Frontlines Feedback

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moonlite

First, enforce a full freelancer. Just look at https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...1&dcgroup=Gaia It is all DCs except Aether.

---

Nope: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...&dcgroup=Light

Also Freelancer would suck. You don't get your specific grand company mounts or achivements that way if you get the win for another grand company than your own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moonlite

Truthfully I don't expect anything. Unless they have a secret plan for the new mode it feels like we are back to the point before we had freelancer and exp in matches. Players complained for years and at the time all we got was its lore.

---

No thanks, I am not willing to have any non sense changes just because you want to farm your mount and achievement easier. I do not need to PvP to be large skill when 80% of people are clueless.

I am gladly to take 24 men against those who are there to PvP even I have to wait for 15 to 20 mins.

#givemeback24men

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

Nope: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...&dcgroup=Light

Also Freelancer would suck. You don't get your specific grand company mounts or achivements that way if you get the win for another grand company than your own.

---

Freelancer gives you the credit for your aligned GC no matter where you go. So if you're aligned with Adder and you get sent to Flames through Freelancer and win, it still counts it for your Adder achievements.

As with everyone else here I want 24 Man games back if not at least give us 48. These queues are atrocious and when entire discords have to work together to coordinate games for the daily run mode you know something is wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

Kills should always be important. Also for the love of pvp, we do not need shorter matches. They've shortened them enough as it is. I for one like matches that people dont just give up on because there isn't enough time or objectives to play catch up.

---

Kills should be important to complete objectives. They are clearly unbalanced when some groups in the past would just kill for last 300 points. Not specifically you and not trying to single you out. We have a disconnect between what they think the rest of the people que for and what the people who also que for feast want. If people wanted a kill fest they would just que for feast. But a percentage of people will not que for feast and do not enjoy that type of pvp. Next I would actually prefer decent long games. But clearly we have a que problem. If objectives were worth more people would be less likely to quit. Think of it like when one team gets 2 S ranks at the end of a match and goes from last to first. Or on the made people angry when a tank got LBed in feast and all the medals went to the other team and they stole a win in final seconds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

Nope: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...&dcgroup=Light

Also Freelancer would suck. You don't get your specific grand company mounts or achivements that way if you get the win for another grand company than your own.

---

Ok they have 39 out of a 100 and I was not even sure that one should be counted the win totals were so low they are embarrassing in another way. Also coloured me shocked. You know where the pvp forums were, but you had no idea how achievements work in PvP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

No thanks, I am not willing to have any non sense changes just because you want to farm your mount and achievement easier. I do not need to PvP to be large skill when 80% of people are clueless.

I am gladly to take 24 men against those who are there to PvP even I have to wait for 15 to 20 mins.

#givemeback24men

---

I am not quite sure what you are tying to say besides you would like 24 man matches back. I am actually only actively farming one achievement I would like my second Hand of mercy but it was so much easier in HWs. So for me more kill fests and ignoring the rest of the game works best for me. But I can't get that if I get one match in 2 hours.

Battle high change has felt more fun and engaging than what it was previously, a clearer indication for assists and knockouts feels good, also feels good to max out the gauge and maintain it during the match to be rewarded with extra damage and healing. I would honestly like to see this implemented in RW to replace soaring stacks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

Nope: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...&dcgroup=Light

Also Freelancer would suck. You don't get your specific grand company mounts or achivements that way if you get the win for another grand company than your own.

---

This answers why I've literally never had the problems to the extent people have complained of playing for Immortal Flames as a main GC lmao.

Like people have said before. Remove the 8-man premade restrictions. The current situation is that premades solo queue into a certain GC. Then you have alot of other people who notice this and they follow. And bam, you have alot of good players congregating to one GC. I'm always up for a challenge since I queue freelancer but matches tend to be pretty one-sided most of the time. I don't understand how SE didn't foresee this happening based on data available before freelancer was implemented. I think this worsen the queue times and discourages alot of newer players from even trying or wanting to PvP more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odessium

solo queue into a certain GC. Then you have alot of other people who notice this and they follow. And bam, you have alot of good players congregating to one GC. I

---

This has been the case with Maelstrom for ages and when and it just only now became a problem?

Trying to discuss a fix for a problem the playerbase created and is completely out of SE's control pepega

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nanne

This has been the case with Maelstrom for ages and when and it just only now became a problem?

---

I have never seen frontlines be this unbalanced as now after 5.1 changes and it's not maelstrom always either, seems like flames win most matches currently and people ignore the objective and just bully the helpless teams so bad that they rather afk and get kicked than fight against the premade alliances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nanne

This has been the case with Maelstrom for ages and when and it just only now became a problem?

---

Yeah this isn't anything new. I've played FL PvP since 2014 and this has always been a thing. What I'm trying to convey here is the current state of FL and it's mostly aimed for the Devs (not like they are going to read it anyway).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

I have never seen frontlines be this unbalanced as now after 5.1 changes and it's not maelstrom always either, seems like flames win most matches currently and people ignore the objective and just bully the helpless teams so bad that they rather afk and get kicked than fight against the premade alliances.

---

Well the people who originally had went Mael because of the "Mael always wins" mentality have changed to Flames after the premades now making Flames the new Mael. But people didnt complain this much when Mael had mostly same players every match queuing into it without Freelancer thus making Mael have significantly bigger chances of winning over the other GC. I dont think I ever got into Mael while freelancing before people decided to go to Flames instead Maelstrom

I dont like how players and se punished the premade plus us who play off peek hours for them intending to do well. Instead making it so you can que custom games and have a premade special que just for teams, they decide to cut all off peek hours matches and make it do myself and others cant que with friends or in my case the family member's I got to start playing. This should be changed..

Should we give our feedback on Onsal Hakair (Danshig Naadam) here or is a new thread for it a good idea?

Removing all previous Frontlines maps and just having the new one seems like a mistake to me. I get that the others will probably be put back in rotation at some point (unspecified dates aren't exactly welcome either, by the way, tell us how long this will be for please), and that the idea is to have us use the new map more while it's new, but... I think it would have been better to simply change the rotation system for a while so say, Onsal Hakair is every other day? For example: Onsal > Secure > Onsal > Seal Rock > Onsal > Shatter > repeat. That still makes the new map the primary map given its new, but doesn't completely remove map variety for the foreseeable future.

Given SEs history with locking out old modes/maps (looking at you, Feasting Grounds/Lichenweed/Astragalos), I'm not exactly optimistic we'll ever even see the old modes come back... That Onsal seems to be being marketed as a Seal Rock II doesn't help... Feels less like an addition and more of a replacement...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Removing all previous Frontlines maps and just having the new one seems like a mistake to me. I get that the others will probably be put back in rotation at some point (unspecified dates aren't exactly welcome either, by the way), and that the idea is to have us use the new map more while it's new, but... I think it would have been better to simply change the rotation system for a while so say, Onsal Hakair is every other day? For example: Onsal > Secure > Onsal > Seal Rock > Onsal > Shatter > repeat. That still makes the new map the primary map given its new, but doesn't completely remove map variety for the foreseeable future.

Given SEs history with locking out old modes/maps (looking at you, Feasting Grounds/Lichenweed/Astragalos), I'm not exactly optimistic we'll ever even see the old modes come back... That Onsal seems to be being marketed as a Seal Rock II doesn't help... Feels less like an addition and more of a replacement...

---

It needs to be same map over and over too many players don't understand whats going on in any map. They need to see the same map for 3 months then maybe they won't be a hot mess. Also new mount is probably not X wins but X onsal wins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moonlite

It needs to be same map over and over too many players don't understand whats going on in any map. They need to see the same map for 3 months then maybe they won't be a hot mess. Also new mount is probably not X wins but X onsal wins.

---

Frankly, people who are just there for easy EXP and tomestones are never going to understand what's going on, simply because they don't care to bother trying. Three months of Onsal back to back, or three years, they're still going to just run around like headless chickens. I'd really rather not cater to such a demographic, we've been losing enough PvP content lately as is anyway. SE should focus on the players who actually engage with the content instead, and give us more variety, not less... Most of us will "get" Onsal on day one, I mean it's Seal Rock II and we already all get that...

Given a lot of players simply stop participating in PvP once they've gotten their mount, making the mount easier to achieve isn't exactly a great move either IMO, assuming it really is Onsal specific wins. Granted, making it take two weeks to grind out instead of just one isn't exactly an ideal state of affairs either.

well if this mode will pop consistently after 3 months ,it will be square biggest achievement in years ...

personally i give it the astragalos lifespan.

bb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Frankly, people who are just there for easy EXP and tomestones are never going to understand what's going on, simply because they don't care to bother trying. Three months of Onsal back to back, or three years, they're still going to just run around like headless chickens. I'd really rather not cater to such a demographic, we've been losing enough PvP content lately as is anyway. SE should focus on the players who actually engage with the content instead, and give us more variety, not less... Most of us will "get" Onsal on day one, I mean it's Seal Rock II and we already all get that...

Given a lot of players simply stop participating in PvP once they've gotten their mount, making the mount easier to achieve isn't exactly a great move either IMO, assuming it really is Onsal specific wins. Granted, making it take two weeks to grind out instead of just one isn't exactly an ideal state of affairs either.

---

You and I disagree and that is fine. I come from not enough pvp players que. That when all these random new players only played shatter they actually played quite well after the first month. PvPer 1 day randomer 1 month.



The deal with the mount is not so much my thing. But people defend the rotating maps. Their defense was SE won't tie any more items to one map. They clearly have not pvped long enough or understand SE doesn't really care how many matches pop outside of JP. Look at the top 100 for one of EU data centers. On light 2 wins gets you into the top 100 that is 50 weeks of farming rotating map could mean never after the pops die down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moonlite

You and I disagree and that is fine. I come from not enough pvp players que. That when all these random new players only played shatter they actually played quite well after the first month. PvPer 1 day randomer 1 month.



The deal with the mount is not so much my thing. But people defend the rotating maps. Their defense was SE won't tie any more items to one map. They clearly have not pvped long enough or understand SE doesn't really care how many matches pop outside of JP. Look at the top 100 for one of EU data centers. On light 2 wins gets you into the top 100 that is 50 weeks of farming rotating map could mean never after the pops die down.

---

Someone wanna paraphrase this guy's post for me please, because I'm getting a headache trying to read it.

Personally I'm a bit upset about removing all the other maps out of the Roulette and having only the new one. Wouldn't they WANT to have it that way? Since the new mount is 100 wins on the new map, wouldn't it make sense to keep players playing longer by switching it? At least every other day.
Now the other maps essicentally have dead rewards because 24 man PvP now is dead too.

Yea faster queues for PvP, awesome! To bad this whole shtick of only having the new mode be the only mode that queues up for the frontline daily isn't helping out newer players in the pvp scene! Granted, its bad enough I waited 3 days just for seal rock to be back up cause I really want that coat! But now I cant because nobody is queuing up for the seal rock cause everyone is only getting queued up for the new mode, nor does it help that this is the new "daily"!
I don't mind the new mode, I really don't...but please just add it to the rotation, have seal rock be tomorrow, and then Fields of Glory, and then Borderlands, and then resets back to Onsal Hakair.

I'm not happy about my chances of getting seize to pop reduced to 0 since I'm only 7 wins away from the coat.
I AM happy about how the new, more aggressive seize game mode plays.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShigNanigans

Yea faster queues for PvP, awesome! To bad this whole shtick of only having the new mode be the only mode that queues up for the frontline daily isn't helping out newer players in the pvp scene! Granted, its bad enough I waited 3 days just for seal rock to be back up cause I really want that coat! But now I cant because nobody is queuing up for the seal rock cause everyone is only getting queued up for the new mode, nor does it help that this is the new "daily"!
I don't mind the new mode, I really don't...but please just add it to the rotation, have seal rock be tomorrow, and then Fields of Glory, and then Borderlands, and then resets back to Onsal Hakair.

---

This sounds logical, but then the reality becomes people will just queue on Onsal Hakair day and that's it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roda

I'm not happy about my chances of getting seize to pop reduced to 0 since I'm only 7 wins away from the coat.
I AM happy about how the new, more aggressive seize game mode plays.

---

I do like the way the new map plays, no more "hold this node, let them fight". No waiting at waymark A. The way it forces you to be aggressive is a nice change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moonlite

You and I disagree and that is fine. I come from not enough pvp players que.

---

My issue is with how SE tries to get new players into PvP. They spread their net wide and just catch more seaweed. Instead they need to focus on the aspects of PvP that work; Why do the people who currently enjoy it do so? What makes them engage with it? What aspects do they engage with the most? Focus on those sorts of things. Please those players, then more like-minded people will slowly join in.

Instead all SE has ever really done is attempt to force people to play who, in all honesty, don't want to PvP. They don't engage, sometimes they don't even participate. For the most part they just complain all match. It honestly ruins PvP IMO, to focus on such players. They're not the target demographic for PvP, and all focusing on them does is drive away the actual PvPers. I really enjoyed what I played of the new map last night, but I'm ultimately not going to play it much for a bit. The legion of people who openly admit to not wanting to be there have put me off, there's only so much of their inane complaining that I can take. So much "We've already lost" and "F*ck premades!", despite none of them ever even attempting to organize. Instead of calling points to help our chances, they complain about having to PvP for a new mount. Instead of asking the people they're currently in a match with if they want to premade to improve their chances, they just insult premades. It's frankly disgusting to watch.

It's better than Mog Tome farmers literally just sitting in the corner doing nothing, but still... I'd much rather SE start working on improving player engagement with PvP, rather than just routinely attempting to fill a rusty bucket. Just filling us up with a bunch of mount farmers for a week doesn't ultimately do any good. Build up the aspects that players engage with and more people are going to stick around to engage with them. That we're instead seeing things like premades being dismantled, and variety being striped away to please people who simply aren't engaging with the content? People who'll get their mount and stop queuing completely? That's disheartening. Why should people who actually enjoy PvP stick around, when the aspects they enjoy are being taken away?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhais

I do like the way the new map plays, no more "hold this node, let them fight". No waiting at waymark A. The way it forces you to be aggressive is a nice change.

---

I hate it to the core!!!

You could recapture point but no, now it doesn't matter

Claster F of Ants Runing Around

the PvP should be fun and no grind fest for mount/item , and then never going there, coz it's done

ask Yourself why LoL, DotA, CS has players non stop? coz it's fun, not that they farm for item and never play it again

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by testname

the PvP should be fun and no grind fest for mount/item , and then never going there, coz it's done

ask Yourself why LoL, DotA, CS has players non stop? coz it's fun, not that they farm for item and never play it again

---

I beg to differ. I find PvP to be very much enjoyable and the new map to be a superior version of Seal Rock (Seize).

PvP on Japanese servers are highly active so saying no one goes there again after they've gotten their rewards it's just plain false (same goes for alot of EU/NA players aswell).

It all comes down to whether you actually like PvP and not it being a "grind fest".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by testname

the PvP should be fun and no grind fest for mount/item , and then never going there, coz it's done

ask Yourself why LoL, DotA, CS has players non stop? coz it's fun, not that they farm for item and never play it again

---

1) Because they're free
2) You really think LoL/DOTA2 would still be popular if they didn't have ranked ladders? Nor something to actually grind for to keep it fresh? Let's remember both games have had the same game play since they started, we haven't. Also, CS was traditionally a casual game but still had an eSports background, so why suddenly a ranked ladder if playing it for fun was simply enough?
3) MMORPG PvPers are a minority in a lot of MMOs, but none more so than here. Look at how horrible this game engine is for combat, it's clearly not designed with PvP in mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odessium

I beg to differ. I find PvP to be very much enjoyable and the new map to be a superior version of Seal Rock (Seize).

PvP on Japanese servers are highly active so saying no one goes there again after they've gotten their rewards it's just plain false (same goes for alot of EU/NA players aswell).

It all comes down to whether you actually like PvP and not it being a "grind fest".

---

Yeah right popular -> when I see queue time 30 min .... and Fellowship organized last time in week to have actually enjoyable queue

I don't care for JP I live in EU here prior to patch it was 30 min

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by testname

Yeah right popular -> when I see queue time 30 min .... and Fellowship organized last time in week to have actually enjoyable queue

I don't care for JP I live in EU here prior to patch it was 30 min

---

If you want X feature from the game and mainly that, then you could just move to a different data center. You restrict yourself when you stay in the same place and want something that just isn't popular there to come to you, but it wont. It's why people move to Aether for raiding, Crystal for RP, and I have no idea why anyone would come to Primal, but people do.

Imagine wanting Chinese food, and not having access to it in abundance without going to Chinatown. Do you stay where you are and lament not having it, or do you go to Chinatown?

I really enjoy the new mode for really having no downtime and constantly moving. I'm sure the mount speed increases were designed around this mode since the map is so small they make sense.

I do find many people are still rooted in this Seize mindset and aren't understanding leaving the node once it's capped and moving to the next one though. Did many games yesterday and I almost had a win on Adders (1680) but because people didn't cap nodes and decided to fight Flames had us in a stalemate and Mael took the bottom nodes that popped for a win.

Lots of people just waste time there when they could be moving to secure another point or at least put ourselves in a better position to avoid a pinch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gula

If you want X feature from the game and mainly that, then you could just move to a different data center. You restrict yourself when you stay in the same place and want something that just isn't popular there to come to you, but it wont. It's why people move to Aether for raiding, Crystal for RP, and I have no idea why anyone would come to Primal, but people do.

Imagine wanting Chinese food, and not having access to it in abundance without going to Chinatown. Do you stay where you are and lament not having it, or do you go to Chinatown?

---

If pvp is fun, then it should be fun, for everyone

if healing is fun then why we have depression in that player base, waiting for healers

should then I move to other data center coz those centers have more healers ?

if there is no ward slot to populate for housing , instead to add more and addres housing by devs, I should move to other data center?

as much as I appreciate Your posts,
You have made yourself just silly on this one

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gula

If you want X feature from the game and mainly that, then you could just move to a different data center. You restrict yourself when you stay in the same place and want something that just isn't popular there to come to you, but it wont. It's why people move to Aether for raiding, Crystal for RP, and I have no idea why anyone would come to Primal, but people do.

Imagine wanting Chinese food, and not having access to it in abundance without going to Chinatown. Do you stay where you are and lament not having it, or do you go to Chinatown?

---

You could also say, that if I want DotA or LoL I can go there but HEY ! Devs already made that pvp game mode in Eorzea

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by testname

If pvp is fun, then it should be fun, for everyone

if healing is fun then why we have depression in that player base, waiting for healers

should then I move to other data center coz those centers have more healers ?

if there is no ward slot to populate for housing , instead to add more and addres housing by devs, I should move to other data center?

as much as I appreciate Your posts,
You have made yourself just silly on this one

---

First off, fun is subjective. I can guarantee you the fun I get out of XIV is not the same as what everyone (and that's a whole lot of everyone) else is getting. There is something for everyone, but not every single player out of the millions that subscribe are in a hivemind.

Second, I enjoy healing. Once more, I think you're using the tiny window of forum users as a means to judge the entire player base. And that's just not how it works. The players who are happy as things are? They're usually not gonna post on the forums about it to say so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noitems

I really enjoy the new mode for really having no downtime and constantly moving. I'm sure the mount speed increases were designed around this mode since the map is so small they make sense.

I do find many people are still rooted in this Seize mindset and aren't understanding leaving the node once it's capped and moving to the next one though. Did many games yesterday and I almost had a win on Adders (1680) but because people didn't cap nodes and decided to fight Flames had us in a stalemate and Mael took the bottom nodes that popped for a win.

Lots of people just waste time there when they could be moving to secure another point or at least put ourselves in a better position to avoid a pinch.

---

Mm, couldn't disagree more. Plenty of people are getting the idea of hit & run, the problem is the way the objective waiting works, someone's peeling off, usually many someones in fact to cap a node all the while teammates are getting left as easy marks of opposition, it's a far from fluid process.

Then of course when you get teams that try to do the objectives, the Battle High system shows just how broken it can be on a map this tiny with so little wins in straight up fights. People say fight aggressively, yet that runs counter to the idea of hit & run, so I'unno, it needs tuning I think.
Also fight for the Flames/Freelancer Team: you will know pain here. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Novani

Mm, couldn't disagree more. Plenty of people are getting the idea of hit & run, the problem is the way the objective waiting works, someone's peeling off, usually many someones in fact to cap a node all the while teammates are getting left as easy marks of opposition, it's a far from fluid process.

Then of course when you get teams that try to do the objectives, the Battle High system shows just how broken it can be on a map this tiny with so little wins in straight up fights. People say fight aggressively, yet that runs counter to the idea of hit & run, so I'unno, it needs tuning I think.
Also fight for the Flames/Freelancer Team: you will know pain here. :)

---

That's because the nodes pop so fast in the early phases + the small map means any GC can get to a spot without much issue. The whole alliances should be moving as a group as that pressure from that and the fact other people are thinking those same thoughts on nodes means that the chase isn't very far. Even then jobs like BLM and RDM can lock people in place allowing for a better escape of the majority in some cases.

You're going to be fighting someone either when your entire team gets to an open node or by the time the node is ready to pop. So the aggression is really just kicking people off the node asap and getting it yourself before moving to the next, pinching at points where your group is good to. I'd say hit and run plays into that since it's just getting you into the next fight, which allows this entire mode to thrive of constant pvp.

Don't worry, I already Freelance for the majority of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noitems

That's because the nodes pop so fast in the early phases + the small map means any GC can get to a spot without much issue. The whole alliances should be moving as a group as that pressure from that and the fact other people are thinking those same thoughts on nodes means that the chase isn't very far. Even then jobs like BLM and RDM can lock people in place allowing for a better escape of the majority in some cases.

You're going to be fighting someone either when your entire team gets to an open node or by the time the node is ready to pop. So the aggression is really just kicking people off the node asap and getting it yourself before moving to the next, pinching at points where your group is good to. I'd say hit and run plays into that since it's just getting you into the next fight, which allows this entire mode to thrive of constant pvp.

Don't worry, I already Freelance for the majority of them.

---

For sure, it's one hellishly frustrating map for all the effort put in so it's hard to keep it all in perspective.
It does have a lot of good high ground for ranged players, so it has that going for it; and CCs have a field day.

Either way, just general feedback in any event. I will say: enjoyed the old maps better, felt it more possible to make interesting comebacks at the very least, even if they did take awhile.

This mode is probably the worst one ever made by SE on my book; it is much worst than the Seal Rock. The map is too small, no defending mechanic, no strategy, it is just a linear mind numbing tunnel vision fighting. It is no longer why they have to deactivate other 3 modes in order to sustain this piece of crap. It will getting bored real quick when you are just mindless tunnel into focus fire a target and watch your own gauge go up quick and average 10+ kills. I am starting to semi afk and playing Fallout 76 after 5 matches. I cant believe I have to bear with this piece of garbage for another 3 months until it is dead like rival wing