GM Responses, Roleplay Advertising, and Party Finder - Megathread

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

So is it regular RP venues still getting hit? Or is it the only ones that are adult or ERP?

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I am still questioning if it was ever regular RP venues getting hit.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

So is it regular RP venues still getting hit? Or is it the only ones that are adult or ERP?

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Honestly, we don't know. The last case was a GM issuing a warning for some unknown reason. The community assumes it's RP, but it could have been anything.

The GM team is not making anything easy with this weird action, first the rogue GM warning people aboUT RP, then that being undone as overstepping the mark.
And now this one refusing to even say, in the broadest terms, what the problem was. Person could have said a naughty word in a dungeon for all we know.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

You can roleplay with 18+ people all you want, just drop the 18+ tags on the venues and allow them to be for 13+ access. That's literally it. No one is forcing anyone to rp with teenagers if they don't want to, you can literally ignore them in the venues if you want.

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I just find it kind of backwards that in order to comply with the rules whilst advertising your venue, you have to invite children as well. Isn't that the opposite of protecting them? Children would have a far easier time avoiding crude interactions if they weren't blindsided by them. Even as an adult I like to be aware if an establishment is going to include half naked and/or drunken people so I know not to go there.

Square-Enix really needs to look into this big time. Not for the sake of RPers or ERPers, but because it will bite them in the rear later on.

Allow me to explain: Consider that you are someone who recently joined FFXIV, you don't RP at all but are having fun with the game, so you decide to pay the next month of your sub and perhaps buying a couple of items from the Mogstation. All good. Then one day you decide to visit the forums, or maybe you read Shout Chat, and see that someone got banned with no explanation whatsoever. That's where things start to get dark and demoralizing.

You, as a player, hope that everything you do in-game doesn't break the rules of the ToS, yet whenever you take a look at incidents like this when people get strikes in their account for no reason given, then you start wondering: "Is it really worth my time, and money, to keep playing this game if the moderation is so fickle and there's no explanation of what I did wrong? I don't want to invest my time or money in a game that might boot me without explanation!".

So, it might not look like much at first when Square-Enix loses the money of someone they banned with little explanation, but when others see this happen they might start reconsidering paying their sub.

I fail to understand why advertising for RP is such a big deal here. Partyfinder shouldnt be used for any kind of advertisement at all, hence the name.

If you wish to grow your RP Community, then please do so using Fellowships and advertise for those using your characters profile message and make people aware of its existence by shouting in all the large towns just like any FC has to do. If you get a overwhelming amount of joining requests, you can even create a Linkshell for Announcements and such.

Just because Partyfinder is quite frequently visited by alot of Players and The RP Community being too lazy to do the stuff mentioned above, should'nt mean that anyone gets a free pass for the sake of convenience. You will have to pull the weight of your desired community just like any FC has to do their part (with advertisement).

I really don't understand why the content selling advertisements are totally ignored yet stuff like this is being subject to so much scrutiny from the GMs.

The former aren't even in the right section of PF which makes it further baffling as to why they just let it slide.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I am still questioning if it was ever regular RP venues getting hit.

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From my understanding of the original cases from what this all kicked off there were regular RP venues who got hit and had the actions against them reversed. So I think that was a genuine error on a GM's part that they corrected.

It does make me curious as it hasn't been explicitly stated this time.

If it's just adult & ERP ones then we can deduce why they're being moderated.

But I can empathise with the lack of clarity because if they come out with say something like, "RP Advertisements are permitted in PF as long as they follow the ToS. However, if we find they are adult in nature then we may take action" I feel like it'd solve a lot of arguments without really giving people anything to lawyer against. Because "may" remains vague, "adult" remains vague and "ToS" remains vague but it offers clarity in-so-far as whether RP in its broadest terms is allowed on the PF and clarity on whether that includes "adult" content in its broadest terms.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

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This is true. It's difficult one in that explaining what somebody did wrong could also oust the person who reported them and they have to have strict privacy policies in place (especially as some countries, including my own, are extremely strict on it), yet at the same time if you don't what you did wrong you're left make guesses at what behaviour it was.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

I fail to understand why advertising for RP is such a big deal here. Partyfinder shouldnt be used for any kind of advertisement at all, hence the name.

If you wish to grow your RP Community, then please do so using Fellowships and advertise for those using your characters profile message and make people aware of its existence by shouting in all the large towns just like any FC has to do. If you get a overwhelming amount of joining requests, you can even create a Linkshell for Announcements and such.

Just because Partyfinder is quite frequently visited by alot of Players and The RP Community being too lazy to do the stuff mentioned above, should'nt mean that anyone gets a free pass for the sake of convenience. You will have to pull the weight of your desired community just like any FC has to do their part (with advertisement).

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If it's just a community advertisement to recruit more people into that community (like an FC would), I agree, that's what fellowships are for and other methods people use to recruit for their advertisements. Heck, I would never use it for that purpose (and never have).

But there is a use that Party Finder is best for and that's advertising RP that is happening right now or is about to start and using it to attract people to join in. People looking for RP might go to the PF to see what RP might be going on right now. Just as people who're wanting to do other content might do. Fellowships aren't good for this.

The feedback last time was that what you put in the PF is fine as long as the content doesn't violate ToS and nothing in the ToS suggests this is a misuse.

Now, obviously other games do not have our party finder issues, but look at others such as WoW on servers such as moon guard and wyrmrest accord. There are literally multiple add ins to create discreet profiles of any nature in order to “hide or advertise” any level of RP content. I think you know what I mean by this, and it’s never become any issue with terms of service, harassment, etc. Whats the big fuss with it happening in any other game in comparison. Generally, if I don’t like something, I don’t participate. If being given a party finder that says 18+ or a carrd link that shows 18+ guidelines is what shows me, I don’t want to be part of it, heck I’m gonna appreciate the heads up on it, to be fair.

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Originally Posted by RavenEbonclaw

Now, obviously other games do not have our party finder issues, but look at others such as WoW on servers such as moon guard and wyrmrest accord. There are literally multiple add ins to create discreet profiles of any nature in order to “hide or advertise” any level of RP content. I think you know what I mean by this, and it’s never become any issue with terms of service, harassment, etc. Whats the big fuss with it happening in any other game in comparison. Generally, if I don’t like something, I don’t participate. If being given a party finder that says 18+ or a carrd link that shows 18+ guidelines is what shows me, I don’t want to be part of it, heck I’m gonna appreciate the heads up on it, to be fair.

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And I'm inclined to agree up until the one argument people keep making and that is when it comes to minors (and by extension, the law). Whatever moral argument people can make to where the responsibility lies on that one, in some countries like the UK and US the law will hold the adult in the situation to be responsible.

If somebody unknowingly engages in sexual virtual activity with a minor (which could be seen as cybersex) because that minor ignored that 18+ warning then that could be a sexual offense. I don't know how 'big' of a concern or issue that is in this game.

But this is at the core of why people feel there is an issue especially as this is a teen rated game regardless of how online interactions are rated, it means it still attracts teens.

For me, I wouldn't want to see an RPer with good intentions get caught in that situation. When asked about brothel advertisements (it was specifically brothel that was referenced, but I am aware adult refers to a wider range of things) YoshiP pointed straight to the part of the ToS that refers to breaking the law and urged players to report this activity. So I expect they are very conscious about the legality here, especially given how many countries the player base covers.

I don't think it should mean ERP or any adult RP should go away from the game, because I don't think there's anything wrong with it and I think it's a legitimate thing for consenting adults and heck, not all forms of ERP are cybersex (some of it is just RPing erotica) and I don't think it deserves the stigmatism is gets.

But I'd understand if they decided that open advertising of such things was too risky or created too many problems. There are other avenues people can use at least.

I support the statement fully, and if you look up WoW’s rating and esrb it is also T for teen. Yet why is it not a problem there? The same multi-country legality extends to them as well. Sure, we can debate different devs, different ideals, different personal morality all day long, but if we’re going to hold someone to a guideline that earns strikes against them culminating in a ban....We need something other than “you are expected to behave yourself”. “Behaving yourself” is opinion based and can vary widely based on perspective.

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Originally Posted by RavenEbonclaw

I support the statement fully, and if you look up WoW’s rating and esrb it is also T for teen. Yet why is it not a problem there? The same multi-country legality extends to them as well. Sure, we can debate different devs, different ideals, different personal morality all day long, but if we’re going to hold someone to a guideline that earns strikes against them culminating in a ban....We need something other than “you are expected to behave yourself”. “Behaving yourself” is opinion based and can vary widely based on perspective.

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I probably would debate different Devs different ideals, because whilst on the one hand you can use the comparison to suggest they're being overzealous here you could also use it to say WoW's team don't do enough.

But for sure I agree on the clarity point. It's not something the ToS is clear on and I think there is a sufficiently ambiguous way they can make clear their stance on this issue (that sentence feels like an oxymoron)

But I will add that it is unlikely we'll anything as clear, but I guess if we can establish if non adult RP advertisements arent getting hit by these GM's then I'd say it's the closest we'll get, because we'll know it's about the adult content if non adult content is being left alone

I genuinely feel here, what all of our goals are: They need clarity to hold people to. If it’s no ERP suggestive themes? Then so be it, the community inherently must abide to it, but what we have right now is unsustainable, leaves room for allegations that are misrepresented based on individual intent that may vary from either side of things, and leaves room for a ton of potential abuse.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I just find it kind of backwards that in order to comply with the rules whilst advertising your venue, you have to invite children as well. Isn't that the opposite of protecting them? Children would have a far easier time avoiding crude interactions if they weren't blindsided by them. Even as an adult I like to be aware if an establishment is going to include half naked and/or drunken people so I know not to go there.

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Fair enough. I'm just trying to offer a solution because IF the 18+ tag is the issue, then ultimately people will have to either take 18+ events completely off in-game advertisement or turn them into all ages SFW events (which is what I was saying, like a community event). Like there aren't many other solutions if the problem is ultimately that and the staff don't want 18+ advertised in game.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

That is all. I welcome any criticism and discussion that can be had so that we can move on and change Final Fantasy XIV for the better.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

If you aren't going to give anything constructive, then don't say anything at all; this is meant to be a constructive discussion thread, not just somewhere where you can bash Roleplaying however you like without explanation why.

Edit to @van_arn: I'm not saying people should get away with ERP or the like. But right now the line is too blurry to make a logical call on it in regards to Roleplay - refer to the original post.

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Hmm, very ironic. Also, he is right.

Now for my explanation on the matter. I think RP shouldn't be allowed at all. None. Why? This a rated 13+ game. And with the past experiences I've had with RP'ers in FFXIV, it was very awkward, cringe and can downright spiral into 18+ ERP at any given moment. And this was in open chat years back in 2.0'ish. Now you may say "Well I don't do it", that doesn't matter. It doesn't mean that no one else does it. With the way RP is and how some people can take it off the rails pretty fast, it needs to be heavily moderated for a 13+ game. No if's and or but's. Things may have been different in the past years for RP but if people are reporting RP as it is now, it means that RP is getting out of hand.

I understand people love to RP and those who ERP ruin it for them but it really shouldn't be in a 13+ game as I said RP could easily turn into ERP. I mean, imagine you have a 13/14+ year old daughter or son who is playing with you and they start getting ERP messages from someone or even just normal RP messages which would turn into ERP or hearing it in normal chat. Would you be mad, etc?

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I really don't understand why the content selling advertisements are totally ignored yet stuff like this is being subject to so much scrutiny from the GMs.

The former aren't even in the right section of PF which makes it further baffling as to why they just let it slide.

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So I'm a little confused. Because it's been a trend for people to point the finger at RMT sellers and the like when people mention ERP in a negative light.

I naturally assume that exposing and even involving minors with explicit 18+ rated content would be considered far more severe than someone potentially selling a digital mount, currency or title.

I'm not sure if anyone is implying that they're both equally bad or not. Can someone give me some clarification here?

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Now for my explanation on the matter. I think RP shouldn't be allowed at all. None.

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We better shut down FFXIV, then, since it's an RPG, and the very act of playing it is RPing.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Hmm, very ironic. Also, he is right.

Now for my explanation on the matter. I think RP shouldn't be allowed at all. None. Why? This a rated 13+ game. And with the past experiences I've had with RP'ers in FFXIV, it was very awkward, cringe and can downright spiral into 18+ ERP at any given moment. And this was in open chat years back in 2.0'ish. Now you may say "Well I don't do it", that doesn't matter. It doesn't mean that no one else does it. With the way RP is and how some people can take it off the rails pretty fast, it needs to be heavily moderated for a 13+ game. No if's and or but's. Things may have been different in the past years for RP but if people are reporting RP as it is now, it means that RP is getting out of hand.

I understand people love to RP and those who ERP ruin it for them but it really shouldn't be in a 13+ game as I said RP could easily turn into ERP. I mean, imagine you have a 13/14+ year old daughter or son who is playing with you and they start getting ERP messages from someone or even just normal RP messages which would turn into ERP or hearing it in normal chat. Would you be mad, etc?

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Either the rp community in NA is truly horrendous or you're greatly exaggerating.

Also lets not talk about rp as if it's the only sort of thing that can expose minors to inappropriate chatter. If a creep wants to be a creep they will find a way, with or without rp. I met plenty of creeps in my time gaming online and most of the time their advances did not start from rp at all. We didn't even meet through rp. Sometimes having a character that they think looks attractive is enough to get their attention. And no glamming modestly doesn't completely protect you from that kind of attention.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

So I'm a little confused. Because it's been a trend for people to point the finger at RMT sellers and the like when people mention ERP in a negative light.

I naturally assume that exposing and even involving minors with explicit 18+ rated content would be considered far more severe than someone potentially selling a digital mount, currency or title.

I'm not sure if anyone is implying that they're both equally bad or not. Can someone give me some clarification here?

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I think the issue lies with the cherry picking. If both are against the TOS, then both should be dealt with. The thing about the content selling PFs, though, is that they don’t directly mention that the content is being sold in exchange for real money. That is only mentioned off-site (usually via Discord DMs). And the moderation team have a history of not accepting third-party screenshots as evidence since they can be altered. They’ve broken the “no third-party evidence” before, but it’s not that common of a practice.

ERP involving minors is most definitely worse than RMT. Not saying it isn’t.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Hmm, very ironic. Also, he is right.

Now for my explanation on the matter. I think RP shouldn't be allowed at all. None. Why? This a rated 13+ game. And with the past experiences I've had with RP'ers in FFXIV, it was very awkward, cringe and can downright spiral into 18+ ERP at any given moment. And this was in open chat years back in 2.0'ish. Now you may say "Well I don't do it", that doesn't matter. It doesn't mean that no one else does it. With the way RP is and how some people can take it off the rails pretty fast, it needs to be heavily moderated for a 13+ game. No if's and or but's. Things may have been different in the past years for RP but if people are reporting RP as it is now, it means that RP is getting out of hand.

I understand people love to RP and those who ERP ruin it for them but it really shouldn't be in a 13+ game as I said RP could easily turn into ERP. I mean, imagine you have a 13/14+ year old daughter or son who is playing with you and they start getting ERP messages from someone or even just normal RP messages which would turn into ERP or hearing it in normal chat. Would you be mad, etc?

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I'm not sure how not allowing RP in a MMORPG would work out..

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Either the rp community in NA is truly horrendous or you're greatly exaggerating.

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I wouldn't call it "horrendous" per say, but I would say it is heavily money driven (outside of Crystal apparently). And people in my DC at least know that RP venues make money so there are several venues that have opened simply for the purpose of making money through 18+ content. Personally I know someone who is planning to open one in the near future because of that. So I'm sure that factor is driving some people on the side that doesn't want 18+ content to be removed. Due to the fact that some are standing to lose a part of their income.

I'm not sure if any other DCs experience this (particularly EU/JP) but that's the situation that I'm aware of from Aether.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

We better shut down FFXIV, then, since it's an RPG, and the very act of playing it is RPing.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I'm not sure how not allowing RP in a MMORPG would work out..

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You two both know what i mean. Quit being dense.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I think the issue lies with the cherry picking. If both are against the TOS, then both should be dealt with. The thing about the content selling PFs, though, is that they don’t directly mention that the content is being sold in exchange for real money. That is only mentioned off-site (usually via Discord DMs). And the moderation team have a history of not accepting third-party screenshots as evidence since they can be altered. They’ve broken the “no third-party evidence” before, but it’s not that common of a practice.

ERP involving minors is most definitely worse than RMT. Not saying it isn’t.

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Oooo! Ok, now I can wrap my head around it. Thanks so much for the elaboration.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I wouldn't call it "horrendous" per say, but I would say it is heavily money driven (outside of Crystal apparently). And people in my DC at least know that RP venues make money so there are several venues that have opened simply for the purpose of making money through 18+ content. Personally I know someone who is planning to open one in the near future simply for that purpose. I'm not sure if any other DCs experience this (particularly EU/JP) but that's the situation that I'm aware of from Aether.

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I have only done a handful of rp in this game and most of it was with fc members, people I know very well. However I do know people who rp a lot and while they have some interesting stories about creeps, my impression is they're the exception not the norm. It seems for the most part the rpers they interact with are just lore junkies using the game as a creative outlet. I did a lot of rp in WoW and again while I have some interesting stories, for the most part people just wanted to create stories. The majority of my bad rp experiences have been due to people who were just bad at rp, not those who wanted to erp. EU servers in both cases. I have no clue how different or similar rp is in NA in both games.

And I'm disinclined to blindly believe that NA is just full of degenerates because many of those who criticise rp in the forums put rp and erp in the same basket. Similar to how many casual players put vocal elitist raiders and raiders who mind their own business in the same basket. Many players cannot and even refuse to see the difference.

At this point I am getting curious enough that I may make a NA alt to have a look for myself. I don't think it's as bad as many say it is, but like I said before I have no experience rping in a NA community. Maybe it is very different.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Hmm, very ironic. Also, he is right.

Now for my explanation on the matter. I think RP shouldn't be allowed at all. None. Why? This a rated 13+ game. And with the past experiences I've had with RP'ers in FFXIV, it was very awkward, cringe and can downright spiral into 18+ ERP at any given moment. And this was in open chat years back in 2.0'ish. Now you may say "Well I don't do it", that doesn't matter. It doesn't mean that no one else does it. With the way RP is and how some people can take it off the rails pretty fast, it needs to be heavily moderated for a 13+ game. No if's and or but's. Things may have been different in the past years for RP but if people are reporting RP as it is now, it means that RP is getting out of hand.

I understand people love to RP and those who ERP ruin it for them but it really shouldn't be in a 13+ game as I said RP could easily turn into ERP. I mean, imagine you have a 13/14+ year old daughter or son who is playing with you and they start getting ERP messages from someone or even just normal RP messages which would turn into ERP or hearing it in normal chat. Would you be mad, etc?

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...Y'know, RP really is more than what your narrow view of it seems to believe it is.

Something as simple as picking out a lore-friendly name and trying to walk around in reasonable glamours is already you roleplaying a character. You want to present this avatar you've created a certain way. You don't have to actively go out of your way to have a full-blown in-character conversation with someone to be RPing.

Khenda, my personal MMO avatar, isn't a strictly defined character per-say. I don't go out of my way to be the limsa thot my parents always told me I could be. Still, whenever a story cutscene comes in, I always think "how is Khenda reacting to this situation?" because I treat her as part of the world.

Why, then, is it so wrong for people to take that just the smallest step further and have conversations with other people as their characters? To really treat themselves as if they're part of the world?

And, on a more humorous note, you also have people playing joke characters, like the Kinda-Heroes of Limsa Lominsa. Whether you like it or not, this is roleplay too, and they very much keep it PG13.

This is why people get upset when you generalize all RP to be ERP or ERP-adjacent. It's simply not true. There are a lot of people just having innocent, kid-friendly fun in the game too. RP is an impossibly broad umbrella and banning all of it is banning quite a sizeable portion of the players who care about the story at all.

After all, why bother with a glamour system if you're not allowed to be a character? If you're just a ball of stats, it shouldn't matter how you look.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I have only done a handful of rp in this game and most of it was with fc members, people I know very well. However I do know people who rp a lot and while they have some interesting stories about creeps, my impression is they're the exception not the norm. It seems for the most part the rpers they interact with are just lore junkies using the game as a creative outlet. I did a lot of rp in WoW and again while I have some interesting stories, for the most part people just wanted to create stories. The majority of my bad rp experiences have been due to people who were just bad at rp, not those who wanted to erp. EU servers in both cases. I have no clue how different or similar rp is in NA in both games.

And I'm disinclined to blindly believe that NA is just full of degenerates because many of those who criticise rp in the forums put rp and erp in the same basket. Similar to how many casual players put vocal elitist raiders and raiders who mind their own business in the same basket. Many players cannot and even refuse to see the difference.

At this point I am getting curious enough that I may make a NA alt to have a look for myself. I don't think it's as bad as many say it is, but like I said before I have no experience rping in a NA community. Maybe it is very different.

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Oh yeah I'm not at all saying it's everyone. For example, I've seen a new venue pop up over the last week that's SFW and strictly for fun, not profit. However, this is not something I see very often and I more than not visit venues that expect you to pay real gil (Some are reasonable and fair while others ask for 10K+ for items that would cost 90% less on MB). Most (and by most I mean 98%) of the advertisements for venues hiring people these days that I have seen include: "Like RP? Want to get paid for it?" or "Hiring Courtesans, pay included!" (Still kind of blows my mind that people are advertising for ERP workers during this whole thing while people are getting reported like crazy for it by the witch hunt moving through Aether, but to each their own). So, I stand by what I say that it's money driven rather than people doing it simply for the love of RP. If that was the case, I wouldn't have to expect to bring gil with me when I go out with my boyfriend and could pay with pretend money (like is the case in Crystal from what I've been told).

Also, and this is again my opinion, a good handful or more of the 18+ venues I've visited do involve courtesan services. I'm not at all saying every 18+ venue does that because that's not true. I see it mostly in the nightclub scene compared to bars or other 18+ venues. On any given night (especially Th-Sun though), you'll see at least 5-10 ads of people advertising 18+ nightclubs (some not even bothering to remove Courts/Courtesans from their PF).

Feel free to come check it out though if you want.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

You two both know what i mean. Quit being dense.

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It ain't even dense, you literally said "No RP in a RPG."

I mean, sure they could have attacked the """common sense""" argument of "RP is a gateway to ERP!" with your barely anecdotal evidence of "It pretty much happened to me! So clearly it's true!!" When it's hard to judge a whole community based on your highly limited experience.

Or maybe the clear """Think of the children!!""" stance in this completely made up and pretty unlikely scenario of "your son/daughter being sexually harassed by a ERP'er in whispers or normal chat!" when the actual likely outcome of that is a report, and a strike/ban against the person stupid enough to whisper some weird stuff to people.

Moderation is suppose to fill that gap between "Rated T for Teen" and "Online interactions not rated by the ESRB". And they do that with reports, so if you see someone ERP in a public chat? Report them, it's easy to give a zone, time and date for the GM's to check the logs of. Get a gross whisper? Again, time, zone and date.

The truly ironic part is that you call for RP to not be allowed at all but then say because it's a teen game it should be heavily moderated.
Which is it then? Cause one is moderation the other is extremism.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I have only done a handful of rp in this game and most of it was with fc members, people I know very well. However I do know people who rp a lot and while they have some interesting stories about creeps, my impression is they're the exception not the norm. It seems for the most part the rpers they interact with are just lore junkies using the game as a creative outlet. I did a lot of rp in WoW and again while I have some interesting stories, for the most part people just wanted to create stories. The majority of my bad rp experiences have been due to people who were just bad at rp, not those who wanted to erp. EU servers in both cases. I have no clue how different or similar rp is in NA in both games.

And I'm disinclined to blindly believe that NA is just full of degenerates because many of those who criticise rp in the forums put rp and erp in the same basket. Similar to how many casual players put vocal elitist raiders and raiders who mind their own business in the same basket. Many players cannot and even refuse to see the difference.

At this point I am getting curious enough that I may make a NA alt to have a look for myself. I don't think it's as bad as many say it is, but like I said before I have no experience rping in a NA community. Maybe it is very different.

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For NA, I'd say Crystal is reflective of your experiences. Other data centers, I don't know, I've only just discovered it's the norm for other data centers to charge gil for RP and sometimes with a high mark up and that they treat RP in the same mindset they'd take running a business. So it seems their idea of RP is different.

Creeps exist and I think they exist regardless of RP, as all it takes is for somebody to reveal they're female for the creepers to wet their eyebrow and be like "helloooo", but regardless seem to be in the minority in the FFXIV community. And these would be people who those in the RP community would ostracize or even report, because hey, nobody wants a creeper.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

You two both know what i mean. Quit being dense.

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In fairness RP in an MMORPG has been a long established and common thing to the point some games will delegate specific RP servers and in the case of FFXIV add features specifically to accommodate RP. It has as much of a place as raiding, extremes, ultimate etc.

And RP isn't a gateway to ERP as your earlier posts suggests. Maybe certain /types/ but a huge amount of RP isn't people trying to pick each other up in bars. They're more like what the poster I quoted at the top describes: lore junkies who use it as a creative outlet. It's not like it plays out as, "Woop, we saved these people from a Garlean attack, we rock, so, we're hero adventurers. So...who's up for some sex?"

Not that ERP is even bad in itself. Just obviously when it involves a minor it is. To which my advice would be, if people wanna ERP, know the person you're ERPing with and that's it's in private.

Well this has devolved into a truly fascinating debate. RP all RP should be banned... huh where have i heard similar arguments to that?

“Mortal Kombat is teaching children to be violent! All videogames should be banned!!”

“Grand Theft Auto is training our kids to be criminals ban it!”

“Call of Duty and Battlefield is glorifying guns and shooting people and is the cause of the rise in mass shootings! Ban them”

So at what point does your censorship of what belongs and what doesn’t infringe on others rights to free speech and freedom of expression? Hmm?

Toxic raiders mock and belittle me for my dps numbers or kick me from parties cause I die too much or mock me for not raiding so we should ban raiding! Is that next?

Im not good at gold saucer stuff so ban that?

Bad at pvp ban it!

Dont agree with the msq? BAN IT!

You aint protecting no kids, kids do what kids do, responsible adults should be open if their content is not meant for young kids, telling them to stay away.

If you do not give adults a space of their own, they will make it, if you ban that, they will find another or leave and you will see this game die. So work with people to demand some clarity for all people involved rather than this veiled intolerant based censorship hiding behind a “save the kids” mentality. I have a kid and they know full well to avoid anything outside their age group and i do the responsible thing and MONITOR WHAT THEY DO ONLINE.

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Originally Posted by RavenEbonclaw

I support the statement fully, and if you look up WoW’s rating and esrb it is also T for teen. Yet why is it not a problem there? The same multi-country legality extends to them as well. Sure, we can debate different devs, different ideals, different personal morality all day long, but if we’re going to hold someone to a guideline that earns strikes against them culminating in a ban....We need something other than “you are expected to behave yourself”. “Behaving yourself” is opinion based and can vary widely based on perspective.

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Uhh, either your blissfully ignorant in regards to what you're talking about, or being willfully deceptive. Do a Google search of 'pornshire' and you'll find that the first 3 1/2-ish pages are dedicated to the ERP that is common place Goldshire, a small village that is in a level 1 starting area for Humans. And it has been known as such since about Cataclysm or Mists of Pandaria so it's certainly not a recent development. For those that don't want that in their search history - https://www.google.com/search?client...-d&q=pornshire

The difference between the two is that WoW's community is a bit more gruff, rough, and tumble. XIV... not so much, at best it's a bunch of idealists projecting how they feel it should be, or at worst it's a bunch of sjw's finding a soapbox to stand on. And no, I'm not trying to turn this into a talking point, just firing thoughts into the void, but feel free to respond just don't expect one in return.

IT i not against roleplaying values the ToS at all to do roleplaying stuff, but if flooding or spamming the tool of Partyfinder with stuff it goes into that area as spam with or without special content.. then name itself 'partyfinder' indicates it is needed to find players for content that the game has built... pvp, fates, treasure map hunts, roulettes and much more down those lines.

I don't see why it specific has to be explained in the ToS what the use of PF is, when it say it with the name only.

Just keep it appropriate for the age rating that has been designated and all be good. Don't expose minors or people not of appropriate age to an explicit mature setting, simple.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

IT i not against roleplaying values the ToS at all to do roleplaying stuff, but if flooding or spamming the tool of Partyfinder with stuff it goes into that area as spam with or without special content.. then name itself 'partyfinder' indicates it is needed to find players for content that the game has built... pvp, fates, treasure map hunts, roulettes and much more down those lines.

I don't see why it specific has to be explained in the ToS what the use of PF is, when it say it with the name only.

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Except the rules and use of partyfinder in the manual as expressed earlier do not state it is only meant to be used for content just for “likeminded goals” and even after such Yoshi-P himself has said the dev team considers RP part of the game content so as such it is perfectly viable and should be allowed to be advertised in the partyfinder feature.

You may not like that fact but it is content and therefore by your own definition, people are allowed to use pf to find like minded people for it. And as for the 18+ argument, okay if the rp’ers looking for like minded people to play with on the pf can’t define the terms of their search. I expect every one of you to say it’s not fair for farm parties to specify everyone has to have a clear, or clear parties have to be at a certain phase.

Ya know wouldn’t be right to set the standard that Rp’ers cant define their search parameters publicly but the raiders can. So if we’re gonna do this lets go big and do it right. Only vague pf posts now, sort out who you want as they join your party. :3

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Except the rules and use of partyfinder in the manual as expressed earlier do not state it is only meant to be used for content just for “likeminded goals” and even after such Yoshi-P himself has said the dev team considers RP part of the game content so as such it is perfectly viable and should be allowed to be advertised in the partyfinder feature.

You may not like that fact but it is content and therefore by your own definition, people are allowed to use pf to find like minded people for it. And as for the 18+ argument, okay if the rp’ers looking for like minded people to play with on the pf can’t define the terms of their search. I expect every one of you to say it’s not fair for farm parties to specify everyone has to have a clear, or clear parties have to be at a certain phase.

Ya know wouldn’t be right to set the standard that Rp’ers cant define their search parameters publicly but the raiders can. So if we’re gonna do this lets go big and do it right. Only vague pf posts now, sort out who you want as they join your party. :3

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Not sure what age and clearing content have to do with each other but okay. I was on board with your argument until you went there. Having 18+ content in a game meant for 13+ is incredibly different than having a raid/trial/dungeon completed so people can farm mounts quickly. I really hope you can understand that...

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

Uhh, either your blissfully ignorant in regards to what you're talking about, or being willfully deceptive. Do a Google search of 'pornshire' and you'll find that the first 3 1/2-ish pages are dedicated to the ERP that is common place Goldshire, a small village that is in a level 1 starting area for Humans. And it has been known as such since about Cataclysm or Mists of Pandaria so it's certainly not a recent development. For those that don't want that in their search history - https://www.google.com/search?client...-d&q=pornshire

The difference between the two is that WoW's community is a bit more gruff, rough, and tumble. XIV... not so much, at best it's a bunch of idealists projecting how they feel it should be, or at worst it's a bunch of sjw's finding a soapbox to stand on. And no, I'm not trying to turn this into a talking point, just firing thoughts into the void, but feel free to respond just don't expect one in return.

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I’m well aware of it, used to play on moonguard. Not sure you understood the point I was getting across. Both games are T for teen, it is not a viewed “issue” there, but it is in this community, and it’s garnering account actions.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Except the rules and use of partyfinder in the manual as expressed earlier do not state it is only meant to be used for content just for “likeminded goals” and even after such Yoshi-P himself has said the dev team considers RP part of the game content so as such it is perfectly viable and should be allowed to be advertised in the partyfinder feature.

You may not like that fact but it is content and therefore by your own definition, people are allowed to use pf to find like minded people for it. And as for the 18+ argument, okay if the rp’ers looking for like minded people to play with on the pf can’t define the terms of their search. I expect every one of you to say it’s not fair for farm parties to specify everyone has to have a clear, or clear parties have to be at a certain phase.

Ya know wouldn’t be right to set the standard that Rp’ers cant define their search parameters publicly but the raiders can. So if we’re gonna do this lets go big and do it right. Only vague pf posts now, sort out who you want as they join your party. :3

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Use Fellowshipfinder, it is quite usefull and also to be able to shape a community better, for those engaged in it, also it is way more usefull for RP content than what spamming/flooding with an ad in Partyfinder, even though fellowship does not seem to have much of an interface then it DO have massive posible corners to play around with.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Not sure what age and clearing content have to do with each other but okay. I was on board with your argument until you went there. Having 18+ content in a game meant for 13+ is incredibly different than having a raid/trial/dungeon completed so people can farm mounts quickly. I really hope you can understand that...

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Oh I understand the age thing is different but, RP’ers looking for a certain age group to write with is not illegal nor does it violate any ToS or UA.

So I used the obviously ridiculous comparison to show how ridiculous the request was.

You are asking adults to act like 13 year olds and in a manner that is acceptable to 13 year olds. In place of them trying to create a clearly defined space for them to be adults and amongst consenting adults. At some point parental responsibility has to be a factor.

This is a teen rated game is not an argument to force censorship. The PF has already been cleared by GMs to be used in the way it has been. So if that’s changed it needs to be clarified if not then random account strikes need to be stopped. Period.

Nothing wrong with catering your own space. Get over yourselves. And parents, you should celebrate the fact that these people put 18+ in their ads, know why?! SO YOU CAN MAKE SURE YOUR KIDS DONT GO!

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Use Fellowshipfinder, it is quite usefull and also to be able to shape a community better, for those engaged in it, also it is way more usefull for RP content than what spamming/flooding with an ad in Partyfinder, even though fellowship does not seem to have much of an interface then it DO have massive posible corners to play around with.

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As for Fellowships, there’s nothing saying RP’ers can’t use the pf or has to use the fellowships, thats why clarity has been asked for. I dont run a venue or anything, but I’m not gonna sit here and watch a section of this community get ostracized and cast out and censored over some bs cancel culture argument that isn’t even well thought out.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Oh I understand the age thing is different but, RP’ers looking for a certain age group to write with is not illegal nor does it violate any ToS or UA.

So I used the obviously ridiculous comparison to show how ridiculous the request was.

You are asking adults to act like 13 year olds and in a manner that is acceptable to 13 year olds. In place of them trying to create a clearly defined space for them to be adults and amongst consenting adults. At some point parental responsibility has to be a factor.

This is a teen rated game is not an argument to force censorship. The PF has already been cleared by GMs to be used in the way it has been. So if that’s changed it needs to be clarified if not then random account strikes need to be stopped. Period.

Nothing wrong with catering your own space. Get over yourselves. And parents, you should celebrate the fact that these people put 18+ in their ads, know why?! SO YOU CAN MAKE SURE YOUR KIDS DONT GO!

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That was a false equivalence. Advertising in itself is not illegal and doesn't violate anything, but it opens up a vulnerable situation to those that aren't of an appropriate age. Furthermore, you cannot control whether someone does or doesn't access the venue that is not of appropriate age, this is the issue with advertising 18+ content in an open space; that tag is the only control/blockade you have to prevent, which in itself is not a sufficient measure.

If someone who is 13 accessed a mature venue and were to do anything deemed as inappropriate or illegal, then you can rest assured the person or people of mature age complicit in the activity would be deemed as largely responsible, as would the person advertising. If any backlash were to ever come of this I can dare argue that SE would very quickly stamp their foot down.

Dunno if you're a parent or not, but do you have any idea of the difficulty with policing their every activity in an online game? Not feasible, and the child isn't going to go; "Mum, can I access this mature venue that has been advertised as 18+" - Their curiosity will trump their asking for permission.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Oh I understand the age thing is different but, RP’ers looking for a certain age group to write with is not illegal nor does it violate any ToS or UA.

So I used the obviously ridiculous comparison to show how ridiculous the request was.

You are asking adults to act like 13 year olds and in a manner that is acceptable to 13 year olds. In place of them trying to create a clearly defined space for them to be adults and amongst consenting adults. At some point parental responsibility has to be a factor.

This is a teen rated game is not an argument to force censorship. The PF has already been cleared by GMs to be used in the way it has been. So if that’s changed it needs to be clarified if not then random account strikes need to be stopped. Period.

Nothing wrong with catering your own space. Get over yourselves. And parents, you should celebrate the fact that these people put 18+ in their ads, know why?! SO YOU CAN MAKE SURE YOUR KIDS DONT GO!

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At the end of the day, you still don't know who is behind the screen typing to you when you go out and meet someone randomly at a venue and you can't just demand parents to do what you would like them to do.

I've said this before in other threads but, especially with the pandemic, my friends, people I engage with on other websites, etc. who are parents are incredibly sick of having to mind their children 24/7. As in, they actively look for ways to give them distractions so they don't have to monitor what they do and get space from them. I don't agree with that mindset if you bring a kid into the world but ultimately I'm not a parent and I don't know how it feels to parent. I'm just saying that you're doing a lot of assuming that the majority of parents monitor their kids internet access/gaming habits appropriately/that they even want to bother doing that. If that was the case, children/teens wouldn't be emptying out their parents entire bank accounts on microtransactions (I'm sure we all know about the FIFA drama) and it wouldn't be as big of a deal as it is in the video game industry right now. I had parents who did monitor my internet access but it didn't start until AFTER I got caught doing things that were not age appropriate for me at the time. A lot don't even consider their child being anything other than a perfect angel online until after they do something wrong.

I personally agree with the stance of: "If you want to engage in 18+ activities, do it with people you know in a private setting." You do not know who is on the other end in a random encounter and I'm sorry, telling me that children/teens should know better isn't valid either because I'm sure you made mistakes when you were younger too.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Use Fellowshipfinder, it is quite usefull and also to be able to shape a community better, for those engaged in it, also it is way more usefull for RP content than what spamming/fl with an ad in Partyfinder, even though fellowship does not seem to have much of an interface then it DO have massive posible corners to play around with.

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Next we’ll have people flaming fellowships over the same reasons.