Should Clemency be nerfed?

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Who on earth even uses clemency when playing competitively? xD

And why should we even consider balancing the game on casual level?

When i see paladin wasting his combo for clemency as a healer, i want to grab them and throw them into oblivion. I would appreciate the change however, clemency as a oGCD with 2.5 sec cooldown and MP cost, would be a nice thing to have.

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Reminds me when I hear how OP Paladin's tank buster defense is and I throw my hands up as warrior sneaks under the radar with it's low cooldown. Having your anti-tank buster ready for pretty much every tank buster, not a bad deal lol. But because Paladin's just looks cool due to the full life aspect it usually gets targeted for being too good even though it's got the longest cooldown. Yoshida even was asked about nerfing it before as one of the questions to him. .

I really enjoy using Clemency when the healer is down or is having to hard cast raise someone and I can see their health is in significant jeopardy of dying themselves (and there isn't a cohealer) but in every situation where things are going according to plan you shouldn't be using it (obviously we agree), so it feels a bit like "no leave it alone- or maybe even buff it, it's neat but you're overselling how amazing it is because ideally/optimally you're not even supposed to use it" XD.

this makes me wish there was a dislike button for the forums where if people disliked a topic enough it would be hidden.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

Healing is probably the easiest role now.

I dislike it when tanks and rdm start healing themselves when not needed. Leaves me with even less things to do.

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One of those pure healers huh? If your party members are healthy you should be dpsing.

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Nothing of what they said indicates that they're a pure healer. Spamming your 1 AoE action without having to do any healing (o)GCDs is not engaging and indeed means you have less to do. RDMs and PLDs using their healing skills robs you of engagement and effort value when edging their health while dpsing as much as possible. When there's a WAR who can basically solo self-heal, you at least know that they aren't wasting any dps doing that and realizing that makes you enjoy the better efficiency instead of being frustrated with the waste of efficiency in the case of a RDM or PLD healing.

clemency is balanced via the the PLD giving up dps to use it, unlike the other tank heals. PLD has choices to make about whether it selfishly benefits itself or it gives its own benefits up to help others and i like that aspect of the job. Also asking for it to be yet another oGCD is stupid and is another thing that would homogenize jobs even further which is not what we need right now. Sure it can save a party from doom and that in itself might seem OP where other tanks couldn't achieve the same however these situations shouldn't be happening in the first place and it's perfectly fine that clemency could be a huge boon in prog but naturally fall off when you get more comfortable with a fight. Balancing a game around people doing dumb things is also stupid because then you have to draw a line and really, you might as well draw it at being a failure state at all if you want to act like people misusing abilities is an actual issue in casual content where most of it is spamming 1 or 2 abilities anyway....

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Who on earth even uses clemency when playing competitively? xD

And why should we even consider balancing the game on casual level?

When i see paladin wasting his combo for clemency as a healer, i want to grab them and throw them into oblivion. I would appreciate the change however, clemency as a oGCD with 2.5 sec cooldown and MP cost, would be a nice thing to have.

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I've saved numerous dungeon runs when the healer derps and dies and we don't have a SMN or RDM to get them back up. End up tanking AND healing everyone else.

And you balance for casual play because that's where 85% of the FFXIV playerbase is. You don't make every decision based off casual play but to ignore it is a very bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Vulcann

this makes me wish there was a dislike button for the forums where if people disliked a topic enough it would be hidden.

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Such a feature would simply be abused, just like on Reddit.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Such a feature would simply be abused, just like on Reddit.

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Yeah, especially if it hid downvoted content- those sorts of systems lead to echo chambers and echo chambers are just a whole different kind of special. Perhaps if all you were sharing was cute animals, but when discussing ideas.. please no. Although I'm not sure if it was more of a joke "I wish I could delete this". But personally am glad we don't have that sort of thing here. If you don't like something you have to argue against it. People can still hive around the likes but at least people who read can see the argument over having the conversation manipulated before they can even have a chance to see it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I've saved numerous dungeon runs when the healer derps and dies and we don't have a SMN or RDM to get them back up. End up tanking AND healing everyone else.

And you balance for casual play because that's where 85% of the FFXIV playerbase is. You don't make every decision based off casual play but to ignore it is a very bad idea.

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I honestly think that balance is more important for end game content and that actually should be less important for casual content. That's not to say one job should clearly be the best and the rest not, but that I've begin to warm to the idea that casual content should be first and formost designed to be fun and interesting (consistently fair being important too, but less of the pick two of three classic triangle, ideally all three but we know sometimes all three is "good freaking luck"). But when I say this I'm talking about the most casual stuff, not savage or anything like that.

Like I said there should still be a vague semblance of balance and every job being fun, but I think if we try to check every single feature one job has for another you might very well likely kill flavor and make everything homogenized- which is something people complained about in Shb with tanks already. Although I think they did a pretty good job on the damage part for tanks, as damage is king and that's the most notice-able "aww shucks my job sucks", at least when you start comparing jobs (which only really matters late game content, 1 to 2 minute difference in a casual dungeon isn't really going to be important to a casual player especially if it was fun to play in place of "different color of the same toolkit").

Also not saying that other tanks can't improve their utilities if that's what players think is fun for those jobs, just that I do think they should continue to attempt similar damage output while having variances when possible (warrior can anti-buster most tank busters, dark knight has anti-magic, etc). So more of an argument of trying to say yes if it doesn't feel good maybe change it but also make sure that you're not just making all the jobs exactly the same toolkit with a different button order, and that I feel that actually casual content is the best place to feel different and unique while the higher tier end game content would be the absolute worst place for it. If anything I've begun to think that there should be a unique kit for normal content, including MSQ and most casual instances, and then a well balanced kit designed for high level of play in harder more competitive content like PvP and savage/ultimate.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

Your attempt to minimize it with snark and sarcasm really doesn't work here, and is still remarkably underinformed; that's literally a 50% difference in healing, give or take based on what the WAR does.

One is an action designed specifically for healing, the other augments what you are already doing to provide healing to the party. WAR is producing gross levels of healing across a fight and is very likely to prevent a problem from happening. In realistic scenarios, when people are actually doing DPS, you'll get a lot more sustain from the job who can heal while still participating.

PLD has access to a lot of healing on demand. The burst healing they can do in a given moment indeed cannot be compared to anything the other tanks can do, and it can salvage a disastrous party, but let's not aggrandize its meaning by isolating it into a favourable context. It's disingenuous.

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Nothing I said was sarcastic. Nascent Flash doesn't do much unless you're holding it for a problem, because you can't predict when the problems happen. Either you're healing as you go, consistently, every time it's off CD, or you're saving it to pull somebody's ass out of the fire or for a particular moment where you know you'll need the healing/mit(if it's for someone else). It's not gross at all. It's one notch away from impractical, and it is generally overheal/useless. You can say the same for a lot of healing skills, though.

Clemency isn't the skill that needs a favorable or particular scenario. Nascent Flash does, though, because its CD has to be accounted for. It can't both sustain you constantly, and then also pull asses out of the fire on demand. Clemency can do both.

As for people asking for PLD to have raise... it did once. When sub skills still existed. It didn't get battle raise trait though, so it could only do it out of combat, which was most useful in POTD.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I've saved numerous dungeon runs when the healer derps and dies and we don't have a SMN or RDM to get them back up. End up tanking AND healing everyone else.

And you balance for casual play because that's where 85% of the FFXIV playerbase is. You don't make every decision based off casual play but to ignore it is a very bad idea.

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Yeah but OP didnt took into consideration other aspects of clemency and that pld sacrifices a lot of dps when using it, leave alone the pure fact of healers having so large healing kit that could heal dps tanking dungeon so clemency does now even matter or another fact of other tanks being able to perform perfectly fine in comparison and even way better than pld... And this is the reason why balancing it for casuals who does not even know how stuff work in the game is asking for trouble.

So no, devs should never lower their balance standards to the lowest denominator, as it would break end game for majority of players who play on 80, as majority is doing raids.