Pulling the bosses In dungeons as DPS a thing now?

To be honest, is it really a problem unless the group dies? It really is self entitlement and a sense of superiority from tanks who did what you did. To be honest, I would have vote kicked you too. The only issue would have been if someone wasn't ready, but what gives or places the tank as the authority to decide if the group is ready or not? An experienced DS can also easily determine that, it's not some special tank insight.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

Thats Tank entitlement of the finest.

Of Course its usually better to let the Tank pull to keep the pace.

But "You spank it, you tank it" was never a good approach. Tanking is the tanks job.

Imagine that with another role:
Healer suddenly doesn´t heal you anymore because you stood in an avoidable aoe?
"You let it hit, your Sh**"

Meele stops doing dps because the mob was turned and he didn´t get his positional?
"You turn it, you kill it"

Its always the Tanks that complain if they don´t get there "special Snowflake" treatment.

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While off topic I did run into a healer like this and it was honestly a blast the rage fest was insane but honestly it was an enjoyable run.

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

Actually nice to see people starting to kick tanks who think like that. Like already stated, self entitlement at its finest!

Oh, and DPS have an easy ride? Are you kidding? Tanking now is by far the easiest and most mind-numbing role of them all in a Dungeon. If anything, YOU should be thanking the DPS for burning things down quickly for you, while all you have to do is press one button for aggro and one button for CDs. SMH.

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Hm.... what's that I taste? Oh yeah, how could I forget the taste of overwhelming salt.

It's not about difficulty, mate. It's about how DPS can't take more than like 3 hits but think they can pull groups and expect me to save them. It's like if I queued up as a PLD and said "uhm... I'm healing this dungeon now? Piss off healer?"

And honestly, if you're too sensitive to handle a tank like me, please by all means kick me. I won't get a penalty and can re-queue and get in way faster than you can. Do us all a favor if you can't handle it.

Some people here seem to not understand what each role is suposed to do so I'll explain:

- TANK: COMUNICATION, lead the group (choosing the path, pulling, guidelines, countdowns and limit breaks.) All this while keeping aggro on all mobs, be considerate for positionals and AoE, and use cooldowns and crowd control to survive.

- HEALER: Again, COMUNICATION, if your tank is going a bit slow and you're just chilling, invite him to pull more. Keep everyone's HP as high as possible and without status ailments, manage your mana accordingly and use cooldowns coordinated with the tank for bigger pulls and faster dungeons runs. If you don't have anything to heal or damage taken is low, help with DPS.

- DPS: Do all the damage you can, use cooldowns properly and avoid putting extra stress on the other roles (this includes pulling yourself instead of the tank, standing in AoEs and not using your own defensive cooldowns)

I really think some people are overthinking this entire situation. Basic case of making a mountain out of a mole hill. I do not even think the OP even cares anymore.

A DPS pulled mobs for me in a dungeon and I intentionally ignored those mobs, let them die, the healer died, but lol TBN and finished the pack with the other DPS.

I was asked what happened, told them, they pulled that mob, not me. The DPS did not pull ahead after that.

With all the new skill changes I am not gonna pull wall to wall without knowing how to keep myself alive or the healer's comfort. Now, if a healer pulls, alright. It's a sign that they can handle it, and I'm cool with that. They're the one in charge of keeping my health from hitting 0 after all. Not the DPS. Tanking is the tank's job. If someone else wants to try, let em. But let them know they chose to be the tank in instances like that.

If they can't handle teamwork with strangers then they should queue with a 100% premade so they can bumble together.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Probably didn't want his timer or stacks or whatever it is Dragoons have to run out.

Honestly, who cares? You could have taken it off him in literal seconds, it wouldn't have really effected your run, and you'd have finished the dungeon, got your loot and forgotten all about it by now.

Instead you got kicked, had to start over, you wasted your own time and theirs, and the whole thing has evidently annoyed you enough to make this topic about it.

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I keep seeing all this time time time posting. Wasting time? It's an mmo. You're supposed to go in with the mentality of "this is gonna take awhile." It's how these games work. They were not in a savage raid or EX just hitting 1%. It was a boss that takes like 5 minutes. Calmato.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I keep seeing all this time time time posting. Wasting time? It's an mmo. You're supposed to go in with the mentality of "this is gonna take awhile." It's how these games work. They were not in a savage raid or EX just hitting 1%. It was a boss that takes like 5 minutes. Calmato.

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It'd take 4m 48s if you don't make the monk start from zero.

Get in there.

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Originally Posted by Gula

A DPS pulled mobs for me in a dungeon and I intentionally ignored those mobs, let them die, the healer died, but lol TBN and finished the pack with the other DPS.

I was asked what happened, told them, they pulled that mob, not me. The DPS did not pull ahead after that.

With all the new skill changes I am not gonna pull wall to wall without knowing how to keep myself alive or the healer's comfort. Now, if a healer pulls, alright. It's a sign that they can handle it, and I'm cool with that. They're the one in charge of keeping my health from hitting 0 after all. Not the DPS. Tanking is the tank's job. If someone else wants to try, let em. But let them know they chose to be the tank in instances like that.

If they can't handle teamwork with strangers then they should queue with a 100% premade so they can bumble together.



I keep seeing all this time time time posting. Wasting time? It's an mmo. You're supposed to go in with the mentality of "this is gonna take awhile." It's how these games work. They were not in a savage raid or EX just hitting 1%. It was a boss that takes like 5 minutes. Calmato.

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You are right it is an MMO and that means playing with others which means working as a team. Clearly the group in question did not think turning off tank stance in spite was being a team player was being a team player, so they removed the tank.

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Originally Posted by Awha

You are right it is an MMO and that means playing with others which means working as a team. Clearly the group in question did not think turning off tank stance in spite was being a team player was being a team player, so they removed the tank.

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Can't wait for Tank to get back to Need status so you're stuck waiting half an hour. Though, I'm going to pull elitist here and reason people likely put up with my preferences because I'm a female roe and we're so rare they can't help but to want to observe a bit longer.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Hm.... what's that I taste? Oh yeah, how could I forget the taste of overwhelming salt.

It's not about difficulty, mate. It's about how DPS can't take more than like 3 hits but think they can pull groups and expect me to save them. It's like if I queued up as a PLD and said "uhm... I'm healing this dungeon now? Piss off healer?"

And honestly, if you're too sensitive to handle a tank like me, please by all means kick me. I won't get a penalty and can re-queue and get in way faster than you can. Do us all a favor if you can't handle it.

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You got it all wrong buddy. I wouldn't be salty about a problem that has never affected me in anyway before, now would I? It's more like satisfaction in seeing people are finally acting up accordingly upon meeting egocentrical players instead of just putting on with it.

And let's talk about about being sensitive, when it's the tank player that refuses to press one button to re-stabilish aggro and you know, do their job, just because a dps player pulled a mob before they could. Omg, you pulled, you're tanking because my ego can't handle it. Who is the overly sensitive player here again?

And no, kicking a bad tank would in very rare situations result in the kicked tank getting a faster clear, even more now that tank queues are not as fast anymore. Please, this is a dungeon, any DPS can easily pull mobs and be kept alive by healers. If anything, they will clear the place faster than the kicked tank and actually having a blast while doing it, probably even with a better tank too 'cause you know... people do have friends.
But if you wanna keep believing they are having the worst for kicking you, well... whatever floats your boat.

But you got one thing right though. I really can't handle any kind of stupid behaviour.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Can't wait for Tank to get back to Need status so you're stuck waiting half an hour. Though, I'm going to pull elitist here and reason people likely put up with my preferences because I'm a female roe and we're so rare they can't help but to want to observe a bit longer.

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His character is literally called Tin Can, I doubt he'll be stuck waiting for tanks.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Can't wait for Tank to get back to Need status so you're stuck waiting half an hour. Though, I'm going to pull elitist here and reason people likely put up with my preferences because I'm a female roe and we're so rare they can't help but to want to observe a bit longer.

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It has been nice not always being a needed role has allowed me to play other classes with friends since none of them play tanks.

Also I think generally people put up with tanks since most do not care enough to say anything and probably check out the dungeon if the tanks do things like the OP or smaller pulls. From my experience you also may be right if their has been a sudden increase of removing tanks. Not sure if people have been removing tanks more or not since ShB or not. I just notice it more since my friends and wannabe tryhards so back in SB I did replace a many tanks they removed because they knew I or another tank was lurking around on discord.

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Originally Posted by Awha

It has been nice not always being a needed role has allowed me to play other classes with friends since none of them play tanks.

Also I think generally people put up with tanks since most do not care enough to say anything and probably check out the dungeon if the tanks do things like the OP or smaller pulls. From my experience you also may be right if their has been a sudden increase of removing tanks. Not sure if people have been removing tanks more or not since ShB or not. I just notice it more since my friends and wannabe tryhards so back in SB I did replace a many tanks they removed because they knew I or another tank was lurking around on discord.

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I've been binging Kitchen Nightmares, and I think there's a pretty poignant sentiment there.

"Do you honestly think because no one is sending food back, they love it?"

I know personally I put up with a mediocre tank over kicking them because there's no telling how long that wait is going to take. It's also why the second job I level in expansions is a tank, so if I'm not feeling like trying my luck, I make my own.

I feel like there would be significantly -more- tank kicks if we could re-queue as different jobs.

Honestly, I dont run into many tanks simply because I'm maining GNB, and I have yet to be kicked from anything. Most of the vitriol i get is from playing the new "noob trap" job but never once been because of my performance. I'm actually usually praised for it. So in my case, I've been finding more less than ideal healers, and them just.... idling in combat. So I think in general, if it's not some sort of anecdotal placebo, that it's not just a rise in terrible tanks that need to be kicked.

I havent seen or initiated any kicks, myself. So I think it is totally a situation of tolerance. Tanks might not be a rare commodity right now as theyve been in the past, but are you going to take the time to wait and possibly get a worse tank? A healer?
The unfortunate thing in this case is that DPS are pretty replaceable, especially if they arent using AoE on big pulls... but then its a question of "do i seriously wanna look like 'that guy' right now and cause a bunch of worthless drama?"

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

snipped whining

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I checked your previous posts, and a whole bunch of them are whining about "entitled tanks", even in other threads. Maybe you need to calm down and stop obsessing over people tanking in a way you don't like. You really have a problem with tanks existing in a way that doesn't serve you, so I want to suggest maybe taking a moment to consider why you get so worked up about it.

I think it should be of note, tone. Passive aggressive arguing will tick people off more than outright jerkery. "Please don't pull for me." speaks loud and true. You set the expectation of the pace, and maybe people will listen.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I've been binging Kitchen Nightmares, and I think there's a pretty poignant sentiment there.

"Do you honestly think because no one is sending food back, they love it?"

I know personally I put up with a mediocre tank over kicking them because there's no telling how long that wait is going to take. It's also why the second job I level in expansions is a tank, so if I'm not feeling like trying my luck, I make my own.

I feel like there would be significantly -more- tank kicks if we could re-queue as different jobs.

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Oh I do not think people love it, though as you said I think people put up with tank entitlement due to how long a replacement may take. My experience with this topic differs from others because I happen to play with people that will kick a tank the moment they can if they single pull, or healer that refuses to dps etc. . . So I really do not know how the overall community handles things like that. I mean when I started to play this game my friends pretty much told me to level as a warrior since they would force me to do wall to wall pulls even at level 15.

Overall I agree with you again many probably do not love how tanks or healers play but happen to put up with it because the game does not offer an easy replacement. I also think this is why we have tanks and healers that think so highly of themselves. Would be nice if we could just switch jobs if someone leaves, I know if that was the case I would probably try to kick more players instead of counting the minutes until I can leave the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I think it should be of note, tone. Passive aggressive arguing will tick people off more than outright jerkery. "Please don't pull for me." speaks loud and true. You set the expectation of the pace, and maybe people will listen.

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I definitely say things like that, sometimes without the please if I'm particularly cheesed off. They always assume they can do no wrong and that I'm "getting mad even though no one died" or whatever their excuse usually is.

I don't even know where this poor tanking attitude came from. You're really a dime a dozen role. You get kicked and someone else will come in and do you're job just as well. (Maybe better) And yes, same thing is said about dps and healer roles also. But that's the point, you're not special for playing tank, and the group shouldn't have to treat you otherwise.

Some of you are actually acting like you are doing the world a favor for tanking.


Reality is as a tank, just grab the dang aggro. It's not hard, and if your dps is doing it for you then just say to them to please don't. You're not helping the group by throwing a hissy fit at the dps.

Honestly, I really only see Dps pull bosses which I have zero issues with. It's really only healers that seem to pull extra mobs because I'm not pulling enough. Which since they are my life line, is fair game. :P

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Originally Posted by battleshadow66

I don't even know where this poor tanking attitude came from. You're really a dime a dozen role.

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That's not what people were saying before GNB. Tanks run ahead. Tanks pull the boss. It's 2 year old putting shape blocks down logic. If a tank isn't pulling. DPS need to be working on making the current mob die faster.

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Originally Posted by Rubytoe

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Honestly, on principle, I'd probably just kick you. The DRG knows his buff timers and unless you were trailing a tankbuster behind, you could have just pulled off him when you arrived. Why slow things down and screw over your DPS's buffs just so you get your daily dose of implicit bows and scrapes?

Whenever I'm tanking with a NIN or MNK, I go when they Hide or reach Coeurl stance, and if somehow they get ahead of me for whatever reason, I just let them pull to best fit their TA timings or maintain GL. Because, again, why not?

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Originally Posted by Gula

That's not what people were saying before GNB. Tanks run ahead. Tanks pull the boss. It's 2 year old putting shape blocks down logic. If a tank isn't pulling. DPS need to be working on making the current mob die faster.

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DPS pulling dungeon bosses was possibly more of a problem (if there was one) before 5.0 where tanks wanted to establish that initial aggro lead before dropping tank stance. These days, for dungeon bosses, with the new enmity rules, it's not a horrible breakdown in team play.

In the chat the group accused the tank of feeding, and there's a pretty good case to make for it.

if I'm in that party, I think I would vote you a kick too. I'm not saying that the DRG isn't wrong, but deliberately countering wrong with another wrong is just a waste of time and too unproductive. Childish too.

Putting that aside, when DPS run ahead and pull the boss, most of the time it's the healers who are forced to cover for all the mess (healing and keeping the DPS alive and get targeted next due to heal enmity etc). As tank, all you need to do is to just pull the enemies off of other people. Like, I understand if you're a healer and you're angry because of all the extra works you need to do, but I don't really understand why you need to be angry as a tank, considering you don't even need extra effort to pull a boss off someone with the new enmity rule.

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

Actually nice to see people starting to kick tanks who think like that. Like already stated, self entitlement at its finest!

Oh, and DPS have an easy ride? Are you kidding? Tanking now is by far the easiest and most mind-numbing role of them all in a Dungeon. If anything, YOU should be thanking the DPS for burning things down quickly for you, while all you have to do is press one button for aggro and one button for CDs. SMH.

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Once the DRK and GNB hype dies down lets see how long you will still have that mentality.

While I agree with others that you acted poorly, I also disagree with a lot of people saying that the DRG was in the right.
The tank sets the pace imo, if you don't like it then you can deal with it for a dungeon every now and again.
I think that it's kind of a douchebag thing to do to stress the tank out by running ahead and pulling tbh, especially since you don't know how confident the tank is or they might have some handicap and need to play slower.

You don't have to act like a ten year old high on sugar all of the time, you can deal with dropping your buffs or whatever every once and a while.

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Originally Posted by Magnedeus

Because they are not the tanks and should not be pulling anything of the sort smh.

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You say that like it should mean something, but...

Every role exists for one purpose and one purpose only -- to make content, on average, faster. If a task being performed by X role exclusively is slower than when it's not, then you're working counter-intuitively, to say the least.

In some cases, things do absolutely go faster when the tank pulls. But let's not pretend that just because something applies some of the time, it should be held as a universal rule.

When should the tank pull? When their pulling makes things faster.
When does it not at all matter? Any other time.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

You say that like it should mean something, but...

Every role exists for one purpose and one purpose only -- to make content, on average, faster. If a task being performed by X role exclusively is slower than when it's not, then you're working counter-intuitively, to say the least.

In some cases, things do absolutely go faster when the tank pulls. But let's not pretend that just because something applies some of the time, it should be held as a universal rule.

When should the tank pull? When their pulling makes things faster.
When does it not at all matter? Any other time.

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if i could downvote then i would because this is so horribly wrong i dont know what to say. the tank is there so the fight isnt a horrible mess where the boss is attacking every which way. the healer is there to keep the party alive and the dps is there to make the boss die faster. the only one that is there to make the fight faster is the dps. if the dps is pulling then i as a healer will not heal them unless the tank charges in to take aggro soon after as i would rather the dps die and me have to res them than me die from healer aggro which would cause a wipe. also there can be reasons why the tank is waiting like if they just did a big pull and had to use there defensive cd's then they might be waiting for them to get closer to coming off cd for that first tank buster which in most fights in shb are within the first 30 seconds of the fight.so i would rather have the tank pull when there comfortable no matter the role i am in since that means less stress on the healer when they have to heal through an unmitigated TB. even if that means the dps lose there buff. especially if its BotD as that is ona pretty short cooldown.

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Originally Posted by dragoelete

the tank is there so the fight isnt a horrible mess where the boss is attacking every which way.

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Which, in removing said messes, makes it faster to complete content. Often, it makes it possible where it would not otherwise be, but that too is an increase in speed.

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Originally Posted by dragoelete

the healer is there to keep the party alive

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Which allows you to complete content faster than if the healer were not there and you had to rely on pots, self-heals, and mitigation. Often, it makes it possible where it would not otherwise be, but that too is an increase in speed.

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Originally Posted by dragoelete

the dps is there to make the boss die faster.

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Need I say it?

When you can consistently complete a fight faster without one of your healers, you generally... replace the healer.
When you can consistently complete a fight faster without one of your tank, you generally... replace the tank.
If we actually had a tank so dangerous that the chance of clearing, and thereby the average clear speed, were increased by having a third healer compared to a fourth dps, we'd replace the dps.

You bring what works. There is no inherent value in a role -- only time saved.

no way DRG doing that for timer. DRG timer is soft easy compare to MNK. 30s CD is basically you can pop it in every encounter more or less, and on top of it 2 aoe combo will increase it by 10s and you can always pop it again when your timer reach 5s or less.

now if MNK did that, i can understand, iam MNK myself so this GL mess is really pull my hair, but if party want to go slow, iam fine with it.

This is pretty much the reason I rarely tank for DF. It's not going to kill anyone to wait a few secs for the tank to pull. (though I guess these days you aren't wasting your TP on it)

Let’s be honest here, if dps want to pull due to their timer, do it properly and let your party know ahead.

It is extremely rude to do it without acknowledging the party

And please do it properly, position the boss like a tank do, and prepare to let tank take over

There are way too many dps pulling boss left and right cleaving party or running like a chicken making the job of heal and tank harder to take over

When i see how at the end of 4.x the "tanks and healers must dps" mentality did become predominant to the point that half of them were not even caring of healing or keeping aggro properly anymore, i sure hope that the "its alright for dps and healers to pull mobs" one will not become too widespread as well XD

And i am saying that as someone who did never care that his rdm's procs were disappearing if the tank was too slow to aggro the next boss/pack of mobs.

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Oh, and DPS have an easy ride? Are you kidding? Tanking now is by far the easiest and most mind-numbing role of them all in a Dungeon. If anything, YOU should be thanking the DPS for burning things down quickly for you, while all you have to do is press one button for aggro and one button for CDs. SMH.

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I am not a pro at tanking, but using nothing else than unmend and the blackest night looks like an horrible way to play my drk.

@op
Threat management doesn't exist in this game anymore starting with 5.0. You could have taken mob(s)/boss/whatever else off him with one hit in tank stance and it would be glued to you for the rest of the fight with current, retarded over 9000 tank stance multiplier.
And whoever opens the fight certainly doesn't matter in normal mode content, just get the runs done as quickly as possible.

Communication seem to have become an lost art in recent year of FFXIV, and feel like basic respect is following the same trend either

Neither the OP nor the DRG is doing the right thing
Case close

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

Communication seem to have become an lost art in recent year of FFXIV, and feel like basic respect is following the same trend either

Neither the OP nor the DRG is doing the right thing
Case close

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To add onto communication, I'd be mad af if I wanted to stop to type out "I don't know the mechanics can I get pointers."

I'm finding more healers for some reason lately deciding to SPRINT ahead of me and then either impatiently wait at the next set or just outright pull them themselves. Good lord people need to chill out.

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Originally Posted by Valic

I'm finding more healers for some reason lately deciding to SPRINT ahead of me and then either impatiently wait at the next set or just outright pull them themselves. Good lord people need to chill out.

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They probably are thinking good lord this tank needs to hurry up. Though at the core I think "need" in itself is the issue. I hope in the future SE allows us to switch jobs mid dungeon if someone is removed or leaves the group, and people start using the vote kick feature more if a certain players style of play does not align with the overall groups. Role entitlement would go out the window if people knew they could easily be replaced.

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Originally Posted by Valic

I'm finding more healers for some reason lately deciding to SPRINT ahead of me and then either impatiently wait at the next set or just outright pull them themselves. Good lord people need to chill out.

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I had a weird one the other day, where we died twice on the first two trash pulls even though the healer was right there with us...just NOT HEALING. After the second wipe, the healer says "sorry afk for a bit"...but at that point they weren't, they started to actually do stuff, I don't know it was really weird, I guess maybe they meant they "were" afk for a bit, but not anymore? /shrug Whatever, anyway, it was okayish, up to a certain point where suddenly the healer ran ahead and pulled the next pack. I basically just said..."Don't pull again, I didn't go to pull the next pack yet because I can't trust you not to afk unannounced again after we wiped twice on the first two trash pulls."...and it was fine after that.

I love it when they do that while I'm tanking. I had a monk do that in the 71 dungeon. As soon as I realized he was doing it, I typed "brb, restroom" and watched him die. It was satisfyingly amusing. As soon as he died, I typed "back." The healer just lol'd.

Well, usually for a tank to let a DPS die from mob agro, its because the DPS did it too many times and ignored warnings.

Thats mmo etiquete 101... the tank controls the pace of the run unless stated otherwise at the start of the run.

With that in mind, people need to comunicate their peculiarities ("pull faster", "pull more", "pull less", etc.)