And like I said, there are plenty of threads in General Discussion that obviously belong in another forum (or don't belong on the forums at all) but the mods don't touch those so I can't imagine them touching this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont
ROYAL RUBY • NIGHTCLUB • BEHEMOTH/PRIMAL
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03-07-2021, 09:07 AMMimilu
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03-07-2021, 09:08 AMTint
Just imagine every raid group and FC would also start using the general discussion for their advertisments. Same rules for everyone I would say o.ô
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03-07-2021, 09:16 AMvan_arnThe mods don’t do a lot of things thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
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03-07-2021, 10:16 AMIscahThe problem is volume. Any one individual ad is fine, but it would only take a fairly small number of these ads to fill up the front page of the forum, especially if people keep bumping them so they stay visible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
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03-07-2021, 10:16 AMMilkieTeaTook the mods close to 2 weeks to adequately react to the autoclicker thread, what makes them think that's how one should judge whether or not to do something? >:?Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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03-07-2021, 10:58 AMArchpoetIt seems to me that this one sparked a fair amount of discussion as anything else. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkieTea
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03-07-2021, 11:18 AMNightroadWho do you think you are ?Quote:
Originally Posted by DamianFatale
You do not speak for me , or should I take a page out of your book and rather say : You do not speak for us . -
03-07-2021, 11:28 AMMilkieTeaExcept: the original post on this thread, does not ask for discussion, does not discuss the merits of advertisement, does not have points to criticize or agree with, and does not spark discussion. What instead sparked discussion were the responses indicating that this should have been moved to the World forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archpoet
tl;dr: your post didn't spark discussion, someone else's did, it just so happened they were replying to you. -
03-07-2021, 05:23 PMColetergeistUm, you don't speak for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by DamianFatale
And I personally don't get my panties in a bunch over these things. -
03-07-2021, 05:29 PMMintnHoneyIn that sense, we'd technically all be off-topic, and that's technically against the rules, so... I guess we should all be temp. banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkieTea
Guilt-mongering is fun. :)
That all being said, I wonder if this Nightclub is actually clubbing at this very moment, and, if so, whether or not it actually looks like clubbing, or if it's just a bunch of people standing/sitting around and/or posing/dancing in what looks like a remaster of the America's Next Top Model video game. -
03-07-2021, 10:06 PMMilkieTealmao "guilt-mongering" where.Quote:
Originally Posted by MintnHoney
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03-07-2021, 11:29 PMKaurhzSure, it's harmless, but then it also sets a bad precedent going forward about how this subthread can be used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaray
Can you imagine if those advertising for clear sales were to do the same thing in this subforum? and those guys don't even have the consideration to use the "Other" category either, so I would argue they'd even bump and necro their own threads. -
03-08-2021, 08:29 AMBsrking5
So when is it open next time?
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03-08-2021, 08:58 AMNanaWilohBards playing music are pretending to be musicians :D This is a game and games are all about playing pretend in some form.Quote:
Originally Posted by SturmChurro
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03-08-2021, 01:15 PMArchpoetThe Royal Ruby is open Friday nights from 9pm - 12am (ish) Pacific.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsrking5
As stated previously in this thread, we do not support ERP.
We have an RP bar, fine dining experience as well as personally curated music played by a DJ-bot in discord.
I will look forward to seeing you sometime! :) -
03-08-2021, 01:39 PMSturmChurroI disagree. Bards actually have a built in music feature, so they can actually play music - if they had the skill. As an example, "Night Club" RP would make more sense if this game was Second Life or IMVU, etc, in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by NanaWiloh
Many of these type of "venues" are designed to actually make Gil, for "services". ERP, and non-ERP. That is why many of them are advertising, especially the ERP ones. -
03-08-2021, 04:16 PMrance-sama
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03-08-2021, 05:28 PMNanaWilohReal skill belongs to the players who have translated music for the music system. Not every bard playing music wrote the music or even knows how to translate it over, some are just copying the work of others. After a quick search on FF14 bard music found that there is a program that will play musical pieces for you. So goes without saying there are true musicians and those that pretend to have skill when they truly dont.Quote:
Originally Posted by SturmChurro
Side note finding the program confirmed what I thought about a five bard group on Behemoth months back. They put on a awesome show but it was clear that it was Multi-Boxer and no way they were controlling all five manually. -
03-08-2021, 07:19 PMSaefinnNGL the paying of gil for the services is suspect. Whilst I get paying real gil could add more to the immersion, but 10,000 for a steak is steep. With it being seeming to be real gil, they're gonna make bank. Most venues I see in the RP world only charge pretend gil, I run a tavern with my FC and we at most charge 200gil for something and that's pretend gil & from what I've seen is about average.Quote:
Originally Posted by SturmChurro
I figure a nightclub may have a space if inspired by something like the place in Eulmore or something that fits in the game world, but on this one? I suspect you're right about it. And I am surprised people pay that much because I'm not seeing anything on their website that would give a hook over any of the many free venues out there.
And I guess to answer your earlier question. Really, it varies, there's a diversity in the type of RPers and why they RP and why tavern-type RP can be useful and appealing.
I guess I can break it down to 4 basic types (and probably oversimplifying it):
- People who RP because they like to write, they find the game world interesting and it's a collaborative form of writing for them where they develop characters, write plots and so on.
- People who like the game world and try some kind of pseudo-tabletop experience and it'd be like playing Dungeons and Dragons, maybe with their own simplified ruleset for combat
- People who enjoy the social aspect
- People who self insert and their character is an avatar of themselves in that world.
I can give my perspective at least (as they will vary), I consider myself the first. I love the game's lore, I love writing and I love Final Fantasy in general and this exists as a creative outlet.
I like the social aspect too and you make friends doing it. And I blur into the second point when running plots because you need a system to resolve situation situations especially combat. Though the approach I use is less tabletop inspired but more I'll write combat based on certain mechanics and the reward/outcome is based on how characters react to those mechanics and I will throw in extra points for creativity.
There's other aspects to enjoy. The tavern concept is a good place to meet other players, see how well your characters meld. But it can also be slice-of-life and character development can happen in these social interactions. And the "slice-of-life" genre has a following, so you'll have people who will RP it. You'll find RP for every kind of genre.
You also get people who RP entertainers, which will show up at taverns and other social events, one of my characters is one. But people do some cool stuff with it, we of course know about the bard performance feature, which is one avenue. There's people who write whole dance routines to music. People who write songs in time to music. There's storytellers (which is something I do) and even plays & some of those plays are well done given the tools available. -
03-09-2021, 01:28 AMLianaThorneKind of tangenting a little but while we're talking about paying in gil while at RP venues, I personally have never been to one that DOESN'T make you pay with real gil. If "free" venues exist, they are few and far between. I've seen prices ranging from 3k-500k+ for certain services (not including ERP cause that's a whole other beast). I consider myself to be well off in the game and don't mind spreading the gil around, but asking for 500k for unlimited fake drinks for the night is robbery. Just being honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saefinn
I also feel that a lot of people are getting into running venues because of how much gil people do make if their venue is popular, like without even having any love for roleplay at all. It's kind of sad/gross in my opinion to profit off a community you don't even recognize yourself as part of. But that's just my take on it. -
03-09-2021, 01:53 AMKeramory
My experience at these nightclubs/tavern:
Barkeep: Yeah it'll be 5k for our special cocktail
Me: Okay. *trades 5k for... an apple juice?* Da heck? -
03-09-2021, 02:41 AMSaefinnI see you're on Aether and OP is on Primal. This could explain it. I'm on Crystal and Crystal houses Balmung, which has always been the "defacto" RP server (except back in 1.0 when it was Besaid before it merged) and it has spread out to other servers on the data center like Mateus and Zalera. So the core of the RP community is here. Which I guess means you're much more likely to find venues who do it for the sake of RP.Quote:
Originally Posted by LianaThorne
My guess then is people on other data centres realised you can make money off of RP venues? Which makes me wonder if it's legit RP too, because it sounds like RP as a means to an end.
But this may explain why in the space of the last year or so we've been seeing more people trying to pay us real gil at our FC's tavern night, we ended up putting a disclaimer on our menu. It makes me wonder then if there are some that charge on my data centre too.
But I agree, it's robbery. Heck, 300k for a chance to win a mogstation item feels steep to me. I can understand maybe paying something for a chance to win.
However, every one that I've attended in all my years on Balmung I've never been charged for a drink with real gil. I suppose if people figure out you can make money, there's somebody out there to exploit it and it's harder to exploit on a server/datacentre where there's people already doing it for free because they're in it for the RP.
But again, I can understand an immersion thing, but I'd maybe expect up to 500gil max so that's it an inconsequential amount. But 5k for an apple juice, 10k for a steak, 500k all you can drink. It's a bit much. -
03-09-2021, 02:48 AMLianaThorneYeahhhhhhhh, Aether's RP scene is full on "pay real gil or get out". Actually had someone that used to be a friend tell me his FC wanted to open an RP venue solely for the purpose of making easy gil because his members were too lazy to make it any other way. Most likely gonna involve ERP in it because, of course. As far as I know of they haven't opened yet but are in the midst of getting their estate ready. It's just...*sigh*.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saefinn
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03-09-2021, 02:57 AMSaefinnOh jeez, that sounds dire then, it can't be very good RP if people see it as a lazy way to make money. Makes sense how I saw some people compare RP ads in the PF to gil & content run sellers. I mean, I knew that people selling ERP was a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by LianaThorne
My "lazy" method is map parties. It's easy money when you've got a group of you. -
03-09-2021, 03:18 AMKeramoryOld man here, so I don't know if this is an okay question for 2021, but does anyone who ERP ever question exactly this? That probably the cat girl in a swimsuit dancing is just some dude behind the monitor trying to get quick cash? Does that bother people? After several nights of spending alone time with the Au'ra named Candy, how would you feel if one day you just get a message of "Btw my name's Frank". Do you then question things about yourself? Just seems like opening yourself up to some weird times.Quote:
Originally Posted by LianaThorne
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03-09-2021, 03:24 AMTheodricIs it really so profitable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Keramory
I'm half tempted to remodel my mansion in Lavender Beds and open it up as a restaurant. I could use more gil for Endwalker. :p
Back when I role-played, any monetary exchanges were done through emotes as it was seen as unfair and predatory to exchange actual money when everything else was 'playing pretend'. How times change, I guess... -
03-09-2021, 03:26 AMArchpoet
I’ve sat patiently and respectfully by, all the while maintaining a professional demeanor, as this community has alternated back and forth between defending our right to exist and tearing us apart for our supposed depravity. Some of you have posted well thought out responses both for and against the RP venue concept, for and against posting about it in General Discussion, posting about it period, and all in between.
Further, some would suspect a nefarious scheme behind the scenes in the RP venue community at large, or at the Ruby specifically. To those, I would say this:
We decided early on that, any personal feelings aside, ERP did not belong in an upscale establishment such as we were planning the Royal Ruby to be. And in the planning stage, we did a lot of very recent research into other venues, their offerings, menu, pricing and presentation, and we adjusted ours accordingly so as to be commensurate of the highest quality RP immersive experience that we could possibly offer as a nightclub and fine dining restaurant. Additionally, our raffles are not RNG based insomuch that every night we have a raffle, someone wins. Yes, you enter for a chance to win, but it is not further limited by having to roll > 95. In this way, it is a true raffle, unlike most other venues, whose raffles are actually lotteries. It is the experience you’re paying for, just like in real life, and the prices are tailored to attract a certain type of customer. Even so, they are market value and in line with several other venues. We’re covering costs, and dividing up the gil between the employees based on hours worked per diem, also like real life. As I said, it’s as professional and immersive as we can make it.
The research and planning paid off in that it allowed us to quickly ingratiate ourselves as a high quality brand to the RP community, and because we actually do deliver a high quality experience, we’ve been very successful at providing an upscale RP venue thus far. After only two nights, we had customers tell us that they’ve “never experienced anything like this anywhere else in the game.” So, then, as in real life, I must insist that you do not call up the 5-star restaurant to tell them that their prix fixe menu prices are too high, because you can get Kobe beef cheaper at Sam’s Club— it lacks tact.
For those of a mind to, I invite you to suspend your incredulity, your disbelief, your judgements, and imagine with me that the RP venue community is more than RP prostitution, and gil laundering and racketeering fronts for the RP Mafia, and that it can definitely legitimately exist outside of the Crystal/Aether* datacenter, and outside of all of your expectations. -
03-09-2021, 04:28 AMSaefinnThere's more than one type of ERPer. What you're thinking of would be on the cybersex end of things, where both parties are playing an avatar of themselves, so they're making the connection with the play. But I guess it would be more like it is with internet dating, if you're getting intimate with somebody you expect them to be honest, but people aren't always and is why cat fishing on dating sites is a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keramory
But it's not all cybersex. Generally when it comes to roleplay, whether ERP or regular RP a lot of people will have divide between themselves and their character, because they're writing a character and not inserting themselves into a character (I realise my phrasing here is unfortunate) by which point it's more like writing & reading erotica.
As you claim "the highest immersive experience", I feel like that opens me up to be more nitpicky, as a lore conscious RPer who not only runs a venue, but attends many, sees people's IC prices and has been a very active member for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archpoet
I feel like how pricing is approached would reduce the immersive experience. They feel really high for Eorzean standards. The most expensive steak you can buy from a vendor is less than 500gil.
I get that kobe beef can be extremely expensive. But it's not kobe beef you're selling, it's dzo steak you're selling. Kobe beef is expensive because of how the cows are bred and raised. Dzo are free roaming and live in abundance on the Azim steppe and they're huge animals with a lot of meat. They're not an expensive animal, else the Xaela of the Azim steppe would be rich.
But you're doing 5 star Gourmet, so it'd be fair to price it higher. Looking online, I can get one for £40 at one of Gordon Ramsay's restaurants. A local restaurant to me sells steak for £12. So I'd probably expect your mark up to be closer to what a Gordan Ramsay restaurant would serve or other pricey restaurants, as opposed to kobe beef prices.
And taking it a step further, it requires real gil. The issue with that, hypothetically speak, what if I was playing a filthy rich character who buys the everybody at the bar a drink? But as a player I only have 50,000 gil? I am restricted as to what I can do.
So you can see why this feels very alien and suspect and maybe even exploitative to me.
I feel like going by other people's experiences listed here that your market research is based on other RP venues seeing RP as a means to make money. It's your prerogative, but it feels wrong to me to turn RP into a means of making bank instead of doing it for the RP. And on a data centre or server where it seems there's not a lot compared to say, Balmung, it feels exploitative. I'd probably encourage any serious RPers on those data centres to come to Crystal. We have lots of venues where people offer great immersive experiences without charging. -
03-09-2021, 04:55 AMLianaThorneI assume you mean the kind of customer that happens to have a lot of gil if you're charging a 300k to participate in a raffle (please keep in mind that the majority of players in FF don't have over 2m gil at any one point so you're potentially robbing someone of a good chunk of their savings) and upwards of 10k for a steak that will ultimately go to waste unless said person leaves right away to go make use of the buffs it comes with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archpoet
Just to also put it in perspective, the best food you can get in the game for legitimate purposes doesn't even come close to the price you're putting on them per serving. You're overpricing by half or more than half. So, saying you're pricing by market value is a bit of stretch when it comes to your menu.
Edit: Actually decided to look at Primal's market prices because I don't like to talk without having proof and yeah, you're overpricing by WAY more than half for your 10k drink (cheapest is 1.5k per at the moment for HQ). Trying to say you're going off market value is a legit lie now.
You can say you're trying to capitalize off the rich people, it's not a big deal. It's just awkward when you say "a certain type" when it's obvious with what you're asking for/what your website shows on the menu and is a part of what makes me question your motives. Also, your VIP service is 100k, you're not hiding it at all (and yes, I also think that's robbery charging people 100k for items they could literally get for 90% cheaper off the MB).
Also, legitimate question, what do you think you're offering to deserve someone to drop at least 400k on your venue in a night? I love to go out to venues with my boyfriend and blow gil but if you're asking for me to drop that much, what sets you apart from the other 10+ venues that are also upscale and do the same thing that you do? -
03-09-2021, 06:37 AMZomkei
Goodness. 300k for a raffle and 100k a month for a ... 3 course virtual meal? I'm very much for RP and RP venues, but this seems highly over priced. You better be giving a stack of HQ current tier raid food for that price lol.
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03-09-2021, 06:46 AMArchpoetYou are confused as to the meaning of this phrase. It is not market value as in the item's value on the Market Board, it is market value relative to the prices charged by other venues of our caliber in our locale, (in this case datacenter).Quote:
Originally Posted by LianaThorne
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03-09-2021, 07:17 AMNothv13Not going to lie, you are starting to sound like some of the owners off of Kitchen Nightmares and I don't mean one of the lovable ones that actually gets it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archpoet
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03-09-2021, 07:32 AMArchpoet
Look, I am not going to justify what are ultimately business decisions based on actual market research (not research on the market board mind you) to the unrestrained gaze of the otherwise untrained public. I went to RP business school here people. And yet, your replies continue to seethe with undue judgement and derision, I mean, just look at the usage of "robbery", and the jokes being made at my expense-- when many of you forget your place, and the active role you take in a consumerist economy.
In my mind, it's simple, go to another venue. -
03-09-2021, 07:35 AMValkyrie_LennethYeah this makes you seem like a troll who found out he could make easy money for his raiding fc by selling to an rp market that isn't very big on their datacenter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archpoet
Note I don't rp and do raid. Your posts just come off as such. -
03-09-2021, 07:39 AMBerryCharlotte"Business decisions" - I don't get it. Accepting tips for a lovely venue or a good night's RP is one thing, but I honestly don't get charging for what amounts to invisible, unreal RP food. I myself run a bakery/patisserie venue on Balmung and wouldn't dream of charging people for the invisible food. It's a lot of work, sure, and it took a lot of gil to set the place up just right, but I couldn't even begin to do so. I barely accept people tipping me of their own free will when they've enjoyed themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archpoet
I hope when Data Centre travel's up, people from Primal and Aether can stop by Crystal and maybe non-charging ones can become the norm. -
03-09-2021, 07:47 AMLianaThorneStill have yet to hear what makes your venue/services worth the 400k. So, I hope that everyone does choose to go to another venue for the sake of their wallets and general sanity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archpoet
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03-09-2021, 07:48 AMArchpoetI apologize for that perception. For my part, I am RP-ing the General Manager of this establishment. My posts represent someone struggling to maintain professionalism amid the frustrating ridiculousness that this thread has become. This forum community fancies itself reddit detectives exposing the evil RPers and all their nefarious plots, when in reality they are paragons of toxicity stamping out anything they don't understand or agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
I mean, I call out the judge-y and mocking posts, and somehow now I'm the troll? :rolleyes:
Bottom line: it's hard for anyone RPing on any other datacenter to get a foothold, and this tragic display is one of the primary reasons. -
03-09-2021, 07:49 AMArchpoetYou are mistaken, it is real food. The customers receive actual items.Quote:
Originally Posted by BerryCharlotte
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03-09-2021, 07:51 AMShibiAs opposed to a real life business school?Quote:
Originally Posted by Archpoet
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03-09-2021, 07:53 AMArchpoetGlad someone caught that. I sure needed the levity, I hope you did too! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibi