Please, let us cast glamor plate anywhere.....!!!

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

I'm not sure if I'm for glamoring *everywhere* (during dungeons? raids? trials?), but at any sanctuary (so at least everywhere there's an aethyrite crystal) would be fine, IMO.

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Yeah that's what i'd fine nice an logical too. Glamouring out in the wild near a monster, in dungeon, in raid or trial seem over the top. However, using glamour plates at big aetherite sanctuaries seem just right.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

I'm not sure if I'm for glamoring *everywhere* (during dungeons? raids? trials?), but at any sanctuary (so at least everywhere there's an aethyrite crystal) would be fine, IMO.

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Why not? If I want to put on a different glamour for every pull, why shouldn't I be able to do that?

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

I'm not sure if I'm for glamoring *everywhere* (during dungeons? raids? trials?), but at any sanctuary (so at least everywhere there's an aethyrite crystal) would be fine, IMO.

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Gatherers often swap back and forth particularly between BTN and MIN while out in the field, so this rule effectively prevents glamouring them differently.

And people can swap gear while in dungeons (which can be quite useful either when you level up or get a good on-level drop), and may want to glamour their new gear when they do so.

While being able to use glamour plates at any sanctuary would be a welcome improvement over what we have now, it would ideally be any time we can change gear.

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Originally Posted by ShariusTC

... as long as we aren't in battle

it's funny that we can cast individual piece with glamor prism everywhere but glamor plate only limit in town

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This would be such an amazing QoL feature!

The game engine was not designed with glamour plates. Thus the limitations. The game was not built with the intention of glamour.

Second YOU DO NOT NEED AN OUTFIT FOR EVERY SINGLE CLASS, CHOOSE AN OUTFIT AND STICK TO IT AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE CLASS TOU USE ONCE A MONTH LOOKS LIKE. Be decisive.

They mentioned the difficulties of the glamour system a while back ago. We were asked what we would prefer they work on first, between more plates, more storage, and more places to use them. I believe it was fairly split between storage and space, and they delivered. I'm happy with the result, however, I feel now it's time to at least try to make that third one happen. If it can only be done in rest areas then that's fine. The final thing I desire is to be able to access the wardrobe and edit plates from anywhere, though of course that's essentially just inventory space at that point, and I understand the extremity of it.

Yeah in areas where there's an Aetherite/Town would be fine :) Don't need it over the top in mid battle etc.

I don't buy the reason given for why they can't allow glam outside the cities. Have they even seen the crowd of people in Limsa? Do people on the JP servers not stand around inside the cities? There's often fewer people OUTside the cities than INside, at least as far as population in a single area.

Another reason I don't buy it the OP already pointed out: We can use prisms outside the city. I know this doesn't access the dresser and glam plates, but if your set up is so fragile that accessing those will cause catastrophic results, you've done a lot wrong. I'll defend this game on a lot of things, but this is one of those I cannot defend.

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Second YOU DO NOT NEED AN OUTFIT FOR EVERY SINGLE CLASS, CHOOSE AN OUTFIT AND STICK TO IT AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE CLASS TOU USE ONCE A MONTH LOOKS LIKE. Be decisive.

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YOU don't want it so you're saying that other people don't, and claiming that people "need" it. Using your logic, we don't "need" more than one plate. That's just a bad argument.

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Originally Posted by Anyan

Can we at least be able to change them in Mor Dhona? I have no idea why we can change it in all other hubs but not there.

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Because there is no loading screen between Mor Dhona and its surrounding Area. Its all the same instance.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

Because there is no loading screen between Mor Dhona and its surrounding Area. Its all the same instance.

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Y'know.. that's really stupid, but you're probably right.

My god this system is badly designed.

Glamours Without Borders!

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Limited inventory space.
The Glamour Dresser is an additional inventory system that can only be accessed in cities, because accessing it in the field (along with retainer inventories) would put too much strain on the servers.

Whether this is still the case? Who knows, they might be able to fix this soon.

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Sounds like a flaw in design, then. And if the reason is "strain on the servers", consider that there's more people INside cities than OUTside as far as population present in single zones. Just look at Limsa on pretty much any server. It's got dozens upon dozens of people within spawn radius of the main crystal. I've seen people spam through classes and outfits without issue. If the servers can handle that, they can handle it outside the cities.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

Sounds like a flaw in design, then. And if the reason is "strain on the servers", consider that there's more people INside cities than OUTside as far as population present in single zones. Just look at Limsa on pretty much any server. It's got dozens upon dozens of people within spawn radius of the main crystal. I've seen people spam through classes and outfits without issue. If the servers can handle that, they can handle it outside the cities.

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Indeed there are many flaws in the design. Mostly stemming from the way this game came to be a success. Glamour links to an item database that checks our inventories several times every few seconds. Denying a further link to the separate glamour inventory is likely the reason it's limited. Also people cannot enter battle in instanced cities, allowing for more bandwidth to be dedicated to the item system (also why there are likely no MB's outside instanced cities). There are other considerations I cannot confirm but suspect such as allowing for possibilities like glamourspamming and setting it so it does not crash a server if a significant population in any given area does it.

Yes the system could have been better, but it's what we've got now and it's relatively useful. Would it be nice if they reworked the whole thing? Sure, please sign me up. But the chances of that happening are slim to none since it would require chucking the current inventory or glamour system altogether, both of which are now pretty interwoven in every part of the game. I wouldn't count on SE ever greenlighting something of that magnitude or cost.

O_O It's kinda mind boggling what people see as important these days.

i would love this but i doubt they'll do it

The mentioned this at a fanfest a while back. It is coming but they can only work on different elements one at a time. Yoshi gave the crowd three options from which to choose the most important to them. One was being able to apply glamour plates outside of cities, another was having more plates.... and I can't remember the last one.

For whatever reason, the crowd decided more plates was a bigger priority than being able to change glamours outside of cities.... which was really disappointing to say the least. Personally, I have various glamours I like to change into for when I am in cold and warm areas, a simple cloak for when its raining and then just general swim wear (because swimming and diving in full armour looks ridiculous to me) and honestly I'd like to be able to do all that without having to sacrifice my primary gear's stats. I can live without this feature in dungeons but it would be nice to have too since, if you get a drop in a dungeon that's an upgrade, the plates won't overwrite the new piece - which is admittedly a small issue but hey, if its possible then why not?

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Originally Posted by EmoPanther

O_O It's kinda mind boggling what people see as important these days.

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hey! The Light may be trying to destroy an entire world, and the Garlean Empire may be trying to extinct all life on Eorzea, but if I don't look smashing while fighting them, why am I fighting at all?!

Yes! I hate grinding levels and looking like an explosion in a charity shop with ugly mismatched gear.

Allow us to glam plate during fights, changing glam during the fight to apply dominance and beauty.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

Imo they need completely rework the glamour system
Something like wow. You get an item, its "copy" is automatically stored in glam dresser, and you can not interect with that copy by any means outside of drag'n'drop on plates
Moreover they can do that system client side with a backup on the server
Boom, easy solution

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The one thing I wish they would take from WoW tbh. Transmog has its own problems, but it's way less limited and way less painful for my inventory than glamour is right now.

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Originally Posted by EmoPanther

O_O It's kinda mind boggling what people see as important these days.

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Nothing wrong with people valuing different things in a game. Personally the look and style of the gear and characters is one of the things that drew me to this game at all - I like customizing how my character looks, and I change up my look very often. It's important to me because it's something I enjoy. I don't see anything "mind-boggling" about that.

agreed. Every time i get a new piece of gear I have to teleport to the main city and apply my glam and tele back :)

Why even make a weird "glamour" system. Just give us a fashion-equipment menu wheere we put in the stuff we want to overlay our current equipment.

This was used already in the 90s. Don't fix what worked.

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Originally Posted by BatLW

Why even make a weird "glamour" system. Just give us a fashion-equipment menu wheere we put in the stuff we want to overlay our current equipment.

This was used already in the 90s. Don't fix what worked.

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The reason they won't do this is the coders don't wish to cede the players that much control. Anytime you see something this arbitrary, its because someone decided to make a decision, for better or worse, 'just because'. Think about it. Whenever you're running a dungeon that requires you to click a door and its asks 'are you sure?' Why does such a pop up even exist? Why is there a cast time to pick up a key to a door and then a confirmation to use the key?

There shouldn't be. But yet someone thought it ought to be that way and here we are.

So why is there a glam system? Because a coder thought that for a player to use something, they should register it with a dresser and return to that dresser or a city that can house it. Because to make your armor look like something its not, it needs to be 'worked' on. Why? Because it just needs to be. Its arbitrary. It adds no enjoyment to the system, it adds nothing of value. It wastes time because the one who made it thought it ought to take time for taking times' sake.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

The reason they won't do this is the coders don't wish to cede the players that much control. Anytime you see something this arbitrary, its because someone decided to make a decision, for better or worse, 'just because'. Think about it. Whenever you're running a dungeon that requires you to click a door and its asks 'are you sure?' Why does such a pop up even exist? Why is there a cast time to pick up a key to a door and then a confirmation to use the key?

There shouldn't be. But yet someone thought it ought to be that way and here we are.

So why is there a glam system? Because a coder thought that for a player to use something, they should register it with a dresser and return to that dresser or a city that can house it. Because to make your armor look like something its not, it needs to be 'worked' on. Why? Because it just needs to be. Its arbitrary. It adds no enjoyment to the system, it adds nothing of value. It wastes time because the one who made it thought it ought to take time for taking times' sake.

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There are also very likely to be actual coding or gameplay reasons behind it. Nobody strives to make a frustrating game for frustrations sake. There are numerous threads detailing what and how the system is badly made and how what we play is layered over previous poor decisions. It's highly unlikely that someone decided one day that glamour HAD to have certain limitations just because and so it does.

I just wish they spent an entire expansion getting rid of 1.0 code

This is the main reason I still use the old glamour system :x The plates always seemed super clunky and really not worth it at all.

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Originally Posted by JadeStormbrand

This is the main reason I still use the old glamour system :x The plates always seemed super clunky and really not worth it at all.

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The most important thing the plates do is save dyes. I mean really... how many jet black dyes do YOU have just hanging around?

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Originally Posted by Endariel

I just wish they spent an entire expansion getting rid of 1.0 code

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There's like 0% code taken from 1.0, everything was redone for ARR.

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To topic:
I agree with OP, this returning to town business is nonsense. I don't know of any other game that I played that requires you to be within city limits to change glam. Even the glam plates being limited to 15 or so is still weird of a concept but the devs always seem to find an excuse for something.

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Originally Posted by Eriane_Elis

There's like 0% code taken from 1.0, everything was redone for ARR.

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To topic:
I agree with OP, this returning to town business is nonsense. I don't know of any other game that I played that requires you to be within city limits to change glam. Even the glam plates being limited to 15 or so is still weird of a concept but the devs always seem to find an excuse for something.

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For the engine code that's true. But a lot of the database and backend code is still held over from 1.0. It's the direct cause of most of our inventory issues. It's a bad excuse for sure, but there it is.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

There are also very likely to be actual coding or gameplay reasons behind it. Nobody strives to make a frustrating game for frustrations sake. There are numerous threads detailing what and how the system is badly made and how what we play is layered over previous poor decisions. It's highly unlikely that someone decided one day that glamour HAD to have certain limitations just because and so it does.

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I've heard this argument alot, and as a coder in a current project, I can honestly say this is entirely bogus. Here's why:

Every item has an itemID that references it in a database. There's a database on your computer as well as one on the server the itemID references the item in question in those databases. The server only saves the itemID on its side in reference to your character equipment, its location on the character, its location in the inventory, retainers, and chocobo, as well as in the glamour chest and armoire if applicable. Any information on the item referring to the graphic is NOT done on the server.

What happens there is if you have an item equipped, or applied as a glamour. It references the item locally by itemID and displays the graphic from your local database. When showing the graphics on other characters the server shows which itemIDs to show and again it references your local database to show which graphic to show.

This process takes literally single kilobytes of data transfer if even that.

Replacing the glamor inventory and plates with a simple drag and drop like someone suggested would take LESS resources than the current system. In fact the whole process would be LESS server strain than a typical free company spiel in a recruiting message. That's right, those people spouting FC invites and recruiting messages are likely straining the server 10-20x more than a more intuitive glamour system would.

So the suggestions would help server strain, make QoL changes for us players, and be a better experience over all. But we have to get that coder to relinquish the little control they have. It literally is an ego thing. Not a coding thing.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

I've heard this argument alot, and as a coder in a current project, I can honestly say this is entirely bogus. Here's why:

Every item has an itemID that references it in a database. There's a database on your computer as well as one on the server the itemID references the item in question in those databases. The server only saves the itemID on its side in reference to your character equipment, its location on the character, its location in the inventory, retainers, and chocobo, as well as in the glamour chest and armoire if applicable. Any information on the item referring to the graphic is NOT done on the server.

What happens there is if you have an item equipped, or applied as a glamour. It references the item locally by itemID and displays the graphic from your local database. When showing the graphics on other characters the server shows which itemIDs to show and again it references your local database to show which graphic to show.

This process takes literally single kilobytes of data transfer if even that.

Replacing the glamor inventory and plates with a simple drag and drop like someone suggested would take LESS resources than the current system. In fact the whole process would be LESS server strain than a typical free company spiel in a recruiting message. That's right, those people spouting FC invites and recruiting messages are likely straining the server 10-20x more than a more intuitive glamour system would.

So the suggestions would help server strain, make QoL changes for us players, and be a better experience over all. But we have to get that coder to relinquish the little control they have. It literally is an ego thing. Not a coding thing.

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You're forgetting one critical thing: this glamour system never went through any kind of intelligent design process. So while everything you're saying is true and is something I've been trying to explain for years now, it hinges on the system design not being a flaming ball of snakes.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

I've heard this argument alot, and as a coder in a current project, I can honestly say this is entirely bogus. Here's why:

Every item has an itemID that references it in a database. There's a database on your computer as well as one on the server the itemID references the item in question in those databases. The server only saves the itemID on its side in reference to your character equipment, its location on the character, its location in the inventory, retainers, and chocobo, as well as in the glamour chest and armoire if applicable. Any information on the item referring to the graphic is NOT done on the server.

What happens there is if you have an item equipped, or applied as a glamour. It references the item locally by itemID and displays the graphic from your local database. When showing the graphics on other characters the server shows which itemIDs to show and again it references your local database to show which graphic to show.

This process takes literally single kilobytes of data transfer if even that.

Replacing the glamor inventory and plates with a simple drag and drop like someone suggested would take LESS resources than the current system. In fact the whole process would be LESS server strain than a typical free company spiel in a recruiting message. That's right, those people spouting FC invites and recruiting messages are likely straining the server 10-20x more than a more intuitive glamour system would.

So the suggestions would help server strain, make QoL changes for us players, and be a better experience over all. But we have to get that coder to relinquish the little control they have. It literally is an ego thing. Not a coding thing.

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Unless you're actually working on FFXIV I'm dubious as to whether it would be this simple or easy. The people who upgrade and maintain these systems aren't unintelligent, why wouldn't they pick something that was easy? Why would they quote server strain when the thousands upon thousands of people who do this kind of work could easily call them out on it? Just cause they don't want to do the work? Because they WANT to frustrate people?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Unless you're actually working on FFXIV I'm dubious as to whether it would be this simple or easy. The people who upgrade and maintain these systems aren't unintelligent, why wouldn't they pick something that was easy? Why would they quote server strain when the thousands upon thousands of people who do this kind of work could easily call them out on it? Just cause they don't want to do the work? Because they WANT to frustrate people?

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I don't know. Why did SE cry PS2 Limitations for 10 years of FFXI development? Or repeatedly claim something couldn't be done due to insurmountable technical limitations and then do those things a couple years later?

There is an excellent chance that we're not being told the real reasons why a thing is a thing. The issue is that the lie they're telling is so easy to poke holes in, it's kind of embarrassing. The truth is that these problems are all solvable with enough effort put in to solving them the right way.

Remember when preventing you from sending mail to your own characters on the same server was an anti-RMT measure? And then they sold you extra retainers for an increased subscription fee? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

I don't know. Why did SE cry PS2 Limitations for 10 years of FFXI development? Or repeatedly claim something couldn't be done due to insurmountable technical limitations and then do those things a couple years later?

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2 years in the tech world is quite a large time for a solution to be invented/created.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Remember when preventing you from sending mail to your own characters on the same server was an anti-RMT measure? And then they sold you extra retainers for an increased subscription fee? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

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This is a pretty big jump though. At cursory glance you could say "Oh well they're just doing it to limit our inventory space so we have to buy retainers"... but.. it CAN still be for limiting RMT. It's not mutually exclusive.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

The truth is that these problems are all solvable with enough effort put in to solving them the right way.

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Without being a part of the team, I wouldn't confidently state this. I don't know the challenges they face and cannot agree that it's as simple as "someone wants it that way, so it is". Objectively the "truth" is that we don't know exactly what the problem is. There's also the possibility that the solution is complex and expensive enough that when proposed to the higher ups gets a resounding "NO". It's most definitely solvable, but if that solution requires a rework of a core system along the lines of 1.0-2.0s level, I wouldn't ever count on seeing it.

I'm not going to say they're infallibly correct in all decisions but the argument that someone just decided it was arbitrarily going to be a poor customer experience and an entire team went along with it is a bit weak.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Unless you're actually working on FFXIV I'm dubious as to whether it would be this simple or easy. The people who upgrade and maintain these systems aren't unintelligent, why wouldn't they pick something that was easy? Why would they quote server strain when the thousands upon thousands of people who do this kind of work could easily call them out on it? Just cause they don't want to do the work? Because they WANT to frustrate people?

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I did say it was an ego thing. They believe it should be controlled in some manner.

For example. When you run a dungeon that drops a key to a door. Why does it ask you if you wish to pick it up? Is there any reason to leave it on the ground? Nope (and in many dungeons it doesn't ask, but in some it does). Or to open the door/barrier in the various Garlean dungeons.. is there any reason to leave those doors closed? Well if you do you cannot continue forward. But they still ask.

At the vary least why not simply open the door without the dialogue, or better yet open when the last NPC is defeated in the room. Someone made a conscious decision to do it that way.. because 'reasons'. Same thing here. You MUST got to a glamour dresser because... just because. You can only store so many items, because.. reasons.

This is why there is so much emphasis on 'soft skills' in coding courses in colleges. These coders are socially inept in many cases where they can't adequately convey the reasoning or understand certain Quality of Life changes. Couple this with the language barrier we have and this is why we get clunky systems that don't make much sense.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

I did say it was an ego thing. They believe it should be controlled in some manner.

For example. When you run a dungeon that drops a key to a door. Why does it ask you if you wish to pick it up? Is there any reason to leave it on the ground? Nope (and in many dungeons it doesn't ask, but in some it does). Or to open the door/barrier in the various Garlean dungeons.. is there any reason to leave those doors closed? Well if you do you cannot continue forward. But they still ask.

At the vary least why not simply open the door without the dialogue, or better yet open when the last NPC is defeated in the room. Someone made a conscious decision to do it that way.. because 'reasons'. Same thing here. You MUST got to a glamour dresser because... just because. You can only store so many items, because.. reasons.

This is why there is so much emphasis on 'soft skills' in coding courses in colleges. These coders are socially inept in many cases where they can't adequately convey the reasoning or understand certain Quality of Life changes. Couple this with the language barrier we have and this is why we get clunky systems that don't make much sense.

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I think there's one door that doesn't follow that convention. Stone Vigil? Not sure. But there's definitely exactly ONE dungeon door that doesn't ask if you really want to continue with the dungeon.

Yeah, is there a reason that dialog box exists? There's only one door (Dusk Vigil) that I can think of that has an immediate consequence connected to opening it. There's a trash pack right behind it that'll aggro whoever opens the door. So that one ok.. I guess.. but most of the time it's just "Would you prefer to stand here and waste your time, or would you like to continue with the dungeon?"

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Someone made a conscious decision to do it that way.. because 'reasons'. Same thing here. You MUST got to a glamour dresser because... just because. You can only store so many items, because.. reasons.

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Or you must go to a glamour dresser because it being hosted in very limited instances is a way to limit cross traffic between the character server and the item server, and you can only store so many items because any more may cause congestion. Those are possible reasons. Generally things like that aren't just "well cause you gotta".

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Or you must go to a glamour dresser because it being hosted in very limited instances is a way to limit cross traffic between the character server and the item server, and you can only store so many items because any more may cause congestion. Those are possible reasons. Generally things like that aren't just "well cause you gotta".

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Those few dozen bytes are gonna lag up the server. You realize the text in your response caused more strain then the suggestion right?

I'd love it even if they just allowed us to do it in any sanctuary. I like to keep my glamour up to date for cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Those few dozen bytes are gonna lag up the server. You realize the text in your response caused more strain then the suggestion right?

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That's assuming it works how you think it works. True it should just be 3 or 4 flags with appearance, color, maybe a few more for durability, soulbinding and such, But knowing this and understanding this information yet having the devs themselves stating data bandwidth being a concern, the only way your explanation works is if they are outright lying to us about everything. While that's a possibility of course as no company is beyond suspicion, WHY would they go with such an outlandish explanation then?