So are we going to have to wait until after Savage releases to expect changes?

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Given that you're ignoring the entire healer toolkit and focusing entirely on their dps skills, it seems like you never wanted to play a healer anyway, and only put up with SCH because it was practically a dps job with a pet to heal for you.
Now that SCH is in line with the other healers it sucks?
You never liked healing.

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I love healing!

But when there's not healing to be done, I want the buttons I press between heals to mean something. To feel powerful. And fun.

You know, like what tanks are doing between tankbusters. Enjoying their burst phases and fell cleaves and what not.

The game's encounter design never demands so much healing. I understand why, and that's fine, but there are two opposing design "goals" the team has with healing. One, this lofty ideal that we should be healing mostly. But two, we can't have stringent healing requirements on encounters, or the newer players will be locked out of story content (we need raw power to heal through DF mistakes, or content won't be accessible). So we will always end up with busy/aggressive healers contributing via damage output because they understand the damage patterns, and know how little healing will be required when all goes well.

So if if they can't give me a boss that demands any sort of real uptime on direct heals, I want something fun to do in those 30 second stretches between damage spikes.

I love healing, but I also love being useful all the time. Tanks don't have empty filler between tankbusters and aoe blasts. They have a solid rotation to occupy them and work into the encounter. DPS have solid rotations and splicing that rotation into a given encounter determines their damage output. I'm not asking for DRG level rotation for my SCH. It would be too much. But "I have nothing to do for 70% of the fight but keep up one dot and spam one nuke" is a valid complaint.

And since I can't see the encounters changing, what healers should have is something engaging to do during that 70% "down" time.

I have nothing to do for 70% of a smooth run but keep up one dot and spam one nuke.

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Originally Posted by tesni_g

I love healing!

But when there's not healing to be done, I want the buttons I press between heals to mean something. To feel powerful. And fun.

You know, like what tanks are doing between tankbusters. Enjoying their burst phases and fell cleaves and what not.

The game's encounter design never demands so much healing. I understand why, and that's fine, but there are two opposing design "goals" the team has with healing. One, this lofty ideal that we should be healing mostly. But two, we can't have stringent healing requirements on encounters, or the newer players will be locked out of story content (we need raw power to heal through DF mistakes, or content won't be accessible). So we will always end up with busy/aggressive healers contributing via damage output because they understand the damage patterns, and know how little healing will be required when all goes well.

So if if they can't give me a boss that demands any sort of real uptime on direct heals, I want something fun to do in those 30 second stretches between damage spikes.

I love healing, but I also love being useful all the time. Tanks don't have empty filler between tankbusters and aoe blasts. They have a solid rotation to occupy them and work into the encounter. DPS have solid rotations and splicing that rotation into a given encounter determines their damage output. I'm not asking for DRG level rotation for my SCH. It would be too much. But "I have nothing to do for 70% of the fight but keep up one dot and spam one nuke" is a valid complaint.

And since I can't see the encounters changing, what healers should have is something engaging to do during that 70% "down" time.

I have nothing to do for 70% of a smooth run but keep up one dot and spam one nuke.

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Except the design has changed. Not on the encounter side, but on the healer side.

All the healers have been 'complaining' about healing being more difficult, less so for WHM but it's still there, which means you're healing more to make up for it.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

You've just described AST.

Healing output (across the board, but specifically for AST) is harsher, meaning more heals are required.
In addition it's entire Card system is it's own DPS rotation, but applied via padding other DPS players damage.

I've done runs, specifically places like Qitarna Revel, where I'm healing upwards of 70% of the time. Some trash pulls have me healing so much, that Lightspeed is used for healing instead of Gravity spam. Proper use of Earthly Star and Horoscope is required.
It's made healing far more interesting in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

You've just described AST.

Healing output (across the board, but specifically for AST) is harsher, meaning more heals are required.
In addition it's entire Card system is it's own DPS rotation, but applied via padding other DPS players damage.

I've done runs, specifically places like Qitarna Revel, where I'm healing upwards of 70% of the time. Some trash pulls have me healing so much, that Lightspeed is used for healing instead of Gravity spam. Proper use of Earthly Star and Horoscope is required.
It's made healing far more interesting in my opinion.

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Three things to say here....

1. For someone who wants to actually heal, having only 1 out of the 3 healers being a viable choice for them is still unacceptable.
2. Have you played AST in either EX trial? You can usually get away with using 3 or less gcd heals for the entire fight for both titania and then 2nd one (don't want to spoil the name, just in case). These fights are so much of a joke that sometimes horoscope is just used for the tiny base heal without using a helios to proc it.
3. If you say you spent 70% of the time healing in that level 75 dungeon, I'm very inclined that either you, the tank, or both were doing something pretty wrong. I supposing dps being very low could also be a cause for this too.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Except the design has changed. Not on the encounter side, but on the healer side.

All the healers have been 'complaining' about healing being more difficult, less so for WHM but it's still there, which means you're healing more to make up for it.

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Your experience with AST mirrors mine, I had to heal a bunch and it felt incomplete, trash pulls are okay because of lightspeed as you say, but bosses I always felt like there was just one tool or something I was missing, like if I just had something more it wouldn't be so stressful, and I can't even see CU/CO hots ticking on myself because they're just pathetic. As AST I healed that 70% as you said, but my cards suffered a lot for it because it it's feast or famine with AST healing. By 80, it's a touch better, if only because the other players are geared and they know encounters, so AST healing feels kind of okay IF a group is good.

WHM and SCH are not having these experiences, save for DF horrors, so what you're describing is less "the healing paradigm has changed" but "AST is suffering while the other two aren't."

I'm glad you see AST healing as a challenge, but I saw myself as a burden. Why choose AST that offers low damage, mangled cards, and can't brute force heal through mistakes, when WHM and SCH can do decent/great damage, press 1 button to get their utility, and heal through massive levels of stupid?

It is possible we'll see some WHM and SCH nerfs in the near future but I highly doubt that they will be gutted to the level of AST potencies. Instead, it's likely that AST will get some buffs to bring it up closer to the other two, and then, with gear and experience, AST will be right back to 70% downtime with the others.

Healer design hasn't fundamentally changed. Just AST potencies.

The damage taken has fundamentally changed, and tanks consistently take more damage, and I do enjoy that change. I like needing to keep a close eye on tanks. That feels like a healer job and it's good. But everything else is exactly as it was.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

You've just described AST.

Healing output (across the board, but specifically for AST) is harsher, meaning more heals are required.
In addition it's entire Card system is it's own DPS rotation, but applied via padding other DPS players damage.

I've done runs, specifically places like Qitarna Revel, where I'm healing upwards of 70% of the time. Some trash pulls have me healing so much, that Lightspeed is used for healing instead of Gravity spam. Proper use of Earthly Star and Horoscope is required.
It's made healing far more interesting in my opinion.

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While healing output isn’t scaling as much as it should—if at all, really—AST is the only one who has to do more healing than the other two healers. They do more work for the same amount of healing compared to a WHM or SCH.

I do more Holy on WHM than I do Solace/Cure II in dungeons. I’m not really healing any more on a level 71~80 WHM than I did on a level 61~70 WHM, and I still utilize the kit I had back then (Regen, Asylum, Assize, Divine Benison, Holy, Thin Air, Tetra). It’s not interesting so much as you have two healers that are getting along just fine and one that limps to the finish line.

AST feels better on single target, but in dungeon packs it’s a bit unacceptable how much it lags behind the other two.

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Originally Posted by AikenDrum

I think healers are horrible so i switched. Now i'm sitting in a queue waiting for someone who enjoys 1 button gameplay. Trying to solve that by switching back to a healer will get me stuck in a loop.

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Even better when these one-two button loving spammers can’t handle a mob pull or two without letting the tanks who’re using their CD’s as necessary hit the floor. The amount of times I’ve seen this happen over the past week while leveling my DPS classes in the leveling dungeons is sad.

I even watched a tank go down while sitting with only one mob in front of a gate because the healer seemed convinced that spamming medica 2 was somehow going to prevent the tank from dying. This was in a post lv 70 dungeon mind you, and then they had the gall to get snippy when I and the other DPS in the party who both had all the healers geared and leveled to 70 long before 5.0 hit attempted to politely advise them on how to optimally use WHM’s heals.

A good amount of these folks(a substantial portion of them seemingly being jump potion users) flocking to healers claiming they enjoy how the classes function now in comparison to how they did in HW & SB really like being the new “in need” crowd, but reality-wise very few of them are actually capable fulfilling said need for the groups they’re joining. Let alone be able to take helpful/constructive criticism and improve from it.

Scholar was the only healing job that even had multiple damage attacks and only due to having Arcanist as their base class. Astrologian and White Mage have had a two button single target rotation forever. White Mages had one up on Astrologians in that they had Aero III but it still ended being one attack spam.

I've heard a mirid of complaints that Summoners/Scholar could never be balanced as long as they shared a common class. Seems like this was their answer as Scholar retains almost nothing from Arcanist now.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...604&height=443

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

While healing output isn’t scaling as much as it should—if at all, really—AST is the only one who has to do more healing than the other two healers. They do more work for the same amount of healing compared to a WHM or SCH.

I do more Holy on WHM than I do Solace/Cure II in dungeons. I’m not really healing any more on a level 71~80 WHM than I did on a level 61~70 WHM, and I still utilize the kit I had back then (Regen, Asylum, Assize, Divine Benison, Holy, Thin Air, Tetra). It’s not interesting so much as you have two healers that are getting along just fine and one that limps to the finish line.

AST feels better on single target, but in dungeon packs it’s a bit unacceptable how much it lags behind the other two.

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I wouldn't even mind if they nerfed WHM and SCH healing to heal more like AST. I just want those moments when you're able to do damage to be more engaging. And we really need a damage skill to dump Aetherflow on. None of this "give us MP only" or "dump it into fairy gauge" idiocy either. I don't know what the obsession with Fairy Gauge is. It's trash. It doesn't work with Seraph, it limits your skill usage, the actual healing it puts out is mediocre too. Fey Blessing is just garbage. I don't even want this skill. Just remove it. Don't bother.

Damage is fine for Aetherflow stacks. We don't have any MP problems in non-dungeon situations and we already have too much fairy gauge (anything more than 0).

*Main DRK here*
*Looks over healers complaints*

Oh, they think it will come before 6.0... *Laughts in Stormblood DRK*

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

*Main DRK here*
*Looks over healers complaints*

Oh, they think it will come before 6.0... *Laughts in Stormblood DRK*

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Remember when Scholar's only AoE attack in Stormblood was Bane and when their MP costs were so high you were almost happy you had no AoE? Also when Excog had a 60 second CD, didn't pop on expiration and was barely stronger than Lustrate? Remember when Quickened Aetherflow used to be a RANDOM chance to lower Aetherflow CD on Aetherflow-based skill usage instead of a flat 5 seconds per use?

That was all resolved in one patch. There's some hope.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

*Main DRK here*
*Looks over healers complaints*

Oh, they think it will come before 6.0... *Laughts in Stormblood DRK*

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As a DRK/SCH main....damn man you nailed that one on the head.

I'm surprised that the very obvious changes to healing calculations appear absent from this conversation. They reiterated numerous times prior to release that potencies and tooltips didn't mean anything because of this. Like many people, I assumed the changes were mostly going to damage formulae. Now I suspect that they left that intentionally vague because they didn't want to stir a rebellion by announcing a blanket nerf to healing.

Yet that's exactly what we got. From level 70 (ilvl 400) to level 80 (ilvl 430) my HP increased by about 50%, while the raw healing numbers on my spells increased by about 5%. This is not just "substat crunch". They changed the scaling on our spells.

It's become difficult to argue about what future encounters will and will not demand of our toolkits based on past encounters, because we're in uncharted territory. Healing values have always scaled almost 1:1 with hitpoint values. That's no longer the case.

We can draw comparisons on the relative strength of the Jobs - AST is definitely looking weak - but saying "healing that demanding doesn't exist!" may no longer be a true statement. The meta has fundamentally shifted in ways we cannot yet fully asses based on past or present data or experience. This does not negate the gameplay complaints that Scholars have, of course (they happen to have as many GCD heal spells as they do GCD damage spells - 3). I just think it's a bit premature to be making generalizations about what the healing role will and will not demand in upcoming content.

To all of those who say that healing requirements have changed significantly, I find that argument quite silly. Some of them are probably just mixed up since they don't remember undergeared leveling dungeons. Those are harder and require more healing. But even in a situation that should theoretically require a TON of healing (Expert Roulette Undergeared Wall to Wall Pulling) I can still afford to easily spend a ton of time on DPS. Between Recitation, Excogitation. Seraph, Fey Union, Whispering Dawn and other skills I can easily DPS for much of a pull.

Healers are SUPER STRONG AT HEALING right now. Even EX Trials are starting to move to a Solo Heal meta.

The issue isn't that we're weak. It's that our classes are boring.

To be fair, the one blessing we do have for SCH is that some of the problems are realistically fixable in a patch. SCH would be in a much better place (at least personally) if they:

1. Allowed Aetherflow out of combat. I get that they want to help those poor DPS and tanks who don't want to risk waiting, but the bigger ones who wanted the wait were SMN anyway, and they're mostly fine with the change.

2. Gave us a way to deal damage with Aetherflow Stacks. As it stands, there is basically no reason to engage with one of our core mechanics (aetherflow) outside of group content. This makes solo duties and overworld content exceptionally boring, especially when they seemed to make an effort to give DPS and Tank classes ways to engage with their core mechanic in most scenarios. It would also help with us having too much Aetherflow stacks to go around, and create additional tactical considerations as the player has to gauge whether or not they can afford to burn stacks on damage.

3. A few buffs and nerfs to try and fix abilities. Fey Blessing should probably be way stronger for example, and there are still weird dumb interactions like Fey Illumination not aiding our most important healing abilities and dissipation having the same problem.

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Originally Posted by Lagomorph

Historically there has always been a massive balance patch when either normal mode or savage gets released so in 5 days or a little under 3 weeks. I'm optimistic about it, things have been like this before. In heavensward class previews, there was outrage from brd/mch mains who saw the changes to their class. Nothing was changed when early access hit, but when SE realized that everyone was right, they got some big changes 2 weeks after release. The same thing happened with stormblood sch and war except they were fixed 4 weeks in on savage release. While the developers have made pretty questionable design choices many times, they've usually been pretty good about listening to player feedback. Thank heavens this isn't blizzard we're dealing with.

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Hw ast had to wait until 2 weeks after savage for healing potencies to be buffed to acceptable levels, their healing, their primary role was unacceptable for content for 6 weeks(it was certainly doable but you were having to work a lot harder for it at the detriment to your party because sch/whm were just that much better, kinda like now :P), so this would probably be the earliest we see any sort of buffs in my eyes.

hopefully they surprise me but doubt it.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Major playstyle changes will likely come with the next expansion. Minor changes can come anytime.

At best we can hope for a new skill with an already existing animation or something.

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2.0 war, and 4.0 war would like a word, it is completely within the devs control to do an overhaul they just have to want to, usually its war that gets it but its possible mid expansion any job could.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

I don’t think SE needs statistics from Savage Content to make adjustments to AST right now.... SCH and WHM will have more light shed on them through out the raid tier, but AST is already at such a huge disadvantage, I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw a major overhaul, similar to WAR at the start of SB.

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No they don't need savage, though they are probably waiting for it for 'numbers'.

Healing design team have never come close to any sort of balance and i honestly don't ever expect it at this point, which is a real shame because healing was fun but it is becoming less engaging as time goes on for the sake of this balance, they need someone who can be wholly committed to healers and only healers because right now they have repeatedly made it seem like healers are an afterthought.
/minirant over

With a way a certain sector of the dps healer population operates, there's no need for feedback from them regardless.

You hear certain terms like 'moving the goalpost' that shows they have absolutely no intention of working within the new system. They had their minds made up from the beginning and no matter what content there is, the answer is 'nope healers suck change them back'. This is why your feedback is just straight noise. Come at it with genuine good faith and maybe it will bring something to the discussion.

I would expect someone with a Dragon Warrior 3 name to not be in that category of player. It's really a shame.

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Originally Posted by Toystore

With a way a certain sector of the dps healer population operates, there's no need for feedback from them regardless.

You hear certain terms like 'moving the goalpost' that shows they have absolutely no intention of working within the new system. They had their minds made up from the beginning and no matter what content there is, the answer is 'nope healers suck change them back'. This is why your feedback is just straight noise. Come at it with genuine good faith and maybe it will bring something to the discussion.

I would expect someone with a Dragon Warrior 3 name to not be in that category of player. It's really a shame.

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Dps when i can hlr here

Whm - in a good spot so long as it keeps it's current momentum of being a powerhouse not much needs to happen just potentially a dps lily expender so you are not waiting for people to take damage as damage is not always going out so solace/rapture is not always needed.

Sch- Energy drain, give this back which won't change anything about current sch except give the decision do i expend this aetherflow stack on dps or will i need it for healing. Nothing else changes and sch will remain where it is.

Ast - Buff healing, CU, CO and Divination, most people who are fine with the new system are asking for ast buffs that are for numbers being upped/cd reductions, yes there are people asking for an overhaul to get back SB ast because it was that much better than current ast but they would also admit ast was a bit too good at the same time.

People are focusing on dps because when it comes to higher end content people unfortunately judge how much you can bring to a party when you start to feel inadequate people will start to exclude you from groups and i'd rather not have a 3.0 ast repeat

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

Listen... if someone hates something it doesn't make their feedback less valuable. For the record, I categorically refuse to level any healer at all unless this mess is reverted. Backwards design decisions. People DPS as much as they ever did, just with less buttons to do it.

It'd also be odd for more people to love the changes than hate them, given the very obvious shortage of people playing the role since the expansion dropped.

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Queue times seem the same for a DPS, so clearly not -that- much of a shortage.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Queue times seem the same for a DPS, so clearly not -that- much of a shortage.

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But there are times even when leveling a tank, you can get some pretty long queues as well . Heck, even when I see some of these DPS in need roulettes pop up, the queue seems to take a really long time. I just had one where the wait was still something like 20+ minutes and I was 50th in the role list despite DPS being "in need." I think something might be wonky with the "in need" bonus calculations... but I don't know what's going on with it nor will I pretend to.

I hope they do not give AST the DRK treatment and make them wait until 6.0

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

/laughs in White Mage

Are you sure about that?

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Thread number... 57 about healers you're late to the bandwagon it's over that way.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

Thread number... 57 about healers you're late to the bandwagon it's over that way.

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If the feedback helsp I'll gladly participate in thread number 157

Not not expecting life changing buffs to healers when Normal comes out *cough* AST... But im at least hoping for some minor potency increases and cd shortenings here and there.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Except the design has changed. Not on the encounter side, but on the healer side.

All the healers have been 'complaining' about healing being more difficult, less so for WHM but it's still there, which means you're healing more to make up for it.

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Healing only has become more challenging between 71-80 in dungeons when a tank goes for wall to wall pulls and doesn't manage their cooldowns.
And between the three healers the level of difficulty varies. I'd say AST has the most trouble in keeping up.
BUT this has been the case in Stormblood as well. At max level things looked very differently because of gear and having more tools to work with.

Overall I don't think healers have been complaining about difficulty but more about playing a healer not being fun anymore.
Combine that with the early struggles in dungeons when the tank pulls multiple groups like they're used to and you have unhappy players.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

I find SCH quite enjoyable to play for everything above lvl 60.
The new healing tools are great, seraph rocks.

If you really think all healers are horrible now, pls feel free to switch; i like being in need.

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I switched. But I'd rather healers be fun to play, like when I started playing this game, healers were in a good place balance wise and gameplay wise and why I was a SCH main. Healer changes never really "evolved" from there, they kinda sidestepped instead and seemingly weren't exactly sure what they wanted to do with healers. Great that you enjoy it, I mean, I don't expect everybody to share the same opinion as I do, but bear in mind that people will always have their feedback and people will tend to have their preferred roles and don't like it when something they were invested in and enjoyed is made to be unenjoyable for them.

But I changed, like I expect quite a few other healers, because seeing a dip in healer activity may bring attention to the dissatisfaction and also because I don't hold out hope the changes will be positive soon and I'd rather enjoy the job I'm playing. But people will keep playing their role for a plethora of reasons, it may be their position in their static, it may be their most comfortable role, it may be they only like healing and nothing else, it may be because it's what they know and they've invested a lot of time perfecting it, it may be because they hold out hope these issues will get resolved at some point, it may be just the fact it's their favourite job and they'll suffer through the bad times.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

If the feedback helsp I'll gladly participate in thread number 157

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I think that's a fair point. When I go over to the tank and DPS forums, there's fewer threads complaining about the state of tanking and the state of DPSing. One could look at the forums and see the complaints and draw the conclusion "those who're dissatisfied will speak louder than those who're happy, so it is expected you'll see more unhappy threads than happy ones" and you could dismiss a certain amount, but if one were to look at how proportionally high the number of healer complaints, threads and comments are then it wouldn't take a genius to look at that and say "well, there's a problem here".

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Originally Posted by Toystore

With a way a certain sector of the dps healer population operates, there's no need for feedback from them regardless.

You hear certain terms like 'moving the goalpost' that shows they have absolutely no intention of working within the new system. They had their minds made up from the beginning and no matter what content there is, the answer is 'nope healers suck change them back'. This is why your feedback is just straight noise. Come at it with genuine good faith and maybe it will bring something to the discussion.

I would expect someone with a Dragon Warrior 3 name to not be in that category of player. It's really a shame.

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From some who has made a statement that may be taken as "let's not let them move the goalposts": I have no problem with change. I just don't want them to change my favourite job to be less fun. Changing everything back would be the easiest solution, but if they can find another solution that works I'm open to that. Although the design decisions made for healers so far this expansion don't inspire a great deal of faith (WHM aside).

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Originally Posted by RulerOfPotaoes

Not not expecting life changing buffs to healers when Normal comes out *cough* AST... But im at least hoping for some minor potency increases and cd shortenings here and there.

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I think AST may actually get heal potency buffs this coming Tuesday. They normally wait until Savage but AST is so weak at the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if they were buffed earlier.

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Originally Posted by Toystore

With a way a certain sector of the dps healer population operates, there's no need for feedback from them regardless.

You hear certain terms like 'moving the goalpost' that shows they have absolutely no intention of working within the new system. They had their minds made up from the beginning and no matter what content there is, the answer is 'nope healers suck change them back'. This is why your feedback is just straight noise. Come at it with genuine good faith and maybe it will bring something to the discussion.

I would expect someone with a Dragon Warrior 3 name to not be in that category of player. It's really a shame.

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I'm sorry, but in what regard do you think this new "system" can be worked with? Of course we had our minds made up from the beginning. We saw the tooltips. Many Scholars were vocal that we needed an Aetherflow dump well before the xpac dropped. To the literal surprise of no one, Scholars have too much Aetherflow and are either not using their stacks and overflowing or worse, overhealing for the sake of being efficient (which is a paradox).

You seem to be under some impression that there is a new system in place for healing. Have you healed in this expansion? Nothing has changed. Damage is a touch higher (gear is why, class unfamiliarity, etc) but as the Extremes have shown, nothing has changed. I am still using Broil (II) for most of the encounter. In fact, I have so much Aetherflow in these battles, that I just don't refresh it. I leveled as a Scholar from 70-80. I've played the class since 2.4 when I joined. What system do you believe is in place? That I have one DoT and 1 nuke now? Is that this legendary system? Because that is the only change my class received. Unless you're saying I'm not working with Seraph? I don't even understand what you're saying. Do you even know what Scholar got in 5.0? We're not radically different in the healing department. Our fairy sucks (always does at the start of the xpac but gets better with gear), Indom was nerfed slightly, Sacred Soil because stupid good and Recitation is really good. What exactly am I not working with?

I'm literally only complaining about my DPS rotation and how bad it feels to play because you waste resources. I could honestly have a watering bird sit on my keyboard and literally do 70% of my job in an Extreme encounter. Honestly if you're going to white knight at least pretend like you know what you're talking about. Do you know why very little to no Scholar is complaining about our healing abilities? I'll clue you in. There's not much to complain about because very little changed.

Here's my feedback. It sucks. I spend most of my time doing damage and always will. If that's the encounter design, then at least make the times I am not healing interesting and fun. Pressing Broil II 11x (assuming a GCD of 2.5) and Biolysis once per 30 seconds, I am spending 91.6% of my DPS rotation pressing a single button. Assuming a ten minute encounter, that's potentially 220 Broil IIs and 20 Biolysis. Now if I spend half the encounter DPSing (pretty fair, possible too fair) I have cast Broil II 110x and Biolysis 15x. What if I learn the encounter and can DPS for longer? Maybe 60% of the encounter? Most of my heals are oGCD so it's very possible. 70%? Regardless, I think it's very fair to say you spend most of your time, as a healer, DPSing in any level of content, from casual to Ultimate. Pressing 1 button 91.6% of the time I don't have to heal is not fun or engaging. Can I pass your little gateway into this discussion now?

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

But there are times even when leveling a tank, you can get some pretty long queues as well . Heck, even when I see some of these DPS in need roulettes pop up, the queue seems to take a really long time. I just had one where the wait was still something like 20+ minutes and I was 50th in the role list despite DPS being "in need." I think something might be wonky with the "in need" bonus calculations... but I don't know what's going on with it nor will I pretend to.

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I believe that the "in need" boost is flawed / inaccurate at the moment, seeing as how I will queue as DPS for the need bonus, like you say, with a 5-10 min wait, or tank in need with again 5 min wait. But queue as healer and get insta pop when it's not showing as in need. (I play healer 95% of the time)

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Originally Posted by Toystore

You hear certain terms like 'moving the goalpost' that shows they have absolutely no intention of working within the new system.

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There is no new system. Thus the goalposts are exactly where they were last expansion. We don't move them for imaginary novelty.

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Originally Posted by Toystore

With a way a certain sector of the dps healer population operates, there's no need for feedback from them regardless.

You hear certain terms like 'moving the goalpost' that shows they have absolutely no intention of working within the new system. They had their minds made up from the beginning and no matter what content there is, the answer is 'nope healers suck change them back'. This is why your feedback is just straight noise. Come at it with genuine good faith and maybe it will bring something to the discussion.

I would expect someone with a Dragon Warrior 3 name to not be in that category of player. It's really a shame.

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What new system? Where's this magical, mythical content that will turn the perception of healing on its head? Because I ain't seeing it.

I started this expansion around i388. Comparatively undergeared for what I could have been at (ie much closer to i400), but I largely stopped upgrading my gear once my raid group disbanded because someone had to leave. But certainly within the realms of what could be expected. From my very first run in Holminster Switch, I was doing wall to wall pulls. I only upgraded my weapon via coffers (saved the rest of other classes) and the rest was from whatever dropped (which wasn't much), so my gear began to lag behind, but it made little to no difference. I was DPSing most of the time, just like I have been doing before this expansion landed. Just like I was doing when Stormblood landed. When HW landed.

I cleared Innocence EX and Titania EX this weekend (only time the majority of my friends could get together without excessive connection issues that have been plaguing a couple). They were much the same as any other extreme trial. Certainly not the most heal heavy ones I've ever done by far.

So where is it? What are we not seeing? Where's this grand scheme that is somehow flying under the radar that makes up for...all of this? Because all I'm seeing is healer island suffering from a severe drought of engagement while DPS and tanks are rife with it.