Slight buffs to WAR

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I agree that Onslaught gauge cost should be reduced to 10. But remember Onslaught has a faster recast than other gapclosers, as well as a 20' range.

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Animation Its the same as gunbreaker.

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Originally Posted by Kyni

at only 10 gauge you would have to spam it on cd, because it would then be almost twice as effective as fell cleave. Don't forget it's an ogcd and fell cleave is a gcd and by being a gcd skill it has the hidden cost of whatever gcd it replaced attached to it, whichg ranges from "only" 200 potency (heavy swing) to 380 potency + 20 gauge ( storm's path).

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Very good i wish we have ogcd to spam just like other jobs do.
It will make war more dynamic, rifht now you could play it with your nose and its bad.

WAR is just soo bad after IR... its downtime really sucks away from the job. Wish they could do something to liven up that down time a bit.

Personally, after all the time I've spent learning "Use infuriate on cooldown if the gauge allows it, especially during Inner Release", it's given me a complete one-eighty, and I wouldn't mind if Infuriate was locked out during IR.

I'd personally like it if Infuriate had a trait like this: "Outside of Combat, has a 5 second cooldown and grants 100 Beast Gauge"

So we can have our capped entry gauge without creating a 2 minute pull macro. Or maybe a different ability that grants 100 BG, but cannot be used in combat.

One or the other has to be viable.

I think Onslaught is fine as-is. I'd actually argue that Onslaught is much better than Rough Divide, Plunge and Intervene. Upheaval is fine too. I'd rather see Steel Cyclone / Decimate go back to 250 / 280 potency, Nascent Flash be self-targetable, and for Mythril Tempest to apply eye for 10 seconds at level 50. Maybe a small potency buff to Mythril Tempest as well.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

WAR is just soo bad after IR... its downtime really sucks away from the job. Wish they could do something to liven up that down time a bit.

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Completely agree.

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

Personally, after all the time I've spent learning "Use infuriate on cooldown if the gauge allows it, especially during Inner Release", it's given me a complete one-eighty, and I wouldn't mind if Infuriate was locked out during IR.

I'd personally like it if Infuriate had a trait like this: "Outside of Combat, has a 5 second cooldown and grants 100 Beast Gauge"

So we can have our capped entry gauge without creating a 2 minute pull macro. Or maybe a different ability that grants 100 BG, but cannot be used in combat.

One or the other has to be viable.

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This is so fun when doing old content.

On new content you know that you should not Infuriate with IR on because then you'll be losing a ton of DPs.
On older content you want to use infuriate and unload everything during IR/Berserk to get more DPS.

Every time you enter a dungeon you have to adapt to a completely different rotation.

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Originally Posted by Poison_Rose

I think Onslaught is fine as-is. I'd actually argue that Onslaught is much better than Rough Divide, Plunge and Intervene. Upheaval is fine too. I'd rather see Steel Cyclone / Decimate go back to 250 / 280 potency, Nascent Flash be self-targetable, and for Mythril Tempest to apply eye for 10 seconds at level 50. Maybe a small potency buff to Mythril Tempest as well.



Completely agree.

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Although I'd like to see some changes to Onslaught, I agree with your points. Nascent Flash being self targettable is top on my list, followed by Mythril Tempest applying eye.

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Originally Posted by Rhyn

Currently the difference between the tanks is pretty miniscule. I'd like to see a focus on QoL changes with maybe a little dps gain.

I suggest a few additions to Onslaught. Make Onslaught usable from outside combat, for free. While in combat it still costs 20 gauge.
It now triggers an 8 second eye buff. This 8 second window has three functions:
- Fits an Overpower/Mythril Tempest rotation, which further extends the buff, making this a nice way to engage a group of enemies. This fixes the problem WAR has with having to build up the eye combo while aoeing packs.
- Fits the 3x GCDs you normally need to apply eye, meaning you get the damage buff for your initial rotation. Tiny little dps bonus.
- Doesn't allow spamming of Onslaught as a replacement for doing the eye combo. This is why it's not 10 seconds.

This really unclunks Onslaught imo. Now we just need to unclunk Nascent Flash :p

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Other thing that could be done to unclunk Onslaught is to have a fixed 20 initial gauge instead of 0, could be a trait or whatever, then you could cast Onslaught whenever you want to initiate battles (again, RAIDS ARE NOT THE WHOLE GAME!). That would be a great QoL imo. Outside of battle, if your gauge is at less than 20 for 10s it would regenerate to 20.

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Originally Posted by Nyoraii

Other thing that could be done to unclunk Onslaught is to have a fixed 20 initial gauge instead of 0, could be a trait or whatever, then you could cast Onslaught whenever you want to initiate battles (again, RAIDS ARE NOT THE WHOLE GAME!). That would be a great QoL imo. Outside of battle, if your gauge is at less than 20 for 10s it would regenerate to 20.

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This would be great, but somehow I don't see this happening. Raids aren't the whole game, but it seems like the largest factor the devs take into consideration for balance.

Who knows, my hope of war gameplay changes is diminishing. We'll see in 3 months with 5.1.

Wars are competent though. Hopefully we get some qol fixes soon.

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Originally Posted by Nyoraii

It's completely clunky and unintuitive that you HAVE to have your bar always at 20, first because it doesn't start at 20.

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It's neither clunky, no unintuitive. It does require a minuscule brain effort though.

There's 0 need to "close gap" before the combat begins (in any kind of content).

Onslaught either needs to be stronger since it has no charges and has gauge cost or it needs to be streamlined like the other tanks since they each have 2 charges on a 30 second CD at 200 potency each. The cost for Onslaught has no business only doing 100 potency while everyone else does 200-400 every 30 seconds.

And since I don't care about balance I'd love it if upheaval had no CD during IR so I can just spam Cleave and Heave and just beat the crap out of something.

Other then a boss moving to a spot, knockback and AL is on CD or during IR I never feel a need to use Onslaught otherwise so it sits there.

The only QoL I would like is make Storm's Eye combo from Heavy Swing and not Maim. That will smooth things out so much yet keep the annoying (lol) GCD character of WAR's damage buff that SE seems to want to keep.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Other then a boss moving to a spot, knockback and AL is on CD or during IR I never feel a need to use Onslaught otherwise so it sits there.

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...Which is kind of the entire point. Since it's a DPS loss to use at point blank range, Onslaught is the only gap closer that is best used to close gaps. This, combined with the 10 second cooldown, means it will almost always be available when a gap needs to be closed. In these respects, it's arguably the most well designed gap closer amongst the four tanks.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

...Which is kind of the entire point. Since it's a DPS loss to use at point blank range, Onslaught is the only gap closer that is best used to close gaps. This, combined with the 10 second cooldown, means it will almost always be available when a gap needs to be closed. In these respects, it's arguably the most well designed gap closer amongst the four tanks.

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Exactly this. The gap closers shouldn’t be doing any damage at all. It drives me nuts that I basically have to use them as another oGCD rather than for their intended purpose.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

Exactly this. The gap closers shouldn’t be doing any damage at all. It drives me nuts that I basically have to use them as another oGCD rather than for their intended purpose.

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I would argue thats bad on you rather than the skill. So far most of the Savage fights line up perfectly when you should be using your gap closers for best damage (IE fight of flight window) if you don't use them on cooldown with knowledge of the fight, and if you need to gap close for a mechanic outside of the window... that's why they have a 30 sec cooldown with 2 charges so you should have them.

From the recent live letter, looks like they will slightly buff the overall WAR potency in the future.

I don't understand why everyone has an obsession with wanting to spam their gapcloser on cd. Just adds needless busywork to the job. Onslaught already fulfills its role well, its a gapcloser, so use it to close gaps, and as a dps ogcd during inner release windows.

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Originally Posted by Jojokomoko

From the recent live letter, looks like they will slightly buff the overall WAR potency in the future.

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Could you elaborate because i saw nothing implying that at all. All i saw was:

Q7:*
There were no tank-related adjustments in Patch 5.05. Are there any plans to adjust them? I think the balance is there, but I'd like some more adjustments to warrior's damage.

A7:*
I don't believe there are any differences between the tanks that are considered "major disparities." With that being said, we are looking at the Savage feedback to see if there is anything we're overlooking, so it's not as if we think the current implementation is perfect. We'll continue making adjustments in 5.1, such as increasing the duration of defensive buffs.
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That says absolutely nothing about war. The question mentioned war, then the answer conpletely ignores job specific buffs. Its just what cooler heads realized pretty quick. Tanks are in a good spot. The only buff they mentioned was defensive CD durations. Of course the standard "everything looks fine but we are watching savage performance just in case".

How do people jump to these conculsions?

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Originally Posted by Izsha

snip

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this from the translation reddit discord:

"Q: For now there are no adjustments for WAR but will there be any in the future, we thought the balance is fine for now but we think there can be more improvements.
For now, thanks to the extreme changes to tank mechanics there aren't much issues they can see for tanks. But they are monitoring the usage of tanks and WAR to see how it performs for Savage.
They need more monitoring for now and need more data before they can discuss on what to do.
This however does not mean there will be no adjustments.
He did saw voices on how WAR should be slightly buffed a little
So he is considering maybe extend the duration at some skills.
and so on."

well see.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

That says absolutely nothing about war. The question mentioned war, then the answer conpletely ignores job specific buffs. Its just what cooler heads realized pretty quick. Tanks are in a good spot. The only buff they mentioned was defensive CD durations. Of course the standard "everything looks fine but we are watching savage performance just in case".

How do people jump to these conculsions?

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The reddit translation was a little loose "he did [see] voices on how WAR should be slightly buffed a little. So he is considering maybe extend the duration [on] some skills. And so on."

Honestly I thought they might've been referring to Eye duration but when the official translation came out they clarified defensive buffs.

Yeah that sounds pretty stock. "Tanks are doing well overall. We will continue to monitor the situation".

I am all about extending the defensive durations. Everything being 10 seconds really makes it feel bad to mitigate fluff. Between bosses casting and jink constantly you are lucky to cover 2-3 autos with any mitigation, so theres no point in using it except for tank busters and dungeons still feel weird to me with sich short durations on extended duration pulls. It wont affect the primary purpose for busters but anything to have an impact for more of a fight ill get behind.

I wanted to talk about Onslaught, but didn't want to make a whole new thread.

I think a nice QoL buff would be, like OP suggested, remove the Beast Gauge cost from Onslaught; and maybe even make it ADD Beast Gauge.

It's a fun skill to use, and I don't think those changes would break the Warrior and make it OP. It'd just be an extra OGCD that we can use offensively and which would feel good for the Warrior since it gives this feeling of momentum (adding to the Beast Gauge, not just the movement)

For once there is a WAR post i can actually somewhat agree with.

I would however change a few things - Either remove the eye bonus from the dash you propose, or make it a small refresh, say by 3 seconds or so. In that case, you end up "wasting" your dash you might otherwise use for uptime if you screw up your eye timing.

Upheavel i have no real objection to other than perhaps increasing its own cooldown a little, or making it a "GCD with a cooldown" like GNB's dot, perhaps?

Narcean flash though, i think i do have to disagree too. The idea is that you want to pick Raw intuition for self mitigation, and NF for spread mitigation across two targets and a tiny bit of healing. I dont see a reason to change it. You can already macro NF to target specific party members, having it auto-target a party member removes the option to do so, and so you will find yourself running up to the target you want to put it on, not ideal. Just macro it, trust me.

Why would you want to increase upheaval cd of all things? And ill pass on making it a skills speed reduction actuon. That will just immediately desynch it from IR so you will have to hold it anyway. Putting it on the gcd also is just a nerf to IR as it now replaces a fell cleave and slows down your gauge by another gvd in all other cases. Nothing to be gained from either of those changes to upheaval. They would just all be nerfs to the only ogcd attack of value we still have.

I just want 1 second more on Inner Release. lol

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Originally Posted by Renkei

I just want 1 second more on Inner Release. lol

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haha no more skill speed required!!!

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

WAR is just soo bad after IR... its downtime really sucks away from the job. Wish they could do something to liven up that down time a bit.

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I wish we could weave oGCD more too. Maybe Mercy Stroke could come back with a shorter CD and lessened/removed/different effects..
Heck I wouldnt mind getting Fracture back. It was only an issue using it when TP was a thing as it costed more TP than it was worth.
Maybe get Fracture and Mercy Stroke applies it to all neaby enemies with the same time that is left on the original? XD That would be cool.

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I agree with others that Nascent Flash needs to work without a target.

I also think Storm's Eye needs to be applied by Mythril Tempest.

Id like to see Onslaught have lowered recast, 2/3 charges, no damage, and no gauge cost. I would like to see the same thing on all tanks for all gap closers. I would love to have it for mobility purposes. Black mages and Dragoons love pulling before their timers runs out. Having better mobility would keep me near anything that needs enmity asap.I generally dont lose enmity for more than a second. Its extremely simply to get it back. Its just a qol thing and i believe it would make tanking a little more "fun" and a little faster paced. It would also boost the tanks dps a little bit as we sometimes have to chase bosses/adds because of mechanics and when an enemy jumps to the other side of the room we arent hitting it without 20 BG. 20 bg is almost half of a Fell Cleave. I would like to spam Fell Cleaves and not have to waste gauge. 20 gauge you are holding and not using is also half a Fell Cleave you are not using.

I fell (cleaved)in love with war and its aggressive playstyle back in 2.x when we had massive hp leech, massive payout for playing extremely aggressively and pulling as much as we could. Bloodbath plus Overpower spam, Berserk and Decimate was an incredible Thrill(of battle). Nascent Flash brings back some of that, but i still feel like 2.0 war was better.

I can solo things on paladin that I otherwise could not on WAR(pretty much every non-endgame dungeon probably...Id have to try it. I know there are some that have mechanics that would require more than one person and stuff) The lack of Nascent Flash when your party leaves you is awful. 20% mitigation IS NOT equal to Nascent Flash used with a Storm's Eye buffed, Inner Chaos x2 plus Fell Cleave. Its like 50% hp back.. (or more..) Especially in aoes.

Sorry for the wall.

**TL;DR**
Id like to see:
Nascent Flash, no target requirement.
Onslaught no Beast Gauge cost, 2 or 3 charges for mobility.
Storm's Eye applied by Mythril Tempest.
Increase wars potential when out of Inner Release/Burst window. Maybe with some oGCDs or old skills like Fracture/Mercy Stroke.

EDIT: please make Nascent Flash usable in Lvl 30+ instances... 76+ is just flat out stupid. Id even say swap it with Thrill of Battle if you have to. JEEEZ. Its so Infuriate(:P)ing. (Ill see myself out now.)

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

haha no more skill speed required!!!

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It was never "required" as you get what you need from stats on gear and never melded anyway.