Lopsided reports?

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Originally Posted by Sunoske

You didn't even read the discussion, I'm going to assume the first post as well. That question you quoted wasn't even too you, but to the woman who keeps repeating herself even though I've let them know it's just to see how many people feel they have had similar happenings. If you could please read not just jump in and play the "You did something wrong Ooooh!" Card like a child.

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What a laughable argument, no wonder you do not why you are being reported. I have been reading this discussion and all I see is you are digging your own grave

This is my biggest issue with this generation is these keyboard warriors have no back bone. Back in the old days of social gaming players would trash talk each other for days and no one went to a GM. Now these cowards will harass someone until they fight back then go crying victim to a GM. If your going to trash someone you should beam enough to take it to

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Originally Posted by Sunoske

So I got pulled into GM prison today, for the first time since the release of this game, I've usually never been one to lash out at others, so I know exactly why I was pulled in, however I get the feeling the GMs in this game are really lopsided and don't actually work with the players to find out both sides, instead just slapping people with warning when reported over something that could have easily been worked out, had both sides been seen. I even asked to actually speak with someone to point out my side and was told no, and given no actual details as to what was fully against the ToS regarding the wording I used, and how the reporting party was also harassing me.
I'm not really complaining, however I just wanted to know if anyone else feels the same with the system they have in place at the moment, if you've had someone really rude upset you then report you and get slapped with a warning without hearing your side?

I just find it odd that in a game you pay for a sub, I feel like I've seen better GM management and handling in free to play games.

(This is specifically just to get numbers for a classwork assignment, and this happening peaked my interest to use if for just that. I'm editing this in because too many people want to come in with a holier than thou attitude, when I'm simply trying to gather data, I know if I got a warning I deserved it and know exactly what I did as I stated. Feel free to keep posting and repeating the same thing if you wish, just putting this here for people who wish to comment without fully reading through.)

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This is when you turn around and slap the other person w/ harassment claim also. (It feels to me based off what Ive seen, that whoever reports someone, seems to get the GMs side and be immune from the consequences of whatever altercation took place). So if you feel you were being harassed, no matter how small, just report them move on. Let the Gm handle it and protect yourself.

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Originally Posted by Sunoske

Or perhaps you're putting words and ideals of what you would do, onto me? I've stated to simply ask if anyone had anything similar happen, if they know or feel something did, they will speak up, otherwise, what is you point?

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My point is that you can’t simply sweep the entirety of your post (including the very question in the topic itself itself) by refering to one single line at the very bottom of a several paragrafs long OP where you specifically ask of the opinions of people who specifically are in your situation. First of all, I am in no way adding my own ideals (whatever you mean in this context) upon your actions.

The topic is literally ”Lopsided reports?” and I and several people pointed out How your story does not in anyway form a conclusive point at this, no matter How many people who would chime in as GMs in those cases as well would have to keep relevant details hidden due to the rules, not because we don’t trust your story nor because we would think your story is less worth because you got a warning (everyone have a bad day, that just from the story to judge seemed to be yours and someone literally pushed you, I get that). For all you know it maybe even wasn’t the person you had a heated discussion with who reported you But someone else in the party in case you were in a dungeon, who also reported them (this is ofc not true if it was in whisper, But even then you would not know what punishment they recieved) for all you would know in this case you might actually have come off the hook easy due to the circumstances as a warning from a GM is by no means a serious punishment, it is literally them telling you that you do not do things like this and if they see it happen again they might have to take action.

But whenever anyone points out that this very thing is shaky as a ground to form a good opinion on the actual question in the title of the topic you dismiss is as off topic and people attacking you and not having anything relevant to add. However, this part is actually vital to the very question you ask in the title itself. The very fact that you claim that you do not care if they got a warning or not is irrelevant here as it is EXTREMELY relevant when talking about whenever or not the rules are lopsided ö.

It sounds more and more like that the topic you really want to discuss is if people think that GMs communicion is lacking when giving out warnings and what experience others have had with their communication, But that is not the title of this topic.

I know this might sound like a huge technicality, But when you accuse people of going off topic and not answering your questions and discussing the topic at hand when we literally discuss the topic in the title, this is a very important technicality to point out.

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Originally Posted by Sunoske

So I got pulled into GM prison today, for the first time since the release of this game, I've usually never been one to lash out at others, so I know exactly why I was pulled in, however I get the feeling the GMs in this game are really lopsided and don't actually work with the players to find out both sides, instead just slapping people with warning when reported over something that could have easily been worked out, had both sides been seen. I even asked to actually speak with someone to point out my side and was told no, and given no actual details as to what was fully against the ToS regarding the wording I used, and how the reporting party was also harassing me.
I'm not really complaining, however I just wanted to know if anyone else feels the same with the system they have in place at the moment, if you've had someone really rude upset you then report you and get slapped with a warning without hearing your side?

I just find it odd that in a game you pay for a sub, I feel like I've seen better GM management and handling in free to play games.

(This is specifically just to get numbers for a classwork assignment, and this happening peaked my interest to use if for just that. I'm editing this in because too many people want to come in with a holier than thou attitude, when I'm simply trying to gather data, I know if I got a warning I deserved it and know exactly what I did as I stated. Feel free to keep posting and repeating the same thing if you wish, just putting this here for people who wish to comment without fully reading through.)

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To respond in the bold:

In this particular scenario, I do not feel like how you were being handled was lopsided. All parties are in the know of what you did. I understand you wanted details of why you were thrown in jail and making your side known but I just don't see the point of being redundant when you and the GM both know what you did. Maybe there's a case for wanting details so you can see how you specifically broke TOS rules but personally, if I had "lashed out" to someone else, I wouldn't be interested in making this longer than usual. Even if I wanted to, I'd have to ask myself "to what end" do I want all these details from A to Z, especially since--I have to quote you here--"I know exactly why I was pulled in".

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Originally Posted by Sunoske

however I just wanted to know if anyone else feels the same with the system they have in place at the moment, if you've had someone really rude upset you then report you and get slapped with a warning without hearing your side?

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No. Because that's not how it works. You get reported for what you said/did. Mitigating circumstances aren't a thing in FFXIV's reporting system. I understand that no matter what someone does to me, if I respond in an actionable manner I may get disciplined.

This is not because I'm better than you, I just understand how it works. Now you do too and perhaps in the future it may keep you from being actioned upon. No matter how justified you feel you may be, you will still be punished if you break rules. This is not a justice system, this is a video game with company owned servers that can be managed however the company wishes.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

GM under SE policy is known for being good at their job.

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That made me laugh way more than it should. We have pretty good comedians here. Good job.

@OP

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however I get the feeling the GMs in this game are really lopsided and don't actually work with the players to find out both sides, instead just slapping people with warning when reported over something that could have easily been worked out, had both sides been seen

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They see both sides before they take actions, they don't care about your words post report, they care about the chat log evidence, nothing you say will change their evidence.

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[...] and how the reporting party was also harassing me.

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You don't know if they already know that, although there's very low chance the reporter would get in trouble. Whoever reports first tends to be immune.

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I'm not really complaining, however I just wanted to know if anyone else feels the same with the system they have in place at the moment, if you've had someone really rude upset you then report you and get slapped with a warning without hearing your side?

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If you want numbers, here's your number: every single person who was pulled into GM jail as part of a player conflict was slapped with a warning/ban without hearing their side, because that's how their policy works.

So, a few things.

1. you sound like me when I was like 10-12 years old. "But that person did something bad too." My parents never told me if my sister got punished too because that defeated the purpose.

2. You're asking if it feels lopsided but your evidence is clearly one-sided but you also ask that people answer a question that requires both sides after saying that the GMs didn't take your side into account. Think about how that sounds.

3. In my opinion this is the most important one, you've been given answers to your question but you outright say that it's not an acceptable answer or that it doesn't answer your question. And the answer to your question is:

It's not lopsided. And even if it is, we don't know because they don't disclose from one person to another who they punish or why only the people they punish. But that's not the problem here, the problem is that you did something that was against the TOS. The person reported you. The GM who took the report looked through the logs of the time that was provided to them to look through to find out when and where the TOS violation occurred, and they found you guilty enough but it wasn't serious enough for a warning. Accept that.

TL;DR Never speak to anyone unless spoken to. Answer in very concise and simplistic ways; note that "Concise" Is different from "Blunt."

I recommend only addressing anything in relation to relevance. If someone talks about X only discuss X. Not Y. Not Z. just X. If Y or Z have relevance let the other person bring it up and if they don't then leave it at that.

Referring to someone as snarky is rude? Even given the context of the comment I cannot see how that is rude. I get how someone may view it as a means of facilitating a response from the person, but rude? That is a leap imo.

My experience with this game is that GMs will just side with anyone who gets offended enough to make a report. My guess is that it's too hard to actually arbitrate and find blame or lack thereof in chat logs so company policy is just to discount anything the reporting party said or did and only look to see if you said something that they can ding you for. Either way, GMs are no different than any other over-the-phone customer service rep so I wouldn't expect much from them as arbiters of justice.

[QUOTE=Sunoske;5184051]So I got pulled into GM prison today,

Cool story bruh..

Claims like this have taught me it's probably better to just not bother talking to someone who's getting aggressive/confrontational.

People can/will fish for reasons to report people.

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Originally Posted by Sunoske

Or perhaps you're putting words and ideals of what you would do, onto me? I've stated to simply ask if anyone had anything similar happen, if they know or feel something did, they will speak up, otherwise, what is you point?

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I think what Lunavi is trying to explain is that you simply can’t gather accurate data on something like this because there’s no way for any of your participants to accurately report “Yes, I’ve dealt with a lopsided punishment before” or “No, I haven’t dealt with a lopsided punishment before”. GMs aren’t allowed to reveal whether or not other parties are punished when you submit a report, so how can one provide you “evidence” of reports that are treated unfairly or one-sidedly? There’s no accurate way to gather and quantify this data short of having access to GM records—and that’s something no player can give you. It is all mere conjecture, and conjecture isn’t fact.

I don't know if GMs do it in this game.. but in the past in FFXI, GMs would try to be mediators and actually try to settle things between 2 or more people.. sometimes whole HNMLSes. It was the really drastic things where you are sent straight to jail. While I've never personally been reported, or had to report anyone, I've talked with some concerning issues with my account and it was like I was talking to a relative x_x, kind of miss that.

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Originally Posted by Sunoske

I'm very glad you all like to point out what I already did. I asked a simple question, as I'd like to personally see if it happens often for a specific reason. If you have no answer on if it happened to you or not that's fine however I already know all that you're spouting out, I'm not upset I know I said things in chat that got me in trouble. Think of it almost like an assignment for a statistics class. I'm just interested in the information. I know I can report someone if they upset me, can we move past that to the reason I posted please.

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The answer to your question is that no one will know. It will always appear one-sided because the GMs can't discuss what may or may not have happened to the others involved. You were reported, the report was valid, you were warned. You will never know if the other side was also warned because the GMs aren't allowed to tell you

have you ever considered the possibility it's not the one you had an argument with, but it's a third party that report you? It can be that both you and the other players received an objective warning from a third view.

Usually when two people get into a fight they think it's just between the two of them, unaware that their action also affects the other players around them.

You've had your answer spelled out for you a few times, but you don't seem to like the answer and so you go on the attack.

* You did something that warranted reporting and punishment - this was doled out by the GM. You also agree it was deserved, so far we're all on the same page at this point.
* Because you already did the "bad", there is no reason for the GM to discuss they "why" of it all, aka, your side of the story. This is where your struggle seems to begin.
* GMs are not at liberty to discuss the dealings they have with other players. Perhaps they did read the full conversation log and found the other party to be complicit at well and pulled them into a gaol separately. Problem is you'll never know, neither will any one else that you're trying to solicit stories from.

From your OP, it just sounds like you want others to come forward and state that GMs wouldn't listen to their side either. If someone flies off the handle, regardless if they were provoked or not, they are the ones who lost control and broke ToS. The punishment you get if reported is warranted (again, you agreed on this). What more are you wanting people to say? Also, curious, but why should a GM have to listen to people hash out a defense when they have the proof of the ToS violation in their chat log?

"make justice" yourself is the worse thing you can do. Just report what happened and let GM check things.

In the past, myself got some bad-attitude-player that, after a feast pvp run, stalked me to express by tells how he were disappointed of my performance on the field. Did I replied back? No, sir. I blacklisted him and filed a report. That's all. Never heard of him again.

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Originally Posted by Awha

It does seem like GM's in this game do not care about the context and just if a rule was broken. As an example in WoW I was reported for sending a MT regarding a player in the party and within that comment I did mention said player should go choke on their own bile among other things. Was venting with my guild while running the content with in the party. When the GM asked to speak with me they asked for my side and confirmed it by looking at the logs and saw that I was in fact having a conversation with my guild and even told me a time where they have done something similar and just told me to be more careful next time.

Now I cannot confirm if this counted as a warning towards my account, being as when I asked they said no action would be taken since it was an honest mistake and the person in question was not intended to see my comment in the first place. So they felt that no action needed be taken. If I were to do something like that here I probably would be rightfully punished, since my comment did break the rules end of story. I guess I prefer the more human aspect of WoW GM's in the past over the iron fist approach FFXIV GM's have.

Though for all I know they lied to me and I did get a strike on my account and they simply told me otherwise to prevent needless back and forth and end up wasting time of the GM fighting for something that was out of their control.

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I too haven't had any experience with being reported in FFXIV but years ago, when I used to play Guild Wars, I had a run in with a very nasty character that said some nasty stuff to me. He/She basically continued to harass me throughout the mission we were doing and at the end, I put them on ignore and just moved on. However, someone else in the group actually felt sorry for me I think, because they reported him. The next thing I knew was a GM was contacting me and asking me if I was alright. They asked me to confirm what had happened and whether I wanted to take the report any further. Because I'd already moved on from the encounter I just said I'd put them on ignore and was fine with leaving it at that. I know not whether they were actually punished at all but it was nice of the GM to look up on me after another person had put in a report of the harassment.

I have reported people in game regarding conduct, not all that often, maybe once or twice, but as usual with any online game, you will never hear the outcome of whether the person is punished or not. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that probably most people that have been to GM jail and have had their punishment dished out to them, or whatever it is the GM's do, are going to feel like it's one-sided. I think this purely from previous posts I've ready over the years, and from what I gather is, nobody is told much about why they're getting punished because of ToS I believe.

GM's in this game sides with the one that's "more special snowflake" between you and the other.
You can do a small thing that has no repercussion on the game but if that thing offends him, you can stay sure it will count as a strike and after a certain number of strikes you'll get jailed and have a punishment on their "escalation".
He can call you retard and other stuff, but since "you" are generally more mature let it flow because that's how mature people works. Ignore and move on.
A few days ago I was running MSQ with some of my static, it was late night, I was pretty bored, the WHM was afk. He wasn't close to the party, he wasn't casting stone, he wasn't healing, he was just there. He'd move after the party cleared that area and afk at the corner. I pulled him with rescue, was a missclick aimed to someone I was in discord with, but I had that whm selected to check if he was casting or doing anything. He called me a retard twice. I rescued him again. He called me retarded again, not once asking me to stop, but just straight up insulting me. We had a bit of a laugh on vocal "Interrupting his afk uptime", we left it, ignoring him. The fact that he called me, retard was not getting reported, maybe he wouldn't even get punished at all. But it makes me think that Two previous strike (One of them justified, the other less, one I got angry after a guy was playing the "I'm the perfect player" while his dps was below tanks and healer as BLM. The "less" was some bantering, "Oh wow i'll get to find out if frenchs are as bad as internet says!" on a French PF while i was on my "chaos holiday"). In all honesty, I don't think using rescue should get bannable if the person you use it on doesn't say a thing. Maybe there should be a "disable rescue use on me" option somewhere, since it is still valuable in savage and to ress people out of AoE, I.E. ressing someone in E3S drenching pools. And I don't feel guilty for it. I mean, I didn't even kill him he was being rude and got pulled from afk. Yet he probably spammed "reports" with very "angery and offended mood", and I got punished. (Skipping the 3 day ban in the "S.E. Punishment Escalation"). There's no "missing story", that's also why people in discord were a bit.. "WTF??" Since none of us had foreseen about this. I even jokingly said "Care i'm getting ban for pulling someone afk! can't be in tomorrow raid ahah".
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...202&height=677

In short, considering that I'm jumping on and off partys in NN and PF's that needs their "Clears", willed to help and explain stuff over and over. it doesn't matter if you're a dick or a person that helps other 99% of his time, if you will say A, and someone will get offended about it, you're gonna get punished. I learned my lesson, not gonna help anyone, talk or play with anyone outside discord friends, since anything like that could create an opportunity to me actually using the chat and that's something you want to avoid. The argument that goes "Just don't be a dick", its not worth. While I'm sure that is a good suggestion, it is simply not valid. It's enough even to say anything that you can get reported, because for them is enough that YOU are feeling offended, not if you ACTUALLY offended someone. Or in my case disrupted with that two rescue use.This last episode kind off shattered any will to get involved with people in game. Even if its not a "true answer to the topic of the thread", its just a tip. Don't use chat, don't get involved with anyone, don't do anything even remotely offensive even by mistake. Don't do mistakes as well and enjoy gposing, at least on that you don't have interaction so nobody can get offended by it even by accident. Just don't Gpose in limsa close to THAT catgirl that thinks that since you're in limsa you're there to watch her! or you're gonna get reported for stalking (That's kinda ironic, but happened to me though I did not get punished, was changing my hair but was very fought about it so i went in and out the inn and the boyfriend of that catgirl came to me asking to stop stalking his girlfriend that was sitting in the tables outside the limsa inn, not before to accuse me of RMT as well).


Just my two cents. Two cent of a very disappointed guy with a vow to never interact with anyone outside very few persons or discord contacts via pm/linkshell, in game at least.
Edit: I know what's coming, someone will put the usual "there's more of the story" or other stuff, like i happened to be on the other side of this. And would say the same thing, while I'm sure there's more on some people, but here there's not. The most arguing thing I ever answer to that whm was "Don't take it hard on yourself! We like you the way you are!". So this is more like a free-tipthan something open for discussion.

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Originally Posted by LeonDalmasca

GM's in this game sides with the one that's "more special snowflake" between you and the other.

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I'm lost as to why you were banned.
Did you say anything to him at all?
I had to re-read like 3 times.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

I'm lost as to why you were banned.
Did you say anything to him at all?
I had to re-read like 3 times.

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Looks like they got a 10-day for using Rescue on someone that was AFK? That’s what I understood from just the screenshot’d chat.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

I'm lost as to why you were banned.
Did you say anything to him at all?
I had to re-read like 3 times.

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You can read it 10 time more and there still not a good reason for my ban. To be honest.
I rescued a player that was "afk" by mistake, I was rescuing my static during roulettes for fun, during MSQ I found this WHM afking on it and i was like "watch this guy" with them, and when I went to try rescue someone from the static I had the whm selected . He got mad at me for it and called me retard so I did it again because of him calling me retard out of nowhere. That's all that happened. I appealed the ban, still no answer since it's weekend. But still, this gonna seriously make me not talking to anyone or do anything outside premade content with people I know.
My english is bad and I'm sorry if its somewhat hard. I'm still somewhat triggered from that.

Edit: About what I said to him, pretty much nothing aside to not be too hard on this since it was msq and that "we'd" like him the way he was with my best of lucks on reporting someone for rescuing twice one by mistake one after calling me retarded in MSQ. Aside that, nothing.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

I'm lost as to why you were banned.
Did you say anything to him at all?
I had to re-read like 3 times.

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I could see how using rescue on a player could be seen a griefing depending on the context SE sees within their logs, and the way the person framed the report. Nevertheless. the player that reported him must have have some thin skin, or the GM was having a bad day, since I have done much worse to players and I have never even spoken to a GM before, by worse I mean if people do that prolonged AFK and I am a healer I simply do not heal them the entire run, recuse them into things so they die etc . . .

His ban is just WTF even if you take into account his past strikes mistakes happen.

The way moderators handle issues like this, are no longer the same way they handled them years ago. (over 10 years)

The method they follow now is "The person who complains gets priority".
The reason for this, stems from research facebook found out, which is that when 2 people are upset with eachother, the one who complains, even if they were fully in the wrong, is more likely to leave the service.
(In this case, leaving facebook equates leaving FFXIV)

If there's truly 2 sides of the story, my suggestion is to report them as well when the situation happens. (not after being warned)
(From there if both sides did wrong, they tend to side with those they either agree with, or the side with the less complex version of the story)

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Originally Posted by LeonDalmasca

He got mad at me for it and called me retard so I did it again because of him calling me retard out of nowhere.

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This is where it turns from an accident into griefing. Do not retaliate, simply report them for being afk in the dungeon, the language they used and then go about your business as usual.

Just wanted to add a personal experience where I reported a person who wasn't playing in PvP (ended with 0 0 0 0 stats, was there the entire time), and also was fanning flames and saying some fairly rude things. In the report I said that there was some heat thrown around too, but the purpose of the report was because they admitted in chat that they were actively leeching (no intention to play, just afk and get free exp).

When I was contacted by the GM they asked me if I had said anything to them before they investigate. I asked them if I should have and they said no they just wanted to make sure I wanted this to be investigated and if I had said something bad that I could be punished too.

So I just wanted to add that event for OP/thread, that they can punish the reporting person based on what they see in the logs. Though they're not going to tell you what they did to the person you reported (sometimes I imagine it's just a little note on the account for future GMs to reference when weighing the scales).

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

This is where it turns from an accident into griefing. Do not retaliate, simply report them for being afk in the dungeon, the language they used and then go about your business as usual.

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Even like this, using rescue without killing anyone, because target is far from the group by default. Would not still fall under the griefing. They gave this tool to healers to reposition the party they think in wrong positions. Why give them a tool if you can get banned by using it. Its like if you'd get banned to partner dance an healer/tank or dragon sight them.

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Originally Posted by LeonDalmasca

Even like this, using rescue without killing anyone, because target is far from the group by default. Would not still fall under the griefing. They gave this tool to healers to reposition the party they think in wrong positions. Why give them a tool if you can get banned by using it. Its like if you'd get banned to partner dance an healer/tank or dragon sight them.

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You just said in what I quoted before that the reason you did it was because of what they said. You did it specifically to bother them, knowing full well that it would. Again, do not retaliate, no matter how innocent you think it is and report them. The purpose of Rescue is in the name itself. It's there to remove someone from harm's way, not to make people your personal chess pieces. I'm not saying the other person didn't deserve to be reprimanded for signing up for group content and not participating, just pointing out the reason for actions taken against your account. It may not have been harmful, but the intent was to grief when you did it a second time.

So you're saying that using any skill randomly is a justified action on your account? I mean is it like that, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this right now.
But do you realize how dumb it is? It doesn't matter how badly used is a skill, unless you're ruining content, you shouldn't be banned for using any of your skill. Including rescue.

Edit: While without any doubt I won't interact with the community in game anymore as I've used to, that's just a really wrong thing and mindset to have.

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...6&id=5382&la=1

There's no mention of using rescue in a troll way. Yet it falls here after "researching it":
■Nuisance behaviour
"Nuisance behaviour" means speech or behaviour that hurts others or obstructs game play, but which is not classified as harassment. Even if it was not the intention, a penalty may be imposed if the end result was that another person was hurt or obstructed.

In short, as I said on my "tip post" you can literally get offended even by a person digiting your name wrong and still report him and be considered as a nuisance, its all on how much it offended you. That's what GM cares about. It doesn't matter the gravity of the thing. You're gonna get 2 warning 10 day 20 day and perma. For how much banter it was I still did lowkey racism, yet a warning because that was my second time getting jailed. Now using rescue once, or twice if we count the accident one. Griefing or not, that's in no way a really bannable offense. I was using a skill but since he got offended, while arguably done worse and said very bad stuff, and I did not get offended by a 12 years old in internet I'm the only one getting punished here.

Edit N2. Since I didn't felt to make another post as this is the top of the page will still get visibility. I'm going to sleep and on the next week I'm going to camp in mountain for fun and without internet, since I can do it and I'm banned (unless the appeal work, but best case scenario they'll just reduce it to the 3 day in their "punishment escalation", which gonna just mean instead of 7 days i'll come back in 3.). Have a good days and remember to not do much, since if user A will feel insulted about what you just did he has all the rights to report you, and getting you punished. As enforced into Nuisance behaviour.

Virtually anything can be considered griefing if it's annoying somebody judging from the claims I've seen people making around here.

I think the proper thing to do there would've been to just vote kick the guy if he wasn't participating.

Not saying you deserved that punishment in the slightest, but it's still ill-advised to keep doing something that provokes someone with how touchy the GMs can be coupled with them being biased towards the reporter over the reportee.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Virtually anything can be considered griefing if it's annoying somebody judging from the claims I've seen people making around here.

I think the proper thing to do there would've been to just vote kick the guy if he wasn't participating.

Not saying you deserved that punishment in the slightest, but it's still ill-advised to keep doing something that provokes someone with how touchy the GMs can be coupled with them being biased towards the reporter over the reportee.

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This. Heck, even here on the forums the GM's prioritize the reporter over the reportee. There's been at least two incidents during my time here, that I know of, where a rather vile poster was allowed to get away with utter nonsense but somehow managed to get a good chunk of the forum regulars banned for two weeks simple for disagreeing with them. Said poster however wasn't touched and their inflammatory thread was left alone until people just stopped adding fuel to the fire. Then there's a certain 'Gate' incident of which the first incident just made me lose a lot of respect for the GM's that administer the forums. (Second time it happened it was understandable as there had been a precedent set, first time there was none.)

Given how often it's happened, both in game and not, I have to wonder if it's just straight up company policy to only believe the initial reporter without going over the logs. Or if the initial reporter gets a pass so long as they are the first one seen. It honestly wouldn't surprise me. It certainly seems to be the case for the forums.

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Originally Posted by LeonDalmasca

So you're saying that using any skill randomly is a justified action on your account? I mean is it like that, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

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No, what they’re saying is using a skill in a retaliatory manner is what’s punishable. You probably weren’t punished for the first one as it was an honest mistake on your part and no words had been passed between you and the opposing player—but when you did it again after the player in question had said something about it, the GMs could interpret your second Rescue as a retaliatory action. Especially if the player had told you not to Rescue them but you did it anyway. You should have just not responded to the insult. That’s what dustytome is saying.

It still seems a bit excessive for them to jail someone for a single instance of intentional Rescue pestering.

Most MMOs I've played require someone to doggedly persistent about pestering somebody before it becomes actionable and for the offended to actually make it clear to the offender that it's bothering them. XIV on the other hand seems to love defending overly thin-skinned players who can't take so much as a single instance of perceived harassment before they report somebody.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It still seems a bit excessive for them to jail someone for a single instance of intentional Rescue "harassment".

Most MMOs I've played require someone to doggedly persistent about pestering somebody before it becomes actionable.

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I would agree with that, if the account didn't have marks against it already. He stated this wasn't his first time being reprimanded, it would be his third. If it were his first I think a warning would have been perfectly acceptable.

In that case, then yeah, that makes sense.

Though the strike system itself is flawed for the fact that you can potentially get permabanned for multiple slights over the course of several years due to them being permanent instead of temporary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It still seems a bit excessive for them to jail someone for a single instance of intentional Rescue pestering.

Most MMOs I've played require someone to doggedly persistent about pestering somebody before it becomes actionable and for the offended to actually make it clear to the offender that it's bothering them. XIV on the other hand seems to love defending overly thin-skinned players who can't take so much as a single instance of perceived harassment before they report somebody.

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I suppose it would depend. If the opposing player had expressly asked them to not do it, and then they did it anyways—and if said player happened to be killed or something in the process—I could see the GMs acting upon that. Because it is harassment, and disruption of gameplay if the player was KO’d because of a Rescue. Not saying that that’s all what necessarily happened, but just giving an example of why punishment may be given.

That said, with the report in question, I would not be surprised if the other party was given a strike as well, since they used a derogatory term in chat towards LeonDalmasca. But we won’t ever know if this is the case. Since Leon already had prior marks on his account, that could have also influenced the GM’s decision to escalate the punishment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It still seems a bit excessive for them to jail someone for a single instance of intentional Rescue pestering.

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Why shouldn’t griefing be reportable? Isn’t that one of the textbook things to report someone for?

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Originally Posted by LeonDalmasca

So you're saying that using any skill randomly is a justified action on your account? I mean is it like that, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

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Well since it was pointed out by Dusty...This was a case of "Two wrongs don't make a right".
You first pulled him accidentally, he retaliated and said stop, and you continued to poke the bear and that's what happened.
GM's saw the text of him telling you to stop and you didn't so the concluded that from there.

I hope you told the guy at first it was an accident so he knew that. That could have saved your skin, and you not
retaliating would too ultimately. You all should have kicked him and stuff right after the 1st R word tbh.
I'm not saying what he did was right, and I also hope you all reported him too but yeah...
Do try and be careful, 3 strikes already and you're probably cutting it close with a permaban here.