just throw things out there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orophin

Can you tell me in any of these situations where classes are better for Garuda, or any full party content for that matter?

People are going to bring a bard over an archer for party utility unless more than 2 archers are needed.
MRD isn't going to be brought as a pure DPS; WAR's abilities will still earn it a spot as main tank/off tank.
Paladin is getting super buffed and won't be out-tanked by Gladiator.
Pugilist or MNK off-tanking anything? Right.

Pick examples based on relevant content and don't just throw things out there.

---

Ppl will choose whatever they perceive to be the "best," regardless of the other viable choices out there. You choose a class based on what you have access to, and what roles/setups work best for the players participating. I might roll 2 whms, I might roll 1 whm for heals, and 1 cnj for constant protect/stoneskin/shell refreshes as well as dps/backup heal. I might run a war main tank and a pgl off-tank instead of a war...since wars generate way too much enmity while they dps. I might take an arc and one bard, to maximize the arc's single target dps and retain party support from the bard. I might take a gla as a tank over a war due its ability to prism cure, and reduce damage through defense and blocks. This would take pressure off of the whm and create a lot of enmity. I might take lnc over dragoon if I need dps thats less squishy and can take care of itself. It really just depends on what my party setup is. Class-only gear *makes* all of these classes viable for endgame content, which is precisely why it exists.

I might take a thm over a blm because its dmg is comparable, and I have an extra rez/backup heals if I need them. The possibilities are endless, ppl really need to expand their horizons and think outside of tiny boxes at a time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ulric

This is not FFXI. This is FFXIV. I'm sorry to disappoint you with this information, but it's a reality you are just going to have to accept. You don't want SE to try new stuff? Then, what's going to draw people in? Pretty graphics aren't all that makes a game, and if the content in the game is all just copy & paste, why not play a cheaper/free game? If everyone lived by "Oh, that's new, I won't touch it." We'd still be in caves, with pointed sticks.

Also, if you'd stop looking at classes and jobs doing the same thing, I'm sure you'd find that they really don't. In the case of Lancer and Dragoon, Dragoon trades off it's survivability for extra damage and TP gain. Whereas staying on Lancer gives you better survivability through cures, stoneskin, etc.

To be honest, LNC/DRG are the only things I can say this with and know I'm right, so anything beyond this, I'd love for someone who knows to be able to correct me.

Marauder and Warrior. I'm not too sure that Warrior loses anything at the moment, but after 1.22b, it may be a trade-off between damage and tanking ability.

Archer and Bard. Well, Archer is straight DPS while Bard is more support. I'd assume that while doing your songs, you won't be attacking or using weaponskills, thus lowering your DPS in order to support your party.

Conjurer and White Mage. Conjurer is able to be a very good magic-using DD, while White Mage takes away abilities to augment that damage for better healing abilities.

Thaumaturge and Black Mage. See Lancer above.

Gladiator and Paladin. At the moment, is seems Paladin offers nothing to make it truly superior to Gladiator in any way, but after 1.22b it seems that it will also be a trade-off for DD capabilities or tanking.

To help with my point of a good use of classes and jobs, let's look at the Ifrit fight. There are multiple strategies for it, but I'll use the most generally accepted one. 1 WAR, 2 WHMS, 5 THMs/4THMs, 1 LNC. Why THM and LNC? They can take hits better, with the right abilities, so as to not cause a wipe while still dealing decent damage. I'd like to watch you do it with all jobs.

I have nothing for verification on this, so I also apologize if this is incorrect.
I believe it has been said by one of the devs that classes are here to stay. If you want jobs only, go back to FFXI. Complaining about things like this, while not adding anything that would be a reasonable fix, and would also not make the people working on this game go completely batty, is cluttering up our forums that are supposed to be used for the betterment of our communities, and the game.

---

Really? This is FFXIV? Here I thought I was playing something else. You realize the part of these forums is to give feedback right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KiraAmane

I've never soloed better on my class than my job. Here, I'll even break it down, and I'd like you to tell me how the job is worse than the class.

GLA versus PLD -- PLD sacrifices some HP, for higher VIT, more DMG skills, more heals, more mp. Winner, Job.

LNC versus DRG -- DRG has much more dmg, can self cure with dead spike. I can solo 7 rank 50-52 mobs on my DRG. I can't even come close on my LNC. Winner, DRG.

ARC versus BRD -- ARC and BRD DMG is similar. The songs however favor the BRD. You can raise on BRD and heal on BRD. Winner, BRD.

CNJ versus WHM -- Regen on WHM. Enough said. Winner, job.

THM versus BLM is pretty close. THM is very useful at times, but loses out on overall dmg to BLM slightly. We've tried it a lot. Same stats etc. I'd say this is even.

PGL versus MNK -- You can self heal on PGL, but your MNK is a MONSTER on dps. If you aren't evading and stunning enough its not that PGL is better or useful as a solo class, you just aren't playing MNK properly. Pacification, kicks, more dmg overall on MNK. Winner, JOB.

Seriously, I don't see any argument for saying Classes can Solo better than Jobs. Not trying to be a dick or start an argument, but I'd like to know when a class >> job. Please don't say lolraises. If you are having to raise in parties, your healers or your tank is messing up. Simple.

---

^^^This

If you are having a hard time soloing on a job then you are doing it wrong. The only things I can see for swapping is maybe BLM and that's only for more survivability. ARC though can do a ton more damage than BRD just by having access to LNC abilities so for that one it just depends on the role you want to play so I can certainly see the new bow and leather armor being worthwhile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I might take an arc and one bard, to maximize the arc's single target dps and retain party support from the bard..

---

why would you do that when a second bard buff will have a greater impact on the whole party's performance than 1 arcs invigorate or keen flurry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krausus

ARC though can do a ton more damage than BRD just by having access to LNC abilities

---

a single brd will out damage a single archer through his dps alone, as i said earlier paon of war lets you spam the hell out of your 10 sec skills while waiting on combo timers. 1 blood for blood in 60 seconds cant match 3 or 4 extra gloom arrows or heavy shots from paons tp boost in the same time span. and rain of death is also awesome damage which you can spam quite easily as its quite easy to sit on 3000 tp even spamming the hell out of every skill you have
and if the bards in a party at the same time as being able to do more damage than an arc he will boost the dps of the entire party with his songs.

if for example you were to say a brd song increases a dds dps by 5% and you have 5 dds in the party then a brd brings 125% of an archers dps to the party. if a second brd brings another song and that also a 5% boost on a dds dps. then those 2 brds are bringing 50% more dps to the party than 2 arcs. or 25% more dps than 1 brd and 1 arc.