Raiding is becoming less and less optional

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lium

The bold part sort of invalidated your point because it comes off as a dig to "filthy casuals". For the record, I'm not upset about the new direction of this game, I just found it interesting.

If you read my OP I even said I've voluntarily gone back and done all the old raids just for fun. It's just odd that they would start requiring raids to advance in the MSQ, if they do indeed do more of that in the future.

---

Doesn't invalidate my point at all just because you dislike the way I phrased something. I'm also one of those 'filthy casuals' you claim I was talking about, as I'm no longer raiding Savage.

If you aren't upset about it, you're certainly coming off as such. Continuing to cite a statement SE made about 'only a small % do raids' also gives off the impression you dislike any possible 'direction' they're going in (they're not, btw) to making moderately more difficult content non-optional.

The only reason CT is required to advance this is because they made the decision to tie in one of the NPCs to the MSQ. They gave people plenty of time to do the raids as an optional thing, to enhance their ShB experience (while not forcing it, since there are options in dialogue for people who have not completed CT). Understanding what will come next in the MSQ is very likely to need some understanding of the original story in the CT raids and knowledge of who [redacted] is.

That decision is by no means pointing towards a future requirement to do optional raid content, though. And before you cite Bozja requiring the Ivalice raids - that is entirely optional content. Relic has been and will continue to be optional content.

There is very little possibility of the Mhachi raids tying in later unless we delve into the Void or need to learn about the Great Flood. Yorha is also not likely to be required for any MSQ in the future, as it was guest content (the same as how the Great Hunt is permanent guest content, but not required for anything). Ivalice is not required for the MSQ, only for an o p t i o n a l questline.

So stating that the raids are becoming forced content is more or less stating a lie. One raid out of the many, many 'raid' content we have is not all raid content becoming forced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adrameliya

I miss the old Steps of Faith, I loved firing the cannons and dragon killer harpoons. It was fun and very chalenging, i'm still very disapointed they nerfed it so much.

---

I do as well. It wasn't even difficult content, it just required a fair amount of organization and communication - two things of which this community seems to avoid like the plague at times. The requirements of competency for it made the trial actually feel fairly stressful and epic, something that I think fit the 'end' of ARR and pulling us into Ishgard and its Dragonsong War. Nerfing it the way they've done has all but eliminated that feeling, which I feel has soured the experience overall. Same with how brain-dead CT is now - it wasn't ever 'hard', but it required some attention and communication before whereas now you can basically alt-tab to Netflix the entire time and no one will notice. (Granted this is due to ilevel creep, not nerfs. Still something that should be fixed all the same.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

SE should have made it a requirement in addition to completing 4.5 MSQ to do the Crystal Tower to unlock the first 5.0 MSQ quest, if the Crystal Tower was that important and intertwined to the story. Waiting a year on a "suggestion" and then making it mandatory past the 1 year anniversary of the release of the expansion tells me there's other reasons beyond lore.

---

I don't see a reason to see it as some kind of conspiracy - and given the number of complaints about too much Syrcus Tower in alliance roulette, I have a hard time believing it would be out of a need to increase participation levels in low-populated content.

They didn't force CT for 5.0 because - as much as it is highly recommended for story comprehension - it isn't needed to keep the sequence of events straight. (I'll spoiler-tag the rest of this just in case.)

The story will not reference side story events as having happened if the individual player hasn't played the story to "make it happen", which is why side content doesn't usually link back into MSQ, as the story can't build on something that might not have happened yet.

5.0 carefully steps around this rule because the time travel element negates the need for the player to have made those events happen at the point when the story plays out. It doesn't matter if the events of CT, Alexander and Omega are still in your future, because the Exarch has come back from an even further point in the future, so those events happened somewhere between now and then. (It's a flimsy excuse if you stare at it too hard and try to make sense of the altered timeline, but enough to scrape through.) The story can play out the same whether you completed CT or not, therefore they didn't force it.

Obviously whatever they've got planned will for 5.3 will be a different story. Something we'll be doing in the here and now will rely on the state of something changed by those events.

The obvious possibility is that we might need to wake up G'raha Tia again - which is rather hard if he was never sealed in the tower to begin with. So we would need to complete CT to ensure that has happened.

Or maybe the solution to our problem lies in the World of Darkness - and again, to ensure that world is in a particular state (Xande's covenant and the voidgate destroyed, Unei and Doga maybe still in there somewhere, Cloud of Darkness still rather furious at us?), we need to have completed CT.

Eureka would feel forced because it has had no direct recent links to MSQ. Its gameplay is also a fair bit further away from FFXIV's usual play format of story quests and battle instances.

CT isn't a "tough endgame raid" - it's practically a dungeon. Would you complain if 5.3 gave you a new MSQ chapter with three new dungeons to play through? Because level synch aside, this really isn't any different or more challenging. But put the label "raid" on a thing and suddenly it's something else entirely.

I think we had more wipes to the Mist Dragon when the Burn was newly-launched than I've ever seen happen in a single CT run. Even World of Darkness. Might get one or two on a specific boss, but people learn from mistakes and it goes better on the next attempt.

The 24 man Alliance stuff arent raids. Theyre pretty much just a dungeon party with 24 people instead of 4.

The only trouble I see is when people dont know mechanics from SB alliance raids. That slows things down a bit. But its not that huge a deal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

SE should have made it a requirement in addition to completing 4.5 MSQ to do the Crystal Tower to unlock the first 5.0 MSQ quest, if the Crystal Tower was that important and intertwined to the story. Waiting a year on a "suggestion" and then making it mandatory past the 1 year anniversary of the release of the expansion tells me there's other reasons beyond lore.

Since SE loves not giving much money to FF14, some SE executives could be looking at these 24 man raids, seeing a completion and participation rate lower than what was to be "expected", and they could cut more funding and move resources around. FF14 leadership forcing participation could be a move to save the content. Then again, I work for a corporation that literally forces people (employees and customers) to use tools and applications just to have a high usage rate to justify spending money on resources to upkeep and make similar tools and applications.

Now for those scratching their heads on why people would be stating their dissatisfaction to now have to do content they were not interested in doing in the first place and changes from being from optional to required, let me just change just one noun in this scenario:

Instead of ShB being around the Crystal Tower, it is around the island of Eureka.
The Eureka storyline has many ties to the MSQ.
It will be required to complete the Eureka storyline in order to progress in the MSQ in 5.3

Would you not come onto the forums to state your dissatisfaction? Would you not feel like this is "forced?"

Most people don't like Eureka. I do. So would you appreciate me telling you to "suck it up," "your making mountain out of a molehill," etc. No, you wouldn't.

Granite, completing the story in Eureka is no where as quick and easy as completing CT. I am not going to pretend that it does. I am just giving a scenario to give those who are not understanding where some of those who are dissatisfied might be coming from.

---

This becomes a fallacy when you consider this is both the 1st time they made optional side content mandatory in msq but not the 1st time they advised people to do content to enhance the story.

Alisae's return to msq in 3.4 since her spat with her brother in the Quicksand back in 2.0 was highly advised to do coil beforehand yet that still has not become mandatory most likely due to their difficulty (T9 specifically at this point with our level of gear).

So we have a precedence of them both advising and not making it mandatory and of advising and making it mandatory so their is no way to tell at this point if it would ever be a trend.

Also going to put the difficulty of the CT raids for the few that haven't done them, if you can do Philia the last boss of Holminster Switch you can handle everything CT raids through at you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

Instead of ShB being around the Crystal Tower, it is around the island of Eureka.
The Eureka storyline has many ties to the MSQ.
It will be required to complete the Eureka storyline in order to progress in the MSQ in 5.3

Would you not come onto the forums to state your dissatisfaction? Would you not feel like this is "forced?"

Most people don't like Eureka. I do. So would you appreciate me telling you to "suck it up," "your making mountain out of a molehill," etc. No, you wouldn't.

---

So in this scenario, they told us over a year ago that finishing Eureka would enhance our ShB experience(with extra dialogue and whatnot) and now we're finding out that it will actually be required? I wouldnt feel forced at all. In that scenario, i probly finished Eureka last spring. If somehow i hadnt found time for it then, id have certainly found time by now. Ive been(slowly) leveling classes i dont care about for months, i could carve out time for an important story beat to happen. And i say this as someone who went into Anemos when it was new, stayed for maybe an hour, and never went back. Yeah, id "suck it up" and not come to the forums to complain about it.

[QUOTE=Xtrasweettea;5347440
Granite, completing the story in Eureka is no where as quick and easy as completing CT.[/QUOTE]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP-Wd453wq4

Quote:

---

However, what I feel needs to be corrected is the dismissal of Alliance Raids not being coordinated, as they very much are.

---

They in no way require coordination beyond "the tank tanks, the healer heals, the dps go pew", with the exception of the small number of events that require someone stepping on a pad.

There is no "make sure x group picks up this, y group does that, these healers on this tank, make sure you use healer cooldowns at these specific points, dps have to watch xyz, or coordinate interrupts". You mash buttons, you heal the blue things, each of which is capable of tanking every mob in every mass pull designed for 24 people, and you group heal when the boss hits everyone with an ae.

You can even do them with 24 tanks, because literally all of them can be killed by either spinning in a circle a lot or 123'd and healed with clemency.


We do have one raid-sized event that requires coordination in BA.

I also think it's a bit too late in the game's life cycle to be forcing anything on us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rasikko

I also think it's a bit too late in the game's life cycle to be forcing anything on us.

---

So what sort of content do you do, if you don't want this content (which is very similar to the core content of the game) forced on you?

This isn't meant to be dismissive. I honestly can't understand. I'm very averse to higher-level play - invariably fumble it and need to be revived yet again - and alliance raids don't bother me. They're very forgiving, even the harder ones.

If it was some other game mode I could understand more. If they were forcing the lengthy grind of Eureka or PVP or some other game mode, it might make more sense - but this is standard quest-and-dungeon gameplay you can get through it a couple of hours.

This thread makes me think of the Louisoix cutscene in Turn 12 of Coil where you get to see what he really did to Bahamut at Carteneau. Usually stuff they keep as side story content between main story patches or in savage level raids is the kinda stuff that makes for a good treat to make up for the difficulty. I wish they'd stuck to that method.

Also, more on topic, as others have said it's only because they are going to make an upcoming story beat rely on a story beat from the sidequest that involved the raids. Gotta crawl before you can walk and all that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moonfish

The raids are casual content. I don’t see a problem with them being tied to MSQ.

---

Your reply shows why you don't see this as a problem, one that'll drive away a LOT of players who don't raid when they can't play the MSW without enduring 24-man raids as 5.3 will force them to do .. likely SE simply wants to see more MSW boosts to those of us who don't raid, hate raiding and will cease playing if there's no way round it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Also, more on topic, as others have said it's only because they are going to make an upcoming story beat rely on a story beat from the sidequest that involved the raids. Gotta crawl before you can walk and all that.

---

There are of course millions of story-telling ways to achieve this without forcing people to do what many have chosen for 6+ years not to do .. I'll name one: THE ECHO!!!

I'm nit surprised most of the replies in this thread are dismissive because many people posting on this forum are pin the small minority of MMO players who like large-scale group content (as in all MMOs pretty muc) and treat any one who doesn't as 'filthy casuals' no doubt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pintsized

Your reply shows why you don't see this as a problem, one that'll drive away a LOT of players who don't raid when they can't play the MSW without enduring 24-man raids as 5.3 will force them to do .. likely SE simply wants to see more MSW boosts to those of us who don't raid, hate raiding and will cease playing if there's no way round it.

---

"Enduring" 24-man raids? How long are you thinking they take?

The higher-level ones take longer of course, but Labyrinth takes 15 minutes (I literally just got it in roulette and checked the time after) and I'm pretty sure Syrcus Tower is less than that.

As for difficulty... I was playing as healer, and the only time I had to heal anyone was during the skeleton phase of the Bone Dragon fight. Either the other healer was keeping everyone topped up on their own, or there was just that little damage being dealt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pintsized

There are of course millions of story-telling ways to achieve this without forcing people to do what many have chosen for 6+ years not to do .. I'll name one: THE ECHO!!!

---

The Echo doesn't make you remember things that happened to you that you don't remember doing.

Also, if you do that, then it gets even messier if the player decides to go back and do that content.

The writers have an established system for dealing with optional content, and it is not and has never been the Echo, but making a variable script to reflect your progress. It made some parts of Shadowbringers more stilted than they could have been, and presumably they've decided it's too restrictive on the story they're telling to keep writing it that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pintsized

I'm nit surprised most of the replies in this thread are dismissive because many people posting on this forum are pin the small minority of MMO players who like large-scale group content (as in all MMOs pretty muc) and treat any one who doesn't as 'filthy casuals' no doubt.

---

That's quite the assumption.

And I wouldn't have thought there would be such animosity towards large-scale group content like it's some kind of burden.

This is the only MMO I've played. I did the raids because I followed all the blue quest markers I saw, and played all the side stories as they became available to me. (I tried to do Binding Coil and Thornmarch EX via duty finder as well but... yeah. I can see why nobody would want to be forced into those.) The CT raids don't seem anything special to me besides that there are more people in them. It's just another battle instance and a story I quite liked even before it became something more important in the grand scheme of the plot.

So again. What makes this so different and objectionable? Why is it so much worse than a dungeon? The label on the instance doesn't define its difficulty level anywhere near as much as you seem to be making out.

If it was actual non trivial content I could see the problem. Crystal Tower bosses and even Copied Factory can be completed with several dead players and even current ones can be as well so it isn't like they are asking you to complete something that is ridiculously difficult or that requires an insane amount of effort. Anyone can complete these one time to see the story then never do them again.

I really doubt there's some conspiracy here, something probably happens in 5.3 that would make less sense if you didn't do the crystal tower quest line as some of it relates to an existing character so they just put that in there for continuity sake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pintsized

Your reply shows why you don't see this as a problem, one that'll drive away a LOT of players who don't raid when they can't play the MSW without enduring 24-man raids as 5.3 will force them to do .. likely SE simply wants to see more MSW boosts to those of us who don't raid, hate raiding and will cease playing if there's no way round it.

---

Or maybe they just want you to play the content they created? I imagine they would be shocked if anyone paid for a boost to skip Crystal freakin Tower at this point. It's almost 100% faceroll due to everyone being overgeared.

Why do you act like the game wanting you to play it is punishment? Alliance Raids are designed to be beaten by casual players. Some of them may be challenging at a casual level when new, but they are all meant to be ultimately beatable blind.

I hear CT was challenging at launch, so if it were forced ilvl sink too, that would be one thing, but as they are currently you can basically sleepwalk through them

Crystal Tower raid dungeons are easier than any Shadowbringers dungeons.

If you can clear any Shadowbringers dungeon whether it be via trusts, duty finder, party finder, what have you you can clear CT easily.

This is why people view it as a non issue because by the time you need to have done it (5.3+ story) you are already a good enough player to handle these raid dungeons.

So as Iscah has been asking Why is there such an adversion to this raid dungeon series?, it is easier than whatever you do to cap your tomestones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pintsized

There are of course millions of story-telling ways to achieve this without forcing people to do what many have chosen for 6+ years not to do .. I'll name one: THE ECHO!!!

I'm nit surprised most of the replies in this thread are dismissive because many people posting on this forum are pin the small minority of MMO players who like large-scale group content (as in all MMOs pretty muc) and treat any one who doesn't as 'filthy casuals' no doubt.

---

I'm a lazy filthy casual who spends most of my time in game messing around with friends, and have zero issues with doing 24 man raids
Heck I like them more than what I'd consider actual "raiding" in the sense I've done in the past ... I've done savage, I've done day 1 ex farming, I've done mythic raiding in wow and did raiding in SWTOR when it was new
That crap can get stressful. It's not for everyone. But requiring extremely outdated, heavily nerfed (directly or indirectly via outgearing) alliance raids for the MSQ isn't really asking a ton. It's not asking anyone to become a serious raider, and it's really not even asking anyone to be "good" at the game

Gonna be frank. Crystal Tower is a joke. It's a pushover mess of facerolly content that requires maybe a third of the people there to be mostly paying attention, and you're more likely to die because of someone being impatient and/or doing something stupid because they weren't paying attention than because any of the fights actually being challenging at all.
You can basically queue up and watch Netflix through most of them while rolling your hand across your keyboard occasionally, as long as some people aren't, barring MAYBE WoD which does still have a small handful of mechanics that can't just be outright ignored

If anything I'd rate required alliance raids on maybe the same level as those excessively long solo duties they've been making us do the last couple expansions (I freaking hate those). Annoying, maybe not fun if it's not what you're into, but it's a 15 minute annoyance to do and move on and never do again if you don't want to.

We got to the point where people are scared to go clear CT.
Maybe its time to add completion of MSQ with crafter job?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pintsized

Your reply shows why you don't see this as a problem, one that'll drive away a LOT of players who don't raid when they can't play the MSW without enduring 24-man raids as 5.3 will force them to do .. likely SE simply wants to see more MSW boosts to those of us who don't raid, hate raiding and will cease playing if there's no way round it.

---

are you implying the CT raids will drive ANYONE away? you can literally drool all over your keyboard and still clear it in like 15 mins, I think you are putting too much emphasis on the "raid" aspect, they are extremely easy even for new players, the gear creep + massive nerfs have ensured it, hell even newer 24 mans aren't that difficult, harder than CT for sure, but still nothing special, even normal mode raids like Alexander, Omega and Eden are very simple for newer or casual players to jump into and have fun, the only raids that are of the difficulty you have "endure" is Savage and Ultimate. Besides, 24 mans tend to have really tight stories on em, not to mention the CT ares tied to the story of the latest expansion, going through it without doing them will make some moments fall flat imo.

Making it mandatory won't change anything, at this point, CT raids are glorified dungeons, World of Darkness requires a bit more situational awareness, but nothing you can't handle.

It appears that there's some new people who are worried about the word "raid". As stated in this thread, that terminology here in this game is not completely the same as the term used in the "classical MMO sense".

Alliance raids are not raids in the sense in that they're not ultra-difficult content that requires planning and flawless execution. For the most part, except for 1 boss fight in Orbonne Monastery, it is extremely difficult for 1 person to wipe the alliance and the existence of new players going in blind or players who aren't very good at the game is balanced out by the fact that there are 24 people here and your contribution or lack-thereof is negligible. Elements that are already present in the MSQ are much more difficult than alliance raids are. Chrysalis and Steps of Faith were both very difficult when they were first released and have since been nerfed or had ilvl increases make them trivial.

If your fun ends when having to play a dungeon with group mechanics with 23 other people, then MMOs might not be for you, and that's fine. In the end, this is an MMO and playing with other people is a part of the game. Also, this is still a video game and not a visual novel. It is expected that there are parts of the game that are going to be difficult that are tied to the story. All video games have difficult parts and while you shouldn't let the fact that others have an easier time of it discourage you, difficulty has always been a part of video games and you shouldn't except everything being handed to you on a silver platter just because it's tied to the story.

That all being said, SE has already realized the errors of its early days and Steps of Faith has been nerfed and the legitimate raids from Heavensward onward all have a "normal" mode that is much easier and more forgiving than the real raid. This allows people to see the story without being a "raider".

TL;DR: Alliance raids are not on the same level as savage raids so you shouldn't be scared of the word "raid".

If this is just about the CT raids, as a relative new player who'd done the level 50 quests and the CT story line, I hope SE is not making CT required in AAR. Making it required in ShB to continue MSQ is fine, in my opinion.

The 100-ish 2.0+ quests are already dreadful enough to plow through. Even SE is considering trimming them, I don't see much would be removed, because they are needed to help understand the stories that follow. CT is such a nice story, and I would hate to see it being rushed through.

Moreover, I'm not sure the heavily nerfed CT raid is a good introduction of alliance raids to a new player. I read about the fights before I did them, but ended up very confused because many mechanics didn't happen due to the high DPS, and I was chasing this large group people most of the time, not knowing where I'm going and what is happening.

We don't know at what point CT will be mandatory, whether during ARR or pre-shB.
With the ARR reworking, I assume the former

There's literally nothing difficult in 24 mans.
You have 6 healers in the whole raid, 3 tanks, and 15 dps.
With how popular RDM is, there's bound to be one or two RDMs in there in addition to 6 healers.
That's SEVEN rezes

You basically can literally just watch Netflix and press Glare every 5 seconds like the rest of the people who do them and you can complete them.
You just have to follow the crowd to figure out where the safe spot is.

Run it, give it a try and you'll see that some Dungeons are a lot more punishing than 24 mans, and some of those Dungeons are required to progress MSQ. Non-Savage/Ultimate content is designed to be able to be completed with the minimum effort possible.

To be honest, I have no problem with the 24-man raids being obligatory to proceed with the MSQ. Their level of difficulty is such that anyone going through [insert MSQ trial here] should be able to complete it with little issue. Hell, for as much as I like 24-mans being their own stories, I'd be down for them to be made with the MSQ in mind. That is to say, not as "side-content."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pintsized

Your reply shows why you don't see this as a problem, one that'll drive away a LOT of players who don't raid when they can't play the MSW without enduring 24-man raids as 5.3 will force them to do .. likely SE simply wants to see more MSW boosts to those of us who don't raid, hate raiding and will cease playing if there's no way round it.

---

I'd like to see the evidence that "a lot" of players will be driven away since it feels like a facade for "i dont like this and want to make it sound like many others outside a vocal minority wont either in an attempt to have legitimacy in this conversation "

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payotz

There's literally nothing difficult in 24 mans.
You have 6 healers in the whole raid, 3 tanks, and 15 dps.
With how popular RDM is, there's bound to be one or two RDMs in there in addition to 6 healers.
That's SEVEN rezes

You basically can literally just watch Netflix and press Glare every 5 seconds like the rest of the people who do them and you can complete them.
You just have to follow the crowd to figure out where the safe spot is.

Run it, give it a try and you'll see that some Dungeons are a lot more punishing than 24 mans, and some of those Dungeons are required to progress MSQ. Non-Savage/Ultimate content is designed to be able to be completed with the minimum effort possible.

---

Verraise is level 64 and you can't use it in level-capped ARR and HW content. But despite that, it won't really be necessary and CT can be completed without paying much attention to mechanics (except pads) and wiping 1/4 of the raid anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stepjam

We don't know at what point CT will be mandatory, whether during ARR or pre-shB.
With the ARR reworking, I assume the former

---

Assuming they're opting for cohesion, it'll probably take place after the 1-50 MSQ and before the patch content.

i wonder how some of these raiders would feel if an activity that they didn't enjoy was forced in order to do the MSQ. "in order to complete 5.4 you must have 3 crafters and 2 gather classes raised to max level"

but its easy so its not a big deal amirite?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vulcann

but its easy so its not a big deal amirite?

---

>Raiders
>CT
https://i.imgur.com/jhNzrWg.png

In its current state CT is easier than any of the Shadowbringers dungeons. Due to extreme overgearing very few mechanics still happen and the ones that do still need to be done shouldn't take that long to learn.

I urge anyone who is worried about having to raid to continue the main story to give CT a try before giving up. The first two parts are regularly cleared in 15 minutes and the third part is not much longer. I am not exaggerating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vulcann

i wonder how some of these raiders would feel if an activity that they didn't enjoy was forced in order to do the MSQ. "in order to complete 5.4 you must have 3 crafters and 2 gather classes raised to max level"

but its easy so its not a big deal amirite?

---

With how much they've boosted crafting and gathering exp this expansion I honestly wouldn't see this as a big deal either.

Edit: As for whether or not it's a good idea I support it. There's a lot of great story content hidden away in optional quests and I'd be happy to see them become relevant again in the main quest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Averax

Assuming they're opting for cohesion, it'll probably take place after the 1-50 MSQ and before the patch content.

---

I hope they stagger it in-between the other MSQ's, but I only say that cos it's pretty fun reading the dialogue referencing recent story events if you do them in order of patch release. (At least, I think the dialogue changes depending on where you are in the MSQ anyway...)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vulcann

i wonder how some of these raiders would feel if an activity that they didn't enjoy was forced in order to do the MSQ. "in order to complete 5.4 you must have 3 crafters and 2 gather classes raised to max level"

but its easy so its not a big deal amirite?

---

Have they advised anyone to level their crafters/gatherers for enhancement of msq? have they added an npc in that is tied to any of these jobs? Has it been a year since their announcement of said advice?

I think it's a no to all 3 don't you, so that ain't happening for a long time if it even happens at all, as crafter/gathering rarely interact with msq just look at the ending to ARR and the lv 50 cul quest for proof of that.

And FYI a fair few raiders level crafters to cap ready for the next expansion so they can repair their own gear mid instance saves time and if SE ever do a Neo/Godka/Final Omega and you have to kill the gatekeeper to get to the second half of the fight you can actually stay in instance longer.

The reason this is treated like such a non issue is because of how absurdly easy CT raids are if you have anything level 80 you are more than prepared for anything these raids throw at you.

I swear if the people complaining about this just entered LoTA once they would realise why it is such a non issue.

If they ever ask people to do Extreme trials/savage/ultimates I and many others posting here saying this isn't that bad would be wielding pitchforks and torches asking what the hell you can't ask your entire playerbase to do stuff of that level of difficulty but CT nope we'll wield our weapons to get people through as it barely takes any time at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vulcann

i wonder how some of these raiders would feel if an activity that they didn't enjoy was forced in order to do the MSQ. "in order to complete 5.4 you must have 3 crafters and 2 gather classes raised to max level"

but its easy so its not a big deal amirite?

---

You know the 24 man raids are pretty easy right? I can que up and set my dog down at my desk and have her go through and she would be okay. Heck I would wager she would be in the top five dps wise... But on a serious note. Anyone that might be nervous about doing 24 man raids, don't be, as people have said they are pretty easy and pretty fun to do as well. If you mess up, oh well you messed up, learn from your mistake and push on. No one is going to be yelling at you or calling you out or anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vulcann

i wonder how some of these raiders would feel if an activity that they didn't enjoy was forced in order to do the MSQ. "in order to complete 5.4 you must have 3 crafters and 2 gather classes raised to max level"

but its easy so its not a big deal amirite?

---

Already done. Have been for a while.

Quote:

---

i wonder how some of these raiders would feel if an activity that they didn't enjoy was forced in order to do the MSQ. "in order to complete 5.4 you must have 3 crafters and 2 gather classes raised to max level"

---

Raiders are more likely to complain about the other way around, honestly -- needing to do MSQ before they can do the latest raids.

Anyway, if it didn't make sense for the story progression to require those things, people would probably (rightfully) complain.

But the Crystal Tower is an aspect of SB2's story, and presumably will play an integral role in the finale (5.3). It gets acknowledged at the end of 5.0 if you've already completed it. It isn't nonsensical to require the completion of those raids. Honestly, the only real flaw is that it wasn't already required to begin with, because it does seem a little bit strange to suddenly require it now, but I think the devs/Yoshi were already aware of this from SB2's beginning and they were just trying to be lenient about it until getting to this point where the ongoing story really wouldn't work without its completion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vulcann

i wonder how some of these raiders would feel if an activity that they didn't enjoy was forced in order to do the MSQ. "in order to complete 5.4 you must have 3 crafters and 2 gather classes raised to max level"

but its easy so its not a big deal amirite?

---

Activities I don't enjoy are already part of the MSQ, but I like the story and it's required to do other things I do like so I deal with it. If they were asking people to do challenging or time consuming content, yeah I'd be annoyed, but a 15 minute facerolly joke of a "raid" that you can literally afk your way through if you hate it that much? Not a huge concern for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stepjam

We don't know at what point CT will be mandatory, whether during ARR or pre-shB.
With the ARR reworking, I assume the former

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Averax

Assuming they're opting for cohesion, it'll probably take place after the 1-50 MSQ and before the patch content.

---

I think it could possibly have a gate in both places: one in post-ARR (if it's not simply made part of the MSQ itself) to ensure new players do the quests at their proper place in the story, and a second gate at the start of 5.3 to catch anyone who is already past the point where they set up the first gate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vulcann

i wonder how some of these raiders would feel if an activity that they didn't enjoy was forced in order to do the MSQ. "in order to complete 5.4 you must have 3 crafters and 2 gather classes raised to max level"

but its easy so its not a big deal amirite?

---

I'm not "a raider". I haven't even unlocked most of the recent EX/Savage stuff because it just clogs up my party finder list.

I can only assume that anyone complaining about doing these raid hasn't actually done them, and is simply assuming they are difficult because of the "raid" label.

Like it or not, they're going to be mandatory. Your choices are:

1. Play them once to clear the story and get on with enjoying the rest of the game

2. Refuse to play them and be unable to make further MSQ progress

3. Quit the game rather than be forced to play them

And if you are going to take the second or third option on the sheer assumption that they will be difficult and unenjoyable, without at very least playing the lead-in quests and attempting the Labyrinth, then it is very much your loss.

This isn't upcoming content where you can only speculate on how much you think you won't enjoy it. It's there in the game and it only takes a few hours to get through the entire thing, and half of it is run-around quests and cutscenes.

All this hemming and hawing about having to do the Crystal Tower raids is reminding me of my first time playing this game. I leveled all the way to 30 or so on multiple classes without pushing very far in the Main Scenario because I was afraid Sastasha would be too hardcore for me. Not a 24-man raid, not an 8-man trial, Sastasha.

Abandon your preconceptions entirely, do the Crystal Tower questline, pop right into Labyrinth of the Ancients synced down to item level 130 or so when the raid is balanced around you being closer to fresh off of Praetorium, and realize that you have completely overblown how difficult it was going to be. It's nothing more than a dungeon with a higher than normal headcount. Syrcus Tower is even easier, and the World of Darkness, while better tuned, can still be cleared with half the party sleeping at the wheel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vulcann

i wonder how some of these raiders would feel if an activity that they didn't enjoy was forced in order to do the MSQ. "in order to complete 5.4 you must have 3 crafters and 2 gather classes raised to max level"

but its easy so its not a big deal amirite?

---

If I could level up 3 DoH and 2 DoL by doing about an hour, at most, of things I didn't like and never had to do again, to advance in the story. I would totally be ok with it. Comparing leveling 5 jobs from 1 to 80 with 3 of the fastest and easiest 24 man raids in the game is both cringy and hilarious at the same time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Averax

Assuming they're opting for cohesion, it'll probably take place after the 1-50 MSQ and before the patch content.

---

I think the recent digest for the Last Live Letter actually answers this to a degree. For new Players going through the story, once they finish the quests in 2.55, they will get a notification to complete the Crystal Tower story if they have not already. It was not specified if players would be blocked from entering Heavensward, or that block would be in place for only 5.3 quests, but with the way it is worded I believe it is in fact the latter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zhexos

Before you begin the Patch 5.3 main scenario quests, you’ll need to have completed the Crystal Tower quest series and “My Little Chocobo” quest. With the Crystal Tower series’ relevance to the main scenario, we decided to make it a requirement.

Players will be notified of these progression requirements at certain points during the main scenario. For instance, if you recently started FFXIV and are progressing through A Realm Reborn, a popup asking you to complete the Crystal Tower quests will be displayed before you begin the Heavensward main scenario.

---