FFXIV needs an update

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

And I ain't talking about content. I'm talkin' about an update to its engine, servers, and an entire overhaul of its basic combat and raid design.
So let's say a major overhaul like that is in the works. BUT, the project is massive and will require an entire expansion's worth of waiting (2 years) for it to be completed.
Now think of a problem you've had with the game. Be it housing, additional sliders, no loading zones, interchangable music and so and so forth. All those problems will be fixed, but will require 2 years of waiting.
Would you wait for it?

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Nope. At that point I'd rather they keep the current team pumping out content, and if they're going to build a new engine and game system, do it with a fresh IP and a wholly different team.

Why do you defend comapny?

As customer it is on them to improve product.
People like you is what stops them to push forward many of you are okay with status quo while meanwhile me cant unsee like there is 0 antialliasing which would be biggest noticeable graphical upgrade they could do.

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

I've seen the truth.
The ugly, beautiful truth.
Do whatever you want, for I have seen all.

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Clearly not, for the simple, absolute truth is this:

FF14 will not receive an engine update for an extremely long time, if ever. When the game is at the height of its popularity and raking in the giant swathes of $$$, the CEOs would be literally insane to let Yoshi-P put the game into maintenance mode for a year or two to re-write the engine and then spend intense amounts of time QAing every piece of content from ARR to EW to make sure everything is compatible with the new engine. It would be financial suicide to grind the immense hype of the game currently surrounding it to a screeching halt.

FF14 is inside a catch 22. The only way FF14 is ever going to be put into maintenance mode for an engine re-write is when the game's popularity fizzles out an the playerbase majorly dwindles, but by that point, they won't be doing an engine re-write because they'll be working on the next FF MMO.

That's the simple truth.

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Originally Posted by Kemiko

While there's definitely a lot of QoL features I want that I know the development team has a lot of hurdles to try to implement in no way would I want the game to stop its service in order to add them in. I am willing to let resources from other content to suffer while they add them in, however.

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Yeah, no.

It took them several expansions to do basic re-works of ARR. It's been an entire expansion cycle and they haven't fixed the multitude of issues surrounding Viera & Hrothgar. You realize just how tight their deadlines are right? They barely get any time to do extra work they want. If they were going to implement a brand new engine without bringing the game down into maintenance mode, they'd have it done by 10.0+ at the earliest with the amount of free time they have.

Also as a point-out: They had to take down the game for 1-1.5 years for a single expansion of ARR, which ditched basically all content from its predecessor outside of items & characters. If they were to ever do it again, they would have to add on Compatibility with literally every system, instance, combat, etc they've added since the beginning of ARR into the engine update, which only grows as they release more expansions, exponentially increasing the amount of work an engine re-write would demand.

TLDR, it's not realistic or feasible to re-write FF14's engine at this late stage of the game. If FF14 ever reaches the point where they could afford to dedicate the time due to hit in profit the game generates being so small, they'll already be R&Ding the next FF MMO, rendering a FF14 engine rewrite obsolete.

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Originally Posted by Holystyle

Why do you defend comapny?

As customer it is on them to improve product.
People like you is what stops them to push forward many of you are okay with status quo while meanwhile me cant unsee like there is 0 antialliasing which would be biggest noticeable graphical upgrade they could do.

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There's a difference between asking for ideas that fall within realistic dev op goals and wishing upon a star. Too many people do the latter due to having no experience in professional game development environments.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

There's a difference between asking for ideas that fall within realistic dev op goals and wishing upon a star. Too many people do the latter due to having no experience in professional game development environments.

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Counter point I think too many people play accountants and max scope developers for companies as well. We don't know the strengths and weaknesses or budget, people, general resources, nor the future potentials (present cases are different than future), we're relatively uninformed, even those who have more experience in the field.

Not to disagree that some things are relatively impractical, but that both impractical things have and can be done (they're just... impractical lol), and that it is in some ways a two way street of people knowing too little or acting too much.

SE of course is going to do what SE is going to do, if we want something that is impossible it doesn't matter how much one wants... Not going to happen cause it can't. If SE can, even though other players says it can't be done for whatever reason (happens quite often), then they will.

All to say we know very little, even those who know more than usual, and it's more or less about wants or perhaps sharing the likelihood of those wants, but yet still the helpfulness of someone asking of the impossible is about equal to someone who acts as if they're Yoshida themselves. Maybe the former is more helpful because at least then SE knows about desires for other content.

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Originally Posted by Miemi

Why would I play all zoomed-in in the first place. Why would I care if a texture looks bad while I'm all zoomed in?

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There are many jarring cutscenes where there is a close up of him. It looks straight out of a ps1 game. There are various other asset and textures that are of very low quality. The community has been wanting a high res texture pack for a while, another change that would help some and not require a full engine update. However, in the coming years if this game is to continue in the future, a larger graphical update would be needed.

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Originally Posted by Miemi

Let's shut down the game for a couple of years so I can have more tail options for my catgirl waifu.

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No one implied the game should be shut down while the updates take place. It wouldn't need to be anyway. So yes, I will patiently wait for the game to be updated (if it ever will be) while I am still playing it.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

There's a difference between asking for ideas that fall within realistic dev op goals and wishing upon a star. Too many people do the latter due to having no experience in professional game development environments.

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I wish all companies could run like people allow SE. They do some work but if anything comes up they get a pass because it would just be more work. No company ever hires more workers or subcontracts to complete other goals outside of the main running of the business. It isn't like people aren't discussing issues that are closing in on a decade now.


At this point to expect anything more out of the game is wishful thinking on anyone's part. Coming here and saying it is bad is fine just don't expect anything more then we get, and maybe even a little less then what we had in the past.

So many people these days are self-proclaimed experts in game design.

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Originally Posted by Holystyle

Why do you defend comapny?

As customer it is on them to improve product.
People like you is what stops them to push forward many of you are okay with status quo while meanwhile me cant unsee like there is 0 antialliasing which would be biggest noticeable graphical upgrade they could do.

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Because I actually already like the product - and while updates to the graphics or small QoL-additions (like more inventory space, Viera hats/hairstyles or egi-glamour - to me those are all small QoL-additions, I ackonwledge that someone else might feel differently about some of them) would be nice, for me they dont warrant what OP is suggesting: No new actual content or maybe even access to the game for two years.

I like the game the way it is, believe it or not. Specially the graphics look absolutly fine to me (maybe because I also tend to play a lot of older games aswell). The trade off that would be needed simply isnt worth it to me.

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Originally Posted by Velnora

It's actually 570. And all of those inventory slots don't do a whole lot of good when the sheer amount of crafting materials takes up space.

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Ah, there is the center of the problem: omni-crafters are inconvenienced because there are only 570 inventory slots to place crafting materials. At a guess, this would be those who also play the Market Board and complain when prices drop due to non-entrepreneurs going for the quick sale.

To be fair, as one is leveling crafting jobs, there is little reason to maintain a vast inventory of crafting materials, certainly not more than the 350 retainer slots one gets for free can handle. Personally, I have eight retainers and most of those have crafting materials that I haven't touched in anywhere from two to six years. My glamour dresser is maxed out. Two of those eight retainers have kept leveling gear (no longer needed, as every job except two tanks have hit max level).

I am not a crafter who makes items to sell on the Market Board. I have alts with two retainers. Those alts have no inventory pressure, since I've gotten much better at refusing to horde everything and anything.

I love how everyone rushes to the white knight accusation if anyone points out basic logic. Like if we dont force the big evil corporation to make our dreams reality we are all doomed.

Calm down. This ain’t racoon city and SE aint umbrella.

No one is ever going to be fully happy. Yes there are some valid criticisms of XIV and they should be heard, there are some nice wishlist changes, some are pipedreams and even the posters know it they just need to acknowledge it.

Fact is you dont need to know game development or the budget situation or anything to offer ideas or criticisms the dev team is actually pretty transparent with what they can and can do and what limits them.

Needless to say they have never complained about the game engine or server structure.

They’ve acknowledged one. ONE. Flaw that hinders them. The spaghetti code the game is built on from the initial rebuild of 1.x..

As for graphics, during an interview in a lead up to shadowbringers Yoshi-P expressly said they could but they do not want to as it would prohibit a significant portion of their PC player base who play on outdated equipment.

idk if it needs an update to combat and raid design, those are very core aspects of the basic experience of playing.

But it is in DIRE need of an engine overhaul.

Character customization, glamour sets, hairstyles, inventory management, most meaningful content being instanced, extremely pixelated textures, these are all pretty major things for a lot of players.

I strongly believe the developers are very skilled, creative, and passionate but their engine holds them back.

SE is more likely to make a new MMO entry than overhaul this one given how long this entry has been going. More so considering they had entries that were not MMO's start development and have it's engine built for 1 platform then release on another platform or the next gen of consoles without any real update to the engine causing gameplay issues with the title. If they keep the same number gap they did between FFXI and FFXIV then maybe the next MMO will be FFXVII. However that may be a bit off since they're working on FFXVI now and so far I think have only given us 1 teaser for it so far.

Why trying to force a massive engine update that would take years when you can continuously do some smaller refactoring, one piece at a time, while still working on actual content?
I don't get the idea of changing the combat system. They should rather make a new game instead of wasting resource adjusting all the existing content. People saw pso2ng and thought xiv should do the same. But pso2ng is actually a different game, so it is just like asking for FF17 really...

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

Graphics are literally a small part of the experience.

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The main reason i couldn't take in the character of Hien was the ugly textures of his clothes. It took me away from the narrative immersion at a mere glance - And often does in parts when the lowres textures become too evident or the shading/lightning of the game doesn't work (blocky shadows on instanced content for example)
To say graphics are a small part of any VIDEOgame is beyond me. It is literally the main receptive sense a VIDEOgame both estimulates and uses to convey most of their information - All related to fluidity, quality and design of the images being presented.

Just as a bad take on graphics can lead you to think that good graphics = high res textures/photorealism or RTX/Post-processing. An undervalue of graphics lead you to ruin precious developing time of excellent art assets and ultimately ruin a presentation, a visual experience for many.

Graphics DO Matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyjyWUrHsFc

"They say graphics are unimportant, but every game i've played has had them."

If it's time for an overhaul, its time for a new game. (and leave the existing one as is)

Bring on FFXVII Online!

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Uh, what in particular about the combat and raid design?
I think they're both incredible...

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Lazy die and retry
with lot of particle effects to hide the shallowness

That being said, it's not related to engine/server, and they could change it in the current game if they wanted. But this kind of change may be even bigger than server/engine, because it implies for all the player base to learn new things. They've been nurtured by FFXIV for years. Maybe even the devs themselves have forgotten how to do anything different, forgotten the potential of games.

I play on a 55-inch TV. I can clearly see all the graphical shortcuts. I do not particularly care. Super-pretty graphics are like icing on a cake; it's nice if it's pretty, but the cake itself is the main event.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Inventory is a perfect example, we get all these strange workarounds like chocobo saddlebag instead of just more inventory space.. apparently because it's not all that simple.

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They're literally removing belts from the game as a solution to giving us more inventory slots. This is how silly things have gotten.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

They're literally removing belts from the game as a solution to giving us more inventory slots. This is how silly things have gotten.

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xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

They're literally removing belts from the game as a solution to giving us more inventory slots. This is how silly things have gotten.

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You make it sound like this is a bad thing. Honestly belts have needed to go for a long while. They are the only piece of gear that has no glamour purpose, really don't add much stat wise, and have honestly done nothing but needlessly clog up loot tables since at least HW. I am pretty sure we can all easily recall those times where nothing but belts dropped in an instance. So them realizing if they do away with a useless gear slot they can then give us more inventory isn't a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Bearded

FFXIV has already had a massive redesign from the original content - that took about a year during which the game was shutdown.

FFXIV does not need to change to be like anything else thanks - its doing fine as it is.

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Uh except it isn’t. Literally the most basic of things people ask for the devs can’t deliver on because of engine limitations. Where have you been?

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Uh, what in particular about the combat and raid design?
I think they're both incredible...

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There’s a reason many people have expressed annoyance at this expansions raid tier. Not to mention raid design just…being the same over the years and not really changing. Players begging the devs to change healers and either have raids require actual healing or give healers a dps rotation, not continuing to simplify the jobs for the extreme casual crowd etc.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

They’ve acknowledged one. ONE. Flaw that hinders them. The spaghetti code the game is built on from the initial rebuild of 1.x..

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There is a second flaw they've acknowledged, and that's a lack of available experienced Japanese game programmers (or programmers that speak Japanese passably enough to be hired full time. Those guys are worth their weight in gold, and the only one I know of works for ICE at Naughty Dog - not the US agency, the graphics development division for Sony.) SE doesn't like to outsource because every time they try it, it blow up in their faces and they end up bringing it back in house half the time anyway.

Instead what they've had to do is hire people slowly for the XIV team and train them up, and it could be a full expansion cycle before their new people are experienced enough to strike out on their own projects. Brooks Law is alive and well in 2021: Hiring additional programming staff for an already late project will only serve to make the project even later.

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Originally Posted by OranKells

I absolutely love these wish lists from people who are clearly not engineers or software developers.

I have an idea. Let's just make the whole game better.

No I'm not going to elaborate just make everything better. better graphics more inventory less loading times faster internet. Yeah also Make the whole internet faster too.


What? dev work? technical limitations??? Minimum system requirements for older PCs?
Budget??? Manpower?
Deliberate design choices??
Screw all that just make it better.

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Especially the vagueness. "I'm not going to to give you any specific areas to look into tweaking, just fix it now!"

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Originally Posted by Catwho

There is a second flaw they've acknowledged, and that's a lack of available experienced Japanese game programmers (or programmers that speak Japanese passably enough to be hired full time. Those guys are worth their weight in gold, and the only one I know of works for ICE at Naughty Dog - not the US agency, the graphics development division for Sony.) SE doesn't like to outsource because every time they try it, it blow up in their faces and they end up bringing it back in house half the time anyway.

Instead what they've had to do is hire people slowly for the XIV team and train them up, and it could be a full expansion cycle before their new people are experienced enough to strike out on their own projects. Brooks Law is alive and well in 2021: Hiring additional programming staff for an already late project will only serve to make the project even later.

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You are right, i did forget about that. Yes that is a second thing.. but despite what the people on this thread seem to claim, not once have they ever said anything about the game’s engine being lacking in any way shape or form. So that false narrative just needs to die.

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

belts have needed to go for a long while. They are the only piece of gear that has no glamour purpose, really don't add much stat wise, and have honestly done nothing but needlessly clog up loot tables since at least HW. I am pretty sure we can all easily recall those times where nothing but belts dropped in an instance. So them realizing if they do away with a useless gear slot they can then give us more inventory isn't a bad thing.

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I agree 100%, but those are all reasons why they probably didn't need to exist for the past 11 years, not the reason they're getting removed in Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

SE doesn't like to outsource because every time they try it, it blow up in their faces and they end up bringing it back in house half the time anyway.

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*cough* FFVII remake *cough*

People really have no clue about game development in here.
For an engine update as in switching engine they need to remake the game completely from scratch. Yes, all the content from 2.0 has to be completely remade, over 8 years.
You cannot just port it over and things work. That seems a huge point of unreal 4 to unreal 5.
Then we also have the issue that working with a new engine and just relearning that.
Needless to say, you only do this in very rare cases where you have no other option.

Now there is another thing called engine upgrading which is basically bolting things onto it. Yes you will be still limited but you would be surprised how much you can add.
A perfect example here is World of Warcraft which runs on a heavily modified warcraft 3 engine. This comes with limitations of course (like the forever 16 slot backpack) but they added a lot of things to it, including DirectX12 and Raytracing.

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Originally Posted by Assirra

People really have no clue about game development in here.
For an engine update as in switching engine they need to remake the game completely from scratch. Yes, all the content from 2.0 has to be completely remade, over 8 years.
You cannot just port it over and things work. That seems a huge point of unreal 4 to unreal 5.
Then we also have the issue that working with a new engine and just relearning that.
Needless to say, you only do this in very rare cases where you have no other option.

Now there is another thing called engine upgrading which is basically bolting things onto it. Yes you will be still limited but you would be surprised how much you can add.
A perfect example here is World of Warcraft which runs on a heavily modified warcraft 3 engine. This comes with limitations of course (like the forever 16 slot backpack) but they added a lot of things to it, including DirectX12 and Raytracing.

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In before you get called out for white knighting and just being defensive about the game/company/YoshiP/Japan/birds in the sky/etc.

Anyway, yeah, and as we've seen the old code they're working with isn't anywhere near as expandable as the code in WoW is. They're doing what they can with what they have in terms of time, money and resources. Simply stating facts isn't being defensive or making excuses, it's just stating the facts. Unless you really believe that YoshiP and the team have just been lying to our faces all of the time. In which case, why are you even still playing the game if you really believe the developer will just lie to your face while making the terrible game that some people seem to think FF14 is?

There's nothing wrong with making requests, even big ones. Sometimes enough people saying they want something is what tips the developers in a specific direction on how they will allocate their resources. But sometimes things really are just either impossible or are too resource intensive for the team to consider them worthwhile. Remember, they are the ones who actually have the analytics on what in the game actually gets done and used. Just because there's a few loud people on the forums screaming about something for years doesn't mean the developers see the value in making that change.

Now, as for actual design issues like class design, encounter design, etc. Consider for a moment that, and I know it's hard, maybe the developers are not inept or deaf to the cries of the forum dwellers. Maybe they, I dunno, just prefer the game they're already making and have been making for years?

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

In before you get called out for white knighting and just being defensive about the game/company/YoshiP/Japan/birds in the sky/etc.

Anyway, yeah, and as we've seen the old code they're working with isn't anywhere near as expandable as the code in WoW is. They're doing what they can with what they have in terms of time, money and resources. Simply stating facts isn't being defensive or making excuses, it's just stating the facts. Unless you really believe that YoshiP and the team have just been lying to our faces all of the time. In which case, why are you even still playing the game if you really believe the developer will just lie to your face while making the terrible game that some people seem to think FF14 is?

There's nothing wrong with making requests, even big ones. Sometimes enough people saying they want something is what tips the developers in a specific direction on how they will allocate their resources. But sometimes things really are just either impossible or are too resource intensive for the team to consider them worthwhile. Remember, they are the ones who actually have the analytics on what in the game actually gets done and used. Just because there's a few loud people on the forums screaming about something for years doesn't mean the developers see the value in making that change.

Now, as for actual design issues like class design, encounter design, etc. Consider for a moment that, and I know it's hard, maybe the developers are not inept or deaf to the cries of the forum dwellers. Maybe they, I dunno, just prefer the game they're already making and have been making for years?

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*Points to me making reasonable points about most peoples inventory issues being an issue of poor inventory management, and multiple people accusing me of white knighting and implying i had a reason to defend SE's "poor choices"*

Anyways, all of what you said is agreeable.

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

And I ain't talking about content. I'm talkin' about an update to its engine, servers, and an entire overhaul of its basic combat and raid design.

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To redo a games engine, the entire game needs to be remade. What you are asking for is a new FF game.
The servers are being worked on already.
What's wrong with the combat?
What's wrong with the raid design? I find it more fun than other games raids.

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

BUT, the project is massive and will require an entire expansion's worth of waiting (2 years) for it to be completed.

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Two years from scratch for a new game of this scale is being really optimistic.

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

Now think of a problem you've had with the game. Be it housing, additional sliders, no loading zones, interchangable music and so and so forth. All those problems will be fixed, but will require 2 years of waiting.
Would you wait for it?

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Some people waited 16 years for some of those features and they never came in other games. And in all honesty I don't have a problem with any of those things. ;)

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Originally Posted by Miemi

Why would I play all zoomed-in in the first place. Why would I care if a texture looks bad while I'm all zoomed in?

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It was just an example and i didn't say all zoomed in, I said zoom in - there is a difference. It's even visible on cutscenes with them and I believe there was on a store item too for Hien or something like that.

Regardless I don't think it should be excused.

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Originally Posted by TroySoFab

There are many jarring cutscenes where there is a close up of him. It looks straight out of a ps1 game. There are various other asset and textures that are of very low quality. The community has been wanting a high res texture pack for a while, another change that would help some and not require a full engine update. However, in the coming years if this game is to continue in the future, a larger graphical update would be needed.

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Pretty much this.

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Originally Posted by tymora

If it's time for an overhaul, its time for a new game. (and leave the existing one as is)

Bring on FFXVII Online!

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I wonder if they even make a new MMORPG though. I mean FF11 is still kicking around and is no where in sight to be shut down, it's soon 20 years old. This game is over 10 years. It would make more sense to retain FF14 popularity and playerbase and basically give us a reworked engine.

But who knows, maybe it is more ROI to make a brand new MMORPG from the scratch.

Usually they update the combat system every expansion, so you're in luck. Whether that's a good or bad thing is, well. Usually it's good, just Shadowbringers was more of ARR 2.0 and still not sure whether it is needed or not. It brought a lot of players in, so I guess it was good for the company at the very least.

As for whether I'd wait for the stuff, likely not a second time. As bad as the game needs it, it is better they work on it slowly every expansion instead of try to do it all at once when frankly, it isn't necessary. If people really want the hd remake, there is always just getting a PC (unless you're in California, for some reason)

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Originally Posted by Holystyle

Why do you defend comapny?

As customer it is on them to improve product.
People like you is what stops them to push forward many of you are okay with status quo while meanwhile me cant unsee like there is 0 antialliasing which would be biggest noticeable graphical upgrade they could do.

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Because some people have common sense and realise that behind product there are real living beings, not robots with magic powers. People these days love to cry how bad crunch culture in IT and game industry is, but as soon as it's about the game they play they turn into "What do you mean you can't do it right now? I WANT IT!!1!" kids.

People do ask for improvements (even in this thread alone several people voiced the wish to have better textures, which is probably the main thing the game currently needs, if there's any graphical update to do), they just try to stay reasonable in what they ask for, for the most part.

You think i am one of them xD.
And not my problem such companies and lack of employees laws lead to crunches.
Nope for me it is i give you money get me thing not more or less .

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Originally Posted by Holystyle

You think i am one of them xD.
And not my problem such companies and lack of employees laws lead to crunches.
Nope for me it is i give you money get me thing not more or less .

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And you're getting exactly what you pay for - access to the games servers and the game itself. Not more, not less.

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Originally Posted by Holystyle

You think i am one of them xD.
And not my problem such companies and lack of employees laws lead to crunches.
Nope for me it is i give you money get me thing not more or less .

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And that is exactly what you get so guess we are finished now.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

There’s a reason many people have expressed annoyance at this expansions raid tier. Not to mention raid design just…being the same over the years and not really changing. Players begging the devs to change healers and either have raids require actual healing or give healers a dps rotation, not continuing to simplify the jobs for the extreme casual crowd etc.

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This is a casual game, WoW raiding is that way ---}

[QUOTE=Sotaris;5645603]It was just an example and i didn't say all zoomed in, I said zoom in - there is a difference. It's even visible on cutscenes with them and I believe there was on a store item too for Hien or something like that.

Regardless I don't think it should be excused.

It's not being excused. It's just not a big deal. At. All. We dont need to see every pore on Y'shtola's forehead or every stitch in their clothes. That's a complete waste of time & resources.

Op you will be happy to read that yes their will be an engine up date. It will be most likely in the next expansion after Endwalker. The elephant in the room is the difference between dungeons and maps graphically.(i am talking vanilla settings) Especially HW and SB. However you can make the land areas look amazing if you google "getting the best out of FFxiv." And the wait for the engine will vanish after that.

For me, FFXIV doesn't need an update. What we need is a FFXVII online game, where you can have more inventory space, a better housing system and a graphic overhaul.

Not now, but Endwalkers should be the last expansion and FFXIV should keep rolling, just like XI does, for those who want to keep playing it (or want to play both games, who knows).