SE: Please tone it down a hair

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Originally Posted by Majidah

THAT WAS ME! MWAHAHAHAA http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...n-XIV-s-quests give me a kiss!

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LMAO! Okay well I agree then! lol. ^_^ *kisses*

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Amazingly enough its like this. The NPCs in XIV talk too much without saying much.
Just like cheerleaders!

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1...2...3...4 Everyone is Stupid, ya Your stupid.. ya ya your Stupid... ( thats what I feel like I'm getting when you or other people like Rokien or Bobbygunz talk!) Yay us were stupid! *Cheers for the team in red and black!* Goooooo Dalamud Crusaders! :D.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

1...2...3...4 Everyone is Stupid, ya Your stupid.. ya ya your Stupid... ( thats what I feel like I'm getting when you or other people like Rokien or Bobbygunz talk!) Yay us were stupid! *Cheers for the team in red and black!* Goooooo Dalamud Crusaders! :D.

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Well, then you are clearly misreading what I'm typing. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Cendres

LMAO! Okay well I agree then! lol. ^_^ *kisses*

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:o

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Well, then you are clearly misreading what I'm typing. :rolleyes:





:o

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Isn't that how it always is with the forums a bunch of "Misunderstanding"? I FEEL LIKE EVERYTHING IS A LIE! ( except for DEV comments.. because they are official.. :P)

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

In FFXI, each race had a distinct way of speaking that made them stand out immediately. People from San d'Oria spoke in an overall consistent way. Mithra spoke in a consistent manner (the "rrrrrrr"'s in their speech being a good example, among several). Tarus tended to be more alliterative or rhyming in their speech. Galka tended to be generally rather harsh and blunt in their speech... and so forth.

I don't see that as much in XIV. It seems more arbitrary. I see NPCs of all races speaking like you'd expect a Taru to. I see Lalafell speaking in a manner of ways. It just makes it difficult to establish any kind of collective personality or behavior for any one of the races, at least for me.

That said, what the hell is going on in your signature pic, fusional? I mean, I can tell it's a spoof on something, but is that from some kind of DJ concert or something?

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well, i think the idea in ffxi was that all (or most) of race X came from city/region Y, so no matter where you encountered them their speech patterns were the same, as they were basically just traveling away from home. it was more consistent, but also a bit homogenized. i think it was just their way of reinforcing the idea of nationalism, since the 3 nations did compete for top honors.

in ffxiv it seems they're taking a more 'realistic' approach, where people from city/region Y predominantly speak in the manner appropriated to that place, regardless of race. all the races are spread out everywhere and nationalism can still be found, but it has more to do with your grand company than it does with race origins. ul'dah NPCs tend to be more frank and streetwise, gridanians more eloquent and thoughtful, and limsans talk like pirates- regardless of race. i think this speaks more to how a person who has been in a region for a long enough time will start to pick up the dialect, even if they (or their ancestors) originated from elsewhere.

just my 2 cents. but either way, i'm fine with it. it doesn't even bother me that louisoix talks so damned much. it just sucks that you have to suffer through the same long-winded speech every. single. time. you complete one of the repeatable primal quests. okay, first time is fine. i'm happy to read. but when i'm repeating the quest, don't make me mash enter. it just makes you care less about the dialogue, and that's counterproductive.

as far as my sig, lol. it's making fun of Skrillex. ;)

I find the actual language used to be amazingly well crafted most of the time and I've praised the localization work several times. Sometimes there is just too damn much text, though. Louisoix, the primal quest NPC, just never shuts up.

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I'm going to go ahead and link everyone to this thread with 102 likes.

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When pondered against the portion of people who purportedly play, and privately purpose to pass up the possibility of purveying their ponderous posings amidst a protruding pyramid of perpetually put-out prattling posters...

That number is not very big.

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I applaud your writers and their use of every single page of the Infinity Flux Time Extensive Thesaurus of large words and fancy idioms but I'm begging you.

Please stop.

Pretty much every encounter with the Empire is a pretty good example of over doing it. Cloud an NPC's words in mystery and perhaps some foreshadowing riddles but not a 5 pages soliloquies about the nothingness of still could be happenings of what was once never there. I fancy myself an intelligent creature but trying to decipher every single sentence because it is so overladen with foreign Yoda speak is bringing down my self worth as a thinking man with every syllable.

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There is nothing at all difficult about the reading level of XIV. Perhaps you need to bring your reading level up, rather than have the writing fine-tuned to something more appropriate for grade schoolers.

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People, take a look at FFT's rewrite. It uses old english but the dialogs are superv. Can you say the same about XIV? Hell no. There are no dialogs in XIV. Just monologs.

Can you picture a FFT character speak as much as a misc inn NPC in uldah? Get real.

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One's a single-player RPG with a character who is not only your avatar, but an established personality within the game's setting. Of course it's a dialog.

In XIV, much as in XI, your character is only your avatar, appearing in CS and communicating with gestures and expression, much like Link. Of course it's a monologue.

The two are so wildly dissimilar, I am forced to wonder why you see fit to comment on it at all.

I was just rewatching some cs's and noticed the following:

1. the complicated language

2. the script drifts off into speaking in negatives rather than in a direct/active fashion

3. the script is reptitious, the same point is repeated in a few different ways before moving on (see what i did there)

Sadly I've resorted to skipping dialogue almost all the time these days. I think it is in part due to what the OP has brought up.

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Originally Posted by Rau

Isolating a large portion of your userbase in the name of semantic complexity is a bad idea. We're playing a game, not analyzing The Divine Comedy.

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Just the idea of reading the Divine Comedy in english makes me die inside.

I think if we were in the groove long enough, the dialogue would sit better with us.

Since we're not reading a book heavy in the language, but playing a game where we may get snippets of dialogue here and there, between our own personal goals, chatting with other players, reading social networking and forums, and being at works. But if we were reading a 600 page book laden with the lingo, we would eventually get into it.

Lies! I recorded over 300 vocabulary words in the Black Chronicles I couldn't understand, looked up, and never saw them reused in the books and I don't think I could recognize them now. And you realize at some point, you're just gonna have to miss the details of some scenes as the story progresses if you want to enjoy the story.

It's hard to read when there's this pressure that you're holding up other players (and reading on the go usually doesn't work out).

"Uplander backwalks from den of horsebirds. Horsebird busydeal is wideheart and remembering. Ear-catch selfsounds of jinglyshine now. Now get the F outta my face."

I don't see a problem here, nobody forces you to read anything. Just spam enter key, and if that doesn't help press escape key twice and then select "Yes" to skip CS, works every time for me!~ Well thats at least my approach to this issue :D Thats what i do and recommend every lazy person who is not interested to read to do :D

I miss back in the 90s when RPGs came with warnings "The ability to read is required to properly enjoy this game".

Perhaps this game should come with it too. People always in a hurry and expect things to be as basic as possible.

I for one enjoy the multitude of dialects and "fancy talk" in this game, and I have no problem reading it.

I was wondering how long it would take for people to struggle with the diction choices in FFXIV. Frankly, it's an interesting decision on their part because it does ostracize people a bit. I've been studying for the GRE and many of the words I had never heard before appear in FFXIV on a regular basis. It's pretty neat, and I hope they continue their writing style because it's a niche that isn't common in the genre.

BTW, I have to look up FFXIV words sometimes, and then I add them to my GRE list.

If you want 5th grade reading level, you can always go play TERA.

When I talk about the game to others I talk about how the quest and NPC dialogue is really well done.

If I did have to pick one choice to scale back on...

When five or so high level difficulty words are interspersed with five Eorzean terminologies [mainly the distant lands or people that don't exist in the game] I can get really confused. I know I was reading an NPC's dialogue in Limsa, and they mentioned shipping partners and I got really lost because of all the different Eorzean terminology.

It's not about HOW it is written though it's about HOW MUCH. Make the difference.

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Originally Posted by Cendres

It's not about HOW it is written though it's about HOW MUCH. Make the difference.

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Yep. Difference is those who like and want to read versus those who dislike reading/can't actually read. Since even if its voice acted people won't sit through all of it unless it's full of action.

Gotta face facts, sometimes something just simply isn't for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Cendres

HOW MUCH.

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Have you ever read Shakespeare?

There are reasons Shakespeare remains one of the most popular and enjoyed play-writes in history. Oh yeah, and there's pages upon pages of the same difficult English. But yet, people continue to enjoy it. A surprise! Those people must enjoy reading and/or stories and/or dramatic performances. Much like what the dialogue is aimed at in this game. People who enjoy reading and/or stories and/or dramatic performances. If you as a player do not fit into having the amount of patience required to read, then you may simply skip the stories and do well not to complain.

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Originally Posted by fusional

well, i think the idea in ffxi was that all (or most) of race X came from city/region Y, so no matter where you encountered them their speech patterns were the same, as they were basically just traveling away from home. it was more consistent, but also a bit homogenized. i think it was just their way of reinforcing the idea of nationalism, since the 3 nations did compete for top honors.

in ffxiv it seems they're taking a more 'realistic' approach, where people from city/region Y predominantly speak in the manner appropriated to that place, regardless of race. all the races are spread out everywhere and nationalism can still be found, but it has more to do with your grand company than it does with race origins. ul'dah NPCs tend to be more frank and streetwise, gridanians more eloquent and thoughtful, and limsans talk like pirates- regardless of race. i think this speaks more to how a person who has been in a region for a long enough time will start to pick up the dialect, even if they (or their ancestors) originated from elsewhere.

just my 2 cents. but either way, i'm fine with it. it doesn't even bother me that louisoix talks so damned much. it just sucks that you have to suffer through the same long-winded speech every. single. time. you complete one of the repeatable primal quests. okay, first time is fine. i'm happy to read. but when i'm repeating the quest, don't make me mash enter. it just makes you care less about the dialogue, and that's counterproductive.

as far as my sig, lol. it's making fun of Skrillex. ;)

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Yeah I'd considered that angle as well. I still see a lot of inconsistency in it, though. I don't remember which they were as I've spoken to many, but I'll see NPCs in LL, for example, that seem to be from there, but yet talk like they're from Gridania. That's what I mean by consistency.

As for the Skrillex thing. Never heard of him before, so I had to look him up. He kinda looks like Corey Feldman.

Now I've heard everything.

Let's start whining about footsteps now.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yep. Difference is those who like and want to read versus those who dislike reading/can't actually read. Since even if its voice acted people won't sit through all of it unless it's full of action.

Gotta face facts, sometimes something just simply isn't for everyone.

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Nope not even close.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Have you ever read Shakespeare?

There are reasons Shakespeare remains one of the most popular and enjoyed play-writes in history. Oh yeah, and there's pages upon pages of the same difficult English. But yet, people continue to enjoy it. A surprise! Those people must enjoy reading and/or stories and/or dramatic performances. Much like what the dialogue is aimed at in this game. People who enjoy reading and/or stories and/or dramatic performances. If you as a player do not fit into having the amount of patience required to read, then you may simply skip the stories and do well not to complain.

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Shakespeare is interesting because every single sentence has a specific intent. I can't say the same for FFXIV, but I wish I could, maybe someday I will. In XIV right now you've got entirely useless sentences that could easily be condensed and still have the same effect. Talking just to talk is pointless, talking with meaning isn't.

BTW I read everything, I love stories, but even I can recognize there's more then a few times in XIV I want the NPC to get to the point already and quit boring me. If I was hanging on to every word I would not have this perception. Something about the writing can be improved. We are not talking about taking away anything but IMPROVING things.

Criticism of this nature is a good thing.

The writing is not difficult to understand, but at the same time it isn't incredibly well written either.

To debate that though, we need to separate the dialogue from the story.

The Underlying Story is amazing... but at times it's needlessly convoluted. Generally, a confusing story can aid in the misdirection the writer is trying to get across, and the more confusion present intensifies the "Aha!!" moment
In FFXIV, the shroud of mystery seems overdone. the writers definitely slow walk you to the point....
Everything up to the Level 46 quest would just be the opening scenes in an offline RPG....

I bet you're wondering why, in a thread about dialogue would I bring up the story

Because they go hand in hand. The dialogue is made to build on that mystery concept.
The 7th Umbral era poems and such are actually not bad. NPC's are just unusually verbose, in a Charles Dickens sort of way.
Dialogue for the sake of words... for the sake of time...

And much of it is preference. The dialogue fits the setting for the most part. I just personally DETEST pirate speak (And pirates in general). I've never seen one Pirates of the Caribbean in it's entirety, so of course I'm going to hate all Limsa dialogue.

And part of it is the lack of voice. The writers kind of failed to give each important NPC idiosyncrasies in their speech to bring out their particular personality, but thats not always easy through text only communication. A lot of movies don't do that either, but then the actor is able to take the dialogue and make it unique to that character.

Dialogue and story are such complex systems that one could talk about them ad infinitum, but I do think the job quest NPC dialogue has gotten MUCH better, and for that reason I look forward to NPC speech in the future

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Lol..the writing in this game is quite a few leaps above the forced 'epic' writing of games like Skyrim and Tera >.>

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I could go kick the shit out of a twelve year old and that doesn't make me a bad ass

Skyrim is famous for having ridiculously bad dialogue (See: Arrow to the knee)
If a game only aspires to have better dialogue than Elder Scrolls, then it will forever wallow in mediocrity. Why not aspire to be great!
I would be insulted if I wrote something and someone said "At least it's not SKyrim"
Why even compare it to a game... why can't we have dialogue on par with "No country for Old Men" or "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind"

I'm not here to read Shakespeare, I'm here to play a videogame >.>

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Originally Posted by Victor

I'm not here to read Shakespeare, I'm here to play a videogame >.>

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Then play the video game then.... not that hard :/

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Originally Posted by Rydin

And part of it is the lack of voice. The writers kind of failed to give each important NPC idiosyncrasies in their speech to bring out their particular personality, but thats not always easy through text only communication. A lot of movies don't do that either, but then the actor is able to take the dialogue and make it unique to that character.

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Yes that's the reason why Shanttoto from XI is well remembered and beloved, she's different and hilarious in her speech. Of which I never had a problem with XI's dialogue, there was a lot but it didn't feel like too much, while in XIV I sometimes try to speed read because lines are just not that interesting. And I don't like doing that.

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Originally Posted by Cendres

Yes that's the reason why Shanttoto from XI is well remembered and beloved, she's different and hilarious in her speech. Of which I never had a problem with XI's dialogue, there was a lot but it didn't feel like too much, while in XIV I sometimes try to speed read because lines are just not that interesting. And I don't like doing that.

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That's more of that Charles Dickens verbosity. It feels like many parts of the text were written to be voiced, in which case the flavor text gives the voice actor more opportunities to bring out the characters personality, however, without voice, it can start to drone on.

I don't read... any... of the text.

Not because I can't, but because I don't care. The variation of NPC speech ranges from upper class, to common, to pirate and... yeah that's it. None of the characters are likeable or memorable. I don't give a damn about that mithra Mary Sue singer/dancer character, for example, and I don't see why I should. Also, the voice acting is atrocious; the accents are clichéd beyond all belief.

I wish SE would make this world more quirky and unique rather than clawing at some overused, clichéd idea of medieval- and 'British'-ness.

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Originally Posted by Cendres

Nope not even close.

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It is close, how can something be 'too much' if it doesn't come down to wanting/not wanting to read?

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Originally Posted by Cendres

Shakespeare is interesting because every single sentence has a specific intent. I can't say the same for FFXIV, but I wish I could, maybe someday I will. In XIV right now you've got entirely useless sentences that could easily be condensed and still have the same effect. Talking just to talk is pointless, talking with meaning isn't.

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Originally Posted by Cendres

Yes that's the reason why Shanttoto from XI is well remembered and beloved, she's different and hilarious in her speech. Of which I never had a problem with XI's dialogue, there was a lot but it didn't feel like too much, while in XIV I sometimes try to speed read because lines are just not that interesting. And I don't like doing that.

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This and this.

Can I just point out that I deleted my character in Limsa Lominsa and remade him in Ul'dah purely because I could not stand the NPC speech there.

Those of you who play just to play and not actually enjoy or partake in the RPG elements (e.g., the story), continue to do so and skip everything and stop complaining. Derp.

Those of you who play to enjoy the story and RPG elements, continue to do so and again stop complaining. Derpderp.

Again, I have no problem reading it, I enjoy a good amount of the dialogue (especially Limsa considering I live in a similar area and half the people around here talk the exact same way), and most of the dialogue makes sense to me and again has meaning. People just have their nostalgia goggles on, sad because this game isn't something else (FFXI). It won't be. It never will be. Tough titty said the kitty.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It is close, how can something be 'too much' if it doesn't come down to wanting/not wanting to read?

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Since you seem to profess your love of reading, please do actually read my posts (while using reading comprehension) and then come back to me with a reply that's relevant.

You know what? I'll give the benefit of the doubt and answer your question point bank: there's no point in adding lines and lines of text that do not say anything. To keep your audience captivated every sentence should convey meaning and not just be there for the sake of taking up time and space.

If every sentence in XIV was really meaningful it would be fantastic, but that's not the case. I LOVE reading, I read a lot in real life and have no problem with it in a game, but I don't like dialogue that is semi and sometimes even mostly pointless. I know it can be better and riveting!

With NPCs that make you laugh or give you decent information or both even, with their own personalities.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Those of you who play just to play and not actually enjoy or partake in the RPG elements (e.g., the story), continue to do so and skip everything and stop complaining. Derp.

Those of you who play to enjoy the story and RPG elements, continue to do so and again stop complaining. Derpderp.

Again, I have no problem reading it, I enjoy a good amount of the dialogue (especially Limsa considering I live in a similar area and half the people around here talk the exact same way), and most of the dialogue makes sense to me and again has meaning. People just have their nostalgia goggles on, sad because this game isn't something else (FFXI). It won't be. It never will be. Tough titty said the kitty.

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I enjoy the RPG elements in games, I enjoyed them in FFXI, just not in this game when it comes to NPCs chatting away. And it's not merely about the amount of dialogue it's the amount of waffle in there that could be written more meaningfully. But hey each to their own.

On the contrary, the dialogue in this game is -incredibly excellent-.

Please do not 'tone it down' for illiterate mouthbreathers who will be spamming Enter through cutscenes one way or the other.

Please.

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

On the contrary, the dialogue in this game is -incredibly excellent-.

Please do not 'tone it down' for illiterate mouthbreathers who will be spamming Enter through cutscenes one way or the other.

Please.

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That was insightful... thank you...

Actually, I like the dialogue during cutscenes (i.e. the main story), but not from most random NPCs.

Also I really wish they'd stop making everyone sound so faux-Old-English.

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

On the contrary, the dialogue in this game is -incredibly excellent-.

Please do not 'tone it down' for illiterate mouthbreathers who will be spamming Enter through cutscenes one way or the other.

Please.

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It's rather ironic that someone who apparently deems themself of higher intellect can't make an argument without condescension or launching personal attacks against those they disagree with.

Your conceit is not justified, sir.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Those of you who play just to play and not actually enjoy or partake in the RPG elements (e.g., the story), continue to do so and skip everything and stop complaining. Derp.

Those of you who play to enjoy the story and RPG elements, continue to do so and again stop complaining. Derpderp.

Again, I have no problem reading it, I enjoy a good amount of the dialogue (especially Limsa considering I live in a similar area and half the people around here talk the exact same way), and most of the dialogue makes sense to me and again has meaning. People just have their nostalgia goggles on, sad because this game isn't something else (FFXI). It won't be. It never will be. Tough titty said the kitty.

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Hello unfamiliar person! That is to say someone whom I have never met previously! At least not before the moment that is now! Yes, you! *grabs you by the arm*
I adore writing posts for the forums that belong to final fantasy xiv. These forums are filled with many people. Oh joy, the people. I dislike most of them, and tolerate a couple of them. Not many I like. But still there's this special something that makes you come back. *tightens his grasp on you*
Coming back. Ah, this is when a person returns. Return, funny that you mention it, is also the name for the function you can trigger on your menu to warp back to your home point without the use of anima.
Is it not anima a funny thing? A lot of people are against it. A lot of people are against a lot of things.
The opposite of being against things is liking them. And do you know what I like? The sky. Its so blue. Blue like my pants. Let me tell you about these pants!
I got them from the merchant wards. Oh boy, back in my day there wasn't even a proper search system. Oh no no, we had to walk in, and check them retainer by retainer.
This one time I had an argument with a friend about retainers. He hated the system! But oh boy, did I think it was innovative. But then changes came and the old merchant wards changed, and improved actually! I was so surprised!
Although really, if you look at it now it seems that it is basically an auction house with a little bit more of hassle.
Lets hope they replace that. That and the city maps. Boy. These cities will not do come 2.0!
Don't you think everything looks way too new and pristine? And isn't it weird how I just stand here all day grabbing strangers in the street to tell them all this? I mean, I could get to the point without derailing myself... but you know what? I really like that show, how I met your mother? You know the one? And no one seems to mind how they tell their stories there. So thought I'd might as well take their example! Haha oh yes, I do enjoy a good sitcom every now and then. House M.D. isn't a sitcom but its also good. Well, it was. Until cuddy left the show. Now it seems it just isn't going anywhere.
Anyhow! Kill five goats so I can prove a point to the people at the final fantasy XIV forums.
>>300 exp reward. 2,000 gil. 1x blue pants.

=

Every NPC in the streets of FFXIV.

But if they write it in old english BEWARE! Because a lot of arrogant people, who think that anyone who is actually able to put essence over form is illiterate, will love it.

^^^

i have died.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

=NPC BARF

Every NPC in the streets of FFXIV.

But if they write it in old english BEWARE! Because a lot of arrogant people, who think that anyone who is actually able to put essence over form is illiterate, will love it.

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That is EXACTLY what it is. You can read it, it's legible, but it's so pointless, run-on, and down right silly that your brain shuts off. It's not the form, it's the NPC-barf of text splattered all over your log to the point where, in the case of animated scenes, you can't even get through it all before the scene changes and you have to scroll up to read what you missed in hopes of finding a point in there somewhere!