SE Please Sell Gil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The problem with gw2 was they also modified drop rates to encourage gem buying to get mats for things because they had such an absurdly low drop rate

---

Any idea can end up abused if done wrong...

The benefit of doing it last os seeing how competitors managed to turn success into failure and avoiding that misstep.

I agree if you implement it like WoW-tokens so they do not actually generate any gil. I would love to trade Gil for playtime/retainer slots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeonx

I would rather them do the final fantasy 8 way.

make you do tasks and get a pay check after so many tasks are done.

like example defeat said bosses.
collect items
beat dungeons

after so many you get paid.

---

ARR was kind of like that. Dungeons didn't drop gil. Gil came from weekly achievements, leves and marketboard/selling items. It was incredibly hard to gain gil and made crafters so much more desireable as the dark matter was slightly cheaper than using an NPC to repair gear. You were considered very rich if you had 200k gil (non-legacy servers).

I can't say that I'd want to return to that ... due to the stress of worrying about your gear constantly.

This is definitely a bait thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grey1234

The game already is "P2W." You can buy fully leveled characters and quest completions. It doesn't get any more P2W than that. I'm not against it really, I'd never do it, but we're already there. And IMHO, yes I'd rather see "P2W" Gil sales on the mogstation than have this game ruined by bots.

Of course, I'd rather see SE actually do something about bots and not sell Gil! But that is never going to happen, so I'm trying to mitigate here.

---

FFXIV is P2Skin not P2W. And P2Fast with the potion jump 70.
the term P2W means that pay give a real advantage with the stuff and ingame power, out of that is not the case.

And worst idea ever, give the game the opportunity to buy gils, it will kill even more ingame economy, I guess you say that too because you do not craft.
This way gives so much money if you know how to do it.

Buying gil from mog station definitely a no go. I also wouldn't support token system where players can buy tokens from Mog Station to sell to other players for gil as from what I remember, in games that do that cause an inflation in prices of various higher level or rarer items. Glamour is end game as we all say and an increase in prices for rarer glamour because of people buying tokens from Mog Station as a gil income method would not be favourable imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naoki34

FFXIV is P2Skin not P2W. And P2Fast with the potion jump 70.
the term P2W means that pay give a real advantage with the stuff and ingame power, out of that is not the case.

And worst idea ever, give the game the opportunity to buy gils, it will kill even more ingame economy, I guess you say that too because you do not craft.
This way gives so much money if you know how to do it.

---

When WoW tokens were implemented in WoW it actually helped its economy, so if you go that route I do not see any harm done as rather than devaluing Gil, there is an extra value to Gil to people who have a lot of it.

Runescape did this for both 3 and OS. It cut the bot population, but did not eliminate it (esp in OS). 3 is now a microtransactions hellhole kept alive by whales and the tattered remnants of Jagex's pride, though imo that began with Squeal Wheel and not Bonds.

Bots were also a LOT more ruinous to RS's economy and gameplay.

Given the risks and differences in circumstances, I think this would be inappropriate in FF14.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaethan_Tessula

Runescape did this for both 3 and OS. It cut the bot population, but did not eliminate it (esp in OS). 3 is now a microtransactions hellhole kept alive by whales and the tattered remnants of Jagex's pride, though imo that began with Squeal Wheel and not Bonds.

Bots were also a LOT more ruinous to RS's economy and gameplay.

Given the risks and differences in circumstances, I think this would be inappropriate in FF14.

---

Squeal wheel is indeed a larger problem than bonds as bonds does not generate anything, it just takes money from one player to another player rather than artificially increase it.

Um, just want to point out that even if SE sold gil, bots would still run rampant because rmt businesses provide other services than gil, notably power leveling and account sales, which essentially makes up the Big Three of any rmt services. Then they also provide miscellaneous things depending on what else the game can provide. In FF14's case it's actually selling crafted gear and ingame outfits for real money.


So,while I understand the desperation behind OP's suggestion, bots would still run rampant even if it were implemented.

They do. $25 for 500k on the mogstation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Machi_Machiavelli

They do. $25 for 500k on the mogstation.

---

Didnt think it would take 6 pages for someone to point that out...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunavi

When WoW tokens were implemented in WoW it actually helped its economy, so if you go that route I do not see any harm done as rather than devaluing Gil, there is an extra value to Gil to people who have a lot of it.

---

Can you provide evidence of this statement?

The first few things I find are at ends of your statement:
Concern 1
Concern 2
Concern 3

If it truly helped the economy, when I search for something along the lines of this topic, I should at least see some positive or neutral stances (knowing full well there will always be doomsayers and those expressing concerns). Also, it just sounds like WoW's economy is a bit F.U.B.A.R. as is and this just compounded it.

EDIT:
Speaking about this as someone who has never touched WoW, doesn't care for WoW, doesn't care to devote any real effort to find information regarding anything to WoW nor how hard it is to even attain gold in WoW. It doesn't change how concerning it is for a single 'token' cost as high as 590k gold in the last year of that game using this site. If it was anything like an older game I played with a similar exchange as WoW, 200k-500k is definitely much harder to obtain and promotes throwing real world cash to progress that the concerns I brought up address.

The last thing I'd ever want to see in FFXIV is food or pots going for 100k per 1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grey1234

[*]There is no client side cheat detection.

---

The only thing i did see client side cheat detection do on some others mmos plagued with bots i did play, is worsening the legit honests players experience with bugs, false positives with other harmless programs and the game becoming more resource intensive to work correctly. While the bots were still here in full force because they of course dont use a legit client to connect to the game if that means them being banned of it.

Plus most of these client side cheat detection, when coming from a third party, looked kind of fishy. With no explanations at all when you were searching on the net what is was really doing on your pc. It wouldn't even surprise me if they were some kind of spyware, especially when connecting to some random country where the bots are very well known to come from. When you think of it it can be a very good scheme : plague a game with bots, then approach this game company telling that your program will fight against them, while in fact it wont and you just want to make more money by collecting all the players private datas XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kleeya

Plus most of these client side cheat detection, when coming from a third party, looked kind of fishy. With no explanations at all when you were searching on the net what is was really doing on your pc. It wouldn't even surprise me if they were some kind of spyware, especially when connecting to some random country where the bots are very well known to come from. When you think of it it can be a very good scheme : plague a game with bots, then approach this game company telling that your program will fight against them, while in fact it wont and you just want to make more money by collecting all the players private datas XD

---

There are many "anti-cheat" protections on MMOs that have known rootkits and keyloggers in them. Anything that installs invasive things on your hardware should be avoided.

That is another point though; even with protections, hackers will eventually break it down and get functioning bots and trainers in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The problem with gw2 was they also modified drop rates to encourage gem buying to get mats for things because they had such an absurdly low drop rate

---

Is think is not about mats but rare skins and that happened due to desperation from Arenanet to increase revenue, the ones doing that are Ncsoft with Blade and Soul. Still, WoW does not have that problem and the system is similar. I don't see why FFXIV will pull a "GW2" (an in a way I will argue that the current retainer situation is even worst. In others games you pay once to increase the inventory), if at some points subscriptions go down probably they will monetize the cash shop in a more aggressive way like by creating a false scarcity of goods (buy this outfit now before is no longer available!).

Anyway, some in this topic are predicting scenarios if SE does this that are already a reality. Gil farmer and "regular" botters are already a major problem in certain servers and/or data centers.

In short:

- NA/EU economy is already inflated thx to gil from bots. There is an insane disparity of prices against the gil a person can generate "from thin air".

- "Normal" botters already control certain markets on some servers (like consumables).

As I say, I rather benefit myself by trading some of the gil that I have no use whatsoever to buy cash shop currency.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raldo

People usually complain about P2W in the context that it negatively affects other players' experience.

---

Increasing supply of gil could increase prices on the market board. That would affect my experience negatively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DenzelVilliers

There's enough P2W stuff already to this request join the catalog.

- Leveling Potions: Any P2W game sells Leveling Boost to give you advantage in comparison to Standard players, in FFXIV SQEX sells not EXP boosts, but your Job "fully" leveled already.
- Quest Potions: Like said above, in this situation you have advantage in Quest progression in comparison to a Standard players paying for that.
- Extra Retainers: Especially for Crafters, this is a Huge P2W feature, you can obtain extra/faster mats by Retainer Ventures, Extra Slots ( like any P2W game that sells Extra Slots to your account ), and way more MB power over Standard Players.
- Companion Premium: Gives to you extra Drops, acess management and more Extra Slots as well if you pay for the service in comparison to Standard users.

So i would be glad if SQEX don't start to sell Gil as well, that way i wouldn't be surprise if SQEX start to sell Mats or Equipments at Mogstation, that's the only thing left they must to do to FFXIV become a complete P2W game, because 80% of P2W stuff is already a reality. Not to mention that 9 out 10 new items released like Mount and Glamour Stuff is already Mogstation only.

The only way to stop RMT players are shutting down game servers forever.

---

Incorrect job boosts only take you to 70 and gives you 500k gil and i380/390 gear. Which is replaced quickly in shadowbringers unless your wearing i400. MSq potions only complete the MSQ nothing else: Does not unlock Bahamut, omega,alexander, etc basically anything not tied to the mainstory. You still have mountain of stuff you have to earn and unlock to even compare to someone who has been playing for years.

Can i point out that they already do?

They give 500k gil with each job boost.

I honestly think such a thing as buying gils would affect the game very negatively. Not only it would give it a P2W vibe, but I would destroy the economy and most likely create a playerbase uproar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JunseiKei

EDIT:
Speaking about this as someone who has never touched WoW, doesn't care for WoW, doesn't care to devote any real effort to find information regarding anything to WoW nor how hard it is to even attain gold in WoW. It doesn't change how concerning it is for a single 'token' cost as high as 590k gold in the last year of that game using this site. If it was anything like an older game I played with a similar exchange as WoW, 200k-500k is definitely much harder to obtain and promotes throwing real world cash to progress that the concerns I brought up address.

The last thing I'd ever want to see in FFXIV is food or pots going for 100k per 1.

---

It was fine enough in WoW. Their token prices only spiked whenever they handed out gold like candy, or a really desirable offer came up in the cash shop so everyone wanted battlenet balance. Overall it was easy enough to earn gold as long as you didn't treat it like a job to fund your sub. I made maybe 500$ or so in battlenet goods from tokens in my time in WoW.

Pots and mats never really inflated over there, especially compared to here. I could burn pots freely in casual content. Over here they're expensive enough to be Savage exclusive. Competition in WoW was rather high because gold had a real life value, so more people were selling to earn it and fueling item supply.

It's not actually hard to make gil in this game. Just so many people are lazy/want the easy way out, even if it means them risking their accounts for being dumb enough to buy RMT gil.

Adding more money will create inflation, especially if they sell gil on the mog station.

Something right now costs 2 mil on the marketboard would probably at least double (if not more) if people had the ability to purchase gil on the mogstation.

Also, before anyone goes ahead with the argument that if you buy a story skip, level boost, SE gives you money, it roughly equates to what you would probably get leveling that job, progressing through story "legitimately" (although I've done the math you actually lose out on a bit of money). That's not creating money that wouldn't exist if someone followed the steps.

If I can make a suggestion, go to a different server. I know it sucks, and for those putting their money into an investment it does definitely feel unfair. However, this game has much more to offer than whatever level you got to. You paid for the game, you shouldn't allow bots to deter you from enjoying it. I have seen a few bots here and there on my own server, I can't speak for quest mobs or what not, but I've never seen the amount of bots that people report here.

I've always played on more populated servers, so maybe that's been a nice deterrent for bots since it can be hard to make characters depending on when the window opens up for character creation.

I can't say your suggestion would help the situation. There will always be bots. The more popular the game, most likely, the more bots you're going to see. Although I disagree with SE's priority with their spending, please also keep in mind this game is running with a fraction of the devs that other MMO's are running at. Also, before someone brings in the "But <insert lower populated MMO title here> has less devs and they can deal with this," yes, but they also probably don't have as large as a problem as the more populated games, thus, less of an issue.

Again, please don't think quitting the game in this fashion is the right idea. Try different alternatives before throwing in the towel. Then, if you think you've gotten all your money's worth, do what you gotta do.

Also, I don't think as any MMO community the answer to an I quit thread is always "See ya later!" "it's just not your game" yada yada... it may be 1 poster with a hundred more silent posters behind them. The fact that someone comes on here and posts a problem that has caused them so much grief they honestly feel they should quit relating to game mechanics etc should be noted and addressed. This problem has come up numerous times and I agree SE should have an easier reporting system and GMs should deal with these accounts more swiftly instead of waiting for 1 massive ban hammer months later to make a nice headline.

[EDIT] Quick sidenote, the devs hands are also tied in many ways when it comes to certain capabilities of this game. 1.0 devs took a ton of shortcuts in programming and due to this it has caused the new devs an incredible amount of headache to resolve issues. I'm not saying easier reporting methods is one of those, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Simple fixes in the past has been addressed by Yoshi as basically impossible due to having to rewrite the base code of the game, thus breaking it.

I don't often defend SE, frankly... I feel they've been cutting corners themselves lately due to the massive popularity of the game; still, there is credit where credit is due and to not keep in mind what Yoshi is working with and make big overarching suggestions without consideration has got to be very frustrating to read from the devs' side.

I think it's such a bad idea that I'd even rather have the game completely remove the ability to transfer items and gil between characters (and completely remove any form of inter-player economy) than to see gil sold officially.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SerLuke

You are seriously willing to spend $12,000 a year on FF14 to play without bots?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grey1234

Yes. Absolutely.

---

I smell BS.

I hate bots as much as the next person but buying gil will just replace one market crashing agent with another.

Making ingame currency officially purchasable for real money would deter me from this game. I am glad that Square Enix doesn't exploit this type of cash grab.

For those who want to be able to sell mogstation items for gil, isn't this already sort of possible via gifting to friends? (not sure if it's allowable to be honest but so long as the gil is obtained legally, does it matter what we do with it?)

Otherwise I can honestly say that I don't think bots have ever directly impacted my ability to play this game to the extent that has been claimed in the original post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Can you provide evidence of this statement?

The first few things I find are at ends of your statement:
Concern 1
Concern 2
Concern 3

If it truly helped the economy, when I search for something along the lines of this topic, I should at least see some positive or neutral stances (knowing full well there will always be doomsayers and those expressing concerns). Also, it just sounds like WoW's economy is a bit F.U.B.A.R. as is and this just compounded it.

EDIT:
Speaking about this as someone who has never touched WoW, doesn't care for WoW, doesn't care to devote any real effort to find information regarding anything to WoW nor how hard it is to even attain gold in WoW. It doesn't change how concerning it is for a single 'token' cost as high as 590k gold in the last year of that game using this site. If it was anything like an older game I played with a similar exchange as WoW, 200k-500k is definitely much harder to obtain and promotes throwing real world cash to progress that the concerns I brought up address.

The last thing I'd ever want to see in FFXIV is food or pots going for 100k per 1.

---

One very concrete thing it did was to decrease ”professional” gold botting as most people rather be safe than sorry if they buy gil and botters not really caring about gametime, and to add an item into the game that can be traded on AH that has value.

The second is not a concern in ffxiv as our crafters can make and sell items of actual value, But anything that hits bots is highly welcomed here.

The problem with the WoW economy is that crafters are in a pretty miserable spot in WoW, at least from what I can tell of a friend of mine who still plays it and is a top-end crafter/gatherer.

One mmo I played they banned all Ip addresses from china and India. It took care of 99% of the bot problems they where having. After they did it was very rare to see more than one bot on at a time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grey1234

The game already is "P2W." You can buy fully leveled characters and quest completions. It doesn't get any more P2W than that. I'm not against it really, I'd never do it, but we're already there. And IMHO, yes I'd rather see "P2W" Gil sales on the mogstation than have this game ruined by bots.

Of course, I'd rather see SE actually do something about bots and not sell Gil! But that is never going to happen, so I'm trying to mitigate here.

---

There is no P2W in PVE games. What do you win by buying a Savage clear? Nothing. it doesn't help you in PVP, nor does it enable you to do anything another person couldn't do. What do you win by buying jump potion? Nothing, I leveled my MCH from 30 to 80 in 9 days. There is no "winning" in PVE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grey1234

The game already is "P2W." You can buy fully leveled characters and quest completions. It doesn't get any more P2W than that. I'm not against it really, I'd never do it, but we're already there. And IMHO, yes I'd rather see "P2W" Gil sales on the mogstation than have this game ruined by bots.

Of course, I'd rather see SE actually do something about bots and not sell Gil! But that is never going to happen, so I'm trying to mitigate here.

---

Why are people so stupid confusing pay to win with pay to progress every time they see anything that isn't aesthetic in the cash shop...

Leveled chars (limited to one btw), and boosting tHrough MSQ (content that isn't difficult by any means to clear as is) are NOT pay to win related at all. They don't give you gear to do further content, they don't teach you your job, there is no benefit other than saving your time. Time is money and vice versa, but it doesn't by power/clears or anything that would give an advantage over a player. To put it more clearly, a player who buys a level skip, and a MSQ skip.... will be in the same spot as a player who does the MSQ and levels a character. The only difference is the time spent doing so and how quickly it's done.

All that said, this thread concept is retarded lol. I don't use that term often but I literally tilted my head when I read the title and just face-palmed with how stupid the logic is. By this same logic, fire burning down a forest is too much to handle and it's not getting cleared.... Can they just burn down the whole forest so the fire can't do anymore? 4HEAD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Can you provide evidence of this statement?

The first few things I find are at ends of your statement:
Concern 1
Concern 2
Concern 3

If it truly helped the economy, when I search for something along the lines of this topic, I should at least see some positive or neutral stances (knowing full well there will always be doomsayers and those expressing concerns). Also, it just sounds like WoW's economy is a bit F.U.B.A.R. as is and this just compounded it.

EDIT:
Speaking about this as someone who has never touched WoW, doesn't care for WoW, doesn't care to devote any real effort to find information regarding anything to WoW nor how hard it is to even attain gold in WoW. It doesn't change how concerning it is for a single 'token' cost as high as 590k gold in the last year of that game using this site. If it was anything like an older game I played with a similar exchange as WoW, 200k-500k is definitely much harder to obtain and promotes throwing real world cash to progress that the concerns I brought up address.

The last thing I'd ever want to see in FFXIV is food or pots going for 100k per 1.

---

I will respond to this since I'm extremely familiar with WoW, but first let me point something out: Blizzard is not selling gold, Blizzard is selling a token that the player can trade for gold. But someone has to farm that gold in-game, this does not inflate the economy as regular gold farming bots do.

WoW massive gold inflation can be tracked to WoD and Legion. In those expansions, Blizzard added something similar to ventures with great gold rewards. By investing some time levelling different characters and setting up all the necessary requirements the amount of gold generated over time without doing anything was absurd. As an example when the token was first introduced I had enough gold to buy a year of subscription right away. However, with the last expansion, they decided to remove those ways to earn gold and, in general, the game became more stingy with gold rewards.

So, for your average joe that does not put any effort whatsoever in making gold the current economy is bad since all those massive quantities of gold are still moving around. Thing is, FFXIV is in the same boat. If you don't craft/gather the gil rewards are not enough to afford almost anything unless you spend months saving gil, and, even if you do the big gains are only during the first few days (in WoW happens the same, with BFA launch the obscene amounts of money I made by gathering plants during the first weeks was glorius). NA/EU economies are already inflated by gil farmers. If by some miracle SE finds the definitive solution to prevent bots and decided to add a new server (no transfers allowed) we will never see anything, but the rarest of drops, be sold for millions of gil.

To this inflation problem, we also have bots controlling certain markets (this probably happens in WoW too) so for a normal player is almost impossible to compete and make a profit.

Regarding with your last concern about the current WoW token prices in gold is something that has an easy explanation. After Blizzard allowed the token to be converted into the Battle.net currency you can use it to buy WoW expansion, other Blizzard titles, DLC and any other cash shop item for any Blizzard game. In short, supply and demand, players are more interested now on buying tokens than in selling.

Edit: I forgot to mention that in current WoW gold sinks hit the player harder too. While FFXIV has hardly any real gil sink, particularly if you are a casual. Gil is bound to pile over time, probably another reason for the current inflation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunavi

When WoW tokens were implemented in WoW it actually helped its economy, so if you go that route I do not see any harm done as rather than devaluing Gil, there is an extra value to Gil to people who have a lot of it.

---

I remember when they introduced such tokens to Everquest, I was playing on a classic server at that time. The effect was that inflation of gold happened so rapidly,the tokens became kind of the new alternative currency because their value in gold would increase corresponding to the gold inflation. Whenever you made enough gold to buy one, you should do it, because 2 days later it would be worth twice the amount of gold, meaning if you held on to your gold you lost 50% of your wealth over night. Most traders would only sell high level items in exchange for tokens, no one would accept gold anymore. It was a fkn disaster and it didn't stop botters either, they would farm high level items, sell them for tokens, then sell the tokens for real money.

This screams “inflation”

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grey1234

I'd pay 1000/month to play this game with fewer bots, hands down.

---

You really can't be serious here. No one here but you is willing to do that and some are barely scraping by with the $13.
This game isn't the end of the world. Throwing out 1k for this over bots is actually just...lol.
Not ALL bots, but fewer bots you said.
I'm not here to tell you how to spend your money or anything or armchair psych
but this almost seems like you have some sort of addiction with that thinking
and is probably best for you to quit anyways...
Which I think OP had since his character is completely gone.
Poor guy.

LOL what happened to OPs character?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TwiibieTwuu

Game essentially will become pay to win. People will use bots to sell cheaper Gil to under cut squares prices. People will exchange their Gil for irl money. So to get that shiney new top you better be ready to fork over a couple of ££ to a player.

---

I'm not saying I agree with OP, but Gil is so worthless that there's no way this game could ever be pay to win. Everyone earns at least make the bare minimum necessary just from playing normally, and anything beyond that is just housing/glamour fluff or small bonuses from pentamelding.

Go to the source of the problem: The people supporting these parasites. Get rid of them and the problem goes away. Any account that purchases Gil should be permanently banned. Strike absolute terror into people by forcing them to choose to either do it the legit way or potentially lose accounts that represent up to 6+ years of their lives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinfeld

Gil is so worthless that there's no way it could ever be pay to win

---

If that were true, RMT wouldn't be an issue.