Instead of cutting Ultimate from 5.5 why not cut bozja?

I'd be surprised if it even came out in 6.1 at this point.

You guys do realize there's a frickin' pandemic going on? My god, the entitlement is making my eyes bleed. Honestly, the elites love to cry about casual entitlement and wanting "free handouts", but the whining is just as bad among them as it is among the casual players.

Entitled^^ We are paying for a product, which keeps getting less content overall. Why should we pay for a bad product. You wouldn't eat shitty food would you.

I was looking forward to this ultimate but apparently square thinks my monthly sub money and all my loyalty to this game doesn't matter. It's a huge joke to claim this ultimate is being delayed. No, unless we get 3 ultimates in Endwalker, the 5.5 ultimate is not being delayed - It's cancelled. If they give us anything less than 3, then all they did was cancel the 2nd ShB ultimate and then shamelessly recycle it for the new expansion.

I have zero faith that they will produce three ultimates in Endwalker. None. As far as i'm concerned, this is a cancellation, and it annoys the heck out of me that they give us so much less content for ShB and then even have the NERVE to expect us to give them more money for content we should already be getting.

Why would you expect three Ultimates in one expansion when Stormblood, which didn't have the excuse of a global pandemic breaking the schedule, only had two?

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

You guys do realize there's a frickin' pandemic going on? My god, the entitlement is making my eyes bleed. Honestly, the elites love to cry about casual entitlement and wanting "free handouts", but the whining is just as bad among them as it is among the casual players.

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The pandemic caused a delay. Not a cut in the amount of content we should be getting. No where did Yoshida say they're cutting content due to the pandemic. My god, it's like some here don't even bother to read any announcements.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...807-01-2020%29

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Originally Posted by WoW

The pandemic caused a delay. Not a cut in the amount of content we should be getting. No where did Yoshida say they're cutting content due to the pandemic. My god, it's like some here don't even bother to read any announcements.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...807-01-2020%29

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Indeed. Instead we're getting more recycled old content!

I enjoy Bojza. If they had to cut something it makes more since for them to cut something that only a very small percentage of player would do

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Originally Posted by DoH

You can look on various sites that track achievements to see the numbers. Only about 6% of players have cleared Ultimates, so they’re definitely a small minority of the playerbade.

Interestingly, by comparison, only about 0.1% of players have solo’ed PotD. This means that there’s a lot of folks who want semi-difficult content (Ultimates) but are not good enough / do not have the patience to do actually difficult content (soloing the deep dungeons). And it’s hilarious how salty they are.

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imagine comparing difficult, on-content 8-man raid content with a solo rng fest that forces you to play with an incomplete job.

they're not even remotely similar in terms of the challenges they bring. you know this, of course. but anything to stick it to those damn raiders, amirite?

embarrassing, honestly.

... why not cancel both? :)

I mean, Ultimate doesn't *offend* me the way Bozja does.
But I'd gladly see it cancelled forever if its loss got us something in return that more than 1% of the playerbase even attempted. Even if it's just 2 dungeons per patch again.

They had to choose between content and a expansion that most players will enjoy vs. content that only maybe 2% of players will ever do. I don't know about you, but if we were in the opposite direction (they delayed Endwalker for it) I'd be quite pissed.
Now, to be honest, I still have my complaints about ShB's patches. They sucked in some regards and I felt a lot of things to be easy. So I get it. But you have to look at the bigger picture here.

Technically they should keep updating the ultimates, as it appear a group of tanks cleared it, rendering the both Title and Achievement not so cool after all.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

And you know this how? Because they said so? Do you believe everything you are told?

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Clearly, instead of believing the people who are actually working on the content, we should believe random voices on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

And you know this how? Because they said so? Do you believe anything you are told?

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No, but SE, and Yoshida, have usually been known for their integrity and transparency over the years. More so than most gaming companies (cough, Bethesda, cough). So I'd trust that. Better than being completely cynical and jaded and constantly being paranoid that everyone is lying to me. That's the realm of flat-earthers and moon-landing deniers.

Honestly I'd rather them fix Bozja instead of releasing another ultimate. Relic steps will always be more popular than Ultimates really, especially when the i535 step comes out.

That being said, SE doesn't have any excuses for not having fixed Bozja ages ago, heck they didn't even bother to update it with the i515 relic step.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

Because it's not like all I'm saying is don't believe everything. If you believe my words fine, if you don't I honestly don't care. But where would we be in this world if all of us had the same opinion right? Seems like you forgot all the other mishaps SE has done since the start of 5.0

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So since clearly I forgot, can you list some of these mishaps? Preferably some that aren't a result of a global pandemic breaking the schedule?

Thank you for not at all addressing my question.

They better bring 2 other ultimates in endwalker or else they'll get the shitstorm they deserve.
I'll wait & see ,so i much prefer remaining very calm for now but IF there's no ultimate in 6.3,man it'll be time to unleach the full rage and i know that i'll be far from alone doing it.

Respect the raiders.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

You ever tried talking a corporation into giving more to the workers? It's really not that easy.

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Ofc and i fully see that, yet, Ultimate is something special which creates lots of publicity... this time it wasnt all that well, i guess...

I want the game to cater to me! ME ME ME ME ME!!!

Some of the overreaction and selfishness in this thread is awful. I get being disappointed that some content that you were looking forward to will not be there but please have some perspective...

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Originally Posted by Shin96

Wouldn't do you that favour honey.

Removed content:

- Deep Dungeons
- (Hard) Dungeons
- We used to get 2 dungeons
- Simplified tanks, removed diversity in gameplay
- The second relic step is literally a raid
- Ultimate is gone, so there's that

Might not seem much to you but honestly all of this had value and got thrown out the window. We got Ishgard instead, which is a cool idea but I miss that content.

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Add Hildy and maybe 1-2 trials to that, collab event with more then "talk to an npc, do 50 fates, done" ...i give them the events, ok... yet still, it feels "less"...

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Originally Posted by Steviejd

I want the game to cater to me! ME ME ME ME ME!!!

Some of the overreaction and selfishness in this thread is awful. I get being disappointed that some content that you were looking forward to will not be there but please have some perspective...

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It's a MPK thread it's pretty on brand really

This all but puts the nail in the proverbial coffin that Shadowbringers has, unfortunately, been a severe letdown. At least for me.

Naturally, this is all subjective and others here will feel very differently. However, outside the MSQ, it feels like more and more content has been cut to focus on roleplay additions and other superfluous content that lacks any real longevity. That isn't to say something like say, Ocean Fishing, had any impact on Ultimate. We have no idea of developer crossover when it comes their respective skill sets. That doesn't change the fact, this expansion felt extremely lacking in the battle content department. Between the divisive nature of Bozja, simplification of every job, Deep Dungeon and now Ultimate both getting axed (you're kidding yourself if you think they'll do three in Endwalker.), I can't deny my overall disappointment with Shadowbringers, especially after it started off so strong.

Now I'm left questioning what to even bother doing in FFXIV. Outside of logs are a website we won't discuss, gear is completely meaningless now. So rip the 24 man and any relevance it had. I do have to farm dragons, so I suppose there's that. Outside of Delubrum Savage, Shadowbringers is mostly heading towards a very lengthy content lull.

because the majority of players will do bozja over ultimate as its more accessible.
and besides u probably already knew that..i hope.

can we cut op from the forums

A lot of people were hoping to do ultimate with this gear that we had to put effort into farming and now it's completely useless! Are we just going to forget that?!

Yes, why cut the content that like 5% or less of the game's population will do in favor of content that the majority of the population can do?

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Originally Posted by MPK

A lot of people were hoping to do ultimate with this gear that we had to put effort into farming and now it's completely useless! Are we just going to forget that?!

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It's definitely a shame, but in Stormblood the second Ultimate was in 5.3, so the relic weapon was hardly ready to go there either. It's honestly pretty standard that there's nothing to really use the finished relic on that's new. It's not ideal but nothing new.

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Originally Posted by Tlachtga

imagine comparing difficult, on-content 8-man raid content with a solo rng fest that forces you to play with an incomplete job.

they're not even remotely similar in terms of the challenges they bring. you know this, of course. but anything to stick it to those damn raiders, amirite?

embarrassing, honestly.

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So... I take it someone hasn’t been able to solo PotD and/or HoH yet, but they are nonetheless complaining about a lack of “difficult content”?

Embarrassing, honestly.

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Originally Posted by MPK

A lot of people were hoping to do ultimate with this gear that we had to put effort into farming and now it's completely useless! Are we just going to forget that?!

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You don't get to pull that card when you're simultaneously proposing that other 'filler' content should be cut off instead. You really don't lol

Bozja is fun though i wish ppl would actually use stuff like aetherweaver and items that boost their dps because sometimes the new raid can take 1 hour to run because of low DPS. Bosses have some insane HP in there.

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

Yes, why cut the content that like 5% or less of the game's population will do in favor of content that the majority of the population can do?.

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Most achievement tracking sites says around 10% and this is only for public profiles! It's not hard to imagine that maybe around 15-20% of the people does ultimate!

Now tell me whats accessible about the new FORTY EIGHT MAN SAVAGE! They should've cutted that out! No one even watched prog on that on twitch either!

Now we have an even less accessible content! For ultimate you just need to clear savage, for this new content you need to farm your essence, your logos, cap out in some mind numbing content, clear a content that no one does, clear another soon to be dead 24 man content, farm BiS by praying to RNG gods in a content that no one does anymore for augmented gear, and don't forget you need to find 47 other players instead of just 7 other players!

Ultimate was way more accessible than this garbage!

BIG EDIT: Don't forget they decided to work on more pvp garbage that no one plays in the next expansion!

Holy overuse of exclamation points...

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Originally Posted by Shin96

Forget about these people, no words will reach them.

To them it's all casual while calling us selfish and projecting all kinds of nonsense. Just because some of us don't like this they constantly mention how little people actually cared. I don't know but being here on this forum for not even a day or two is already mentally exhausting. I don't have a problem with casual content but they seem to want our kind out of the game altogether.

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It's far more mentally exhausting for casual players. All I see on this forum are so-called 'hardcore' players whining that they aren't being catered for so you are being very revisionistic. You are literally in a thread with someone saying that they want casual content cut for their 'hardcore' content which they probably suck at anyway.

Keep in mind that it is the pandemic that caused the delay, not because of Bozja.
You have the IRL Garlemald to thanks for this.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

Forget about these people, no words will reach them.

To them it's all casual while calling us selfish and projecting all kinds of nonsense. Just because some of us don't like this they constantly mention how little people actually cared. I don't know but being here on this forum for not even a day or two is already mentally exhausting. I don't have a problem with casual content but they seem to want our kind out of the game altogether.

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Nah not many people actually have this impression contrary to your belief, and in fact, arguably a lot of people would be sympathetic to the cause if it was expressed properly. The issue just arises when people seem to be of the understanding that those developing one piece of content e.g. PvP, Triple Triad, are also equally qualified to be touching on or doing Ultimate content, or vice versa with those doing Ultimate content touching on other areas of the game. It's not an effective use of developer time to send people into areas that they clearly would be unqualified for, and sure this is one thing. But then more issues come about when you propose that, because I don't like content, therefore it should be dropped mentality, irrespective of the backlash it has from other areas or spaces of the community. It's not really a good way to make a point, all you're only ever going to get people that rise up in arms all so eager to suckle enjoyment out of the misfortune. Probably deservingly so in fact. This works for both sides of coin, really.

Nah drop PvP? How do you think people that enjoy PvP would feel about this, or who have interest in seeing PvP get, I don't know? Better?

Nah drop Triple Triad updates, it's useless! How do you think some people particularly those that are collectionists or completionists feel about this, despite the very fact people have for a long time expressed disapproval for how Triple Triad has been implemented or worked

Nah drop 24-man or 48-man, nobody cares about it! How about the simple fact that some people would and do genuinely enjoy this content since it is a relatively untouched, and new space; 48-man savage anyway.

Nah drop Bozja, it's crap anyway, nobody likes it! I can assure you plenty of people enjoy this, what about the people that enjoy this and the story contained therein.

If you want to complain about something, don't make it come at the point of proposing to cut off content from other people; you'll only get backlash for it lol

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Originally Posted by Shin96

I have edited my post, I don't agree with the OP in this regard. But for every post like this you have someone with the exact same mentality wanting something gone they find too difficult.

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Sure and I disagree with them too, that is a whataboutism though.

Ultimate has been delayed, it sucks, I get it, but it is still coming. They even had a segment going over what goes into making Ultimate fights, it's not easy, especially with the current situation around the world and how they've been delayed because of it. They are already delaying the expansion and I'm sure they are having to pour so much of their resources into that right now. Don't forget that not only do they have us to please they also have the big bosses at SE to please and their share-holders. Ultimate won't bring in the money but a new expansion will.

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Originally Posted by Steviejd

I want the game to cater to me! ME ME ME ME ME!!!

Some of the overreaction and selfishness in this thread is awful. I get being disappointed that some content that you were looking forward to will not be there but please have some perspective...

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Casual players get 95% of the content.

Hardcore players give negative feedback when some of the 5% scraps they get are cut even further. Casual players react by turning caps lock on and calling those players "selfish", before returning to their wide variety of content specifically catered to them, that they would cause absolute uproar over if any of it was ever turned hardcore.

The last Ultimate was in 2019 and the next likely won't be until 2022. The complaints are reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

It seems to me alot of people think if they lose out on an argument it means something they are in favour of will be lost. Effectively losing a battle which means that content will be lost, and this etc.

The way OP has formulated or should I say expressed themselves is very poor and immature, true, but guess what. People love drama, no one wants to see a rational and honest discussion these days. People seem to take their own frustration out on everyone else these days irrespectable of the consequences this has on a grander scale. This happens all the time. We lose content we like, and someone has to shove their boot in our mouths. I understand the frustration OP has, even though worded poorly, intentional or not.

Now Ultimate is on the noose. While casuals are bathing in content, we are losing way more and I suppose this is the reason for all this desperation.

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The whole problem is the "us against them" mentality I keep seeing, it's stupidly dividing the playerbase. Also you say that hardcore players have nothing but what is the 48-man savage? That's certainly not casual content.

The dev team have obviously had to prioritise due to covid and a lack of resources and the dev team obviously have data to help them decide which pieces of content to prioritise and what parts of the team can do what. The same people creating Farmville :FFXIV Edition would not be the same people developing Ultimate.

Anyway it is the same with all MMO's. If you go to any of their forums (WoW, ESO etc) it is the same with people bitching, complaining and whining.

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Originally Posted by MPK

Most achievement tracking sites says around 10% and this is only for public profiles! It's not hard to imagine that maybe around 15-20% of the people does ultimate!

Now tell me whats accessible about the new FORTY EIGHT MAN SAVAGE! They should've cutted that out! No one even watched prog on that on twitch either!

Now we have an even less accessible content! For ultimate you just need to clear savage, for this new content you need to farm your essence, your logos, cap out in some mind numbing content, clear a content that no one does, clear another soon to be dead 24 man content, farm BiS by praying to RNG gods in a content that no one does anymore for augmented gear, and don't forget you need to find 47 other players instead of just 7 other players!

Ultimate was way more accessible than this garbage!

BIG EDIT: Don't forget they decided to work on more pvp garbage that no one plays in the next expansion!

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There are Discord for this 48 players savage, has been going nice and smooth at least on the static I joined there, we even cleared the first boss and trash boss and progged the second boss last night.
You can exchange Pure essence fragment with cluster/buy from mb, also lost actions depends on the alliance, there is no annoying mixing of logos like Eureka.
It is hard to find another 7 players for BLU Morbol mount achievement too, I dislike how "bottleneck" it is to get this reward myself, but I am happy many enjoyed it.

The Garlemald related story are probably on a higher priority to lay the foundation for story in 6.0, they mentioned the dev started the development of 6.0 expansion at the beginning of 5.0.
So they probably have all the story laid for Bozja/Garlemald story at the beginning of the expansion.

Ultimate is probably developing from less existing resource/model/mech they have to build specify for it.

As for PVP, they want player to casually play PVP without waiting for queue too long.

I know it is upsetting for many hardcore players that they delayed the new Ultimate, but please understand the devs have been doing their best, and all of their hardworked creations are far from garbage.
No one expected the pandemic to hit so hard in Japan, otherwise they could have release Ultimate/Ishgard housing in the end of SHB.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Casual players get 95% of the content.

Hardcore players give negative feedback when some of the 5% scraps they get are cut even further. Casual players react by turning caps lock on and calling those players "selfish", before returning to their wide variety of content specifically catered to them, that they would cause absolute uproar over if any of it was ever turned hardcore.

The last Ultimate was in 2019 and the next likely won't be until 2022. The complaints are reasonable.

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I would love to know where you have pulled those numbers from... Have you done the Ultimate we have had so far, have you done savage Delubrum Reginae?

It's harder to make more difficult content, it's that simple, especially with the delay/home working. It's hard to QA and tune the content as you need devs that are good enough to test the content.

Like I said, I understand being disappointed I really do, but please don't turn on casual players or create a "us versus them" situation, it really does not help the community.