Viera can't use the new Modern Aesthetics - Modern Legend

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Originally Posted by Theodric

They're limited races, effectively. They simply weren't advertised in advance as such like they should have been.

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Yeah, a gimmick. Something to put on advertisements, or as a headline for the expansion. That looking back, hasn't really been that great.

Does this come from ultimate coil ?

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Originally Posted by Kiba_Whitewolf

Square can't use this as an excuse when independent modders have not only increased the resolution of the faces and hair on old races, but have also made in-game hairstyles work on viera. Hrothgar are more challenging due to the poor way they were designed though.

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And the mods glitch like crazy and don't work with everything. You think SE would tolerate that?

Yes we need more hairstyles added and I will admit it's disappointing that we didn't get anything for 5.1. Lets hope that won't be the case moving forward.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

And the mods glitch like crazy and don't work with everything. You think SE would tolerate that?

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Quite a few of their own creations clip with the character models, including some of the gear sold exclusively through the Mog Station.

Yet people kept saying that new races aren't gonna be taxing to the game and should also add the other genders even if they're incomplete. At least the current content delivery isn't affected and we're getting more stuff than we got in SB.

Yes, I get it that modders can do stuff in a day or two. But they're not working on next expansion or new content stuff alongside that. Of course I'm also not excusing the dev team for not making sure the new hair works for Viera. They should have anticipated the workload they're gonna deal with by adding them, so they should at least make sure the new stuff are working for them.

Honestly, not even surprised.. Everything that got released after ShB doesn't work for Viera/Hrothgar so I assumed this hair would be nothing different. That doesn't mean I find it acceptable though because it is not at all. I sorta understood they would need more time to adjust all the old hairstyles/hats to the new races due to the limited time they had or whatever (kinda forgot what the reason was exactly), but excluding the new races for everything you create after? That is just intentional and I wish they would tell the community the reason why they chose to go with this route. Especially because I doubt they are stupid enough to not realize this would upset a part of the community. --"

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Quite a few of their own creations clip with the character models, including some of the gear sold exclusively through the Mog Station.

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Clipping isn't what i'm talking about and please don't go there if you're trying to defend the mod community. And let me add that mods are client side and not server side. If they were the whole game would come crashing down.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Yet people kept saying that new races aren't gonna be taxing to the game and should also add the other genders even if they're incomplete. At least the current content delivery isn't affected and we're getting more stuff than we got in SB.

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We aren't getting the missing genders it's pretty obvious how difficult it's been to add these two let alone two more with tons of new content that needs to be adjusted for 5.0.

Wow, really? Even the new hairstyles developed AFTER Viera and Hrothgar were implemented don't work? That's some laziness on Squeenix's part.

Didn't they say at some point that they would develop new hairstyles for Viera and Hrothgar? That just looks less and less likely now.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

If you have to buy a fantasia to go back all you would be doing is rewarding them for not adding hairstyles. Especially if you would switch back when/if they add more.

Personally, this hair is not my hill to die on. It looks awful, in my opinion. I definitely would not use it on my viera, or any other race for that matter.

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Still have extra fantasia's from when they had that big sell on them. At least will be able to use the hairs that I paid for and earned again.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Clipping isn't what i'm talking about and please don't go there if you're trying to defend the mod community. And let me add that mods are client side and not server side. If they were the whole game would come crashing down.

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They've had a number of requests to add things - such as new facial hair options for male characters - only to claim it would be too hard despite modders managing to implement it in a way that looks good. So I'll admit to not having much patience, especially when situations such as this arise. Hrothgar and Viera players deserve better.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

They've had a number of requests to add things - such as new facial hair options for male characters - only to claim it would be too hard despite modders managing to implement it in a way that looks good. So I'll admit to not having much patience, especially when situations such as this arise. Hrothgar and Viera players deserve better.

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I'm not disputing that we need some content and quickly. I personally was disappointed we got nothing for 5.1. Hopefully they'll address the issue in an upcoming letter because the community deserves to know what is coming and when. The fact we got no new race specific hair let alone some of the other ones people would like to see.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

They've had a number of requests to add things - such as new facial hair options for male characters - only to claim it would be too hard despite modders managing to implement it in a way that looks good. So I'll admit to not having much patience, especially when situations such as this arise. Hrothgar and Viera players deserve better.

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The question is, how are the modders implementing it?

Are they replacing one of the existing options?

Are they constructing it as part of a hairstyle, and if so, what happens if you try to put the same hairstyle-with-beard on a different face shape?

The thing about mods being client-side is that they can replace elements they don't personally care about with new designs that they want. They can customise things to look great on their specific character, without worrying about what effect it has on everyone else's, or whether it works for every possible character design. The concerns and priorities are different.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Yet people kept saying that new races aren't gonna be taxing to the game and should also add the other genders even if they're incomplete. At least the current content delivery isn't affected and we're getting more stuff than we got in SB.

Yes, I get it that modders can do stuff in a day or two. But they're not working on next expansion or new content stuff alongside that. Of course I'm also not excusing the dev team for not making sure the new hair works for Viera. They should have anticipated the workload they're gonna deal with by adding them, so they should at least make sure the new stuff are working for them.

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Well, in the end it's their job to make sure they have the resources to get things done. Maybe it's just a struggle to get the human resources they need based on how they want to handle things, but it's not an insoluble problem, and money does not seem to be the problem here. I still think two half-races is just weak, but whatever... it's the prospect of no real upgrades to the existing character customisation and textures which concerns me more.

The story can only carry the game so far.

Saddly, they did mention that Viera and Hrothgar would get 'original' haircuts, so you can bet they won't get to use the old Mogstation haircuts or the ones they add later. It will be original haircuts just for them.

Its a shame really. They could have added one or two by now with the latest updates.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The question is, how are the modders implementing it?

Are they replacing one of the existing options?

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They replace existing content with their modded versions so to add a hairstyle they simply mod one of the existing styles removing that option from the game and replacing it with the new one. They aren't adding content to the game itself but are simply altering what the user sees on their own screen.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The question is, how are the modders implementing it?

Are they replacing one of the existing options?

Are they constructing it as part of a hairstyle, and if so, what happens if you try to put the same hairstyle-with-beard on a different face shape?

The thing about mods being client-side is that they can replace elements they don't personally care about with new designs that they want. They can customise things to look great on their specific character, without worrying about what effect it has on everyone else's, or whether it works for every possible character design. The concerns and priorities are different.

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I'm not sure how they're doing it, but the game is overdue a revamp and update to the character customisation system. Hopefully we get one soon, especially since it's biggest rival is pushing enhanced customisation as a major selling point for its next expansion.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Modders don't have deadlines and stockholders breathing down their neck.

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They also don't have to take in account other systems people are using to have higher polygons and textures or server stress and so on.
Heck even on the higher resolution/ polygons mods, it warns you to use at your own risk.

it's clearly a male only hairstyle so no female should ever use it.

Does anyone have a picture of it?

Every time new headpieces or hairstyles come out that don’t work with viera my heart sinks a little.

But I’m still gonna be viera, and never change, and I’m still glad they added viera and hrothgar into the game.

Idk what the solution is, and it sucks for now, and will continue to suck. I don’t like getting super mad at square about it, but I feel the pain

I'm done with being a Viera I changed back to aura which been since they came out. Never changing back to a Viera unless they quit making them a limited race with limited hair styles and head pieces. This will make me think trice before ever becoming a new race again.

Fantastic. Really great job, SE... yes that's sarcasm. How can they be this out of touch? I really wish someone would ask them a question as to why these races are SO lacking in customization and we're heading towards 5.2 already with nothing having been done.

At this point it's safe to assume Viera will only get something if Hrothgar gets something and vice versa. Expecting hairstyles to be added to one and completely ignoring the other won't work. They were added together, they will get patched together. So until Hrothgar get more face options with more hairstyles attached to them, or get redesigned to be able to separate hairstyles from face, I personally don't think Viera will be seeing or getting anything either.

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Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][SIZE="3"]Modders also do not do it full-time and do not get paid for that (which closes with the first part of the sentence). They do not drive into an office as full-time fully paid game designer. Especially deadlines should mean the actual staff get something done, innit?

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yeah. i hope that square didnt become bethesda, their game is laughable without mod.
one thing that tickle me off is this game is a money maker for them, yet they burned all our cash for other game. why yuo let this happen yoshida?? if one of the mod see this post, please tell yoshida the monetarist of Uldah want their money back.

Well I like how my main looks (who also coincidentally looks like my mom too lol), but more hair would be nice because there's only 3 I actually like out of all the default ones.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

There must be a technical reason for it. It makes no sense otherwise. It can't just be that it's hard to physically adapt the hair, can it?

They don't like to talk about their technical limitations, but I would love to hear an honest explanation of what the issue is.

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I think it actually can for Viera, it is Hrothgar that is the problem, as their hair is tied to the face. Maybe this is their reasoning.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

There must be a technical reason for it. It makes no sense otherwise. It can't just be that it's hard to physically adapt the hair, can it?

They don't like to talk about their technical limitations, but I would love to hear an honest explanation of what the issue is.

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I don’t see how it could be a technical limitation—at least with Viera—when they promised before Shadowbringers launched that they would be adding in new hairstyles and maybe porting some of the legacy hairstyles onto the race. Unless they were just saying empty words.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Does this come from ultimate coil ?

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No. Ishgard Restoration.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

There must be a technical reason for it. It makes no sense otherwise. It can't just be that it's hard to physically adapt the hair, can it?

They don't like to talk about their technical limitations, but I would love to hear an honest explanation of what the issue is.

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There's no technical limitation; modders have already ported other hairstyles to Viera. Hrothgar are another story, but that's less limitation and more new assets have to essentially be made for them. Either way, there's no excuse for a massive company like SQX—even with siphoning profits from FFXIV, their biggest money maker—to not fund a few modelers to work on converting/creating hairstyles per day.

I love Viera. If I could just have my hair back, my purchased hair, my earned hair, get that flexibility back again, I'd be fine.
Instead I'm slighted and insulted, with not even a passing word of justification.
And I could switch back to Miqote but then it's no different than rewarding them with cash for their failure.
Just give me my old hair options, please.

When Shadowbringers launched I thought hair styles would eventually be added, specially the ones unlocked with items and same for hats. However I was expecting any new hat or hairstyle to be available for Viera too.

It's really disappointing to see this, if they weren't going to have time to even make design the new items for new races then they shouldn't had done it.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I don’t see how it could be a technical limitation—at least with Viera—when they promised before Shadowbringers launched that they would be adding in new hairstyles and maybe porting some of the legacy hairstyles onto the race. Unless they were just saying empty words.

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Oh no, I bet they will, but it will either be a decent handful at once, or a few at a time. Either way, I don't think we will see either for a very long time. "Patch schedule" or some other reason for sure.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Still have extra fantasia's from when they had that big sell on them. At least will be able to use the hairs that I paid for and earned again.

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That's good then. Not handing them extra money, you already paid for the fantasias, so at least there's that.

They did not want to add Vieras in the first place but were forced to by the community and the company seeing the financial potential (remember we did not get a free Fantasi this time, when we did for Au'ra....) so they are just making sure we get the idea they were forced to do something they did not want....

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Originally Posted by Celef

They did not want to add Vieras in the first place but were forced to by the community and the company seeing the financial potential (remember we did not get a free Fantasi this time, when we did for Au'ra....) so they are just making sure we get the idea they were forced to do something they did not want....

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No one forced them to do anything. The playerbase can influence, but it doesn't have the power to make development decisions.

I understand that Viera were just a last minute addition to the game in order to appease the fanbase, and I'm really happy they did add them even in their extremely limited forms... but what annoys me is their radio silence on the issues. It's almost been 5 months since the launch of Shadowbringers and not once have they come out and apologized for the poor communication regarding the limitations of the new races. The only thing they told us pre-launch was that these races would not be able to use existing hats and be limited on existing hairstyles. They launch the new races and make us wait weeks for the naming conventions, then when they finally release them they were the most rushed lore I have ever seen in my life. It could've been scribbled on a napkin at that point. Then comes all of the patch gear, half of it works, half of it doesn't. It seems completely random what we get and what we don't. Like we're the afterthought, while Miqote get special models for their cat ears on headgear. It's sad.

I wish they would just come out every patch and say, "these new armor models and hairstyles will not be usable by hrothgar, but we want to make them available in the future" or even "these will never be made available to the new races," and just give people the closure they are asking for. I'm sick of being kept in the dark. People will still complain, but the worst part is logging into patch day to see everyone playing with their new toys and us Viera and Hrothgar players have to figure out for ourselves whether the new content is even usable by us. I mean there is a player out there who had to spend 1800 of the new scrips just to be a guinea pig for the viera community just to see if we could use the hairstyle. That's not okay. I don't even like the new hairstyle, but it's more than that. It's about respect for your loyal consumers.

And here we are again, in this same forum, and still without a clear answer. Viera was the thing who made me buy the game, is my Favorite FF race but after months, big patchs and nothing, its REALLY tiring, a race placed to fanservice without customize options?! It looks like a shot in the foot itself.

We need to think several things first, Viera body models are not accurate with their original design, it was the first budget and time cut, racial gear is imported from Fran in SB quest, two races add with less than 6-9 haircuts!? (bangs are not divine changes lol) i dont remember very well, we vieras complain but Hrothgar are far worse, i really feel sorry for them.

But where do I want to go? If you dont care about headgears, hairstyles because you found your "perfect one", cool go on, go straight, do not try do delegitimate the voice of the people who are trying to explain their discontent. Its annoying see other people who never was any of the new races say that we are complaining too much or with a full belly.

Its really a shame, new dg gear not work, pvp gear not work, new hairstyles not work. And it's been months and no updates? Not a comment? A little hope? Are they really pping on our heads? The same happens with other companies, like Riot Games, who really loves to do not hear their community, and giving to us poor buyable content.

SE is too busy wasting resources on bard perform and other junk that maybe 1% or less of the player base uses.

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Originally Posted by Celef

They did not want to add Vieras in the first place but were forced to by the community and the company seeing the financial potential (remember we did not get a free Fantasi this time, when we did for Au'ra....) so they are just making sure we get the idea they were forced to do something they did not want....

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They weren't "forced" to do anything. If they didn't want to add Viera, they shouldn't have. Frankly I'm starting to think that they shouldn't have anyway - until they were ready to actually *finish* them.

I love this race, but staring at hat after hat and hairstyle after hairstyle that I can't use - some of which took me a very long time to get - is just really disappointing. And considering there hasn't been a single mention of this that I've seen the entire time since the expansion came out? It's just getting frustrating.

These new races were poorly thought through and poorly executed. I'm not out here quitting the game over it, but heck if it doesn't leave a bad taste in my mouth.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Y8SqjWuohk8Rq/giphy.gif

Viera and Hrothgar have been the rawest example of laziness by Square Enix's part since they were revealed during the Fan Fests.

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Originally Posted by rachcouture

No one forced them to do anything. The playerbase can influence, but it doesn't have the power to make development decisions.

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I think it does, considering the amount of player ready to change race when Viera were added, the amount of player that actually changed back when the Au'ra were added and buying Fantasia in the process I would not be surprised if the bosses told them to make the race in order to make more money

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Originally Posted by Kiba_Whitewolf

Square can't use this as an excuse when independent modders have not only increased the resolution of the faces and hair on old races, but have also made in-game hairstyles work on viera. Hrothgar are more challenging due to the poor way they were designed though.

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Modders work off server with your individual workstation. Much of what is modded doesn't work with everything and trying to use that as a justification is pretty weak. i think it's disappointing to have to wait for more seriously but that doesn't somehow make the modding community the go to for what works in game.

Relative to the new hairstyle I'll admit its pretty disappointing it's not working for all races.

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Originally Posted by Slirith

SE is too busy wasting resources on bard perform and other junk that maybe 1% or less of the player base uses.

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I mean... Isn't it something like only 3% of the playerbase playing as Viera? That's not much better in terms of wasting resources on niche communities... Heck I'd argue it's worse, sure very few people bother with Performance, but it's still something literally anyone can utilize if they want to. Only way 97% of the playerbase gets anything out of them putting extra resources into giving Viera new haircuts is by dumping money on the Mogstation for a Fantasia...

Not that I disagree with the sentiment that this is laziness on SEs part, I just find it funny to call them out on wasting resources on the 1% when Viera basically are also 1%. Seems they set themselves up for failure with how unwilling they are to treat Hrothgar and Viera the same as other races; Every new hairstyle they add is going to be a repeat of this topic. New headgear? Exclusive rewards like the Cloud haircut from the recent furniture event? One wonders why they even bothered adding these new races when they just seem to constantly be setting themselves up for complaints regarding them...