If you're going to bring age into it, or former MMORPG experience, then you should know not to wave a paintbrush by projecting on 'everyone' via one example.Quote:
I was also under the impression that this "community" was... different, but old as I am, I should know by now that EVERY ONLINE GAME IS THE SAME.
Every online game has its bad eggs - and every game is also choc-full of people who want different things. The prerequisite of a game living up to the 'decent community' moniker doth not include being immune to differing goals. Do bear in mind that while there are plenty of new players joining the mix, the majority are typically those who have seen and done X content extensively and don't desire revisiting it and having it drawn out more than it needs to be. That's the sad reality, here.
I prefer large pulls compared to small when dealing with content I've done 9 bazillion times - but I'm not going to rag on someone who can't, won't, or doesn't want to do the same. Others might, sure, and some might get pissy over it, but don't assume that because these people exists, everyone is exactly the same. People who claim that is the case really shouldn't be waving the age card while projecting in such a manner.
For example, I'm levelling Scholar right now, and when I get really low level dungeons in roulette, my pet does all the healing, yet you'll get some new tanks who continue to do single-pack pulls despite this, even after I politely suggest that they are free to grab more packs. Let's just say that Tam-Tara Deepcroft taking 30-40 minutes isn't a lot of fun when you've seen it more times than you have years in your life. The important part, however, is that if you get this via a roulette, there is every chance that you'll land with people who want to do it a different way than you do. The best you can do is openly say as much, eg. "New to tanking". If a band of plebs deem this worth kicking you over, then rejoice in not having to stick with them. Using the "get a premade" point goes both ways - that applies to you just as much as it does them.
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05-21-2020, 01:40 PMRopeDrink
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05-21-2020, 01:53 PMKolsykolI mean...Quote:
Originally Posted by yajnaji
Maybe you are.
If this is a consistent problem that you have then the common denominator is you.
I tank, heal and dps and as much as I should I don't always look up the tactics on a new fight.
And I've never had any negative experience like this.
Edit: Also, this is a MMO and not a singleplayer game.
Your attitude is really bad for a MMO tbh.
You're not entitled to that the way that you are in a singleplayer game because the way that you play affect other people. So don't act surprised when people disapprove of that.
If I mess up badly and waste everyones time on really obvious things because I didn't bother looking up the tactics for a boss then I am not going to complain and act all entitled about it when people blame me for it and get annoyed.
Even more so if you're deliberately playing a job that affects the group even more like a tank.
You do have a responsibility.
But even if you play BLM for example don't act surprised if you get kicked because you're spamming ice spells because you want to play a frost mage.
It doesn't matter if it's '' your sub '', people are still within their right to kick you.
Personally I let the tank and healer set the pace no matter what I play, but at the same time the way that you're typing makes me think that it was you who were the problem and not the other way around and that you're not telling the whole truth.
You don't seem like a pleasant person to play with tbh... -
05-23-2020, 02:53 AMGoji1639
Yea, just report them. This does seem to be one of the more toxic MMO communities, but SE is actually pretty strict when it comes to dealing with insults and harassment. So, reporting it actually does make a difference.
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05-25-2020, 01:20 PMShariusTC
Tbh, i dont even waste my time to talk with slow tank, just straightly kick them out of the party and ask for a fill in from my novce network, much better than waiting them to move their ass over dungeon
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05-25-2020, 04:55 PMTlamila
So let's see, as a new player who's only levelled one job and dps before, you picked right away a lvl 60 tank, and went right away not into a levelling dungeon but into an old-endgame one. I assume you got there through 50/60/70 roulette. Those dungeons, exactly because they were meant for endgame, have special mechanics compared to levelling ones, WP in particular requires you to be very fast and always look behind you, hide and all. It's certainly not a dungeon you should be learning to tank into. Sure, now the tonberries are not as dangerous as they used to be but still.
And as others said, your attitude is terrible for a mmo, "I play the way I want" is something you're welcome to do with the squadron or Trust, not in a group. Ironically, you complain about the toxicity of others but you should understand you are the one being toxic to others. -
05-26-2020, 04:31 AMRivinhalDid you ever consider informing them you were a new tank before the pull?Quote:
Originally Posted by yajnaji
People aren't willing to subject themselves to slow dungeon runs because of a selfish/bad tank's whims. But most groups are willing to adjust and even help players who are new to a role. Sure, you'll still run into jerks (that's life), but the majority of people are accepting and even helpful, because they want players to improve...
If you're going to "play your way" in group content, then you also can't be selfish. You have to take your party into consideration. Being uncommunicative and self-righteous isn't helpful. A single message of "Bear with me team! I'm new to tanking, so I apologize for any mistakes. Any advice would be appreciated as well! Thanks!" probably could've prevented this. -
05-26-2020, 10:10 AMRokkuEkkusuI'll communicate with the slow tank first. Sometimes, even with proper cooldowns, some tanks not too geared to the teeth where they can do huge pulls (points to many Bardam's Mettle, Doma Castle, and Holminster Switch dungeon runs that have reckless tanks that aren't geared to initiate big pulls).Quote:
Originally Posted by ShariusTC
That's fine if your server's novice network has tanks that come to your beck and call. But Novice Network chats tend to be toxic and/or beyond the scope of it intended game scope (points to self seeing such things happen on several servers I was on). -
08-04-2020, 03:11 AMckq53
I started playing this on PS4 when it came out and chose PLD. Had a horrible experience as it was my first MMO. I stopped playing about the middle of HW cause I just wasn't very good as a tank. I picked it back up on PC during last years Winter Steam sale and figured I start playing again. I've got about 500 or so hours logged so far. This time I stayed away from tanking because I had severe Tankxiety from the last time. I chose DRG, leveled to 80 and I leveled DNC , MCH, SMN, and BRD. I watched a Work to Game video a while back about Tankxiety and one thing he said that spurred me to level one was "Stop being a p***y!!" I said screw it and chose DRK I leveled it to 80 but wasn't satisfied. I still felt like I was doing stuff wrong a
I then decided to try GNB. Same thing... something just wasn't right, I was honestly scared to play with the two. that Tankxiety was still there. Was I pulling enough? Using cool downs properly?
My usual start to a dungeon while leveling them was to say in party chat "Leveling tank here so bear with me as I may make a mistake or three". Never once did I get any grief or harassment from ANYONE the whole way through! Everyone was extremely generous (even the ones doing roulettes) They'd always say "take it at your own pace", "no worries" or healers would say "Go for it, I got you". But they still didn't feel right. Like I wasn't good and I still had that pit in my stomach.
Fast forward to last week. I started leveling a GLD/PLD from scratch. THAT'S what I was missing!! DRK and GNB already came with half or almost all their kit when you start them. What I needed was one ability at a time! It made all the difference in the world! I've gained so much confidence in my tanking ability with PLD that I don't get that pit in my stomach when I queue up for a dungeon. Also I dungeon grind, I don't do Deep Dungeons because I want to learn every square inch of every dungeon. If that means having to run Quarn 7 times to unlock the next one then so be it! Its much needed practice and it pays dividends in rotation/CD practice for me. As well as the confidence to start pulling wall to wall if I need to. I can't count how many times I've gotten everyone's comms at the end of a dungeon while I've been leveling PLD. Granted I'm only 56 at the moment but leveling from scratch truly is the way to go for me. It's also made my DRK and GNB playstyle better as a result.
Saying you want to "play it the way you want to" doesn't really work. And in one of your posts you summed it up in one phrase "...I'm entitled...". No, you're really not. You're working as a team, and I've found that communicating up front before you even start that you're leveling or it's your first run of the dungeon WILL make ALL the difference in the world as to your enjoyment of the game. I promise! This games community really IS awesome as far as I've found.
TL;DR
Start from scratch! PLD or WAR. -
08-04-2020, 03:26 AMSqwallI have been tanking from the very beginning, and I can say this. Tanking then is VERY different then tanking now. Back then it was all about holding agro and heals keeping up. DPS peeled hate in large pulls it could go bad very quickly. Enter Stormblood and ShB the tanking pulls REALLY started to get crazy. Wall to wall pulls and oddly enough you really didn't die and you still held hate fairly well if the DPS used diversion. Shadowbringers has really just adopted this way of pulling in dungeons and ran with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by yajnaji
I for one actually like it more then the way that it was back in ARR and HW days where you really had to tip toe through dungeons and not pull to much or risk wiping.
I have also tanked in WoW for 6-7 years (Vanilla, BC, WotLK, and Cata) so I understand where your coming from. Cata in particular had a HUGE change in dungeon mechanics, in where you had to do EACH and EVERY single encounter just the right way. And it got ANNOYING as time went on. Which burnt me out....and now I live in FFXIV.
I would say just humor the group your with and ask them what you should do. Nobody should harass anyone, but I would think the exact same thing if your a GNB as you should know already how dungeons are pretty much expected to be pulled now. I wouldn't harass you, but if I was on my astro healer...I would say pull the world please :D -
08-04-2020, 03:44 AMSqwallI was hesitant to start FFXIV with tanking, but then I was there since the beginning. Now coming from WoW tanking was incredibly thankless role. If you messed up the backlash was instant, and generally very toxic. I always made it a point to run with guildies. That dungeon finder can be a cruel equalizer form some jumping into the tanking scene.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedkel
Thankfully this is MUCH less toxic in FFXIV, but every once in a while you do get raked over the coals for being a floor tank. I just use shirk on those people that annoy me, I smile and enjoy myself. Then they start to understand what i'm doing to them, and let them know it's for being rude. It's not harassment per say, but it does get the point across to be nice and not such a jerk. I used to do this to BADDDD people in FFXI with Warp II, lol we would be in the crawlers nest and I would send there asses packing back to Jeuno or Whitegate. LOL! I even had a macro set up while I would cast to send a /tell to them about not being a troll and that they were being banished from the party. Miss FFXI days -
08-04-2020, 04:01 AMSqwallThis is the best advice anyone can give you honestly. Tanking isn't something you can just pick up. You have to start it from level 1 and move upwards, learning every single fight isn't something you can just read about, you have to just do it. Going directly into 60 GNB literally skips 40-50 dungeons from ARR and HW (normal and hardmodes combined). So you might be missing some key tanking tips and tricks. Like if the boss does a large aoe, you run out, and knowing that "right moment" to run back in. That's something you just get a feel for from tanking a LONG time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckq53
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08-04-2020, 04:14 AMckq53What also helps me is I watch a video or two on You Tube. Like a Tank POV of whatever dungeon I'm about to get into. (I'm the type of person that OVER researches everything i do) so I can see where I can pull multiple packs and things to look out for. Even though I've done these dungeons a hundred times DPS I never really paid attention to the tank perspective. It helps IMMENSELY!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqwall
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08-04-2020, 04:33 AMSqwallYes this too. I wouldn't really get anxiety from dungeons, hard modes or trials. The real anxiety comes from Savage, Extreme, Ultimate. I always get this horrible pit in my stomach when it's savage or extreme when I'm main tank. Even in practice or prog. I have lately been getting into a static and that helps IMMENSELY as nobody wants you to fail. Usually they give you great tips and advice, but they will boot you if you don't take that advice if you just don't learn. Repetition, repetition, repetition. Like stripping a weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckq53
Also, if you really want to get serious about tanking you need to take your UI and strip it down to the bare minimum. Only have essential information, I didn't know until Stormblood that I could separate the target bar down to HP, progress bar, debuffs, buffs! moving all that stuff around to help you tank better. Especially the progress bar for aoe, tank busters, jumps, phases, etc,.
Also I write down all the progress bar actions from a boss that i'm working on with little cliff notes. I.E. Ruby Weapon - Stamp = Sentinel, Rampart, Sheltron. Tank buster. Ruby Dynamics - follow the boss and wait for AOE then run away from party.
Simple stuff like that can really help when your going into a fight, and maybe a video can confuse you. The devil is in the details, and I like to print out the progress bar skills so I know what to expect, or help explain to others learning. Keep it simple though.
Ruby Ray - Get behind boss. That's simple and easy -
08-04-2020, 04:35 AMOdysseusGR
i understand that you have to rant somewhere. many people gave you legit advice here and you should follow it. you don’t sound like a new MMO player so i don’t understand how you are surprised by online behaviors. The subreddit is full of stories from angry people. I know premade groups that if you are slow they will kick you and finish the dungeon without a tank. so, use your chat to communicate, start learning a tank role from scratch, and if you don’t feel like speed running a dungeon (which is the high level norm), have a premade group, change roles or use the chat to let people know. if people harass you, report them and move on. I am actually offended that you even thought of comparing us with crappy WoW.
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08-04-2020, 04:37 AMGula"New player"Quote:
Originally Posted by yajnaji
:thonk: -
08-04-2020, 04:42 AMGulaIt's always a one sided story until the other party members show up to clarify.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrias
I'm not a pro player, despite having played this game since Heavensward. Because I can't wall to wall pull, and am terrible at mass healing. So if someone wants to go slow, I more than welcome it. And if I can't go fast, I'll speak up. Never been called a bot or insulted for it.
In these one sided stories, the OP often whips out the Platinum Victim Card and there's no reciepts. -
08-04-2020, 11:48 AMDWolfwood
A lot of the FFXIV community is coming from WoW, so... yeah.
Sorry about that. Not everyone is terrible, but there's a lot of elitists for sure. -
08-05-2020, 01:22 AMSqwallQuote:
Originally Posted by OdysseusGR
I would go as far to say that FFXIV community PRIDES itself on not being that toxic. I don't want to dog on WoW since I lived there for a while, but it has just gotten the horrible stereotype of it's community. A lot of that comes straight from the top though, and completely Blizzards fault for not taking care of it. FFXIV does the complete opposite and stamps that toxic crap right out of existence. Sure there are times it happens, but SE takes it very seriously. They don't want there crown jewel (money maker) becoming a toxic cesspool of elitist jerks min maxing your every thought or move.
Does anyone remember FFXI community? It was a mixed bag of both, and it was kind of daunting when you found a group that were elite, but they never made you feel like crap. They razed you a little bit, but then they helped you out. Which built really strong friendships and good linkshell community. WoW did the COMPLETE opposite of this, and I blame the 2 faction split mostly. Horde vs. Alliance. I think people would role play a little when it came to PVP and would say some nasty things to the other side. They would take that mentality and just use it like normal language outside of PVP. I know this...because I did this lol. FFXIV just asks that you leave that at the door before entering. -
08-05-2020, 02:31 AMMicahZerrshiaQuote:
Originally Posted by DWolfwood
Quote:
Originally Posted by yajnaji
Quote:
Originally Posted by yajnaji
Just squint really hard, maybe you will see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by yajnaji
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08-05-2020, 03:39 AMSqwallLoL this is great!Quote:
Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia
https://media2.giphy.com/media/B62i7dpzzXNiE/source.gif