Disappointed coming from WoW pvp

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

PvP was quite strictly balanced had its greatest streamlining in Legion, yet that was also the period in which WoW PvP was most criticized by its fan base.

There is absolutely nothing revolutionary about just mildly altering effects and potencies between PvP and PvE rather than taking a cleaver to the PvE toolkit and leaving only the most resistant or eye-catching parts on the table for PvP. It's the way MMOs have done handled PvP to far greater percentage participation for damn near forever.

Within reason, having asymmetry in the different capacities across different jobs/classes/specs is not a failure of balance; if anything, it keeps PvP more likely and attractive, if we're to judge by player surveys, participation percentage, and hours played in PvP.
Nor does having a larger toolkit, nor one that increases in depth with level count just as PvE kits do, turn most players off to PvP; quite the opposite.

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It honestly felt like more people did Frontlines with the old system lol.

I wonder why they had to tryhard so much to show off the new shadowbringers skills in PvP, all the classes lost a few abilities and skills now, just so they can be added.
I think tanks only lost tankstance because they needed slots for the new "cool kids" 5.0 skills. And that's why they had to patch out medal vulnerability now too (who would have thought that happens if you remove tankstance). Or how they added the pve change to samurai (instant 2nd midare) blindly in pvp too, without nerfing it another way.
It feels like they have a design how they want it to look like but balancing it or making it enjoyable in an pvp arena format just needs more testing before release...Even if they want to keep it generally as it is.

The only reason to suffer through this garbage PvP is to acquire that Judge Armor, they save all the cool armors for PvP instead of Mogstation or seals because if they didn't it would be dead, nobody would PvP if you have half a brain to see how bad this garbage is.

Nothing is enjoyable about FF14s PvP, not the grind, not the mounts, not the feast rankings, not anything.

Still, I do it, because glamour is the true endgame of this game, and I like to horde everything.

Still, I hate this shit with a passion.

Man do I hate it so much, puts me on suicide watch.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

I wonder why they had to tryhard so much to show off the new shadowbringers skills in PvP, all the classes lost a few abilities and skills now, just so they can be added.
I think tanks only lost tankstance because they needed slots for the new "cool kids" 5.0 skills. And that's why they had to patch out medal vulnerability now too (who would have thought that happens if you remove tankstance). Or how they added the pve change to samurai (instant 2nd midare) blindly in pvp too, without nerfing it another way.
It feels like they have a design how they want it to look like but balancing it or making it enjoyable in an pvp arena format just needs more testing before release...Even if they want to keep it generally as it is.

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The medal change hurts healers way too much, and considering tuning is largely aimed towards getting new people into Feast and keeping them, that's a bad way to do it.

I was around when you could use your pve ability.
While some were fun, it made your hotbars a cluster f**k.
It was actually very annoying also with so many people attacking you, it was actually hard to focus because you had so many buttons.
I think people forgot that nightmare.
Some jobs were broke as well in pvp and some were the trash, like blm sucked but sch and astro could not be killed.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

It honestly felt like more people did Frontlines with the old system lol.

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That's what I'd noticed too, but even more distinctly in Feast. Not that I play much on this alt since I, too, stopped liking PvP much after the consolidation and loss of chat, though the latter more on principle.

That's not to say that I wouldn't have been happy with consolidation of the PvP skills back then (that is to say, the bloat specifically added to our bars just because they apparently couldn't manage significant events outside of double-(Death)Flares without them).
I'd have rather turned them into traits and, say, unique consolidated abilities (Dragon Kick becomes the Somersault ability after use until your next weaponskill, with that ability then being unavailable for 30 seconds after use). But /shrug.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

The medal change hurts healers way too much, and considering tuning is largely aimed towards getting new people into Feast and keeping them, that's a bad way to do it.

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TBH, I feel like devs just hate healers in PvP in general at this point.
As a healer in PvP, I feel like with each expansion they try to make healing less fun.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Some jobs were broke as well in pvp and some were the trash, like blm sucked

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lol, not at all.

you didnt and still dont see many blm around ,but that doenst mean it was bad ,there were just easier ranged jobs to play.

bb

Personally, I feel like PVP suffers in FFXIV from not being more exposed... and what I mean by that is that the Wolves Den is sequestered off in it's own area and hardly feels like it's part of Eorzea at all. I feel like PVP would benefit from active arenas (somewhere near the main square...) in major towns where people could challenge others in the city, hold tournaments (with an audience of onlookers), or just goof off and take on people who look strong to test their abilities.

It always bothered me that I couldn't walk up to someone who looked strong and throw down the gauntlet.

To SE's credit, at least they keep trying to make it work. At least they try to keep it fresh by implementing new skills and modes and changing things. Im looking forward to 5.1 and the new Frontline (supposedly Seal Rock 2?) which is great because Seal Rock is the best mode.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

To SE's credit, at least they keep trying to make it work. At least they try to keep it fresh by implementing new skills and modes and changing things. Im looking forward to 5.1 and the new Frontline (supposedly Seal Rock 2?) which is great because Seal Rock is the best mode.

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Except they don't. You can't have a player vs player game mode and not frequently update it. In SB we got what, rival wings, two ranked maps and about 4 balance updates that shook things up slightly. This isn't enough in two years to have a pvp mode be playable, at the very least it needs to be shaken up every two months, not six.

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Originally Posted by legione

lol, not at all.

you didnt and still dont see many blm around ,but that doenst mean it was bad ,there were just easier ranged jobs to play.

bb

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Have to ditto this. BLM has never been bad from memory (at least as far back as S3, I never touched a single game of feast before then and I never experienced The Fold). Has practically always been S-Tier on JP Ladders, just not popular in the West. Unpopular doesn't always mean bad. There were just far easier options as range that could fit into far more comps and when you're playing a solo queue ladder, you take the easier option every time because you have to account for the possibility the other three players are total memes.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

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It's true that PvP is too hidden in this game, and that PvP suffers because of it. Especially frontline and RW, them being casual modes. People just don't care, and when peeps don't care they don't try, and when thy don't try the modes sucks automatically.

As Shinklet mentioned, SE haven't really done much. They could have done a lot more to improve PvP. PvP was implemented late, thus got the short end of the stick as developlment went on.

Imo all mmos with a battle system should focus a lot on PvP. That's the true endgame, and what makes people stick around for actual gameplay, and not just to increase the numbers on their stats.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

Personally, I feel like PVP suffers in FFXIV from not being more exposed... and what I mean by that is that the Wolves Den is sequestered off in it's own area and hardly feels like it's part of Eorzea at all. I feel like PVP would benefit from active arenas (somewhere near the main square...) in major towns where people could challenge others in the city, hold tournaments (with an audience of onlookers), or just goof off and take on people who look strong to test their abilities.

It always bothered me that I couldn't walk up to someone who looked strong and throw down the gauntlet.

To SE's credit, at least they keep trying to make it work. At least they try to keep it fresh by implementing new skills and modes and changing things. Im looking forward to 5.1 and the new Frontline (supposedly Seal Rock 2?) which is great because Seal Rock is the best mode.

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Totally agree, each town should a have a little dueling square to just pass the time, mess around while you wait for queues, or just open up dueling everywhere, it would be so nice to be able to duel and mess around in Quarrymill while waiting for PotD queues and such. I think this would do wonders to expose pvp to the broader audience, I imagine it would be very entertaining in town with spectators etc..

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Originally Posted by x037x

Totally agree, each town should a have a little dueling square to just pass the time, mess around while you wait for queues, or just open up dueling everywhere, it would be so nice to be able to duel and mess around in Quarrymill while waiting for PotD queues and such. I think this would do wonders to expose pvp to the broader audience, I imagine it would be very entertaining in town with spectators etc..

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It should be available anywhere out on the field and swap your hotbar once you accept the duel. I guess they're just too concerned about toxicity that doesn't even occur in the Pier.

All this being said, we all know SE is THE worst company ever, right? Pls ban me!!

PvP is not the end game for any mmorpg, it is merely one of the theme park player can go to. That statement only apply to FPS and even so they are trying to have PvE as true end game, for example Destiny and Division.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

PvP is not the end game for any mmorpg, it is merely one of the theme park player can go to. That statement only apply to FPS and even so they are trying to have PvE as true end game, for example Destiny and Division.

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What are you talking about?

PvP is a major backbone which keeps people playing because each battle should always be fun and always be different. PvE is always the same. Titan/Ifrit/whoever is always the same.

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

What are you talking about?

PvP is a major backbone which keeps people playing because each battle should always be fun and always be different. PvE is always the same. Titan/Ifrit/whoever is always the same.

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Exactly what I said, PvP is just a side dish and PvE progression will always be the main course as end game contend of a mmorpg.

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

What are you talking about?

PvP is a major backbone which keeps people playing because each battle should always be fun and always be different. PvE is always the same. Titan/Ifrit/whoever is always the same.

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I will disagree. It is well proven that most MMO players do not enjoy PvP. PvP is often - by the way, on the way - byproduct of MMOs.
PvP focus MMO tend NOT to thrive for too long. Take a look at Shadowbane, Dark Age of Camelot, Warhammer Online