Job overhaul expectations for Endwalker

What I want to see:

Classes

BRD overhaul
DRK overhaul
MNK overhaul/revisited
SMN trim??? idk what this class needs tbh
MCH revisited

As far as roles go, Healer and Tank need to be looked at. Badly

What I am near 100% sure is going to happen:

DRK/BRD/MNK little to no changes that addresses player issues
AST removal of Noct sect and becomes a WHM clone
SCH left in the dust as SGE takes it place
WHM ...who again?

SGE will either be one of two things:

1. It'll either have everything healers want (cause new job) making everyone play it because it great while also hating every aspect of it because to get what we finally wanted we had to destroy 3 jobs (on top of having people ignore the wishes of WHM/AST/SCH for their jobs to be better cause "just play SGE")

2. It isn't GNB or DNC, it's a healer, so it gets to suffer the same treatment (or worse!) and be a 2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 occasional heals spammer

SMN seems to be a safe bet to be getting a major overhaul.
AST is going to get butchered (again) to become an exclusively reactive healer.
I'm betting PLD will have its utility cut back because XIV team seems to hate letting jobs have situational actions or feel too different to others in the same role.
DRG and BLM will be simplified because heaven forbid you have a DPS job that has a higher skill ceiling than average to maintain good damage.

What I want doesn't matter. Because I like situational utility actions, I liked when healers had stuff like protect and stoneskin, I liked when enmity management was a thing all roles had to work together for, and I liked things like cleric stance. I wanted complexity and active party synergy, not even more simplification and repetition to the flow of actions. I wanted the so promised system that rewards effort and innovation. The "effort" required keeps getting toned down every expansion. And the "innovation" hasn't been seen in over 7 years.
So naturally, I'm going against the tide here. That's the opposite of what they want to do with the game's combat.

I hope every job gets more "complicated" or flexibles because some rotations at 80 are extremely boring.

Of course Monk, literally unplayable.

Warrior is going to get another fell cleave. :p

What I would like to see, is shield healers get specific shield types or separate shields so that when SCH and Sage or SCH+SCH are in a party they aren't overwriting each other.
I feel it would be nice so that in groups folks didnt have to worry if they were paired with another shield healer. Pure healers dont have to worry about this.. so it seems only fair.

Otherwise my only other worry is the stuff folks have been spewing about SE gutting SMN pets. Which I feel is unlikely but you never know.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

I loved this spell. If they do bring it back I would guess they would call it something else and give it a glowy effect like holy. They changed all our spells from stone/air to glowy spells. Unless Sage takes the glowy light spells and WHM gets back the nature theme I don’t see the exact spell coming back. I personally like the nature theme and hope they do though.

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They could just give it back at lvl52 and upgrade it to Dia III at the 70's Range. At the very least it should share its effect with the single target aero like Thunder having one single dot is a joke as its worthless on group pulls.

Not a complete overhaul but I would like the AOE rotation of RDM reworked or added to. It doesn’t feel very satisfying as it is now, especially compared to the huge flourish of scorch as the finisher of the single target melee combo.

Besides Astro for converting to Regen healer, probably Summoner..again.

well it seems like summoner is getting a major rework, I expect to see some significant changes to warrior as well as it's current considered the worst of the tanks. Astrologian also seems to be getting some big changes, beyond that i'm not really sure but every class will change to some degree.

I rather see all jobs simplified meaningless new abilities, but rather upgraded abilities as you level.

Machinist does it correctly, but allowing most abilities to simply be upgraded.

Right now my Gamepad left stick had my gamepad toolbar Level 50 abilities, 60 abilities, 70 abilities and 80 abilities for all the jobs I have.

My tanks have WAY to many abilities that I often have to remove depending on the level.

Why not just keep it simple instead of new abilities just focus on upgrading old ones? Every expansion, we lose or gain an ability. Why not simplify all of the abilities?

Eh, they are probably going to somehow completely change DRK again, but it'll still be a mess. HW DRK is a distant, sweet memory. Other than that, they really just need to expand on the designs in ShB, but they probably aren't. Mostly likely they will gut jobs further. Also they just need to leave WAR alone, its in a good place.

I want to be able to get all BLU magics from the outside without needing to pester people to get them inside of dungeons. I want to be able to enter PoTD, HoH, Eureka, Bosja. All single player content.

Quite frankly. I am not hyped at all for the new classes. I wanted Chemist. Not Sage. Chemist could have been the first NON MAGICAL healer. And it would have been interesting to pair it with Alchemist. But instead, we got another magical one.

As for the story. I give it the benefit of the doubt. I seriously dislike the discount Kefka and the the avatar of Boredom that Zenos is. Dislike, not hate. That's the problem. As they stand they are just Meh. But who knows. Maybe the writers will do a great job.

They were never going to add a non magical healer. Even if it had been chemist you'd still have them using spell sin one form or another. Healers are 'Disciples of Magic' afterall.

I want MNK to get one and I think that we deserve it more than any other Job in the game at this point.
Whether it's going to happen or not is a different matter and I don't have high hopes for it tbh.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Snip

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I want AoE Verfinishers, kthxbye.

Part of me wishes that the aoe elemental spells for red mage had been water/ice themed instead just for the sake of giving it spells of all six elements lol.

Currently I think ninja with their ninjitsu are the only job that touch all six.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

They were never going to add a non magical healer. Even if it had been chemist you'd still have them using spell sin one form or another. Healers are 'Disciples of Magic' afterall.

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This is totally fair, you're absolutely right, and it really makes me wonder what the gun toting chemist prototype that evolved into AST would have been like. Especially since the reason they cited for reworking Chemist into AST didn't have anything to do with magic.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Currently I think ninja with their ninjitsu are the only job that touch all six.

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Yeah, I think the only other one was 1.0 Conjurer.

I think WHM will get Holyja, Arise, and Faith.

I wish they would just decide what they wanted to do with smn and stop changing it over and over. Feels like a WoW situation with how blizzard kept changing warlock each expansion.

Also, please don't simplify classes anymore than they already are.

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Originally Posted by Empghidorah

I wish they would just decide what they wanted to do with smn and stop changing it over and over. Feels like a WoW situation with how blizzard kept changing warlock each expansion.

Also, please don't simplify classes anymore than they already are.

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Honestly my favorite SMN was HW. I know that it wasn't 'true summoner' for a lot of people but the rotation felt like the most fun then, and I liked the strategist/dot mage aspect and aetherflow/dreadwyrm trance mechanic. In SB adding demi bahamut just made it feel bloated IMO and now I don't even play it anymore in SHB.

I kind of wish somehow they could have kept the parts of SMN I liked as its own job and split off 'true summoner' into another job.

Not necessarily SMN but I wish there was a job with a lot more DoT stacking emphasis.
IDK I just find super satisfying to keep like 4~5 DoTs active.

I hope Scholar gets some love, class is fun when playing with another healer in the group, but solo healing feels weak.

If SE is going to ruin the healers, I atleast hope Sage is fun.

I would want healers to be the buffers and debuffers they are meant to be and have more than 2 main dps options from lvl 4 to lvl 90.

DPS need to lose Feint (physical), Addle (Magical), and Tactician/Troubador/Shield Samba (Overall mitigation) and and be given to healers as role abilities in Protect, Shell, and Bravery. DPS hardly ever use those abilities to begin with.

With healers possibly losing Repose, and Rescue.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Not necessarily SMN but I wish there was a job with a lot more DoT stacking emphasis.
IDK I just find super satisfying to keep like 4~5 DoTs active.

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SE has moved away from DoTs specifically because there can only be so many dots on a mob, otherwise they won't be applied.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

With healers possibly losing Repose, and Rescue.

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Alas, unless they want to change the Healer Role Quests, we're stuck with Repose.

Idk but i want https://youtu.be/hPhXqKCrGN0
Game play for dark knight and
Castlevania death for the mele dps

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

I think WHM will get Holyja, Arise, and Faith.

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Can Holyja be an oGCD on a 55 second cooldown instead of a direct upgrade to Holy and also use 1.0's Holy animation?

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Alas, unless they want to change the Healer Role Quests, we're stuck with Repose.

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Still boggles my mind Repose became a role action just for that single quest. If it was at least an aoe effect like BLM's Sleep it'd be worth something, but as is it's barely any better than Fluid Aura.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Still boggles my mind Repose became a role action just for that single quest. If it was at least an aoe effect like BLM's Sleep it'd be worth something, but as is it's barely any better than Fluid Aura.

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Yeah. I mean I could maybe understand it as a caster role action, casters are squishy and often have to deal with cast times, though they have varying degrees of being able to mitigate that. So I could maybe see it at least being useful for solo questing if you accidentally agro something extra etc. But then you're a healer and can probably easily just heal through that anyway.

Maybe they just kept it around for the sake of padding healer role actions?

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

DPS need to lose Feint (physical), Addle (Magical), and Tactician/Troubador/Shield Samba (Overall mitigation) and and be given to healers as role abilities in Protect, Shell, and Bravery. DPS hardly ever use those abilities to begin with.

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Well now this just simply isn't true.. Those tools get used all the time.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

DPS need to lose Feint (physical), Addle (Magical), and Tactician/Troubador/Shield Samba (Overall mitigation) and and be given to healers as role abilities in Protect, Shell, and Bravery. DPS hardly ever use those abilities to begin with.

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*Bad DPS hardly ever use those abilities to begin with.

Paladin needs more mitigation.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

*Bad DPS hardly ever use those abilities to begin with.

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While true, most DPS say "It doesn't increase my dps, therefore it's irrelevant"

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

While true, most DPS say "It doesn't increase my dps, therefore it's irrelevant"

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They're OGCDs that don't make you lose your DPS, so those people are just lazy.

Archer/Bard major changes I want to see in Endwalker:
1. Make it be able to compete in dps/contribution with other classes, right now you could drop any support class in favour of a pure dps and nobody will ever notice a difference.
2. Add Ranger stone, I would love to see a pure ranged dps that uses a bow. Machinist does not count.

Some minor changes:
1. Having to hit songs at exact 30 seconds intervals feels too much, instead, I would like to be able to cast all 3 songs at once, rotating through buffs does not feel natural whatsoever. (I played another pretty old MMO and there was a class that also had song buffs that lasted 2 minutes and you could keep them up all at once, it was amazing, I believe it works the same way until today and nobody ever complained).
2. Dot spread ability.
3. Add Bloodletter charges similar to pitch perfect.

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Originally Posted by AlexWard

Archer/Bard major changes I want to see in Endwalker:
1. Make it be able to compete in dps/contribution with other classes, right now you could drop any support class in favour of a pure dps and nobody will ever notice a difference.

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This is simply untrue. Bard is entirely on point with Machinist, the only job it'll ever compete with is the "selfish" category. If you meant you could drop the physical Range entirely, the party bonus prevents that as it's significant enough of a loss you'll never want to drop any of the physical Range from a comp.

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Originally Posted by AlexWard

2. Add Ranger stone, I would love to see a pure ranged dps that uses a bow. Machinist does not count.

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This will never happen. The dev team has outright stated they have no interest in branching jobs, and in fact, regret ever attempting it with Scholar and Summoner due to the balancing issues it caused. They'd rather make an entirely new job. Furthermore, ShB's iteration of Bard is essentially Ranger in all but name at this point.

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Originally Posted by AlexWard

Some minor changes:
1. Having to hit songs at exact 30 seconds intervals feels too much, instead, I would like to be able to cast all 3 songs at once, rotating through buffs does not feel natural whatsoever. (I played another pretty old MMO and there was a class that also had song buffs that lasted 2 minutes and you could keep them up all at once, it was amazing, I believe it works the same way until today and nobody ever complained).

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This more or less turns Bard into Ranger while completely destroying its whole gimmick. Wanderer's and Mage's function very differently. You couldn't simply press them both and have the job still play the way it does now. Not to mention, the songs used to be "utility" back in Heavensward. They were hated since you hardly ever bothered to press them.

Now a "super song" on say, a 180s, could be neat. But not something permanent.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

*Bad DPS hardly ever use those abilities to begin with.

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That person must have been thinking about normal content, where those are irrelevant unless you have really poor healers. I love those abilities tbh

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

I want Sabin's Blitz to be the new central mechanic for MNK. I've only been maining the job since Stormblood and I already am losing my patience waiting for SE to take any form of feedback, so I can't even imagine how ARR veterans feel that have been waiting since day 1. If MNK is still unacceptably trash by 6.0 I'm not picking up the job ever again, because at that point I doubt it will ever be good for the remainder of FFXIV's lifespan.

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every time they overhaul mnk it feels like getting a repair man in who "fixes" everything except the thing you called him for

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

SMN, SCH and AST for sure. Possible DRG too.

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I love to see SMN lose the pets and make it a pure summon i.e use a wind attack summon garuda and she disappears etc

It’s not a rework but I want Bard to be designed so that it’s actually a Bard and not a glorified Ranger who pulls a harp out of their ass every 30 seconds but then also interrupts their harp animation with bow attacks so it may as well not really exist.

And frankly the songs literally make no sense at all anymore in terms of justifying their existence. Mage’s Ballad is a song about the sages of eld and their feats of exceptional healing. This song makes you shoot faster and has no relation to anything magical or supportive whatsoever. Oh but it makes your party stronger, because, reasons. And Warden’s Paean? ‘I can literally sing away your disease but I'll only do it every 45 seconds because DPS so enjoy your Doom tanks. Oh but it’s ok because the skill may as well not exist in 99% of content anyway.

And can someone please explain me to what the hell Iron Jaws is, because it’s honestly been on my mind since Heavensward. Is it magic? Archery? Is it a Bard skill? Some kind of musical reference?

Honestly Bard isn’t even that bad to play (if you like feeling impotent), but the whole job is a mess of skills that have been smashed together, deleted, constantly buffed/nerfed, with little to no thought for the job or what they actually want it to become. Shadowbringers Bard is basically what happens when a developer becomes completely terrified of its own creation after the Stormblood OP Refresh fiasco. None of its skills work the way they do to make the job fun or exciting to play, or to create an ‘identity’ for the job. They all exist basically to make sure Bard never becomes the ultimate job and invalidates every other dps again like in Stormblood and early ARR. And I’m not saying that they should come anywhere close to that level, I’m just saying that I think the developer’s fear of Bards becoming super OP is having a really bad effect on how the job feels to play.

I genuinely believe that the best thing they can do with Bard is basically go back to the beginning (by which I mean level 30 not the core archer gameplay) and start again with a concrete idea for what they want Bards to be. I don’t think we’ll ever see anything like this happen during the games lifespan because obviously it would require sacrificing an entire expansion pack worth of work to a single job, but personally I think it’s something they could consider (could not should, I don’t expect them to ever actually do it)

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

I love to see SMN lose the pets and make it a pure summon i.e use a wind attack summon garuda and she disappears etc

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you dont need to get rid of pets to do that though. Trances allow for the ability to do it lore wise while keeping the pet they just dont want to do it.