Savage is way to hard nerf it please!

Savage is Mid-core content its not even THAT difficult to clear, you just need to use ur brain and have hear me out... DECENT players in your party.
You dont need Ultimate tier players, pugs do clear Eden Savage raids anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cirque-it

Say whatver you want. but when you streamline your end game to cater only towards the top 1% of players you alienate the other 99%
Furthermore, savage is different in how the boss fights look. If there was an easy mode with the exact same mechanics/cutscenes (where the boss just doesnt insta kill you when you make a mistake) trust me I would be doing that mode and staying far away from savage. But the only way to experience all the visuals IS by doing savage (or youtubing it which is NOT the same)

---

The extra mechanics and boss forms are part of the reward for savage raiders. If you want to see them/ experience them, start doing savage raiding now, or unsync it next expansion.

This game is easy enough, it already caters mostly to the laid back and casual crowd. Why take this away from those who want real organized raiding. They are even taking away dungeon content because they are spending resources on AI groups. Maybe it is time to level out the playing field a little? I want to see more raiding- One set raid over the course of two years is not enough, I want to see a much harder (with decent rewards) dungeons like WoW mythic+ timed runs, etc.

They are homogenizing jobs more and more, crafting and leveling has become super easy mode, the regular dungeons have become even more easier. We need more challenging endgame content. And I doubt we will.

Pretty sure this person just wants an easy carry from all their complaining.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DubiousDisk

Pretty sure this person just wants an easy carry from all their complaining.

---

It's a bait thread from an obvious troll... It's has nothing to do with reality

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cirque-it

Say whatver you want. but when you streamline your end game to cater only towards the top 1% of players you alienate the other 99%
Furthermore, savage is different in how the boss fights look. If there was an easy mode with the exact same mechanics/cutscenes (where the boss just doesnt insta kill you when you make a mistake) trust me I would be doing that mode and staying far away from savage. But the only way to experience all the visuals IS by doing savage (or youtubing it which is NOT the same)

---

If you want to see all the visuals and extra phases....put the f***ing work in! Nothing in life is free. You know the price to experience the content. Pay it or move on.

Hard pass! It's savage for a reason and this is coming from a dirty casual!

Or maybe find better groups and keep at it? Savage is mean't to be more of a challenge the normal content.
I know people that pug Savage every tier, this one included and they have not reported what you have.

nothing in this mmorpg is actually hard though, for one it only requires 8 people learn the mechanics. And of course, these mechanics are heavily scripted and consistently the same.

Honestly, they need to allow parse meters. People who are being lazy or aren't giving 100% need to be told they are shit. If you don't want to give your best then you dont deserve to finish the quest.

agreed tbh, can we nerf ramuh orb ulitization and increase light rampant potential uptime for my monk? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dfess

Honestly, they need to allow parse meters. People who are being lazy or aren't giving 100% need to be told they are shit. If you don't want to give your best then you dont deserve to finish the quest.

---

It's high time to have an ingame parser for fairness sake alone.
Console players still need to rely on others to see how well exactly they did at any given time during a fight. As long as you don't see numbers and are able to analyze your performance you can memorize your rotation and feel good about yourself all day, you will remain ignorant to how punishing some mistakes are exactly or how many more you did while not even realizing it.
A lot of players remain ignorant of their own performance until someone uploaded a log (that is, if someone bothered AND made it public) just because they play on console.
Even if it's just a parser that only shows your number with your name and censors all other names but still showing their number so you have something to put it into perspective without knowing who exactly did how much.
That's something that wouldn't even contradict SEs policy in regards to parsers and potential harassment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Because they'd be highly entertained and stay subbed all patch if they beat all of Savage week one?

Anyway, they nerfed Savage for you ages ago. It's called Normal mode and fits what you're looking for perfectly, go check it out.

---

last I checked sarcasme doesn't fix any problem. go away

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rilifane

It's high time to have an ingame parser for fairness sake alone.
Console players still need to rely on others to see how well exactly they did at any given time during a fight. As long as you don't see numbers and are able to analyze your performance you can memorize your rotation and feel good about yourself all day, you will remain ignorant to how punishing some mistakes are exactly or how many more you did while not even realizing it.
A lot of players remain ignorant of their own performance until someone uploaded a log (that is, if someone bothered AND made it public) just because they play on console.
Even if it's just a parser that only shows your number with your name and censors all other names but still showing their number so you have something to put it into perspective without knowing who exactly did how much.
That's something that wouldn't even contradict SEs policy in regards to parsers and potential harassment.

---

Definately agree with this.. I hate not knowing if my damage is high enough

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rilifane

It's high time to have an ingame parser for fairness sake alone.
Console players still need to rely on others to see how well exactly they did at any given time during a fight. As long as you don't see numbers and are able to analyze your performance you can memorize your rotation and feel good about yourself all day, you will remain ignorant to how punishing some mistakes are exactly or how many more you did while not even realizing it.
A lot of players remain ignorant of their own performance until someone uploaded a log (that is, if someone bothered AND made it public) just because they play on console.
Even if it's just a parser that only shows your number with your name and censors all other names but still showing their number so you have something to put it into perspective without knowing who exactly did how much.
That's something that wouldn't even contradict SEs policy in regards to parsers and potential harassment.

---

It is my biggest bane especially as a ps4 pug player I have 1 parse on Ramuh from week 2 and I have killed him every week, so I zero idea if I have improved in that fight or gotten worse, a personal only parse would help immensely as a console player and allow me to try things out more at my leisure rather relying completely on random people to upload to check if any changes were beneficial or hazardous.

As a casual player who doesn't do savage (well, when I can't unsync it anyway)...some content simply isn't meant for the casual crowd. And that's okay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crushnight

It is my biggest bane especially as a ps4 pug player I have 1 parse on Ramuh from week 2 and I have killed him every week, so I zero idea if I have improved in that fight or gotten worse, a personal only parse would help immensely as a console player and allow me to try things out more at my leisure rather relying completely on random people to upload to check if any changes were beneficial or hazardous.

---

Two friends of mine have the same problem. Console players and pugging savage. They hate not knowing how they're doing and if they have improved. They don't want to be a liability and doing their best but as it is they can only hope they're doing well enough for the others.
One got booted without a word and ever since then he's really insecure and thinks that he's probably not very good; he would love to take his time to analyze his logs and see where his mistakes are but he can't. It's frustrating to be excluded from having access to important information just because you're on console. It would feel incredibly weird for me to do everything "blind"; analyzing my performance and seeing if I improved something or not over last weeks' kill is often the first thing I do after a raid.

There are enough ways to implement an ingame parser without giving nasty people the tools to harass others. So ToS and potential harassmant is definitely not an excuse.

I'm starting to think that Savage is causing too much stress for everyone on whatever the situation is. I feel like Savage is failing as a concept to be a fun challenge, and now its more like a mode where only stress, drama, and numbers are the ruling of the day.

This is no fault to Yoshida-san, the community here is turning this whole thing into a toxic wasteland.

the fact that they are making savage easier and easier is the problem, nobody complain how ultimate is to hard or anything, and savage is supposed to be end game contents, its supposed to be hard... until they make is easier that the casual player start doing it too and complain its too hard... they try to please everybody and fail make uo your mind whether savage is highend or no, dont just make them easy but put a high end label of them...

I think the issue here is patience and training, considering that Savage Raid Learning curve can take up a whole chunk of the day and that leaves a bit of a bad taste in people's mouths; usually it can take up a week or more for a person to be fully prepared for one tier of a savage raid and people's time is a valuable thing as they don't want to have to spend it every second of the day just for that and plus you would have to learn with it 7 others whose learning curve maybe slower or faster depending.

I think the best remedy is to give a non-rewarding mode just for Savage Raid training purposes so the players don't have to constantly die to see everything and what to expect. I find that it is better to do it that way than watch some youtube video or going in blind and die a bunch of times which is a big waste of time for everyone.

Teaching is the best medicine, and I'm sure there would be a upsurge in Savage participation if they allowed a Training Mode for each Savage Boss, so even the casual player can at least feel confident enough to know what the mechanics are under Savage Mode and there would be awhole lot less drama going on as a bonus.

Least that would be my solution to a compromise between the parties concerned, lets not fight eachother and actually work together for a solution that is fair to everyone.

The following excludes ultimates as thats its own little sideshow.

Everyone here missing the real issue.

Normal modes can be cleared by licking your keyboard.
Savage is puggable right now up to E7, E8 not so much so mainly requires a static.

So, what are we missing? The middle ground.

Solution:

Normal mode - for the lick your keyboard and win content.
Semi - Savage - for a bit more of a challenge, but all fights doable in PF (basically what we have now for E5-E7 and tone down E8 a little)
Savage - Make it harder again so statics have something that doesn't take under a week to clear.

Problem solved on so many levels.

I now have more content to do
I now have other ways to gear up (as mid/semi-savage level would offer an ilvl boost over normal but still lower than savage) and don't cap everything i can do to progress my char day 2 after reset.
Its a natural difficultly progression and the curve goes up smoother, rather than E5/6/7 being relatively easier to PF then BOOM NO E8 for you in PF.
With a better difficulty curve players can naturally get better as they can scale through the content and find where they hit a road block, rather than EZ mode to End game mode in one jump.
The gear curve can be a little smoother rather than going from normal mode to end game in one gear jump.

Games been begging for a mid-core level content for a while and we sort of have it now with what savage has become (minus the last fight of the raid tiers which become a bit of a nightmare to PF sometimes).

In short, keep savage as it is now for first 3 floors, but reduce the final fights difficulty a little, rename it to Not-as-savage raid tier.

Up the difficulty on actual savage for statics.

Ultimate is a completely different thing and isn't included in any of this just keep it as hardest content in the game and its own little thing.

Also add savage dungeons kkthnx.

Please show on this doll where Ramuh bad-touched you

Simple solution.

Make an extra mode. An "Savage-practice" mode for lack of better term.
This mode should be the exact same as the savage varient EXCEPT for the fact the machanics are FAR more forgiving. insta kills reducing your health to 50%

This mode should hand NO LOOT at the end (since you have not yet earned it)
But if you complete the battle correctly, you get a special achievement. The you can make create a party finder with a new mode "Duty-practice complete". Here you can look for other players whom have all practiced, done the work, know the mechanics but don't yet have the kill

I believe this mode would be a crucial middle step. as right now casual players that want to experience the savage content AND progress are completely lost. Not everyone has time to commit to a static group. people have full-time jobs. Some of us have multiple full-time jobs!! That should not forbid us from experience the ultimate encounters

I do think Light rampant on E8S is a liiiitle overtuned for the difficulty tier, only a little, but otherwise thus far everything has been as difficult as expected, as far as i can tell.

I don't even touch Savage Mode and I agree that it does need to stay. Just learn to PUG or don't do the content. It's that simple. It's really hard to take you seriously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cirque-it

If a raid is impossible to clear using its party finder mechanic, its too hard for an MMO in my opinion.

Eden Savage 5 is WAY to hard for an MMO.

---

I might agree with you but I know at least 6 people in my FC that have cleared E5s though E7s with party finder. I guess it's not to hard after all.

I'm going to put out that after clearing e5s, I think it ranks above Furor in difficulty. I'd rather have the first savage fight be EX primal level and then ramp them up from there since it gets people into savage that otherwise wouldn't be there. At the end of the day, though, WoW raiding lost a lot of it's luster with the introduction of Raid Finder because most people don't want to waste hours of their time dying repeatedly to stupid bosses that are numerically hard to defeat.

Let me put it this way: I will grind hardmode in Megaman Zero all day because it's about memorizing attack patterns, not maximizing DPS and praying you don't screw up. Savage content in this game (and just about all MMOs in this genre) is chucking a half-dozen or more people into a group, sticking a DPS timer onto the fight like a challenge mode, and praying that the people are all at the same level of mastery with the DDR mini game and aren't burned out from an 8 hour work day.

Let me give an example of what life is like for every person doing this content with pugs:

1) Finds a PF group.
2) Everyone is like "Hi!" and the stranger might say something like "Man, I've been grinding this for days and I swear I'm going to scream if we wipe one more time because XYZ happens..."
3) Group forms, go into instance, ready check.
4) Party dies to mechanic in the first 5 minutes of the fight.
5) Person rage quits. Someone points out person X did something wrong. Salt fills room.
6) At this point the group sits in PF and gets no one joining because they think it's a fail group, or the group disbands and starts from scratch.

And on top of all this lets say you do clear: The number of chests you get per week is limited by the number of people who have yet to complete the content. Some person misses a chest drop, they join another group, diminish the number of chests that group gets, and now people who could have gotten a two chest group are stuck with a one chest or zero chest group.

Oh, and if you do a later fight in the sequence, you forfeit your chance at a chest from a prior fight in the sequence.

... the OP wants to get into savage WHY?! It's like the more I actually think about what savage is, the more I feel like it is a waste of time and should be excised from the freaking game.

Sorry but this is a big no for my part.
I'm just about to clear E5S, and i didn't find it that difficult.
This goes for every other savage/extreme raid i've ever done in this game. The only fight that ever frustrated me was the Titan Extreme fight during ARR days, but even that was mostly because of my PCs performance issues during the fight, and not because of the actual difficulty.

But then again on JP servers people usually aren't very toxic in PF, and i was able to practice with the same group for an hour or so before we decided it was enough.
I can empathize with you for the toxicity, but difficulty shouldn't be toned down because there's some bad apples in the community.
Get some motivated people from PF or your LS/FC and you'll be fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kraniel

Sorry but this is a big no for my part.
I'm just about to clear E5S, and i didn't find it that difficult.
This goes for every other savage/extreme raid i've ever done in this game. The only fight that ever frustrated me was the Titan Extreme fight during ARR days, but even that was mostly because of my PCs performance issues during the fight, and not because of the actual difficulty.

But then again on JP servers people usually aren't very toxic in PF, and i was able to practice with the same group for an hour or so before we decided it was enough.
I can empathize with you for the toxicity, but difficulty shouldn't be toned down because there's some bad apples in the community.
Get some motivated people from PF or your LS/FC and you'll be fine.

---

The issue the OP is dealing with is the time they have to play the game and the condition of the players at that hour. Savage fights are best done when one is rested and in good condition: they do not work well for a worn out group of working class individuals in a late evening because a single mess up can break an entire fight. It's not until gear pushes past the hypothetical minimum level that people bypass the limitations from this. I've seen more than a fair share of people who have had 5+ nights of solid practice screw up over and over because of trying to do this on less than 6 hours of sleep and a 16 oz coffee.

The real crux of the issue is the content is branching outside of it's target audience due to the glamour. People want the dye applicable version of the eden armor and the weapon model to match. The only way to get that is to do the savage runs.

If the savage runs offered something more like a unique item for each area cleared, that would help separate the two crowds out. However, what the devs and company are scared of is that they wasted hours and hours of time building content to keep people in the game, only to have it fail to achieve the objective because it lacks any incentives. Case in point, the ONLY reason I'm even doing this is for dye applicable eden gear. I'd rather be doing just about anything else like Ishgard restoration or even just working on buying a house. I've literally never done savage content until this patch cycle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enla

Checking a certain site that shall be unnamed for very legitimate reasons it's almost definitely bait. Though not as finely crafted as that top percentile player who did the same exact topic a few months ago to similar amounts of sputtering outrage.

---

4chan isn't a swear you can just say so.

For anybody who thinks current Savage is too hard...you poor poor summer children. You know not of the horrors of Gordias. That tier almost destroyed the raiding community.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colt47

Case in point, the ONLY reason I'm even doing this is for dye applicable eden gear. I'd rather be doing just about anything else like Ishgard restoration or even just working on buying a house. I've literally never done savage content until this patch cycle.

---

I would personally wait until they unlock the restrictions then go farm it at that point if you're just after glamour. They're strict with the locking of chests at the beginning because they don't want to give max ilvl gear at a rapid pace. They eventually remove them where it won't matter who is in your group and the gear levels will make it easier to farm glamour. You'll just end up super frustrated trying to clear the entire thing if pugging Fulmination is driving you up the wall. Furor on the other hand just has backloaded mechanics. The first 3/4 of the fight is easy, mostly because they are showing you how each mechanic works at the beginning. The difficulty drastically increases at the end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colt47

The issue the OP is dealing with is the time they have to play the game and the condition of the players at that hour. Savage fights are best done when one is rested and in good condition: they do not work well for a worn out group of working class individuals in a late evening because a single mess up can break an entire fight. It's not until gear pushes past the hypothetical minimum level that people bypass the limitations from this. I've seen more than a fair share of people who have had 5+ nights of solid practice screw up over and over because of trying to do this on less than 6 hours of sleep and a 16 oz coffee.

The real crux of the issue is the content is branching outside of it's target audience due to the glamour. People want the dye applicable version of the eden armor and the weapon model to match. The only way to get that is to do the savage runs.

If the savage runs offered something more like a unique item for each area cleared, that would help separate the two crowds out. However, what the devs and company are scared of is that they wasted hours and hours of time building content to keep people in the game, only to have it fail to achieve the objective because it lacks any incentives. Case in point, the ONLY reason I'm even doing this is for dye applicable eden gear. I'd rather be doing just about anything else like Ishgard restoration or even just working on buying a house. I've literally never done savage content until this patch cycle.

---

I can totally get behind your argument regarding dyeable equipment being only obtainable through Savage. I actually do think it's a pretty big design flaw, since many casual players want to be able to use them in glamours, and they can't.
I myself adore the Eden's Gate healer armor, but just when i was about to get into savage mode, 5.2 dropped and people pretty much stopped grinding for the old stuff.

I'm a bit of both worlds : I do want the glamour, but that's not why i do Savage. I only do Savage for the challenge and for better gear.
Hence, i really don't think that locking dyeable versions of the raid equipment behind Savage was a good decision.
Obviously some people will disagree with this, but in my opinion, clearing Savage itself and getting higher iLvl gear is already enough of a reward for hardcore players. And then maybe add a bit of an aura on the raid weapon so that they can parade in town with it and show to everyone what they achieved.

Buuuuuut ... then, isn't this more of a reward issue, rather than a difficulty issue ?

However, when people have to Pug due to no time for a static and spend 5hours a day in Pf when they have free time in an attempt to get 1 re clear and parties disband after another because people can’t do mechs, that is a problem. I shouldn’t have to be told well then savage isn’t for you if I know the mechs, just because I can’t do a static doesn’t mean I should have to waste my time and never prog in the triad because I can’t get re-clears.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan69

However, when people have to Pug due to no time for a static and spend 5hours a day in Pf when they have free time in an attempt to get 1 re clear and parties disband after another because people can’t do mechs, that is a problem. I shouldn’t have to be told well then savage isn’t for you if I know the mechs, just because I can’t do a static doesn’t mean I should have to waste my time and never prog in the triad because I can’t get re-clears.

---

I don't really understand this weird idea that people who have less time have to pug instead of getting a static. Pugging actually takes way more time, because of all the waiting around to fill up, constant disbanding and progression/kills taking longer due to having no consistency.

A static does not mean you need to raid 4 hours every day or something - depending on the static you could raid a lot or very little, it's only about playing with the same group of people every time.
Having unstable work/life schedule might seem like an issue, but you can actually have a static that sets raid days/hours on a week-to-week basis, depending on when is everyone available - I've actually done Sigmascape like this and while it's not as comfy as a proper, fixed schedule, it can certainly work and is miles better than pugging. You still get the benefits of not having to waste time waiting in PF, know you can depend on the people you raid with and can use consistent strats that you all agreed on and know well.

If you can't find a static that fits your preferences - make one. Ask your FC members, your friends, look around on recruitment discords like ERC etc. You can even try setting something up with people you've met in PF, if you get lucky once in a while and find some decent players.
You just need to understand that a static like this might not have top performance(although tbh most statics don't anyways) - but it will still be better than pf, because of no waiting and consistency, as well as ability to work through any issues together.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Satarn

snip

---

This. So much.
People seem to think a static has to raid 3-4 times a week for 3h minimum when in fact there are statics who raid only 1-2 times per week with the days set on week-to-week basis. There are statics for people who work shifts, late, early etc. Plenty of statics raid for 2hours, they start a little later so everyone get eat, rest a bit etc. and stop a little sooner so everyone gets enough sleep/ has some free time before bed.
Everyone in my static has a full time job, some of them working in shifts, some self-employed with sometimes VERY tight and busy schedules.

Pugging can be fun in its own way and sometimes you get lucky and have some fantastic reclear parties who are in and out within an hour but other times you have bad luck and people wipe to the easiest mechanics. Best you can do is FL the people who played well and stick with them. And you know what? Suddenly you have a static without a fixed schedule.
It's not like you're the only person on this world to have this problem. Savage isn't too hard, many people pug it just fine and if you can't, then take the initiative and work around it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kraniel

Buuuuuut ... then, isn't this more of a reward issue, rather than a difficulty issue ?

---

Got me haha. Thats how this started for me anyway. It is also somewhat to able to experience al the cutscense in a game without having to complete the savage mode. I felt like higher Ilvl on your gear should be enough reward for HC players

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cirque-it

Simple solution.

Make an extra mode. An "Savage-practice" mode for lack of better term.
This mode should be the exact same as the savage varient EXCEPT for the fact the machanics are FAR more forgiving. insta kills reducing your health to 50%

This mode should hand NO LOOT at the end (since you have not yet earned it)
But if you complete the battle correctly, you get a special achievement. The you can make create a party finder with a new mode "Duty-practice complete". Here you can look for other players whom have all practiced, done the work, know the mechanics but don't yet have the kill

I believe this mode would be a crucial middle step. as right now casual players that want to experience the savage content AND progress are completely lost. Not everyone has time to commit to a static group. people have full-time jobs. Some of us have multiple full-time jobs!! That should not forbid us from experience the ultimate encounters

---

Yes! Thank you! We really need more players to participate and feel confident with the content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cirque-it

Simple solution.

Make an extra mode. An "Savage-practice" mode for lack of better term.
This mode should be the exact same as the savage varient EXCEPT for the fact the machanics are FAR more forgiving. insta kills reducing your health to 50%

This mode should hand NO LOOT at the end (since you have not yet earned it)
But if you complete the battle correctly, you get a special achievement. The you can make create a party finder with a new mode "Duty-practice complete". Here you can look for other players whom have all practiced, done the work, know the mechanics but don't yet have the kill

I believe this mode would be a crucial middle step. as right now casual players that want to experience the savage content AND progress are completely lost. Not everyone has time to commit to a static group. people have full-time jobs. Some of us have multiple full-time jobs!! That should not forbid us from experience the ultimate encounters

---

Thats called normal mode.

You can have a full time job and clear savage and ultimate. In fact, plenty of people do. You do not need to dedicate a long time to a static. Plenty of statics only dedicate 3 hours or less a week. You simply need to work to find one or make one that fits your schedule. Or just pug.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mavrias

Thats called normal mode.

You can have a full time job and clear savage and ultimate. In fact, plenty of people do. You do not need to dedicate a long time to a static. Plenty of statics only dedicate 3 hours or less a week. You simply need to work to find one or make one that fits your schedule. Or just pug.

---

Training with the different mechanics, normal mode can't provide that.