Smoking emote.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

While I wouldn't be opposed to a smoking emote, I can personally see how smoking is seen as worse than drinking. Alcohol every so often is fine, but smoking is rarely seen as fine for your health even if done in very small amounts and infrequently.



They're referring to how it is in real life. People have gotten cancer from living with smokers or working in a place that allows smoking. And I suppose a smoke emote could be seen as endorsing such behaviour. Someone drinking next to you cannot affect your health.

That being said there is an ashtray furnishing with a lit cigar.

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I know they are referring to real life. But the person they responded to was talking about the drinking EMOTE not drinking irl. A drinking emote doesn't actually make us drunk nor would a smoking emote effect anyones health is what I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I'd like this, but I know why it wouldn't be added.

There are children that play this game after all. T for Teen, but I consider teens children. Public health and wellness is taken differently in different countries and in the States, there are anti-smoking ads everywhere from billboards to radio. Glamorizing smoking is not good, and while not the intent- it's impressionable.

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Too late for that, smoking is already in the game.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

They're referring to how it is in real life. People have gotten cancer from living with smokers or working in a place that allows smoking. And I suppose a smoke emote could be seen as endorsing such behaviour. Someone drinking next to you cannot affect your health.

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We kill people by the thousands in this game, that's worse than cancer. Is killing thousands upon thousands an endorsement of mass murder? Sometimes killing people can affect your mental health, does that mean killing should be banned from this kid friendly game?

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Originally Posted by Edax

Too late for that, smoking is already in the game.


We kill people by the thousands in this game, that's worse than cancer. Is killing thousands upon thousands an endorsement of mass murder? Sometimes killing people can affect your mental health, does that mean killing should be banned from this kid friendly game?

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This^. Some people's inability to disconnect real life from this game is jarring. It's like me using the drinking emote, going into a dungeon and healing poorly, then blaming it on being drunk. Hell, with that logic we wouldn't even have a drinking emote in the first place because drinking in public is illegal.

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Originally Posted by Edax

We kill people by the thousands in this game, that's worse than cancer. Is killing thousands upon thousands an endorsement of mass murder? Sometimes killing people can affect your mental health, does that mean killing should be banned from this kid friendly game?

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Our characters kill out of necessity. Aside from something like medical marijuana no one smokes out of necessity. Smoking is typically a vice, not something a person must do to fight for their country, etc.

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Originally Posted by SweetestLily

This^. Some people's inability to disconnect real life from this game is jarring. It's like me using the drinking emote, going into a dungeon and healing poorly, then blaming it on being drunk. Hell, with that logic we wouldn't even have a drinking emote in the first place because drinking in public is illegal.

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I can disconnect from it, I even said I wouldn't mind such an emote. I just wanted to point out that allowing an emote like that come to the game could be seen as SE endorsing it. Though like I said earlier we already have an ashtray furnishing with a lit cigar. We're kind of halfway to the emote I guess.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Our characters kill out of necessity. Aside from something like medical marijuana no one smokes out of necessity. Smoking is typically a vice, not something a person must do to fight for their country, etc.



I can disconnect from it, I even said I wouldn't mind such an emote. I just wanted to point out that allowing an emote like that come to the game could be seen as SE endorsing it. Though like I said earlier we already have an ashtray furnishing with a lit cigar. We're kind of halfway to the emote I guess.

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Necessity in what way? I know of people that simply cannot function with a vape pen or smoke in near by / take a hit often throughout the day. Just because something is a vice does not mean it cannot become a nescessity for a person.

Granted, I get where you are coming from.

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Originally Posted by Krojack

Main different is, I can be sitting next to someone drinking and it won't effect my health while sitting next to a smoker does.

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Being next to someone who is drinking can affect your life in many negative ways none of which are passive (unlike smoking).

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Personally, I am not a fan.... others might disagree, but it is a very unhealthy habit that I consider disgusting.... and while this is not a real world, I do think that it could be "glamorizing" it for younger players. I'm not trying to judge, I was a smoker for many years.

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Perhaps, but i think if such a thing were made, this would be one of the few things that would actually be acceptable to put on the mogstation and charge extra for, so that only the most hardcore RPers would buy it. NPC's already have smoking emotes - I dont think excluding it from player control would really do much. SE gets away with it on NPCs because they never explicitly state what is being smoked.

I have an ashtray with a smoldering cigar in my house, which would seem to indicate my character smokes, so I'm for it.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Our characters kill out of necessity.

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Yeah, right.
NPC: "You there! Go over to that boat, kill everyone there and burn their supplies. I'll give you a shiny sea shell for the deed"
WoL: *stoic nod*

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Our characters kill out of necessity. Aside from something like medical marijuana no one smokes out of necessity. Smoking is typically a vice, not something a person must do to fight for their country, etc.

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What necessity pray tell?
"Know that I'll kill your god if I have to. Maybe even if I don't."

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Except for all the death, war, alcohol, drug use, the strip club in eulmore, human trafficking, child soldiers, prostitution, the npcs who can be already seen smoking.

Yeah. Totally family friendly.

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Do we have emotes for using drugs, prostitution or other forms of self harm? No. Smoking, self-cutting and choking, for example, are a different kind darkness compared to fighting in a war for the purpose of defending ourselves (not to invade and conquer). Alcohol use is only implied since the drinking emote doesn't send us staggering and passing out. And lol, that strip club where clothed people are just chilling and snapping their fingers to the music is the definition of family friendly.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

That being said there is an ashtray furnishing with a lit cigar.

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There are furnishings with knives and other sharp things. Having an emote where we actively use those things on our own characters would be considered tasteless and off putting. To me, a cigar on a tray is different from actually using it our character in social settings.

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Originally Posted by Luthiene

I think it could be cute to have a LOTR inspired longbottom leaf emote. Not sure if anything else fits in with the fantasy world of the game.

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Only if we get the smoke ship travelling through the ring :D

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Do we have emotes for using drugs, prostitution or other forms of self harm? No. Smoking, self-cutting and choking, for example, are a different kind darkness compared to fighting in a war for the purpose of defending ourselves (not to invade and conquer). Alcohol use is only implied since the drinking emote doesn't send us staggering and passing out. And lol, that strip club where clothed people are just chilling and snapping their fingers to the music is the definition of family friendly.



There are furnishings with knives and other sharp things. Having an emote where we actively use those things on our own characters would be considered tasteless and off putting. To me, a cigar on a tray is different from actually using it our character in social settings.

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Speaking of knivies, I would love to the rogue knife flipping emote.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Do we have emotes for using drugs, prostitution or other forms of self harm? No. Smoking, self-cutting and choking, for example, are a different kind darkness compared to fighting in a war for the purpose of defending ourselves (not to invade and conquer). Alcohol use is only implied since the drinking emote doesn't send us staggering and passing out. And lol, that strip club where clothed people are just chilling and snapping their fingers to the music is the definition of family friendly.



There are furnishings with knives and other sharp things. Having an emote where we actively use those things on our own characters would be considered tasteless and off putting. To me, a cigar on a tray is different from actually using it our character in social settings.

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Did... Did you just literally call cutting yourself and smoking a pipe equivalent? That's actually just insulting.

I wouldn't use this emote myself - I smoked most of my life but stopped two years ago - but I wouldn't be outraged if they added it. I doubt they will however

I had wanted this very thing back in October for a cosplay glamour competition.

Had wanted to do Marla from Fight Club, but it would be great for other character's as well.

Don't see much use of it outside that though.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Except for all the death, war, alcohol, drug use, the strip club in eulmore, human trafficking, child soldiers, prostitution, the npcs who can be already seen smoking.

Yeah. Totally family friendly.

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But these things are shown as bad in story. It would be a bit different if the WoL could take part in human trafficking for example. Death is natural, war is not shown as great, drug use is also bad. The strip clubs themselves are also nothing that harms your health and the rest is not shown in a positive light. Having alcohol ingame is already enough but smoking for the character might give some people the idea to try it out themselves because our character does it thus its cool. So imo there is a difference between that.

I myself I am not really sure if I would be okay with it or not. It could promote that horrible thing more but at the other side its just a game. So I guess I am neutral on it?

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Originally Posted by Alleo

But these things are shown as bad in story. It would be a bit different if the WoL could take part in human trafficking for example. Death is natural, war is not shown as great, drug use is also bad. The strip clubs themselves are also nothing that harms your health and the rest is not shown in a positive light. Having alcohol ingame is already enough but smoking for the character might give some people the idea to try it out themselves because our character does it thus its cool. So imo there is a difference between that.

I myself I am not really sure if I would be okay with it or not. It could promote that horrible thing more but at the other side its just a game. So I guess I am neutral on it?

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So, quick question. What part of "only the bad guys do this" makes the game family friendly? Those themes still exist in game.

Not to mention the fact that "kids might think smoking is cool and good" is very much reminiscent of the "video games cause violence irl" pearl clutching.

If players want it, let them have it. It hurts no one.

Can't wait for /slapping and blaming those emote-users for giving me passive smoking pixel-cancer

Only bad guys smoke? I think some people missed the Carpenter quests, when you're asked to craft some forniture for a bar that you think would attract more clients, and you decide to craft some forniture for smoking, and everybody praises you for it, including Beatin. But I guess we're the bad guys and so is Beatin and so the people of Kugane who love it and who smoke the pipe the whole time?

And yes, drinking is as bad as smoking, but nobody seems to have a problem with drinking emotes.

I hate smoking in real life, but I'd be all for a pipe smoking emote in game. Our character does way worse things on a daily basis, as mentioned by others already.

Yoshi's already talked about this and how there's a difference between showing something and allowing the player to actively do something. It's why they were allowed to have Raubahn's arm get cut off, but weren't allowed to cut off the Rathalos tail.

If they gave us a button that just let us smoke the rating would probably have to be redone.

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

If they gave us a button that just let us smoke the rating would probably have to be redone.

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The ERSB rating already mentions "use of Tobacco", nothing would change.

https://i.redd.it/c8qwhdpfimr21.png

There's more than one ratings board. And some weigh player use heavier than just depiction.

Edit: for example, Pegi would probably bump it from a 16 to an 18.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYpTKHZX4AMuDO1.png

I'm not sure how the Japan Cero would react, but Yoshi specifically mentioned coming to blows with them over other aspects.

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

There's more than one ratings board. And some weigh player use heavier than just depiction.

Edit: for example, Pegi would probably bump it from a 16 to an 18.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYpTKHZX4AMuDO1.png

I'm not sure how the Japan Cero would react, but Yoshi specifically mentioned coming to blows with them over other aspects.

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But it says that PEGI16 includes tobacco etc.
And we already have a drinking emote, and that's precisely under the same PEGI category (reasonably so).

All I'm doing is just repeating the exact same arguments Yoshi himself gave the last time this came up: that it's possible, but age ratings don't play nicely with it. I'm going to trust the guy who's entire job it is to manage this sort of stuff, tbh.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Did... Did you just literally call cutting yourself and smoking a pipe equivalent? That's actually just insulting.

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Describing what I said is not an argument against it. How offended you feel isn't either.

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

All I'm doing is just repeating the exact same arguments Yoshi himself gave the last time this came up: that it's possible, but age ratings don't play nicely with it. I'm going to trust the guy who's entire job it is to manage this sort of stuff, tbh.

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I wouldn't if he believes that he's either an idiot or brainwashed. The age rating is targeted to teens which are fully aware of smoking hell most of them play games its flat out thrown in peoples faces.. Beside the rating on the game already PERMITS sexual content/drinking and tobacco use... Upon enter the game it already tells you its rated for that content.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Describing what I said is not an argument against it. How offended you feel isn't either.

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If you think smoking and self mutilation/ suicidal actions are the same i don't have anything to argue with you about. There's just something wrong with you. You're taking your anti-smoking stance a tad far. Smoking any sort of substance is not akin to self mutilation or suicide. You really need to not make comparisons to things you clearly know nothing about/ haven't seen someone go through.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

If you think smoking and self mutilation/ suicidal actions are the same i don't have anything to argue with you about. There's just something wrong with you. You're taking your anti-smoking stance a tad far. Smoking any sort of substance is not akin to self mutilation or suicide. You really need to not make comparisons to things you clearly know nothing about/ haven't seen someone go through.

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I've known multiple people (myself included) who have gone through suicidal self harm and I'm sure they wouldn't give 2 damns about what that user posted. Don't look for outrage where there's none.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

If you think smoking and self mutilation/ suicidal actions are the same i don't have anything to argue with you about. There's just something wrong with you. You're taking your anti-smoking stance a tad far. Smoking any sort of substance is not akin to self mutilation or suicide. You really need to not make comparisons to things you clearly know nothing about/ haven't seen someone go through.

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So you still can't offer any reasons why I'm wrong. Alright! I equated smoking to self-harm because it meets the definition. Merriam-Webster:

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Definition of self-harm
: the act of purposely hurting oneself (as by cutting or burning the skin) as an emotional coping mechanism

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Reasons people smoke:

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Feeling down or sad
Having trouble sleeping
Feeling irritable‚ on edge‚ grouchy
Having trouble thinking clearly and concentrating
Feeling restless and jumpy
Slower heart rate
Feeling more hungry or gaining weight

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You could argue that self-cutting is a more severe form of self-harm and often accompanied by more serious mental problems than smoking. On the other hand, smoking causes irreversible damage to internal organs, can physically hurt people around you, is more difficult to stop and shortens the life span. Both are bad in their own right and share the element of being destructive habits, something our characters are not yet able to express with emotes. And why should we be able to do that? Smoking is a more culturally acceptable form of self-harm, but this is actually a point against including it in the game and other forms of entertainment.

Getting back to the original question: yes I would like a smoking emote. Many NPC's already smoke.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

I've known multiple people (myself included) who have gone through suicidal self harm and I'm sure they wouldn't give 2 damns about what that user posted. Don't look for outrage where there's none.

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Quite frankly, i dont know you, and i dont know your friends. But i do know me and mine, and i think they would also find that comparison stupid and insensitive. I'm not looking for outrage, i'm giving my opinion. Feel free to disagree. I'm not looking for your support tbh.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

So you still can't offer any reasons why I'm wrong. Alright! I equated smoking to self-harm because it meets the definition. Merriam-Webster:



Reasons people smoke:



You could argue that self-cutting is a more severe form of self-harm and often accompanied by more serious mental problems than smoking. On the other hand, smoking causes irreversible damage to internal organs, can physically hurt people around you, is more difficult to stop and shortens the life span. Both are bad in their own right and share the element of being destructive habits, something our characters are not yet able to express with emotes. And why should we be able to do that? Smoking is a more culturally acceptable form of self-harm, but this is actually a point against including it in the game and other forms of entertainment.

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um lol
1st of all, who cares about culturally culture changes every 4 years anyways so really...
Second, there are other reasons that people smoke... Hell, I Occasionally smoke after Test/ or doing something that took a lot of thinking to relax so that right there disproves all of that statement.
Third. Many native cultures smoked from pipes as rituals and religions moments.
4th... Well, I shouldn't go into it, but I'll just leave it at there is no such thing as mental illness that's what people who are inferior to those of us who are better than them that they place that term on people that are diffrent in any aspect.
5th. Its noones business at all rather its self harm or not if your not living in that persons body you have no right to judge or be in their business and should piss off and mind your own business.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

So you still can't offer any reasons why I'm wrong. Alright! I equated smoking to self-harm because it meets the definition. Merriam-Webster:



Reasons people smoke:



You could argue that self-cutting is a more severe form of self-harm and often accompanied by more serious mental problems than smoking. On the other hand, smoking causes irreversible damage to internal organs, can physically hurt people around you, is more difficult to stop and shortens the life span. Both are bad in their own right and share the element of being destructive habits, something our characters are not yet able to express with emotes. And why should we be able to do that? Smoking is a more culturally acceptable form of self-harm, but this is actually a point against including it in the game and other forms of entertainment.

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I can list a million and one things that can be considered self harm by your frankly vague definition. A bad habit is fundamentally different from self-mutilation.

Damn, man, didn't know tobacco was the only thing that can be smoked. Especially since thats not the plant even listed in game as being what NPCs use. Also nice job pretending that those "reasons" you listed weren't literally ripped directly from the withdrawal symptoms section of your source. That's just dishonest academic practice, bro.

If a smoking emote is implemented, you don't have to use it. I don't know who gave ya cancer with their second hand smoke but i promise you, you can't get it from pixels in a video game.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Quite frankly, i dont know you, and i dont know your friends. But i do know me and mine, and i think they would also find that comparison stupid and insensitive. I'm not looking for outrage, i'm giving my opinion. Feel free to disagree. I'm not looking for your support tbh.

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It's fine to have an opinion, but you should at least present it in a respectful manner and accept the fact that others will disagree. Getting emotional about it doesn't give it more credibility, in fact it reduces credibility imo.

Your posts:

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Did... Did you just literally call cutting yourself and smoking a pipe equivalent? That's actually just insulting.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

If you think smoking and self mutilation/ suicidal actions are the same i don't have anything to argue with you about. There's just something wrong with you. You're taking your anti-smoking stance a tad far. Smoking any sort of substance is not akin to self mutilation or suicide. You really need to not make comparisons to things you clearly know nothing about/ haven't seen someone go through.

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I don't really see this as simply presenting your opinion, but rather an attempt to take moral high ground and demonize the person you're replying to.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

It's fine to have an opinion, but you should at least present it in a respectful manner and accept the fact that others will disagree. Getting emotional about it doesn't give it more credibility, in fact it reduces credibility imo.

Your posts:



I don't really see this as simply presenting your opinion, but rather an attempt to take moral high ground and demonize the person you're replying to.

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If that's trying to take a moral high ground or demonizing to you I don't know what to say to you other than "i'm sorry you don't like my opinion or tone, but i'm not going to stop."

If you also think those things are the same, that's you. I'm going to continue to vehemently disagree, openly and vocally.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

If that's trying to take a moral high ground or demonizing to you I don't know what to say to you other than "i'm sorry you don't like my opinion or tone, but i'm not going to stop."

If you also think those things are the same, that's you. I'm going to continue to vehemently disagree, openly and vocally.

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If that's the way you talk normally and present your opinions, and it's an accepted way for discourse, then I might have misunderstood your intentions. In all honesty though I kind of doubt it, but I guess I'll have to take your word for it.

As an aside, I actually don't agree with the person you were replying to. Just felt like they were being treated unfairly, that's all.

These must be some good mole hills for y'all to be dyin' on them.

I'd say the distinction between self harm and smoking is, as the quoted Merriam-Webster definition states, purpose versus consequence. The person who commits self harm is purposefully harming themselves to fulfil their desired relief. The smoker's injury comes from a consequence they choose to either ignore or accept as a a trade, rather than the act it's self.

You could make a similar argument about any form of self gratification with health consequences, like eating in a less than perfectly healthy manner because food tastes good.