Thank you, Square, for listening to the majority.

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

We may disagree that world visit in Firmament wasn't the main issue, but it was a big enough issue that SE and Yoshida himself had to address it. Them's the facts.

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Not going to dispute that it was a big issue, the fact that action was taken is categorically clear on that. I just feel it was a cop-out and all it did was breed animosity to our fellow players to the point that 1. people felt the need to congest another's world (whether they helped or not) and 2. The first thought that came to people's minds was to slaughter their fellow player and not stop to think that actually, the implementation was dreadful. They knew this was a very real risk and still did it.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Really hoping they do something to change how Concerted Works pop. I missed every single one on my server because they popped while I was working or sleeping. Donating 1000 items and not getting to participate in the group stuff sucks.

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Welcome to the biggest kick in the teeth of global progression content. Hated it on other games, hated the idea of it coming to FFXIV and my feelings have still not changed and it's caused me a number of misunderstood arguments on the forums (mainly my own fault, because I ramble on once I get going).

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

We may disagree that world visit in Firmament wasn't the main issue, but it was a big enough issue that SE and Yoshida himself had to address it. Them's the facts.

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He addressed something he already knew would happen.
He knew before any of us knew. So really, it's not the players fault
that we thought it was the main issue (which was part of it)
but because SE screwed up. Once the patch dropped as it was, it was
fooked before it began.

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Originally Posted by JowyAtreides

They knew this was a very real risk and still did it.

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If they, you mean SE, then yes...yes they did. So it's not really the players fault
because folks just tried to get in the danged place, it was how it was implemented.
Whole thing is just a mess no matter how you cut it.

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

Jowy, I can guarantee you that the world visit issue, while it may not be the main problem for you personally, was a massive problem here on Mateus. For all but the last round of concerted works, people on this server couldn't even get into the Firmament for hours at a time because trolls from Balmung would roll in to spam "THIS IS NOW BALMUNG FIRMAMENT". The idea of having world-visit work for the Firmament was to encourage friends and fellowships to perhaps help each other out so that servers could all progress, but this was thoroughly ruined by trolls who would either leech rewards from the server or would lock players out of their own server's instance.

We may disagree that world visit in Firmament wasn't the main issue, but it was a big enough issue that SE and Yoshida himself had to address it. Them's the facts.

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I wouldn't call it a massive problem either simply because even without world visiting, you have 9132 active players on Mateus and only 300 can participate (3.3%). So with world visiting, that number would be between 0% to 3.3% of the actual world's inhabitants. So the remaining 96.7% in that world who aren't able to participate due to the way they implemented this FATE are a significant number, which makes the implementation itself the massive problem.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

If they, you mean SE, then yes...yes they did. So it's not really the players fault
because folks just tried to get in the danged place, it was how it was implemented.
Whole thing is just a mess no matter how you cut it.

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Yes I mean SE. This is exactly what I've been saying from the start, that the implementation was the bigger problem than the world visitors (in my view).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jybril

If they, you mean SE, then yes...yes they did. So it's not really the players fault
because folks just tried to get in the danged place, it was how it was implemented.
Whole thing is just a mess no matter how you cut it.

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This sounds like someone trying to push full culpability for a mess on someone when they have partial responsibility for the mess. While the devs are partially responsible the playerbase is also responsible for a portion of this mess.

If a substantial portion of the playerbase had not been so greedy as to raid other servers for their FATEs, a fair number of servers would not have had problems getting locals into the Firmament. If wanderers had not forced worlds to advance at speeds that best suited their desire to get as many scripts by chaining FATEs some of those players who missed out on the event might have actually be able to participate.

Can SE improve things? Yes, they can potentially add more Firmament instances to high pop servers and increase the frequency of FATEs (1 Fate every 4 hours over 24 hours would vastly increase the number of players able to participate), but at the heart of things this was a high pop server problem that spilled over to the medium and lower pop servers due to player greed.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

This sounds like someone trying to push full culpability for a mess on someone when they have partial responsibility for the mess. While the devs are partially responsible the playerbase is also responsible for a portion of this mess.

If a substantial portion of the playerbase had not been so greedy as to raid other servers for their FATEs, a fair number of servers would not have had problems getting locals into the Firmament. If wanderers had not forced worlds to advance at speeds that best suited their desire to get as many scripts by chaining FATEs some of those players who missed out on the event might have actually be able to participate.

Can SE improve things? Yes, they can potentially add more Firmament instances to high pop servers and increase the frequency of FATEs (1 Fate every 4 hours over 24 hours would vastly increase the number of players able to participate), but at the heart of things this was a high pop server problem that spilled over to the medium and lower pop servers due to player greed.

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I didn't get to participate at all in the event because I had no time.
So I had 0 part of any of this and missed out. So nice assumption.

The main reason I blame SE is because of what Yoshi P said here.
"This point came up during the development of the Ishgardian Restoration, and we were aware of the risks involved in players visiting other Worlds to help."
That then should have had them open up more Firm's and do something about the FATE timer.
Even still, that leaves the progress bars. A bunch of servers are nearly done within a weeks time even post lock-down.
My server was done in 3 days and I didn't get to help.

That's my thoughts and opinion anyways. We can go back and forth on who's fault is who's
but I just hope they do better next time because a lot of people got screwed.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

This sounds like someone trying to push full culpability for a mess on someone when they have partial responsibility for the mess. While the devs are partially responsible the playerbase is also responsible for a portion of this mess.

If a substantial portion of the playerbase had not been so greedy as to raid other servers for their FATEs, a fair number of servers would not have had problems getting locals into the Firmament. If wanderers had not forced worlds to advance at speeds that best suited their desire to get as many scripts by chaining FATEs some of those players who missed out on the event might have actually be able to participate.

Can SE improve things? Yes, they can potentially add more Firmament instances to high pop servers and increase the frequency of FATEs (1 Fate every 4 hours over 24 hours would vastly increase the number of players able to participate), but at the heart of things this was a high pop server problem that spilled over to the medium and lower pop servers due to player greed.

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You mean to tell me that players in an MMO should not do a piece of content that gives them massive rewards so that others can have a shot at it? Good luck telling 5K players to do that and that's the smallest number of active players in a world, let alone the remaining 500K. Even now with world visiting restricted, a significant number can't do the FATE (simple math). The speed of which the content progressed is not correlated to the ability of a player participating in a content or not. Whether your world progressed slowly or quickly, it all depends solely on if you are available in the 10hrs span after the progress finishes. The dev team knew this was gonna happen. People AFK in Eureka and other worlds for boss FATEs for the rewards. What would prevent them from doing this in a zone that doesn't have an AFK timer and with a known time for the FATE to pop?

Edit: You also have the case with 2B's outfit and people still rolling on the coffer despite already having it. Imagine with this FATE where the reward actually worth it every time it's done. And let's not forget what happens with hunts.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

I wouldn't call it a massive problem either simply because even without world visiting, you have 9132 active players on Mateus and only 300 can participate (3.3%). So with world visiting, that number would be between 0% to 3.3% of the actual world's inhabitants. So the remaining 96.7% in that world who aren't able to participate due to the way they implemented this FATE are a significant number, which makes the implementation itself the massive problem.

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This is a bit hyperbolic. Those 9132 players on Mateus are not on and playing 24/7 and the majority of that population is unlikely to have more than a passing interest in the Firmament. If we say about 10% to 15% of active players have an interest in Ishgard Restoration we are looking at ~900 to ~1350 players on the server being interested and participating. Now not all players with interest will be on at all times, so it is likely a good idea to divide the number of interested players into Morning players, Daytime players, Primetime/Evening players and Nighttime players. Let us say 5/8 the players are on for Primetime, 3/8 for Daytime, 1/4 for Morning and 1/8 for Nighttime. During Primetime, a bit over 1/2 of the players currently on would be able to participate in the FATE on the low end and a bit over a 1/3 of the players would be able to participate on the high end. During Daytime nearly everyone to 3/5 of the interested population would be able to participate.

With world visiting it went from 900 to 1350 players per server to 8000 to 10k players in the datacenter trying to cram themselves into whichever of 8 Firmaments was about to have a FATE. During Primetime this meant that something like 20 times the instances' max population was fighting to get into each active instance.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

This is a bit hyperbolic. Those 9132 players on Mateus are not on and playing 24/7 and the majority of that population is unlikely to have more than a passing interest in the Firmament.

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This is where I'll stop you. People do care because of the rewards. You have a mount, hairstyle, glamours and an emote. Why do you think people already stressed the servers using the world visit? Because they wanted to get these rewards ASAP. Else why do you think low population servers progressed this fast with world visit? Because people wanted the FATEs to pop up. And that is evident when you see how slowly these severs are progressing now. And the fact that you can be on any DoL/Doh regardless of level to get the reward, then a significant majority will have interest in the FATE. They don't care about contributing to the progress, hence why they will AFK when the FATE timer draws near.

And if you're going to say people don't care about these rewards, allow me to remind you about every Eureka thread regarding the items that you can only get there and and asked for them to be obtainable another way (even though they can be sold at the MB but for high prices).

So I really doubt that 10-15% only are interested given the history we have regarding players' desire for such rewards. Maybe 10-15% would actually put the effort to farm the scripts for the rewards, but the majority would jump on the FATEs with its high return in a span of 3min without any effort to craft.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

You mean to tell me that players in an MMO should not do a piece of content that gives them massive rewards so that others can have a shot at it? Good luck telling 5K players to do that and that's the smallest number of active players in a world, let alone the remaining 500K. Even now with world visiting restricted, a significant number can't do the FATE (simple math). The speed of which the content progressed is not correlated to the ability of a player participating in a content or not. Whether your world progressed slowly or quickly, it all depends solely on if you are available in the 10hrs span after the progress finishes. The dev team knew this was gonna happen. People AFK in Eureka and other worlds for boss FATEs for the rewards. What would prevent them from doing this in a zone that doesn't have an AFK timer and with a known time for the FATE to pop?

---

The rewards are not really massive. 500 skyscripts and a crafter/gatherer level isn't something so massive that everyone in a datacenter must get in on it when you can compare it to what a level 70 or 80 crafter+gatherer can make in an hour. What was massive was that due to world visiting a limited number could semi-monopolize the FATEs to potentially get up to 8k skyscripts and 16 crafter/gatherer levels every time the phases advanced in the datacenter.

This was a Tragedy of the Commons caused by a greedy few who wanted the new mount and other rewards as soon as possible with the least amount of work.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

This is where I'll stop you. People do care because of the rewards. You have a mount, hairstyle, glamours and an emote. Why do you think people already stressed the servers using the world visit? Because they wanted to get these rewards ASAP. Else why do you think low population servers progressed this fast with world visit? Because people wanted the FATEs to pop up. And that is evident when you see how slowly these severs are progressing now. And the fact that you can be on any DoL/Doh regardless of level to get the reward, then a significant majority will have interest in the FATE. They don't care about contributing to the progress, hence why they will AFK when the FATE timer draws near.

---

Stop. The low pop servers are not progressing much slower than before wanderers were sealed off. Stage 3 has a much larger supply requirement than the previous 2 phases. If you compare their relative speeds servers are maintaining the same relative pace. The wanderers were more than likely taking up space more than they were actively helping. It is looking like every Server will have completed all 3 stages of phase 1 before reset on Tuesday.

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And if you're going to say people don't care about these rewards, allow me to remind you about every Eureka thread regarding the items that you can only get there and and asked for them to be obtainable another way (even though they can be sold at the MB but for high prices).

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No, I am not saying that people do not care about the rewards. There is a fair portion of players that are not rushing to get all the rewards day 1/week 1. Most of those currently with the new mount are those who abused the world visit system and locked locals out of the FATEs in their own greed.

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So I really doubt that 10-15% only are interested given the history we have regarding players' desire for such rewards. Maybe 10-15% would actually put the effort to farm the scripts for the rewards, but the majority would jump on the FATEs with its high return in a span of 3min without any effort to craft.

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You do realize that that the forums are only visited by less than 10% of the player base and that a smaller fraction of that 10% post?

Those 9.3k (active) players on Mateus contain a vast majority that do not interact with anything but the MSQ and/or daily dungeons and regularly let their subs lapse. If the amount of active players on a Mateus were spread evenly over the day and all were trying to participate very few would be able to access the Firmament as there would be over 380 players trying to cram themselves into the instance at any time. Outside the most populated servers no one currently is having trouble accessing the Firmament.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

This is where I'll stop you. People do care because of the rewards. You have a mount, hairstyle, glamours and an emote. Why do you think people already stressed the servers using the world visit? Because they wanted to get these rewards ASAP. Else why do you think low population servers progressed this fast with world visit? Because people wanted the FATEs to pop up. And that is evident when you see how slowly these severs are progressing now.

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You need to stop insisting wanderers leeching off FATEs were the ones responsible for server progress. They weren't. 99% of them weren't contributing a darn thing to the worlds they were visiting except congestion.

The lower pop servers are taking longer to progress now because EVERYONE was taking longer to progress on Stage 3. The number of contributions required to fill the bar is significantly higher than the other stages. Balmung had stages 1 and 2 knocked out in a day but took 2 days to complete stage 3. Seems like it would make sense for the low pop servers to take twice as long to complete Stage 3 as well, right? And that's exactly what's happening. With the possible exception of Spriggan, every world will have its Stage 3 completed by Tuesday, only one week after the content was released. No one is falling behind anything because there's nothing else to do.

Is there no one else alarmed that content intended to require ongoing server cooperation has been completed in such a short period of time, so short that many players never got a chance to participate and watch the progress happen? Sure, they can continue to turn in items for scrip and rewards but they missed out on seeing things change. It's hard to get excited when you feel like you're only being allowed in after the party is over.

SE should know that a large portion of the player base has little self control when new content is introduced. They're going figure out the most rewarding, less effort portion of the content and latch onto that to get what they want. They're going to consume it as fast as possible then complain there's nothing left for them to do.

That type of player should never be left dictating how long content lasts because they've now cut the rest of the player base out of that content.

It would have been better for the first stage to be the longest stage to give all players a reasonable chance to get involved and see what was going on before the visual progress started getting made, or at the very least make all stages of the project phase last the same amount of time.

As for the FATEs, the Concerted Works needs to last far longer. Make them last a week with FATEs occurring every 2-4 hours to give all players a reasonable chance to participate. Kill the XP and scrip rewards to 10% of what they currently to bring the reward to effort ratio more in line with what we get for the contributions that actually count toward progress. There doesn't need to be visual progress after every FATE. Set it up to occur every 10 completed FATEs or something similar.

Honestly, none of this was well planned out when player habits were not taken into account for the stage design.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

The rewards are not really massive. 500 skyscripts and a crafter/gatherer level isn't something so massive that everyone in a datacenter must get in on it when you can compare it to what a level 70 or 80 crafter+gatherer can make in an hour. What was massive was that due to world visiting a limited number could semi-monopolize the FATEs to potentially get up to 8k skyscripts and 16 crafter/gatherer levels every time the phases advanced in the datacenter.

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Not everyone has a level 70 or 80 crafters let alone gatherers. That’s why 500 scrips is a massive reward along with an entire level worth of EXP to those that don’t. Hence why I told you the participants’ number is a lot more than 10-15% as you stated earlier. Those that already have their jobs leveled won’t consider the rewards worth it just like you don’t consider that yourself. As I said also, those that have these jobs leveled can be around 10-15% of the population.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

This was a Tragedy of the Commons caused by a greedy few who wanted the new mount and other rewards as soon as possible with the least amount of work.

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That will always happen. It’s not surprising at all in MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Stop. The low pop servers are not progressing much slower than before wanderers were sealed off. Stage 3 has a much larger supply requirement than the previous 2 phases. If you compare their relative speeds servers are maintaining the same relative pace. The wanderers were more than likely taking up space more than they were actively helping. It is looking like every Server will have completed all 3 stages of phase 1 before reset on Tuesday.

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Well, I’m glad you mentioned relative speeds. Because I do have data to back up my claims. Siren is the last server to finish on Aether today a couple of hrs ago. So let us compare its relative speed against Cactaur which is the first to finish on Aether. (All times are in EST)

Cactuar finished P2 and started P3 at Wednesday around 12:09am and finished P3 at Friday 3:14pm. So it took roughly 63hrs for Cactuar to finish P3.

Siren finished P2 and started P3 at Wednesday around 10:23pm and finished today at 3:28am. So it took Siren roughly 89hrs to finish P3.

From that you can conclude that Cactuar’s speed is roughly 1.41 times that of Siren in completion. Now Siren started P2 at Tuesday around 10:57ish pm according to the data people shared. So it took Siren around almost 24hrs to finish P2. Now, I don’t have the data further than what I posted above for Cactuar, but based on the relative speed of 1.41, Cactuar should have finished P2 in 17hrs, meaning roughly around Tuesday at around 7am!! Which means they had an inhuman speed and completed P1 in 2hrs from release while Siren took 18hrs from release. This contradiction is because you assumed that there was no contribution from the other worlds so the relative speed is constant. Unless the relative speed was varying, which means others contributed, you will not be able to explain how Cactuar took 2hrs for P1 (9times Siren’s speed) and 17hrs for P2 while Siren took 18hrs for P1 and 24hrs for P2. So the claim that there was no contribution is a false claim until someone can provide data that says otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

No, I am not saying that people do not care about the rewards. There is a fair portion of players that are not rushing to get all the rewards day 1/week 1. Most of those currently with the new mount are those who abused the world visit system and locked locals out of the FATEs in their own greed.

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Because it was the easiest, fastest way to them. As I said above, it will always happen. Put something with reward that people want and restrict it to a certain time and watch the congestion.
Even without world visiting, people would have parked in their world to get those scrips, especially if they don’t have level 70-80 crafters + gatherers, thus preventing locals from participating nonetheless. And it would have been much worse if they realized that it was only 6 FATEs from day one. So, the blame falls on SE for creating content that is restrictive and rewarding at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You need to stop insisting wanderers leeching off FATEs were the ones responsible for server progress. They weren't. 99% of them weren't contributing a darn thing to the worlds they were visiting except congestion.

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Read the above and explain the timelines. Also, I never said there weren't wanderers leeching or that they are contributing to the progress. They were only leeching during the 1-2hrs of the FATE times. Other than that, wanderers that remained there were helping. Else you'd have the contradiction I explained above. So now those claiming that there was no contribution from wanderers in general, would have to provide their proof. Just simply saying P3 took more than P1 and P2 is not enough unless you know exactly how long is P3 compared to P1 and P2.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Well, I’m glad you mentioned relative speeds. Because I do have data to back up my claims. Siren is the last server to finish on Aether today a couple of hrs ago. So let us compare its relative speed against Cactaur which is the first to finish on Aether. (All times are in EST)

...

Cactuar finished P2 and started P3 at Wednesday around 12:09am and finished P3 at Friday 3:14pm. So it took roughly 63hrs for Cactuar to finish P3....


Read the above and explain the timelines.

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As someone with a degree in statistics, I can safely say that your inferential reasoning indicates nothing beyond "It took more time to complete a phase on world A".

Your reasoning may be correct, but you do not have actual numbers to validate your claim. You have guesswork, but no real data to explain the situation.

Relatively, a difference of 20+ hours might have a number of explanations for that difference; perhaps a difference in participation rates since it no longer mattered how long it takes to complete a phase when you have 8-12 more weeks before the next content drops.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

... you will not be able to explain how Cactuar took 2hrs for P1 (9times Siren’s speed) and 17hrs for P2 while Siren took 18hrs for P1 and 24hrs for P2. So the claim that there was no contribution is a false claim until someone can provide data that says otherwise.

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There is no data to prove that specific claim true or false, nor do I think such data will be presented to the community by SE itself.

I can provide other reasons for the situation though:

1) There are more active crafters on Cactuar than there are on Siren

2) The player-base of crafters on Siren logged in 17 hours later than those on Cactuar

3) The crafting community on Cactuar is really dedicated, and has better link-shell co-ordination than the one on Siren.

Assuming that wanderers are responsible for Cactuar's speed, why wasn't it the same for Siren? Did they start with the first letter of the alphabet and work their way to the end when choosing a world?

Not enough data, too many inferences based on nothing beyond wishful conjecture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Read the above and explain the timelines. Also, I never said there weren't wanderers leeching or that they are contributing to the progress. They were only leeching during the 1-2hrs of the FATE times. Other than that, wanderers that remained there were helping. Else you'd have the contradiction I explained above. So now those claiming that there was no contribution from wanderers in general, would have to provide their proof. Just simply saying P3 took more than P1 and P2 is not enough unless you know exactly how long is P3 compared to P1 and P2.

---

Balmung's progress tells us how long Stage 3 was in comparison to Stage 1 and Stage 2. Balmung had Stage 2 completed early Wednesday morning and was at work on Stage 3. They didn't complete Stage 3 until Friday morning. It only makes sense that worlds with smaller populations should see the same progress in proportion. Guess what? We are.

I'm not saying that no wanderers contributed at all. I'm saying the contribution was negligible compared to the contribution by home world players. No world needed help in the first place when most worlds are already done with the current stages less than a week after release.

Will cross world assistance be helpful later down the road when the content is no longer fresh and interest has died down? Possibly. But SE needs to design the content to give everyone a reasonable chance to participate in building their home world's Firmament first. Only when a world is falling drastically behind should cross world access be allowed.

And by drastically behind, I mean a world doesn't have the all the old stages from previous patches completed when a new set of stages gets added in a new patch. We're not even a week into this yet and most worlds are done with the stages currently available. That's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

As someone with a degree in statistics, I can safely say that your inferential reasoning indicates nothing beyond "It took more time to complete a phase on world A".

Your reasoning may be correct, but you do not have actual numbers to validate your claim. You have guesswork, but no real data to explain the situation.

Relatively, a difference of 20+ hours might have a number of explanations for that difference; perhaps a difference in participation rates since it no longer mattered how long it takes to complete a phase when you have 8-12 more weeks before the next content drops.

---

I do have the actual time stamps that I posted. Also, we did calculate how each world was progressing, which is why it was easy to determine that Siren would finish today since they were going at a rate of around roughly 23-25% each day. And I can show you that if you wanted. People only knew that P3 would be the last till next month after JP worlds finished, so your assumption of the participation rate going lower would have shown effect after the first day on Siren.

And also, the main point I was attacking was the assumption of constant relative speeds. If you assumed that, then you cannot explain the contraction in the timeline. Unless you vary that speed, which you'd need a significant variation, then no one can claim there was no contribution from other worlds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Balmung's progress tells us how long Stage 3 was in comparison to Stage 1 and Stage 2. Balmung had Stage 2 completed early Wednesday morning and was at work on Stage 3. They didn't complete Stage 3 until Friday morning. It only makes sense that worlds with smaller populations should see the same progress in proportion. Guess what? We are.

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Even if you assumed little contribution from wanderes on Balmung, this is still similar to Cactuar and Siren. You'd end up with a problem if you assumed constant relative speeds. Unless the worlds had to move at significantly different relative speeds at some days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

There is no data to prove that specific claim true or false, nor do I think such data will be presented to the community by SE itself.

I can provide other reasons for the situation though:

1) There are more active crafters on Cactuar than there are on Siren

2) The player-base of crafters on Siren logged in 17 hours later than those on Cactuar

3) The crafting community on Cactuar is really dedicated, and has better link-shell co-ordination than the one on Siren.

Assuming that wanderers are responsible for Cactuar's speed, why wasn't it the same for Siren? Did they start with the first letter of the alphabet and work their way to the end when choosing a world?

Not enough data, too many inferences based on nothing beyond wishful conjecture.

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1) Hence why their completion time was quicker.
2) Then they'd have completed P1 in 1hr, which is impossible.
3) They could. Their actual speed is not what I'm calculating.

Let me rephrase my wording, since you seem to have confused it. I'm not saying that wanderers are responsible for Cactuar's speed. Nor am I saying that Cactuar finished first because of wanderers. What I'm saying is that wanderers did contribute to other worlds including Cactuar. Saying that they did not contribute at all, as some have mentioned, means a constant relative speed. Since across P2 and P3, there wasn't significant change in speed across the days.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Let me rephrase my wording, since you seem to have confused it. I'm not saying that wanderers are responsible for Cactuar's speed. Nor am I saying that Cactuar finished first because of wanderers. What I'm saying is that wanderers did contribute to other worlds including Cactuar. Saying that they did not contribute at all, as some have mentioned, means a constant relative speed. Since across P2 and P3, there wasn't significant change in speed across the days.

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Let me put it plain to you.

Stop worrying about what happens on other worlds and worry about your home world instead. The low pop worlds are perfectly capable of handling their own Firmament. We don't need the outside help.

No one gets something special or different for going to a world other than their own. Nothing special or new in the way of content got added to worlds that completed Stage 3 that worlds didn't have from the start of Stage 1. All we saw were cosmetic changes to what small portion of the Firmament every world has access to.

The vast majority of worlds have already managed to or are about to complete Stage 3 less than a week after this has started. If SE decides there's an issue with the progress on some worlds compared to others later on, they can adjust things as necessary. There is no reason for players to be working on the Firmament on any world but their own unless a world is falling way behind. No one is way behind at this point.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Let me put it plain to you.

Stop worrying about what happens on other worlds and worry about your home world instead. The low pop worlds are perfectly capable of handling their own Firmament. We don't need the outside help.

No one gets something special or different for going to a world other than their own. Nothing special or new in the way of content got added to worlds that completed Stage 3 that worlds didn't have from the start of Stage 1. All we saw were cosmetic changes to what small portion of the Firmament every world has access to.

The vast majority of worlds have already managed to or are about to complete Stage 3 less than a week after this has started. If SE decides there's an issue with the progress on some worlds compared to others later on, they can adjust things as necessary. There is no reason for players to be working on the Firmament on any world but their own unless a world is falling way behind. No one is way behind at this point.

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Let me put it plainly to you then. Stop spreading misinformation without any data to prove it. This is a game at the end of the day, not a war of "your world/ my world. Don't come to my world/ stay on your world. Wanderers are taking our jobs". World visiting was added for a reason and had given lots of benefits. So there is gain from visiting another world in the game. So it's only natural that others would take interest in what happens in other worlds.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Let me put it plainly to you then. Stop spreading misinformation without any data to prove it. This is a game at the end of the day, not a war of "your world/ my world. Don't come to my world/ stay on your world. Wanderers are taking our jobs". World visiting was added for a reason and had given lots of benefits. So there is gain from visiting another world in the game. So it's only natural that others would take interest in what happens in other worlds.

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You're the one spreading misinformation. I look at the tracker and see that Siren is showing Stage 3 works in progress. That means they'll be done in a few hours despite the lack of assistance since SE pulled the plug on world visit to the Firmament. Clearly they are capable of completing it in a timely manner without cross world help. Or do you think SE intended every world to have this completed in just 3 days like Balmung did?

Your "logic" can be used to demonstrate how Cactuar is in desperate need of help because Balmung beat your world (and all other worlds) to completion by several hours. Time to ship Balmung players to all worlds to help out since they're all clearly incapable of completing things in a timely manner if they can't do it as fast as Balmung did.

No world needs cross world help at this point for the Firmament regardless of what insist your flawed data proves. You want to know how we really know this to be true? Because SE pulled the plug on world visit to the Firmament. They've got the real data we don't have. They know how much of a world's progress was due to wanderer contribution and how much was due to home world contribution.

If they felt that cross world contribution was still needed, they wouldn't have removed world visit. And guess what? They were right considering all worlds are complete or near completion now. Everyone is doing just fine without cross world assistance regardless of what you want to believe.

I'm not asking SE to remove world visit completely. You're right, there are a lot of content areas where the player base benefits from having access to world visit.

The Firmament is not one of those content areas. World visit proved to be a detriment, not a benefit, to this specific content and so it has been removed from this specific content for the time being. If things change in the future and SE has data showing it's actually needed again, I'm sure they'll re-enable it.

Until then, worry about Cactuar's poor progress this time around. Give your home world the help it needs so we don't need to ship Balmung over to help you guys get things done.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You're the one spreading misinformation. I look at the tracker and see that Siren is showing Stage 3 works in progress. That means they'll be done in a few hours despite the lack of assistance since SE pulled the plug on world visit to the Firmament. Clearly they are capable of completing it in a timely manner without cross world help. Or do you think SE intended every world to have this completed in just 3 days like Balmung did?

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If you're relying on the lodestone announcement, then 1- it does not show exactly when a phase was completed except when both FATEs are done, so you'd have to subtract 10hrs roughly. 2- it says for Siren "works in progress" meaning P3 is done and they're just waiting for the FATEs now but it won't tell you when it was done. unlike other worlds that says "works pending" that are still progressing through P3. 3- That site updates every hour.

This is Siren's progress at 2:28pm PST. Meaning they finished P3 exactly at 12:26pm PST (which is exactly 3:26EST so I'm only off by two minutes in what I posted before). So tell me again how is it that I'm spreading misinformation? You're relaying on a website that gives the least details in a span of 1hr. So the credibility of your information is now questionable.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...63/unknown.png

So now let's play a little game. At 10:26pm PST, Siren will have the second FATE pop up. So let's give it 3min for completion. So that would mean they would finish the second FATE at 10:29pm PST so at 11pm PST, the lodestone website would update showing Siren complete at 10:29pm PST. (give or take a couple of mins depending how fast they are).

Now it's funny how you shifted your entire argument to "No world needs help from other worlds". No where have I said that other worlds needed help. Your argument was that wanderer's did not contribute to any world. But you have not shown any evidence of that.

Some takes here are just silly.

I'm someone who took their crafts from being 21 at the lowest to 60-61 at the lowest with this event so far so yeah, I've been turning in a ton of stuff, right?

Did I ever "help" another server? Yeah ... that one time I had my inventory full of turn ins and couldn't get in my server's zone because GD Balm players were camping tf outta it cause we were 1-2 hours away from the fate popping (A fate I helped make happen cause I've been using this to grind levels all day). I HAD to go to another server to dump this stuff and get my levels cause of these campers.
And yes, they are campers. Standing around the board AFK not doing anything but shouting out which server is next to rush to or mocking natives of the server, disgusting. "We'Re hElPIng", yeah right, you know damn well my server doesn't need your help.

Hell, I was shopping around for mats and trying to get to small server to check their board landed me in a 5min que cause they were "next" on the fate train Balg was pushing.

After the change? I was able to come and go freely and not worry about having to camp a spot for the fate. Took part in the 2 fates and did my turn ins freely.

It wasn't a bad idea, it just assumed players are much more altruistic than they are AND that there would be far less interest in this content I guess (Cause lol, we're months away from any update and every server is basically done. Either this needed many times more turn ins or it's not really important how fast it gets done ... so allowing other worlds to help is a fix to a problem that wasn't there). I'm sure in a perfect world Balg players would help the SMALL servers with what should be an insurmountable amount of turn ins for them and once they get the fate count down going they say "Great, lets go help this other server and leave em to it!". But that aint how it played out so good on them for rethinking that.

Feel like this wouldn't have been a problem if the fate only gave like 100/ 75 scripts. Much harder to justify being afk in a zone for TWO HOURS just for 75 scripts when you can actually do something worth your time.