A (Probably Terrible) Idea to Help SCH class identity

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Originally Posted by QooEr

...what???

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Typos, i didnt bother to edit. If it doesnt make sense just ignore it

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Originally Posted by QooEr

...what???

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I think he’s saying that the healer role in of itself is rewarding to play by keeping everyone alive? Again, I’m not defending the guy, but he does have a point:

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Originally Posted by Kazukiyashuo

Not saying that fflogs is evil, just saying that it can easily disorient ppl from their first goal which is to kill the boss

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Whether you are at the best of the best or just at average skill level, the goal is always to clear the encounter. If tossing out a few extra Healing GCDs could potentially save a run and help clear it, then it’s not wasted GCDs. I don’t completely agree with the guy, but this point is something people oft forget as a Healer.

The cost of using a Healing Aetherflow over Energy Drain is pretty big for DPS. If they could somehow bring a solution that lowers that opportunity cost (like how Misery is a 75% potency refund), it’d go a long way to making Sch feel a lot more interesting to play and optimise.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Not to defend the guy, but they aren’t technically wrong. :o

If their goal is to clear the encounter, then as long as it’s cleared, it should be fine. This is more towards the casual side of play. Could he perform better? Absolutely. It just depends on where each player‘s priorities lies. Would they rather play it safe to guarantee a higher chance to clear? Maybe. Stuff like that is what it boils down into. There’s always room to improve though.

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If we are looking at FFlogs, we are doing it for endgame content. Not for story dungeons. So while clearing the content is the only goal in casual content and not everyone performing decently is perfectly acceptable to a degree because there is no hard requirement to clear, in endgame content just aiming to clear it somehow and not paying attention to your own performance is just dumping more responsibility on others to the point of silently asking for a carry.
The goal of every clear party in PF is obviously to clear but someone slacking is putting the team at a disadvantage from the start and one they may not recover from.
Honest mistakes happen all the time but a team with some people performing way below average will not be able to salvage them as easily, if at all. Doing the minimum required for a clear if most others perform well is not enough in endgame content.

First clears are often messy semi-carries and they performed poorly. That's okay, everyone started somewhere.
But from then on it's everyone's own responsibility to improve independently from others. Even classes like Nin, Dnc or Ast which depend quite a lot on others performing decently have enough they need to work out alone. If the others perform well, too, great! But the first step is always to look at themselves.

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Originally Posted by Kazukiyashuo

Well u see thats the trap of fflogs. It can tell u numbers but nothing about the ppl u were playing, their performance and the situation of the fight. Especially when u are pugging. Countless of times i had to give up dpsing to save a run cause the other healer was so focused to parse his glare that was useless to heal. Countless of times i rezed again and again greedy dps dieing like chickens in joke mechanics to get 1 extra gcd for their parse. Countlesa of times i had to babysit a tank that doesnt know what mitigation cooldowns are. So yeah i get your point. Everyone can improve and perform better. But to perform better u need from everyone in your party to equally try to perform. Its not a solo job. Not saying that fflogs is evil, just saying that it can easily disorient ppl from their first goal which is to kill the boss

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I think you're underestimating the amount of things FFlogs and xiva can tell you.
You can see exactly who died at which time and to which mechanic, you can look through the cast tabs of other players and look up when and how often they used mitigation, you can see who took how much damage from mechanics, you can even watch a full replay and see how people positioned themselves and get an idea about their gear by how much their HP dropped during certain mechanics.
You have a full timeline for every single button someone pushed in FFlogs and xiva.
Reconstructing a fight based on all these informations is rather easy.

And improving in endgame content is first and foremost everyone's own responsibility. You do not need everyone in your party trying to equally perform better to improve yourself - this is your responsibility. Trying to put at least part of the blames on others is only going to hinder you.
I had some really chaotic parties with people dying countless times, positioning themselves poorly, not using mitigation, tanks with poor gear and bad cd management but all of that doesn't keep you from things like using powerful oGCDs, paying attention to your uptime, regulary refresing your dot etc., if you try.
Your performance starts with yourself, not others. The better you are, the easier it will be to handle every type of party, from the smooth steamrollers to the chaotic bunch of headless chicken.

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Originally Posted by Kazukiyashuo

Well u see thats the trap of fflogs. It can tell u numbers but nothing about the ppl u were playing, their performance and the situation of the fight. Especially when u are pugging. Countless of times i had to give up dpsing to save a run cause the other healer was so focused to parse his glare that was useless to heal. Countless of times i rezed again and again greedy dps dieing like chickens in joke mechanics to get 1 extra gcd for their parse. Countlesa of times i had to babysit a tank that doesnt know what mitigation cooldowns are.

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It tells you almost everything. I can see who died, how many rezzes each healer needed to use, how many GcD's were forced, which mechanics each death was to and whether it was the fault of the person dying or someone else killed them, which cd's are lined with which, everything the co-healer used, how much damage the tank took, how much they mitigated and so on. It also comes with xivanalysis on top which goes even further into personal rotation. It's an amazing tool in the right hands, it's helped me improve a lot and is vital in raid leading.

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Originally Posted by Kazukiyashuo

So yeah i get your point. Everyone can improve and perform better. But to perform better u need from everyone in your party to equally try to perform.

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I get that. I main WhM and performance on paper is directly tied to the group. If I'm taking my co-healers share of healing, hardcasting raise all fight and everyone's standing in stuff and dying that affects numbers. But that doesn't change things I mentioned, like weaving Benison more, correct aoe heal priority, uptime or using PoM on cd. Using your toolkit well is important in messy fights. If you have to babysit a bad group and you're spamming Medica I, you're making a difficult situation even worse for yourself. You also really want high uptime in messy fights. Aim to be the healer who can still squeeze 7-8k, heal the entire group and take 8 raises in that messy run instead of making excuses and you'll improve a lot for it.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Just aiming to clear it somehow and not paying attention to your own performance is just dumping more responsibility on others to the point of silently asking for a carry.
The goal of every clear party in PF is obviously to clear but someone slacking is putting the team at a disadvantage from the start and one they may not recover from.
Honest mistakes happen all the time but a team with some people performing way below average will not be able to salvage them as easily, if at all. Doing the minimum required for a clear if most others perform well is not enough in endgame content.

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I mean, did you take a look at the guy’s clears? Average of 4 deaths per clear, with most of them ending in majority of the group having greys in damage.

As I said before, the only thing I really agree with the guy on is forgoing a few casts of Broil if it keeps people alive and gets the party through the encounter — and not doing the bare minimum. Those few missing Broils aren’t going to make or break the fight unless it’s week 1 world prog, Ultimate, or the other players in your party are also slacking. Maybe it’s a difference in mindset, I suppose? PF has been pretty bad recently cause of the content drought. I’ve seen a decent number of deaths and wipes in endgame content due to negligence to heal which is kinda unfortunate. :o

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Originally Posted by MorganG

Whether you're fine with the current balance of things or not, it's undeniable that SCHs fall behind WHM and AST in both damage and healing. Are they unplayable? Absolutely not. Despite knowing they fall behind, they're still my personal favorite healer to play. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see some changes.

But SCHs are in a poor place. Shield healing has been intentionally nerfed. They still have plenty of ogcd heals, but their DPS and HPS compete for resources. They now have the lowest healer DPS. Their capstone abilities don't work together, and their kit doesn't play nice with itself. And that's not even getting into the faeries or Seraph ghosting skills.

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All three healers have kits that don't play nice with itself. WHM doesn't have to do anything to build their gauge other than wait for it to passively give lilies, and in content (most) where the healing requirement is low, they may not get to use Misery at all unless they intentionally over heal and clip their GCDs. AST's card mechanic is a subject of great debate, but no matter your thoughts on it; it is still a resource that requires a s-ton of APM to use an ability that is on its own 2 minute cooldown with just a 15s duration after all that work.

So... SCH. They arguably have it the worst. Like WHM, the SCH's job gauge doesn't require much effort from the them to build it. It only has two skills that require its expenditure, neither of which are more favorable than ANY of the fairy skills SCH lost with this expansion. AoE haste; AoE cleanse; and Silent Dusk was conveniently taken away right when SE mentioned that interruptions were going to be a thing that you can now clearly see when executed.

They can adjust pots on shields, heals, and DPS skills all day. I really couldn't care less about who has stronger shields, heals, and DPS. I've mentioned on more than one occasion that this is chasing your tail. It won't solve the healer problem. That problem will not get solved until the devs give healers significant and thorough attention.