Far less frequently as in my retainers have been up for 36 hours in Ul'dah now on Mysidia as opposed crashing every 3 hours. Not perfect but still an improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by trinta
Any word on when we will get an Auction House?
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03-08-2011, 04:53 PMAarosLunos
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03-08-2011, 04:53 PMBetelgeuzahIsn't it obvious? The marketplace already functions almost exactly like an AH, so the people asking for 'AH' are requesting SE to do a lot more work for little gain. The AH in this game is called the Marketplace, and some people have yet to realize that. Wake up, people. What we need is a Marketplace that functions like an AH, not 'an AH'.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinChuck
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03-08-2011, 04:55 PMKarbine
I look forward to the number of extra features the wards provide over an AH. Granted an ah might be easier now,who knows what the have in store for the future. I would like to see prise history though when itens are NOT up on ah so you still have something to go by.
Oh and the crashes. Then Im content.: ) -
03-08-2011, 04:55 PMtrintaA marketplace that functions like an AH is an AH. Give me the ability to buy from the search screen. This cannot possibly be the amazing programming feat that some of you would have us believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
(edited for grammar fail) -
03-08-2011, 05:00 PMNataku
Hey I have a question for the ward lovers:
How do you guys determine a price to sell an item that no one else has up?
I mean other than go on YG or something to look at a PRICE HISTORY?
How do you know you are not getting ripped off by someone who is the only person selling the item?
I mean other than go on YG or something to look at a PRICE HISTORY?
Please just save us all the trouble and give us an AH...
PS: If not, can we at least be able to see what was just sold in our retainers? Am I to remember evrything I put up and at what price I had it up? Goddam wards is so backwards.... -
03-08-2011, 05:00 PMShinChuckMy point exactly. People keep saying, "But the Wards are BETTER than an AH!" when the Wards are, in their current form, fundamental Auction Houses, just bloated and unintuitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
People keep saying "I look forward to the extra functions of wards!" or "Wards could be superior to AHs!" without elaborating. Retainers? They can be kept as mules - they're nothing more than banks or mog houses, and it could be set up easily so we could access them outside of Wards areas. What other "benefits" could we see?
Market Wards were designed to be bazaar-style shopping, with a luck-based rummage sale sort of mentality. Those wards died the second the search feature was added. People keep talking "Wards" and "AHs" but they're speaking of the *exact same thing* at this point. I repeat: Market Wards as a concept as dead. The current "Market Wards" are basic, featureless Auction Houses, and it's silly to keep talking about them as if they're some new original invention and not the same old (but tried and true AH) economic system every other MMO has. -
03-08-2011, 05:01 PMBetelgeuzahYes, that's what's needed. Not this magical "Auction House" like described in the thread title.Quote:
Originally Posted by trinta
Also, a marketplace that functions like an AH is a marketplace that functions like an AH. Some people will still not be satisfied before it is called "the AH" though, no matter how similar it is in concept.
"Wards" are the AH. When people say they look forward to extra functions of wards, it's the same as saying they look forward to extra functions of an AH. Although as mentioned "the wards" are not just the AH, as they offer features that are not available in a traditional AH. Which is why calling the system "an AH" is not correct. An AH doesn't store items for you.Quote:
People keep saying "I look forward to the extra functions of wards!" or "Wards could be superior to AHs!" without elaborating.
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03-08-2011, 05:02 PMVictorAaaaagreed. They are simply a primitive auction house that take up more time than necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinChuck
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03-08-2011, 05:04 PMtrintaI'll be satisfied when I have something that functions like an AH. To this point, that's not what we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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03-08-2011, 05:09 PMTonyMontana
I am suprised to see several people saying that we dont need an auction house, well actually several people are saying we dont need an auction house right now, resources should be spent on content.
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03-08-2011, 05:11 PMCaimon
The retainers have a level, and I am pretty sure eventually they will have things to do that increase these levels. So, they must have something beyond a simple storage bag planned for these contraptions. I am willing to see where they go with this idea.
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03-08-2011, 05:11 PMHayaHimeYes, we don't NEED AH!Quote:
Originally Posted by Defmetal
I love Market wards system and i'm sure Yoshi-P and his crew will make it even better in the future. -
03-08-2011, 05:12 PMOJtheLIONKingThis. And as you can see from posts and (more importantly) the poll results, we are NOT in agreement that the system is fine as it is, and most players do want an AH where they can simply buy what they search for instead of having to manually walk there. A price history is also needed, as it is I either need to hope there's a few items so I know what to list sale prices are, or check a site like ffxivpro, and when I need to check a third party site for a basic economic transaction something has gone wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by trinta
The wards are just one example of the many extraneous time sinks of this game that keep people on a limited schedule from maximizing their time enjoying the content. Thankfully, the producer seems to recognize this and hopefully an AH will arrive soon that will cut out the flab and let me actually play the game as opposed to waste time with busywork. -
03-08-2011, 05:13 PMShinChuckYes, Wards are the AH - exactly what I said earlier in this topic long before you posted. My issue was simply that people were not acknowledging that as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
What features do AHs offer that traditional AHs don't? You're mixing two systems - the Market Wards do not store items for you. Retainers do. And, as stated by myself and many others throughout the history of XIV, there's no reason Retainers couldn't be accessed from elsewhere. -
03-08-2011, 05:15 PMShinChuckI agree, the crew will make the basic Auction House we currently have better in the future, since they ditched the Wards system by definition as soon as they added a search function.Quote:
Originally Posted by HayaHime
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03-08-2011, 05:17 PMBetelgeuzahYes, they are. The only people not acknowledging it are those who want a separate AH instead of improving the Marketplace.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinChuck
And you do not use the Market Wards to sell or buy items for you- you use the Retainers.Quote:
What features do AHs offer that traditional AHs don't? You're mixing two systems - the Market Wards do not store items for you. Retainers do.
The two systems are so closely integrated that it is silly to think that they should be kept separate. Without Retainers the Marketplace wouldn't function. They are as crucial part of the system as the item search screen is. Even more so in-fact. Should the item search function be kept separate from the Marketplace too? -
03-08-2011, 05:22 PMShinChuckYou're being entirely too literal. The Marketplace *is* a basic AH. The people asking for an AH would be quite content to have the Wards improved to match a traditional AH's offerings. And yet, the entire topic is full of people saying they *don't* want an AH, they like the *wards* better - when at this point they're referring to a rose by different names. And a rose is still a rose by any other name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Er, why not? As someone else posted, Retainers have a level - it would be an easy transition to Adventuring Fellow/mule. They are not a crucial part, at all. They are simply random stand-ins that don't need to be there, an arbitrary location to go to to receive an item. There's really no reason not to do it all from a menu at this point. The concept of Retainers as sellers is a relic of the *dead* original concept behind Wards.Quote:
And you do not use the Market Wards to sell or buy items for you- you use the Retainers.
The two systems are so closely integrated that it is silly to think that they should be kept separate. Without Retainers the Marketplace wouldn't function. They are as crucial part of the system as the item search screen is. Even more so in-fact. Should the item search function be kept separate from the Marketplace too?
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03-08-2011, 05:22 PMJojo
I understand both people's sides on this debate but I do have to chime in here in favor of an auction house. Why? This is the process I go through in order to find armor for myself:
1. I go to zam and do a search for the optimal armor for my level and class. (I actually like to wear armor that benefits me and isn't the highest level)
2. I go to the market ward and hope someone is selling what I need.
3. No one is selling what I need so I go back to zam and find something else I might could use.
4. Rinse repeat.
Sure once I know what I want I can just go and search for it but it would really be nice to go to the wards and just browse... and not have to go to any external site to find out info about what armor I'd need for my rank. Ideally I'd like an AH that let's you search for items/armor by rank and class and that only shows you items that are actually there. (Maybe this has changed but last I checked it would show an item even if it had 0 there.)
In other games one of my favorite things to do is go and just browse the auction house and see what is on there. I can spend forever just looking through things and making plans for how much money I need to gather etc etc.
For me it isn't a "OMG DO THIS NOW." type of thing because the one that is out there now is workable... but it sure would be nice for those of us who like to window shop to be able to do so and not have to rely on fansites to help us make those decisions every time. -
03-08-2011, 05:23 PMtrintaI do, however, use the Market Wards to search for the items I am going to buy (or to help price the ones I'm going to sell)--these are not retainer-based functions, they are AH functions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
They are separate, as noted above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
But an AH would function just fine without retainer involvement. Why do you want to make things harder than they have to be?Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
My two retainers hold specific categories of items. If I'm in Gridania and my bags are full of logs, but my carpentry retainer is selling Ul'dah, I have to have him quit selling in order to manage my inventory. An AH does not present this difficulty.
AH please. -
03-08-2011, 05:31 PMNataku
This has been discussed so much in other forums and I still have yet to hear one good reason why we should keep the wards and not have an AH.
1. I would bet that 95% of people go on websites like YG to look for items and price history ANYWAYS, so why not just have an AH??
2.How do you people know how much to buy and sell without a decent price history??
3. Why do you like to go through extra steps to buy stuff??
4. Whydo you like the fact that you can't even see what you just sold??
5. Don't you think the economy will move faster when things are less of a hassle to buy and sell? -
03-08-2011, 05:35 PMSonic_the_Hedgehog
Chalk me up for No Auction House.
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03-08-2011, 05:35 PMMaken-Ifrit
Auction House please !!! Just like FFXI auction house, its simple and effective.
I mean if I want to buy several things, I don't need to remember which market ward I should go,
what retainer name I should click. Keep loading & repeat the whole process again & again...what a dumb.
Also such kind of wax museum design was total folly without any artistic mean or fun purpose. -
03-08-2011, 05:35 PMRaansu
"lol wards crashed"
The wards are nothing but a headache and need to go away and be replaced by a more streamlined setup such as an AH. For starters, people who try to sell assorted items are pretty much stuck with choosing a random ward simply because they are trying to sell a variety of stuff.
Searching for + items is a pain because the search list doesn't show if its normal or +1,2 etc... So you have to constantly look through different wards, run to the stupid retainer, find that its not a +1, load another ward, run the another retainer. Its just an unnecessary hassle, its stupid.
With an AH, everything is there at the counter, you don't have to constantly load to other zones looking for items, and the server wont have to deal with all those damn retainers, so its less stress on the server.
The wards was a terrible idea from the get go, and anyone who defends it is an idiot. -
03-08-2011, 05:36 PMPeregrine
For the question about what I do if there is no sales history: I make a judgment based on how hard the mats and synth is and why I made it. If I accidentally made a HQ electrum ring while grinding that may be a nice item but there's no way its worth 100k. For hq tools and weapons I start way high if there is no other on the market.
Many people wonder why not use an ah if this system approximates it. Reason number one is you can't bot this system. Reason number two is you can't exhaust five item markets by your lonesome with all that footwork required to dominate it. You may be able to swipe up all the tin and copper hq ores, but not like spam a 1-point ah constantly for a dozen types of items.
This system makes it way more likely that the items get into the hands of people who want to use them, not just people who often hold items for ransom from other players because the ah let them get there first.
But the biggest fore is the anti- botting nature of the wards. -
03-08-2011, 05:38 PMShinChuckNow that we have a basic one, there's no way they're getting rid of it, I'm afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog
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03-08-2011, 05:38 PMWynn
What we have now is basically an auction house. You just have to go pick up your junk.
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03-08-2011, 05:39 PMAarosLunosThis is actually the wrong tone to have here :). Should be having an open rational discussion without insults.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raansu
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03-08-2011, 05:43 PMShinChuckBut there's a problem with that: you're sacrificing a massive amount of convenience, punishing those of us who AREN'T being shady, to slow down (but not stop) people who do play shady. And throw in big RMT groups, and it's a done deal - they won't be slowed down AT ALL, essentially giving them an *advantage* over individual players playing by the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
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03-08-2011, 05:44 PMCaimonExcellent points. I was trying to say the same thing and saw your post, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
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03-08-2011, 05:47 PMNatakuBut people don't easily exhuast 5 items. And people catch on fairly quickly when someone is trying to monopolize and raise prices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
My point is that without price histories, it is even easier to rip people off. I can easily track down who has what, buy them up, and then with no price history available, I jack up the price for the unsuspecting kid looking for my item.
There is a reason why an overwhelming amount of people use YG and other sites. They NEED that price history, it simply makes it so much easier and less of a headache.
Botting and RMT aren't even a big deal considering how easy it is to get money in the game already.
All said and done, the AH has more pros than cons, while the wards has more cons than pros. -
03-08-2011, 05:58 PMAldwin
I think one reason people want an ah, myself included, is that an ah creates a somewhat stable economy. Yes it can be manipulated, the market wards can be too.
Connecting all 3 main city wards I don't think would be a good idea either. Sure it would be nice to be able to buy from any city, but the market ward system I don't think can support a very large playerbase, not without zoning in to find 999999999999999999999 retainers.
I would like an auction house, but I don't feel it should be top priority right now. -
03-08-2011, 06:03 PMPeregrine
I will gladly pick up my crap on foot if it means no one can bot the activity. A single ah botter does worse things for your convenience than running ever would. First, they get rewarded as if they played there times more than you do. Second you'll never see the items on ah for prices that are acceptable.
Essentially I would rather run than never have a chance at it or be thoroughly whipped by a cheater in my own craft. -
03-08-2011, 06:08 PMShinChuckIt's nice you're willing to decide for the entire population what their time, effort and convenience is worth, and you might be all for sacrificing freedom and convenience to stop minor cases of illegal activity (maybe SE can set up cameras on every corner to watch EVERYBODY and be sure nobody's doing anything shady), but just because you'd be willing to make the sacrifice, doesn't mean it's fair to ask everyone to, especially when using anecdotal evidence to make a decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
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03-08-2011, 06:10 PMPeregrine
For the idea that hiding info from consumers leads to ripoffs and hustlers I agree. That is the biggest drawback of thus system is that consumers have a right to know. However, as soon as that info is released then producers will use it to falsify the info anyway.
Overall I think this system keeps things more honest. I think sales histories would lead to immediate and raging inflation. -
03-08-2011, 06:13 PMnRosenberg
I prefer not to have an auction house. Market Wards are much more realistic. (Not to say that it is realistic, just that it's a bit less "senseless")
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03-08-2011, 06:15 PMBetelgeuzahThen they should say that instead of asking for an AH. That's my point here. There are two ways to interpret what they are saying, so they should clarify. Those who say they don't want an AH because the marketplace is fine could clarify what they mean as well, but it's not too necessary. I mean, I'm sure they are not against improved marketplace [and everything included, not just AH] either.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinChuck
Why should they change it? You are asking for them to do unnecessary work. Both can co-exist as well. But before that happens, the two systems are closely integrated and thus do not need to be kept separate in the discussion.Quote:
Er, why not? As someone else posted, Retainers have a level - it would be an easy transition to Adventuring Fellow/mule. They are not a crucial part, at all. They are simply random stand-ins that don't need to be there, an arbitrary location to go to to receive an item. There's really no reason not to do it all from a menu at this point. The concept of Retainers as sellers is a relic of the *dead* original concept behind Wards.
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03-08-2011, 06:16 PMPeregrine
They are not minor cases. AH botting and price speculation...market playing....were huge issues in 11. Botting dominates whatever activity that it can be used for, and you can never compete with it as a human. It only takes one botter for you to never be able to get an item on the ah for as long as they bot it unless you sit there and spam like it does. Eventually you have to sleep. It keeps scavenging the item you want.
So to me your choice is to pick up your items or pretty much pick up a pickaxe and run further. -
03-08-2011, 06:26 PMShinChuckI'm not even sure what your point is, honestly. The people who are asking for an AH don't want a literal AH with nothing else sufficing ever. They want the same functions as an AH, whether a separate entity or with the basic AH functions of the Wards upgraded to accomplish that. And on the other side, saying "I liked Wards better than AHs" is like saying "I like dogs better than canines."Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
It's been shown multiple times that there's no reason they must be kept together, and anymore are really *unnecessarily* connected. Retainers buying and selling is a concept for the old bazaar-style wards. It is now an outdated relic that only adds *unnecessary work* to the system. That's why they should change it.Quote:
Why should they change it? You are asking for them to do unnecessary work. Both can co-exist as well. But before that happens, the two systems are closely integrated and thus do not need to be kept separate in the discussion.
That's absolutely not my choice. I've played XI for a while and NEVER had issues to the level you're implying by any means. Hecked, I've played MMOs since they were text based in the early 90s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
You're telling me I need to sacrifice convenience (convenience other games, including XI) allow me to deal with "bots" as if that's the only way to deal with botters, as if SE can't and hasn't banned them before. Numerous games, including games like WoW, have survived with *gasp* an Auction House that didn't require running, and botters did not ruin them.
It sounds like you're on a bit of witch hunt with this. I don't see many others freaking out about botters. -
03-08-2011, 06:27 PMAreeyaJaidee
No auction House. The Market Wards do everything plus keep players from being lazy. Why would SE put all that work into revising Market Wards repeatedly to make it function better and then give us a AH?
Face the music: Retainers exist. Market Wards exist. They both work. That's all we need. -
03-08-2011, 06:29 PMGath
I can see making the retainers have more options to make them more like salespeople and make you feel like you're interacting with the people in game ^^v