What/Who will be the 6.0 expansion final boss? And what about the raid bosses?

I'm guessing that we're going to fight the Lunar bosses in the raid and the final boss would be Fandaniel or Zodiark. As for the 6.0 MSQ, my guess is Lunar Dragon/Bahamut or something else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

^This, although given the obvious FFIV parallels with EW I'm expecting Fandangle to be unceremoniously disposed of as aether for Zodiark as a sacrifice, which Zenos then assimilates into, and becomes a bizzare callback to Zeromous/Zemus in FFIV (I would be very disappointed if SE doesn't go for an easy pun and call his 'assimilated' form something like 'Zenus', 'Zenomous' or 'Zenoark' ;)).

But yeah it's definetely clear SE are planning for a Zenos/Zodiark combination to be the final boss. The after credits stinger scene way back at the end of SHB's 5.0 story made that pretty clear.

---

Ugh, this would put me off greatly. I really don't like Zenos as a villain and for Zodiark to be tainted with Zenos would be most upsetting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Why would it be a let down? If anything it’d have more payoff in the end with us being Azem and finally getting to meet and draw upon Zodiark whereas Hydaelyn has been shady for awhile no and it wouldn’t be surprising for her to end up being evil and or taken over by zenos

---

Because Zenos is one of the most cliche and uninteresting villains in FF14. Even Lahabrea had more personality and backstory than Zenos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SecretIsland

Because Zenos is one of the most cliche and uninteresting villains in FF14. Even Lahabrea had more personality and backstory than Zenos.

---

That’s why i’d rather him take over Hydaelyn, someone who’s pretty boring and dull like him over Zodiark who has potential lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AncientWillow

You aware they said they trying to be orginal this time right.
Also Anima and towns are basically going to be ff10 themed tbh

---

I'm not so certain that the expansion is going to be FFX themed. Remember we just had the WOL turn from Dark Knight to Paladin, he's traveling with the healer and DPS caster jobs, we're getting the lunar whale mount, and we're going to the moon... that's all pretty strong allusions to FFIV. So if I had to guess, I could see a situation wherein there's some combination of Zodiark and Xenos becoming Zeromus.

That said, many of the expansions take elements from multiple games as reference. Stormblood had some strong FFVI vibes with Castrum Abania being a reference to the Magitek Research Facility. And the story of stopping the flood of light being similar to the backstory in FFIII. They do this without the final big baddie actually being from the game the expansion references, so there's no way to really tell based off the clues we have so far except to say that it definitely WONT be Anima as the final boss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wereotter

I'm not so certain that the expansion is going to be FFX themed. Remember we just had the WOL turn from Dark Knight to Paladin, he's traveling with the healer and DPS caster jobs, we're getting the lunar whale mount, and we're going to the moon... that's all pretty strong allusions to FFIV. So if I had to guess, I could see a situation wherein there's some combination of Zodiark and Xenos becoming Zeromus.

That said, many of the expansions take elements from multiple games as reference. Stormblood had some strong FFVI vibes with Castrum Abania being a reference to the Magitek Research Facility. And the story of stopping the flood of light being similar to the backstory in FFV. They do this without the final big baddie actually being from the game the expansion references, so there's no way to really tell based off the clues we have so far except to say that it definitely WONT be Anima as the final boss.

---

I doubt they’d go with something so obvious. Yoshi P said in an interview he wanted to subvert expectations, he knows the playerbase isn’t dumb and expects zenos to take over zodiark and for us to assume zeromus will be a part of it. I personally expect there to be a twist and he actually goes after hydaelyn instead while the WoL(WoD) goes after Zodiark. It would be an interesting contrast going from drk to paladin (dark to light) but ending up switching to the dark primal instead of the obvious light one.

Zeromus will be the final boss. It will be Zodiark and Zenos combined.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Why would it be a let down?

---

Because the WoL has always been working with Hydaelyn.

Quote:

---

If anything it’d have more payoff in the end with us being Azem and finally getting to meet and draw upon Zodiark whereas Hydaelyn has been shady for awhile no and it wouldn’t be surprising for her to end up being evil and or taken over by zenos

---

The WoL is not Azem, and Azem had no dealing with Zodiark as far as I know, so there is no set up there for a payoff.

Also, if Zenos knows about the WoL's connection with Hydaelyn, then he would not choose to go after Hydaelyn as he wants to fight the WoL at their best.

It's goanna be Rowena. With all the power she has from us collecting tomestones over many expansions, she has obtained too much power over the economy and ancient knowledge. As the ShB Relics hinted, the first ones to go will be the Crafter and Artisans, replaced by Allagan Nodes to do their craftsmanship in Mor Dhona. The craftsmans all over the world will rebel from the lack of scrips since Rowena will only accept HQ goods in bulk and Rowena will have to take measures into her own hands at that point.

I'm only half joking btw. I can see this happen in a sidequest storyline though, where the assistants get drunk off of allagan power.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linayar

Because the WoL has always been working with Hydaelyn.

The WoL is not Azem, and Azem had no dealing with Zodiark as far as I know, so there is no set up there for a payoff.

Also, if Zenos knows about the WoL's connection with Hydaelyn, then he would not choose to go after Hydaelyn as he wants to fight the WoL at their best.

---

....what? WoL is Azem. And we know there is a connection between us and zodiark all the way back in ARR when he gave us a brief echo vision of him. Also with everything we’ve learned recently and with the shady stuff it seems hydaelyn is a part of, Azem(WoL) seems to be taking the remembrance of the ancients over Hydaelyn.Hell, just look at the Endwalkers trailer where it has WoL as an Elidibus stand-in on the moon.

Consider it 'payoff' to the plot of the ancients and the remembrance theme, and the promise to Emet and the as yet undisclosed identity of the person Elidibus swore his oath to, quite likely to be Azem. The WoL may not be Azem but the remembrance theme is there.

Azem had no dealing with Venat's faction either.

Frankly I consider the 'payoff' arguments to be rather weak as an excuse not to subvert expectations. Just because Zenos hatched some half baked plan doesn't mean it's going to go exactly that way.

WoL 'always' working with Hydaelyn doesn't rule out there being false pretences in the relationship - we already know there are, and 5.2 has raised further questions about it. It's a case of whether there's yet more to it. They can generate 'payoff' with any number of possible outcomes.

I hope it is NOT Zodiark. Or the Sound. Or Hydaelyn. Or any other god monster.

I will be fine with Zenos being the final boss (PLEASE don't turn into a god monster!)

It'll be something involving Zodiark. I find the theory of 'WoL suddenly goes with Zodiark' to be silly considering we spend the entirety of ARR, HW, SB and ShB's foiling the plots to bring Zodiark back. Also, isn't Hydaelyn already supposed to be pretty much gone? Hell, she needed Minfilia as a host because she'd lost most of her strength.. she couldn't even shield the WoL from a second round of Ultima in the Praetorium because she hadn't the strength. I was under the impression everything with Hydaelyn had been tied up in ShB, with the final death of Minfilia and Ryne becoming her own person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lanadra

It'll be something involving Zodiark. I find the theory of 'WoL suddenly goes with Zodiark' to be silly considering we spend the entirety of ARR, HW, SB and ShB's foiling the plots to bring Zodiark back. Also, isn't Hydaelyn already supposed to be pretty much gone? Hell, she needed Minfilia as a host because she'd lost most of her strength.. she couldn't even shield the WoL from a second round of Ultima in the Praetorium because she hadn't the strength. I was under the impression everything with Hydaelyn had been tied up in ShB, with the final death of Minfilia and Ryne becoming her own person.

---

I don’t see how it’s silly really. We do that not so much because him being back could be necessarily bad, but because the methods used to bring him back are considered “bad”. They could easily make it so we have no other choice but to go to Zodiark. As for Hydaelyn, just because ryne/minfilia is gone doesn’t mean she is. She lasted fine in post arr after ultima before minfilia became word of the mother, and we see in 5.3 that she’s still alive and kicking, just on what appears to be on auto pilot but she’s still very much alive.

Yep and that's also before Midgadsormr suppressed the Blessing for a while so the MC could strengthen a bit and not tax her all the time, so the Blessing is drawn upon more sparingly. One can find such possibilities as "silly" as they like but clever writing can push it in either direction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

....what? WoL is Azem.

---

WoL is a sundered incarnation of Azem, not Azem.

Quote:

---

And we know there is a connection between us and zodiark all the way back in ARR when he gave us a brief echo vision of him.

---

That is not a connection, and even if it was, we still have a bigger connection with Hydaelyn.

Quote:

---

Also with everything we’ve learned recently and with the shady stuff it seems hydaelyn is a part of, Azem(WoL) seems to be taking the remembrance of the ancients over Hydaelyn.Hell, just look at the Endwalkers trailer where it has WoL as an Elidibus stand-in on the moon.

---

What shady stuff are you talking about? And being on the moon does not make the WoL an Elidibus stand-in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lauront

Azem had no dealing with Venat's faction either.

---

Right, but the WoL does have dealings with Hydaelyn, again showing that the WoL is not Azem.

Quote:

---

Frankly I consider the 'payoff' arguments to be rather weak as an excuse not to subvert expectations. Just because Zenos hatched some half baked plan doesn't mean it's going to go exactly that way.

---

Subverting expectation is a bad excuse to not have a payoff to the end of a 10-year running storyline.

Quote:

---

WoL 'always' working with Hydaelyn doesn't rule out there being false pretences in the relationship - we already know there are, and 5.2 has raised further questions about it. It's a case of whether there's yet more to it. They can generate 'payoff' with any number of possible outcomes.

---

Do we know there are false pretenses? What are they and do they negatively affect our current good relationship with Hydaelyn?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lanadra

It'll be something involving Zodiark. I find the theory of 'WoL suddenly goes with Zodiark' to be silly considering we spend the entirety of ARR, HW, SB and ShB's foiling the plots to bring Zodiark back. Also, isn't Hydaelyn already supposed to be pretty much gone? Hell, she needed Minfilia as a host because she'd lost most of her strength.. she couldn't even shield the WoL from a second round of Ultima in the Praetorium because she hadn't the strength. I was under the impression everything with Hydaelyn had been tied up in ShB, with the final death of Minfilia and Ryne becoming her own person.

---

I don't think it's silly at all if you see as yin and yang, which there is a lot of imagery for it as well as a sort of philosophical standing Yoshida has said he personally holds. To be clear I don't think I've ever heard him say explicit yin yang stuff, but the general concept of balance fits well within that and the imagery is starting to look like that.

If Hydaelyn is mother then Zodiark may as well be father. The imagery on a concept art holds decently well to this. The actions of each 'primal' have also loosely been in the line of chaos (freedom, don't read chaos as evil or whatever lol- in this situation it's not) and order, both of which have consequences at their extremes (and each person may have a bias to which extreme they'd like to be, but I think most would ask for balance of both). This is then where I note on multiple occasions Yoshida has mentioned the importance of balance, things going too far, extremes, and the differences between history written by the victors vs those who did not win.

In such a way neither are really evil as much as they're ideas- which is what primals have always been anyways. So if we do use or get help from Zodiark it's not because suddenly Hydaelyn is evil (especially if Zenos has decided to slurp her up), it also doesn't suddenly make everything Zodiark has represented and done as purely good (by receiving his help you're not like "why yes I too also think we should restore ascian power and down with the low blood races"). There is a lot of stuff they could do for the end thoughts but if they're actually closing the whole chapter I imagine Zodiark and Hydaelyn are going to become one (and or perhaps begin to decay together returning their energy to the life stream).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

I hope it is NOT Zodiark. Or the Sound. Or Hydaelyn. Or any other god monster.

I will be fine with Zenos being the final boss (PLEASE don't turn into a god monster!)

---

I would be disappointed if it was Zenos, at least as himself. Zenos... Agaaaainnn?

Much rather a god monster where the visual spectacle can be out of this world. They will need to go back down a bit in scale for the next expansion otherwise it'll be ever growing issue but.. for the finale of multiple expansions they decide to just do "zenos"? That'd be a huge let down. I'm full expecting full on gross use of budget on scale of fight to represent the end of the saga. Anything low key for the end is going to be a let down, imo.

God monster eeeverryyy singgleee expansionn with ever growing concerns can certainly get tiring but this is the finale, I'm sorry but anything but grandiose for the finale is like a weak firework fizzling out lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

I don't think it's silly at all if you see as yin and yang, which there is a lot of imagery for it as well as a sort of philosophical standing Yoshida has said he personally holds. To be clear I don't think I've ever heard him say explicit yin yang stuff, but the general concept of balance fits well within that and the imagery is starting to look like that.

If Hydaelyn is mother then Zodiark may as well be father. The imagery on a concept art holds decently well to this. The actions of each 'primal' have also loosely been in the line of chaos (freedom, don't read chaos as evil or whatever lol- in this situation it's not) and order, both of which have consequences at their extremes (and each person may have a bias to which extreme they'd like to be, but I think most would ask for balance of both). This is then where I note on multiple occasions Yoshida has mentioned the importance of balance, things going too far, extremes, and the differences between history written by the victors vs those who did not win.

In such a way neither are really evil as much as they're ideas- which is what primals have always been anyways. So if we do use or get help from Zodiark it's not because suddenly Hydaelyn is evil (especially if Zenos has decided to slurp her up), it also doesn't suddenly make everything Zodiark has represented and done as purely good (by receiving his help you're not like "why yes I too also think we should restore ascian power and down with the low blood races"). There is a lot of stuff they could do for the end thoughts but if they're actually closing the whole chapter I imagine Zodiark and Hydaelyn are going to become one (and or perhaps begin to decay together returning their energy to the life stream).

---

So, first things first, I don't know how the ending will turn out, which excites me even more.

That said, what I have a problem with is people wanting Zenos to go after Hydaelyn and forcing us to go after Zodiark. That, to me, doesn't make any sense if Zenos knows of our association with Hydaelyn. He wants to fight against us, not take over our source of power (at least one of).

Also, while I'm aware of the idea of balance, Hydaelyn was summoned to keep Zodiark in check. Which means, unless they merge or are both destroyed, balance in this case means Hydaelyn being strong enough to do exactly what she was summoned to do, especially since Zodiark being stronger potentially means the deaths of existing lives. So if balance is the ideal, and Zenos as the antagonist wants to destroy that balance, then he would go after Zodiark to stand against the combined force of Hydaelyn-WoL.

Subverting expectations only works if the subversion is at least as interesting, preferably MORE interesting, than the expectation.

Having it be just Zenos would be boring IMO. I don't want it to be a mindless monster with no personality, but they also shouldn't go against expectations of having a big fancy final fight like they normally do just for the sake of subversion.

Unless said final fight is a 'victory lap' fight where the level 90 trial is a big battle and then there's an instanced 1 on 1 fight after. Like Cloud's final duel with Sephiroth at the end of FFVII or in a sense the easier Lahabrea fight at the end of Praetorium but without having party members around.

Personally I've never found Hydaelyn to be sympathetic or trustworthy. She's responsible for the current state of the world - which the writer's themselves, in interviews, have claimed to be a bad thing. She sought to hide the truth of the world's origins, completely snuff out the memories and lives of a proud and ancient race. She claims to love 'all' of her children, yet only saved the one that benefitted her when the Isle of Val was plunged into the Lifestream. Namely Krile. She had another of her 'blessed' sacrifice themselves to be her puppet in the form of Minfilia. Who was depicted as being bound in thorny chains in one of the art pieces for a content patch...

For a while, a lot of her fans were convinced that she was some sort of benevolent goddess guiding the Warrior of Light to always do good. The game has actively embraced nuance and hammered home the fact that Light is not always good and Dark is not always bad.

I still remember someone making a thread on the lore forum speculating, long before Shadowbringers, that Hydaelyn might be a Primal. That poster received a lot of bile and smug mockery because that could never be the case, supposedly. Then 5.0 came and revealed the theory to be correct.

In short, maybe it's best to be cautious with absolutes?

I'd also note that neither Hydaelyn or Zodiark currently appear on the character popularity lists in any region. The likes of Emet and Zenos, however...do. With that in mind, there's a good chance both Hydaelyn and Zodiark will 'just' be Primals and little else when we confront them directly or they're dealt with off screen.

But, yeah...of the two, Zodiark made a genuine attempt to save his world. Hydaelyn simply destroyed it. Through malice, incompetence and/or subversion. I don't consider her to be a heroic figure. Tragic, perhaps - especially if a third party is involved and misled her somehow. Part of me is expecting some sort of Jenova like entity to be involved if that's the case. Amaurot's illusion/remains happened to be located on a coral sea bed, much like the City of the Ancients in FF7 after all. Perhaps the references will go further and it'll turn out that the Ancients were turned against each other for the benefit of a manipulative parasite from outer space.

It is a Final Fantasy game/JRPG after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Personally I've never found Hydaelyn to be sympathetic or trustworthy. She's responsible for the current state of the world - which the writer's themselves, in interviews, have claimed to be a bad thing. She sought to hide the truth of the world's origins, completely snuff out the memories and lives of a proud and ancient race. She claims to love 'all' of her children, yet only saved the one that benefitted her when the Isle of Val was plunged into the Lifestream. Namely Krile. She had another of her 'blessed' sacrifice themselves to be her puppet in the form of Minfilia. Who was depicted as being bound in thorny chains in one of the art pieces for a content patch...

For a while, a lot of her fans were convinced that she was some sort of benevolent goddess guiding the Warrior of Light to always do good. The game has actively embraced nuance and hammered home the fact that Light is not always good and Dark is not always bad.

I still remember someone making a thread on the lore forum speculating, long before Shadowbringers, that Hydaelyn might be a Primal. That poster received a lot of bile and smug mockery because that could never be the case, supposedly. Then 5.0 came and revealed the theory to be correct.

In short, maybe it's best to be cautious with absolutes?

I'd also note that neither Hydaelyn or Zodiark currently appear on the character popularity lists in any region. The likes of Emet and Zenos, however...do. With that in mind, there's a good chance both Hydaelyn and Zodiark will 'just' be Primals and little else when we confront them directly or they're dealt with off screen.

---

I don't think you have to go to absolutes to still see Hydaelyn as an ally. Yes, she is a primal, and so it's not like she doesn't have her own prerogatives. But, in the grand scheme of what we know the Ascians are trying to make Zodiark do, Hydaelyn should still be the WoL's preference. That doesn't mean the WoL is totally dependent on her, as the WoL still lives his life without actively seeking guidance from Hydaelyn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linayar

So, first things first, I don't know how the ending will turn out, which excites me even more.

That said, what I have a problem with is people wanting Zenos to go after Hydaelyn and forcing us to go after Zodiark. That, to me, doesn't make any sense if Zenos knows of our association with Hydaelyn. He wants to fight against us, not take over our source of power (at least one of).

Also, while I'm aware of the idea of balance, Hydaelyn was summoned to keep Zodiark in check. Which means, unless they merge or are both destroyed, balance in this case means Hydaelyn being strong enough to do exactly what she was summoned to do, especially since Zodiark being stronger potentially means the deaths of existing lives. So if balance is the ideal, and Zenos as the antagonist wants to destroy that balance, then he would go after Zodiark to stand against the combined force of Hydaelyn-WoL.

---

I think if you sit on the second sentence longer it might feel better. Zenos goes after our power source. That's quite logical. Then we've got to rush and make it happen because Zodiark is Kefka'ing about the landscape. Although I wouldn't say going for easier power first isn't a bad idea (either way I honestly feel like "yeah sure okay", if he went after our source vs if he found his own first). Maybe there is personal joy out of stealing ours first. Perhaps if goes after Zodiark first it stirs Hydaelyn more, so by keeping her more dossil he can detach and claim her first (over waking up the mothership entirely who then automatically looks to us to be her champion).

As for the third section true that it could be totally different, I'm just spitballing the twist because I personally do not find good vs evil very fascinating as I don't think it represents most situations (I mean there are of course people who've got a screw loose and just really don't and cannot care about others, but that's not the norm). They're palpable stories but it's just not super interesting, to myself (so I am purposefully trying to find means to mess that up). But lets go on that line, so say Hydaelyn was made to keep Zodiark in check- right, right. How do you keep order in check? Chaos (freedom), which also goes inline that she has the power to divide (while Zodiark has the power to make things whole). That she was made to counter Zodiark doesn't really disrupt my suggestion that they may represent greater concepts than Zodiark bad and Hydaelyn is simply anti-zodiark. Then on Zenos, well I think Zenos is literally one of those screw loose people lol (which is probably why he isn't my favorite enemy)- so it really doesn't matter to Zenos about balance, the dude has been pretty frank to us in what he enjoys about life and right now he wants to make us dance with him. If anything he might find it more enjoyable that he takes our mother and we have to join with Zodiark (father) in order to compete. It also might offer decent imagery as we in effect have to choose between saving everything or not beating up 'mother'. Like if some poltergeist took the body of a loved one and began to cause massive issues, do you stop it or do you bend knee?

As for the first section, it really could go any which way at the end lol- that is interesting (and good)! I only imagine that they both go into an eternal rest as a way to set up an entire new saga, but it is not needed to do that so maybe not (I'm definitely not certain on any outcome).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

Zenos goes after our power source. That's quite logical.

---

It's not logical given what we know of Zenos's character and his purpose to fight us.

Quote:

---

As for the third section true that it could be totally different, I'm just spitballing the twist because I personally do not find good vs evil very fascinating as I don't think it represents most situations (I mean there are of course people who've got a screw loose and just really don't and cannot care about others, but that's not the norm). They're palpable stories but it's just not super interesting, to myself (so I am purposefully trying to find means to mess that up). But lets go on that line, so say Hydaelyn was made to keep Zodiark in check- right, right. How do you keep order in check? Chaos (freedom). That she was made to counter Zodiark doesn't really disrupt my suggestion that they may represent greater concepts than Zodiark bad and Hydaelyn is simply anti-zodiark. Then on Zenos, well I think Zenos is literally one of those screw loose people lol- so it really doesn't matter to Zenos about balance, the dude has been pretty frank to us in what he enjoys about life and right now he wants to make us dance with him. IF anything he might find it more enjoyable that he takes our mother and we have to join with Zodiark (father) in order to compete. It also might offer decent imagery as we in effect have to choose between saving everything or not beating up 'mother'. Like if some poltergeist took the body of a loved one and began to cause massive issues, do you stop it or do you bend knee?

---

You don't even need to frame it as good vs evil if you don't want to. We still have two opposing sides.

My point is that the WoL is connected with Hydaelyn. So if Zenos goes after one of them (Hydaelyn or Zodiark), and again, we don't even know if that's where they're going with the story, then it would make more sense for him to go after Zodiark.

Zenos may be unhinged, but he still is consistent with his purpose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linayar

Right, but the WoL does have dealings with Hydaelyn, again showing that the WoL is not Azem.

---

No one has said that they are identical to Azem. They nonetheless harbour a fragment of their soul, and are now learning more of their ancient self. So you're disputing a point that's not even in contention while failing to grasp the significance of the link, all at once.

Quote:

---

Subverting expectation is a bad excuse to not have a payoff to the end of a 10-year running storyline.

---

It's not an "excuse" for anything. It is a potential story direction and a narrow view of "payoff" is not an excuse to limit it. They have set another potential "payoff" and that is seeing to the final wish of the ancients.

Quote:

---

Okay. Do we know there are false pretenses? What are they and do they negatively affect our current good relationship with Hydaelyn?

---

Yes, we have been directly shown they are false pretences. The biggest is that her account of the origin of the world is simply false, for one. For another, the calling from her is nothing special but the result of an automated process. She did not reveal the true origin or nature of the Ascians. Elidibus further gave an indication that it is her and her summoners' intention to conceal the truth of the ancient world at the end of 5.0, a theme that runs counter to the remembrance one now taking place. There may be forthcoming justifications as to why, e.g. she may not simply be privy to such knowledge as a Primal, but it unravels the notion of any special connection to her. Out of necessity the MC has drawn on her power, but they also lacked a full picture of what was going on.

You can continue "having a problem" with what others want, I suppose, albeit it's not really going to make much of a difference to what I want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linayar

I don't think you have to go to absolutes to still see Hydaelyn as an ally. Yes, she is a primal, and so it's not like she doesn't have her own prerogatives. But, in the grand scheme of what we know the Ascians are trying to make Zodiark do, Hydaelyn should still be the WoL's preference. That doesn't mean the WoL is totally dependent on her, as the WoL still lives his life without actively seeking guidance from Hydaelyn.

---

Unless the singular Ascian pursuing chaos for its own sake surmises that she might be a better target to focus his attention on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linayar

It's not logical given what we know of Zenos's character and his purpose to fight us.

You don't even need to frame it as good vs evil if you don't want to. We still have two opposing sides.

My point is that the WoL is connected with Hydaelyn. So if Zenos goes after one of them (Hydaelyn or Zodiark), and again, we don't even know if that's where they're going with the story, then it would make more sense for him to go after Zodiark.

Zenos may be unhinged, but he still is consistent with his purpose.

---

How is it not? The dude just wants epic fights, lol- I'd like to see a parody of him doing 'gamer' talk like some toxic kid XD.....

Anyway- Goes after Hydaelyn, causes the hero distress, now the hero has to fight his own mother (sort of). Hero is forced to seek out Zodiark, which Zenos may actually be fine with and just wait (because epic fightz brah).

Maximum damage both emotionally and physically while still allowing for the fight of all time.

It's not like Zenos prays to the shrine of Zodiark (of course he wants more and more power, but going after Hydaelyn is still power). Also consider that Hydaelyn has once won against Zodiark already, honestly if I had to pick my power source at this point I'd be picking Hydaelyn because Zodiark has already lost once. Why is it logical for Zenos to bet on the losing horse? Doesn't matter if I was on the good side or not, Hydaelyn has proven herself once already. Logically you'd pick the winning horse for your power (which also happens to damage your enemy in a 'wonderful' way, if you're into emotional damage).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

How is it not? The dude just wants epic fights, lol- I'd like to see a parody of him doing 'gamer' talk like some toxic kid XD.....

Anyway- Goes after Hydaelyn, causes the hero distress, now the hero has to fight his own mother (sort of). Hero is forced to seek out Zodiark, which Zenos may actually be fine with and just wait (because epic fightz brah).

Maximum damage both emotionally and physically while still allowing for the fight of all time.

It's not like Zenos prays to the shrine of Zodiark (of course he wants more and more power, but going after Hydaelyn is still power). Also consider that Hydaelyn has once won against Zodiark already, honestly if I had to pick my power source at this point I'd be picking Hydaelyn because Zodiark has already lost once. Why is it logical for Zenos to bet on the losing horse? Doesn't matter if I was on the good side or not, Hydaelyn has proven herself once already. Logically you'd pick the winning horse for your power (which also happens to damage your enemy in a 'wonderful' way, if you're into emotional damage).

---

This is exactly it! Hydaelyn has more power, so why wouldn’t Zenos go after her instead. If anything it makes more sense for that to happen than to go to extreme lengths to get zodiark.

We don't really know if it would be easier for Fandaniel to go after Zodiark or Hydaelyn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lauront

No one has said that they are identical to Azem. They nonetheless harbour a fragment of their soul, and are now learning more of their ancient self. So you're disputing a point that's not even in contention while failing to grasp the significance of the link, all at once.

---

What I'm disputing is disregarding the WoL's connection with Hydaelyn because of Azem.

Quote:

---

It's not an "excuse" for anything. It is a potential story direction and a narrow view of "payoff" is not an excuse to limit it. They have set another potential "payoff" and that is seeing to the final wish of the ancients.

---

Which ancients? The ones that want to bring back the dead? Because we've rejected that wish in Shadowbringers. Or are they the ones that want to keep the status quo? That's what we have with Hydaelyn.

Quote:

---

Yes, we have been directly shown they are false pretences. The biggest is that her account of the origin of the world is simply false, for one. For another, the calling from her is nothing special but the result of an automated process. She did not reveal the true origin or nature of the Ascians. Elidibus further gave an indication that it is her and her summoners' intention to conceal the truth of the ancient world at the end of 5.0, a theme that runs counter to the remembrance one now taking place. There may be forthcoming justifications as to why, e.g. she may not simply be privy to such knowledge as a Primal, but it unravels the notion of any special connection to her. Out of necessity the MC has drawn on her power, but they also lacked a full picture of what was going on.

---

Our relationship has never been based on Hydaelyn's history. What we do know is that the WoL and the Scions agree with the people who summoned Hydaelyn to keep the existence of the sundered.

Quote:

---

You can continue "having a problem" with what others want, I suppose, albeit it's not really going to make much of a difference to what I want.

---

Obviously.

Quote:

---

Unless the singular Ascian pursuing chaos for its own sake surmises that she might be a better target to focus his attention on.

---

Fandaniel could be an interesting factor, but for now, Fandaniel does what Zenos wants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

How is it not? The dude just wants epic fights, lol-

---

Yes, and he may not get that if he messes with us. He doesn't want to cause us be in distress. He wants us to continue to grow in power while he grows his own way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linayar

Yes, and he may not get that if he messes with us. He doesn't want to cause us be in distress. He wants us to continue to grow in power while he grows his own way.

---

I guess it depends on how much you think he is willing to risk and how much faith he has in us. If he has a lot of faith in us then it would make sense to go through Hydaelyn, if he thinks we're going to fall apart before the tango then I guess not.

I think he likes us quite a bit though and has high expectations of us lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

This is exactly it! Hydaelyn has more power, so why wouldn’t Zenos go after her instead. If anything it makes more sense for that to happen than to go to extreme lengths to get zodiark.

---

Yeah if I was going for "I want to win" then I'd go after Hydaelyn both because it messes with the enemy and also because it appears she's the winner choice. And is already free... haha, as you said having to do work to free Zodiark just so you can then eat him XD.

Fandaniel is the one that approached Zenos, for his own reasons. Whatever Fandaniel's up to I doubt it's all in the service of what Zenos wants, at most what Zenos wants fits into his plans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

This is exactly it! Hydaelyn has more power, so why wouldn’t Zenos go after her instead. If anything it makes more sense for that to happen than to go to extreme lengths to get zodiark.

---

Because Zenos, like an elite raider, doesn't want to make fight easier. If Hydaelyn is stronger and is already with the WoL, that's even less reason for Zenos to break that connection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

I guess it depends on how much you think he is willing to risk and how much faith he has in us. If he has a lot of faith in us then it would make sense to go through Hydaelyn, if he thinks we're going to fall apart before the tango then I guess not.

I think he likes us quite a bit though and has high expectations of us lol.



Yeah if I was going for "I want to win" then I'd go after Hydaelyn both because it messes with the enemy and also because it appears she's the winner choice. And is already free... haha, as you said having to do work to free Zodiark just so you can then eat him XD.

---

Zenos is willing to risk the end of the world for his fight with the WoL. That's how much faith he has in the WoL. But that's not the point as he's trying to defeat the WoL at the WoL's best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Fandaniel is the one that approached Zenos, for his own reasons. Whatever Fandaniel's up to I doubt it's all in the service of what Zenos wants, at most what Zenos wants fits into his plans.

---

More things to look forward to, I hope.

I dont WOL being the one to kill Zodiark.I think Zenos will kill zodiark to absorb its power and be the second last boss we fight.
The last boss is most likely going to be Hydaelyn because if zodiarks power is destroyed there will be no balance between the light and dark and we already know thats not a good thing.
Likely i see the WOL being forced to defy Hydaelyn and destroy her as something in her ideals will conflict somewhere on a moral highground with the WOL.
We also need to think about the fact that ENDwalker is the end of the zodiark/hydaelyn saga.So there is a big question will we finished everything off in 6.0 or will it come to a climax at 6.5 to give way for the next expansion with a hint of some new threat in a cutscene at the end.Im not sure they will want to bring the zodiark/hydaelyn saga to an end at 6.0 and then have the suqsequent patches full of filler story leading up to next expansion.
One possibility is we deal with zenos and zodiark at the end of 6.0 but dont deal with Hydaelyn till 6.5 making her the last trial in the expansion.

Zenos/Zodiark.

Phase 1 = Zenos

Phase 2 = Zodiark